Guys dying "young"

[Juggertha]

This was brought up in some other threads, but maybe best to bring it over here - when we see a relatively young BBer die, almost always there's conjecture about why. Was it from too many bicycle rides? Too heavy a weight? Genetic factors?

I'd also like to add another - partying. MANY of the big guys I knew, especially the old school lifters, combined gym life, with club life. The same guys that sold bicycles, also sold... um, other things to ride (couldn't think of a good analogy).

So out of respect to the individuals who have passed this year, maybe this thread could be a good place to talk about the generalities of it all?

[Juggertha]

I had a bud pass this year. Was out for a run, and dropped right there. EMS was not able to bring him back. Was a big dude all his life. Played college ball, and later in life got into triathlons.

Yet he still passed before he hit 40.

In his case, I'd put money on genetic factors.

[Old-Time-Lifter]

I still think it's a combination of things. And we certainly can't cut genetics out of the mix. Like your friend sad to say many bigger guys are just genetically predisposed to die young.

[steffo99]

I had a bud pass this year. Was out for a run, and dropped right there. EMS was not able to bring him back. Was a big dude all his life. Played college ball, and later in life got into triathlons.

Yet he still passed before he hit 40.

In his case, I'd put money on genetic factors.

Sorry to hear about your friend.

I suppose some just ate vast quantities of candy and it was bound to have consequences. In other cases eating candy is probably just an easy thing to point at but probably
wasn't related to the incident at all. Don't think we can do much more than speculate.

[GuyJin]

There are always underlying factors. Genetics for heart disease, cancer, leukemia...you can't fight the risk factor even with perfect dietary habits and not smoking or drinking. Jack Lalanne lived into his nineties and was a tough man to the end. What he did was legendary. Yet, his brother also lived into his nineties and never did any serious exercise outside of playing golf and walking around. Go figure.

Then there are the guys who are naturally muscular yet seemingly die young. I can't remember the name of the gene variant--Jerry Brainum wrote about it once in IRONMAN magazine--but it seems guys like this often are predisposed to heart disease. Why? Genetics again.

Of course you have the recent spate of bodybuilders and pro wrestlers buying it relatively young. While this may be genetics, you mentioned the drug use ('roids as well as recreational drugs) drinking, not eating properly, smoking and stress...all of these factors play a role. So when it's inquest time, there's no way to point a finger and say "AHA, it was the _____ that killed him."

I'd also add the mindset. It's been mentioned before, but it's worth mentioning again. A lot of these guys know and don't care, don't think it will happen to them, and are probably risk takers in other areas of their lives.

If you go on YouTube, you'll see an interview with Roddy Piper about pro wrestlers dying young. It's very eye-opening, and not what I expected. Worth the watch.

[Karl_Hungus]

I still think it's a combination of things. And we certainly can't cut genetics out of the mix. Like your friend sad to say many bigger guys are just genetically predisposed to die young.

^^ This. Unless you are exceptionally tall, it is not healthy to allow your body weight to climb into the 300's ... whether that be fat or muscle. Very high chronic blood pressure is a killer, whether that be from carrying around 300 lbs of flesh, an assortment of drugs, or bad diet.

[Juggertha]

I still think it's a combination of things. And we certainly can't cut genetics out of the mix. Like your friend sad to say many bigger guys are just genetically predisposed to die young.

I hate to bring up this example, but it quickly comes to mind - big dogs don't live as long as smaller dogs (usually).

[steffo99]

I hate to bring up this example, but it quickly comes to mind - big dogs don't live as long as smaller dogs (usually).

But the biggest animals on earth live the longest though.

[Old-Time-Lifter]

But the biggest animals on earth live the longest though.

Really?

The oldest animal known of was a mollusk.... not very big. And the comment about dogs is more to the point. All dogs belong to the same species and within that species the smallest dogs do live the longest. Chihuahuas are the longest lived and pretty much the littlest as well.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/geekquin...161321561.html

[steffo99]

Really?

