Age old question: machine or free weights

[jwcarlton]

I've been bench pressing most of my adult life, with breaks here and there. At my peak, I could bench 375x4 (5 or 6 years ago, I guess), but thanks to numerous physical problems (something tore in my shoulder, I developed a "click" in my shoulder, and had a terrible nerve pain in the palm of my hand, right where the bar rested) I had to take an extended period off (resorting to calisthenics). When I came back, my bench was down to 5x5 @ 245. Still good for someone my height and weight, but nothing like before.

I haven't maxed for fear of aggravating my tricky shoulder, but I'd estimate it at around 285.

The odd thing is that I haven't been able to break that plateau for months! And that last set is just as hard today as it was 4 months ago. I'm not used to that.

Yesterday, for the first time in about 10 years, I went to the local gym and tried the "Chest Press" machine. It's basically the same concept as the bench, except that you're sitting up. I was just goofing off, really, but could easily lift 300 x 5 (the machine only went up to 300, or I would have tried more).

So now, I have a real question: would using the Chest Press with heavier weight lead to greater bulk? Or is it too much of an isolation exercise, making a lower weight on a free weight bench better as a compound exercise?

(If the bench is that much better, I'll probably switch to an 8/6/4 instead of 5x5)

TIA!

[shadowbobo8028]

I think free weights are always the best option, but if you have some kind of injury you may want to opt for machines. Phil heath hardly uses free weights for chest any more.

[Stalldad]

Its comparing apples to oranges. "300 lbs" on a chest press machine is not equivalent to 300 lbs bench press with free weights. Nothing wrong with using a machine, but don't assume that it will lead to more gains because you are using more "lbs"

[ironwill2008]

I've been bench pressing most of my adult life, with breaks here and there. At my peak, I could bench 375x4 (5 or 6 years ago, I guess), but thanks to numerous physical problems (something tore in my shoulder, I developed a "click" in my shoulder, and had a terrible nerve pain in the palm of my hand, right where the bar rested) I had to take an extended period off (resorting to calisthenics). When I came back, my bench was down to 5x5 @ 245. Still good for someone my height and weight, but nothing like before.

I haven't maxed for fear of aggravating my tricky shoulder, but I'd estimate it at around 285.

The odd thing is that I haven't been able to break that plateau for months! And that last set is just as hard today as it was 4 months ago. I'm not used to that.

Yesterday, for the first time in about 10 years, I went to the local gym and tried the "Chest Press" machine. It's basically the same concept as the bench, except that you're sitting up. I was just goofing off, really, but could easily lift 300 x 5 (the machine only went up to 300, or I would have tried more).

So now, I have a real question: would using the Chest Press with heavier weight lead to greater bulk? Or is it too much of an isolation exercise, making a lower weight on a free weight bench better as a compound exercise?

(If the bench is that much better, I'll probably switch to an 8/6/4 instead of 5x5)

TIA!

What, exactly, is your goal here?

Is it to bench a certain amount of weight, or is it to build a good-looking chest?

[jwcarlton]

What, exactly, is your goal here?

Is it to bench a certain amount of weight, or is it to build a good-looking chest?

Nah, benching is just a means to an end for me. I don't have any lifting friends to compete with, and my friends in general couldn't care less how much I lift. My goal is overall bulk, so I'm perfectly willing to switch to a machine if it's going to help me reach my goal better.

[Violander]

Nah, benching is just a means to an end for me. I don't have any lifting friends to compete with, and my friends in general couldn't care less how much I lift. My goal is overall bulk, so I'm perfectly willing to switch to a machine if it's going to help me reach my goal better.

As the other guy said, you really can't say that 300lbs on machine is more than 300lbs on BB BP. The weights are not comparable.
I don't think that switching to a machine will help you bulk any better and as a general rule I try to avoid machines. It's not an isolation exercise, but it is one that recruits lets muscles (you don't have to stabilize the weight etc etc)

As for your goals, if bulking is your concern, you reall dont need to max out for your bench. Stay in the 8-12 rep range and don't go close to your 1RM.
Or switch to Dumbbell Benchpress altogether and add some isolation in the form on flies.

[BloodySalad]

I like free weights for compound movements and machines for isolations.

I can't see too much point in continually using a machine for compounds when the goal is to activate as much muscle as possible. Free weights are superior in that respect.
Like-wise with isolations - I'm only looking to hit a specific muscle in a specific way. Machines win out in that department.

That's not to say that's set in stone. Occasionally, swapping round doesn't hurt.