The oldest animal known of was a mollusk.... not very big. And the comment about dogs is more to the point. All dogs belong to the same species and within that species the smallest dogs do live the longest. Chihuahuas are the longest lived and pretty much the littlest as well.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/geekquin...161321561.html

Grats on your googling skill , well done mate - was refering to whales and mammals some of which get to over 200. But if you feel better comparing yourself to a mollusk, go ahead.

[Karl_Hungus]

The oldest animal known of was a mollusk.... not very big. And the comment about dogs is more to the point. All dogs belong to the same species and within that species the smallest dogs do live the longest. Chihuahuas are the longest lived and pretty much the littlest as well.

But there are genetic differences between the dog breeds other than just size. I don't think a naturally bigger guy is genetically predisposed to dying younger than a smaller guy ... but if that guy (through diet and other means) allows his weight to greatly exceed healthy parameters, he might not reach his maximum potential lifespan.

[Old-Time-Lifter]

Grats on your googling skill , well done mate - was refering to whales and mammals some of which get to over 200. But if you feel better comparing yourself to a mollusk, go ahead.

Did not google it, I already knew about the story.

Bottom line is mollusks are the oldest living animals that we know of.

[Old-Time-Lifter]

But there are genetic differences between the dog breeds other than just size. I don't think a naturally bigger guy is genetically predisposed to dying younger than a smaller guy ... but if that guy (through diet and other means) allows his weight to greatly exceed healthy parameters, he might not reach his maximum potential lifespan.

Very much true about the dogs, but I don't know of a large breed that lives as long as the small breeds do in general.

Big people will generally have higher blood pressure and require their heart to work harder. I remember once reading that a pound of body weight required a mile of capillaries to support. Big difference on the strain of the heart to pump blood through a 150 lb body as opposed to a 300 lb body.

[David Wiggins]

I hate to bring up this example, but it quickly comes to mind - big dogs don't live as long as smaller dogs (usually).

Appropriate, IMO. I guess I kinda helped get this going, so I'll chip in. I agree with most above posts relating to genes, PEDs, rec. drugs, nutrition, lifestyle, etc.
I don't usually give long post. This may be. I hope I don't cross a boundary. I started lifting 30 years ago and weighed 260 w/ 20+% BF. I wanted to be bigger and stronger and leaner. Learned how to train & eat. Years later, I decided to "go to the candy store". I did so for 8 - 10 years. I was careful, thought I was smart, and had an experienced support group to help me. During that time I gained 60+pounds of lean mass. It was NEVER enough.
In my late 30s, I walked away from lifting and Highland Games. My body was tired, I had a family, and a business that needed me. But mostly I had a heart episode..... My heart walls had become coarse and stiff due to the "candy", and the extreme long term training. I had a heart module spasm on my sons 4th birthday. Doc told me it was what Sigmarrson died from. Some today call it athletes heart. I tell you this out of embarrassment due to my youthful ignorance. NOT ONCE DID I THINK ABOUT LONG TERM. NOT ONCE DID I THINK IT WOULD SHORTEN MY LIFE. NOT ONCE DID I CONSIDER MY FAMILIES HEART DISEASE HISTORY (Dad & grandma dead @ 52, grandad @ 59). Only in heart distress did I consider others and my future.I took 8 years or so off from lifting.
Fast forward 14 years after heart episode. Little did I know that my natural BW had climbed due to the supplement regimen I had been on. 300 lbs - not lifting or supplementing, and eating healthy. BW climbs with even MODEST lifting. Thank GOD, no heart issues. BUT it would take an EXTREME BB diet to get me under 300 while lifting.
Don't get me wrong. I am happy with my immediate training and body. BUT even I know the precursors I have and instituted may shorten my life. Wife and I have talked about hanging up PL and dropping 50 lbs. I will make that decision in a few months. Would I do it all over again? Would I eat 8-10K calories again and take candy? The 53 year old me says no... But how do you get young adults and teens to understand that mindset?

I hope this helps SOMEONE.

[Karl_Hungus]

Very much true about the dogs, but I don't know of a large breed that lives as long as the small breeds do in general.

Big people will generally have higher blood pressure and require their heart to work harder. I remember once reading that a pound of body weight required a mile of capillaries to support. Big difference on the strain of the heart to pump blood through a 150 lb body as opposed to a 300 lb body.