[jwcarlton]

You guys are pretty much all saying the same thing I thought was true, so... cool. For the sake of shaking things up, I might do my bench first, then go to the chest press for a second exercise.

As for your goals, if bulking is your concern, you reall dont need to max out for your bench. Stay in the 8-12 rep range and don't go close to your 1RM.
Or switch to Dumbbell Benchpress altogether and add some isolation in the form on flies.

This hasn't really worked for me in the past, but I'm 38 now and things seem to be changing on me. In the past, I would do 3x8 and actually lose mass! And if I do more than 12 reps, I tend to aggravate my shoulder. That's why I switched to 5x5; heavier weight, but in the end I'm still doing more reps.

I figured that I might switch to 8/6/4 for awhile to see if I can break this plateau.

My regular chest and shoulder day starts with heavy bench, followed by dumbbell flies, then military press and, if I have enough juice left in the tank, Arnold press. If I do more than that, I tend to lose mass. I could replace the flies with chest press, though; my dumbbells at home only go up to 52.5 lbs each, and that's not enough; I could do 3x20 if I wanted, but I stop at 3x12 to prevent overworking the bum shoulder.

[JuiceMane01]

Use a mixture of both start with a barbell compound then move onto DB's and or machines if you want more so to use a higher rep range 8-20, this might be complete bro science but I think machines are less taxing on your body and easier to recover from. I personally do my squat/bench/deadlift with a bar as a massive skill component is involved and I want to compete in powerlifting but use machines to just bang out quick high reps to try and promote a bit more hypertrophy

[Violander]

If heavy weight is better for your joints, that's fine, stick to them. (Although I must say, 90% of the people that I know that have joint or shoudler issues - have them come out on heavy weights) Logically, light weights are better for that, but nevermind.

But saying 8-12 rep "loses mass" for you is a little stupid. If you're losing mass on them, then you're either going far too light or doing something else wrong.
At the end of the day - I don't think there is any physical way of losing mass if you're applying progressive overload at a good % of your 1RM and eating at a surplus. If you are - then some other aspect of your training or nutrition is off-track

[Gxp23]

Incorporate both and see what works best for you, go from there.

[hmmmm16417]

I personally like free weights for the simple fact that it technically takes more muscles to keep the weight in a specific line - maintains your form. Whereas machines keep the form for you and you just push like heck to move the weight without learning the proper form.\

in my opinion, machines are good for guys that want to push the envelope on the amount of weight without a spotter present. (ex: smith machine for bench press) -or- to limit your motion due to an injury.....but if you are injured, you should rest that area until it is better.

[ironwill2008]

Nah, benching is just a means to an end for me. I don't have any lifting friends to compete with, and my friends in general couldn't care less how much I lift. My goal is overall bulk, so I'm perfectly willing to switch to a machine if it's going to help me reach my goal better.

In that case, use everything that's available to you. Generally, the better-use of machine training comes after some heavy free-weight work, where it's a safe as well as convenient method to further-fatigue the target muscle(s) with some selected machine work.



While it's true that some pro bodybuilders use machines exclusively for chest work, they're not a valid example for the rest of us. These guys have already been down the free-weight road, and have settled, by experience, on their own best methods to suit their own requirements and body mechanics.

[JohnMariettePT]

I've been bench pressing most of my adult life, with breaks here and there. At my peak, I could bench 375x4 (5 or 6 years ago, I guess), but thanks to numerous physical problems (something tore in my shoulder, I developed a "click" in my shoulder, and had a terrible nerve pain in the palm of my hand, right where the bar rested) I had to take an extended period off (resorting to calisthenics). When I came back, my bench was down to 5x5 @ 245. Still good for someone my height and weight, but nothing like before.

I haven't maxed for fear of aggravating my tricky shoulder, but I'd estimate it at around 285.

The odd thing is that I haven't been able to break that plateau for months! And that last set is just as hard today as it was 4 months ago. I'm not used to that.

Yesterday, for the first time in about 10 years, I went to the local gym and tried the "Chest Press" machine. It's basically the same concept as the bench, except that you're sitting up. I was just goofing off, really, but could easily lift 300 x 5 (the machine only went up to 300, or I would have tried more).

So now, I have a real question: would using the Chest Press with heavier weight lead to greater bulk? Or is it too much of an isolation exercise, making a lower weight on a free weight bench better as a compound exercise?

(If the bench is that much better, I'll probably switch to an 8/6/4 instead of 5x5)

TIA!

Benching 375 for reps at 165 lbs is pretty damn impressive.

[kanis999]

Whichever beats up your muscles the most and your joints the least. I think this varies from person to person and from muscle group to muscle group.