True, but a better comparison might be a guy at 5'6" weighing 150 lbs vs a 6'5" guy weighing 250 lbs. I'm not sure you'd find much of a difference in lifespan. Where it becomes an issue IMO, is when one is carrying an excessive amount of mass for their frame (which pro bodybuilders do).

[Old-Time-Lifter]

True, but a better comparison might be a guy at 5'6" weighing 150 lbs vs a 6'5" guy weighing 250 lbs. I'm not sure you'd find much of a difference in lifespan. Where it becomes an issue IMO, is when one is carrying an excessive amount of mass for their frame (which pro bodybuilders do).

That's still 100 miles more of blood vessels to keep going.]

I think it would be an interesting study to see if there is any correlation. I wonder if such a study has ever been done?

And David Wiggins thanks for your post and I hope it does help someone. God Bless.

[David Wiggins]

That's still 100 miles more of blood vessels to keep going.]

And David Wiggins thanks for your post and I hope it does help someone. God Bless.

Thanks OTL! I am sure I am not the only one that made these decisions without thinking you will carry that extra weight the rest of your life.

I asked my wife a serious question when we talked about marriage in regards to size and age (she is 13 years my junior) - "Have you ever seen a 300 lbs, 6'5", 65 year old man? " At that time neither of us had. That is when I realized that SHE most likely would bury me.....

[Karl_Hungus]

That's still 100 miles more of blood vessels to keep going.]

I think it would be an interesting study to see if there is any correlation. I wonder if such a study has ever been done?

Yeah, but if everything is proportionally larger (including diameter of major blood vessels), than a larger frame can also move larger volumes of blood even when pressure is held constant. I agree though, it would be an interesting study.

[Karl_Hungus]

"Have you ever seen a 300 lbs, 6'5", 65 year old man? "

My stepdad is 70. He is 6'6" and weighs around 300.

[Old-Time-Lifter]

Thanks OTL! I am sure I am not the only one that made these decisions without thinking you will carry that extra weight the rest of your life.

I asked my wife a serious question when we talked about marriage in regards to size and age (she is 13 years my junior) - "Have you ever seen a 300 lbs, 6'5", 65 year old man? " At that time neither of us had. That is when I realized that SHE most likely would bury me.....

Well the sad reality is even if you weighed 180 lbs her being 13 years younger almost guarantees she'll outlive you. Women catch all the breaks when it comes to longevity.

My wife is a couple years older than me and has a history of heart problems in her family (she's been on blood pressure meds since she was 21) but even there it'll likely be a horse race as to who lives the longest. I do have more 90 plus folks on my side of the family and our mothers are the same age but my mom is in perfect health and hers is very fragile and an invalid for all practical purposes. Her Dad died at 71 and mine died at 89.

Again God bless you and remember it's not the length of your life but the impact you've had during your life that matters the most.

[Get-n-fit]

I didn't read all the replies so apologies if this has been said. I think it boils down to polluting your body with a sh*t ton of toxic items. The body can only handle so much before it gives out.

[theKurp]

I think it would be an interesting study to see if there is any correlation. I wonder if such a study has ever been done?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1600586

Bull World Health Organ. 1992;70(2):259-67.
Impact of height and weight on life span.
Samaras TT, Storms LH.
Source
Department of Psychiatry, University of California, San Diego.
Abstract
The study was conducted to evaluate one aspect of the entropy theory of aging, which hypothesizes that aging is the result of increasing disorder within the body, and which predicts that increasing mass lowers life span. The first evaluation of the impact of human size on longevity or life span in 1978, which was based on data for decreased groups of athletes and famous people in the USA, suggested that shorter, lighter men live longer than their taller, heavier counterparts. In 1990, a study of 1679 decreased men and women from the general American population supported these findings. In the present study data on the height, weight, and age at death of 373 men were obtained from records at the Veterans Administration Medical Center, San Diego, CA, USA. Men of height 175.3 cm or less lived an average of 4.95 years longer than those of height over 175.3 cm, while men of height 170.2 cm or less lived 7.46 years longer than those of at least 182.9 cm. An analysis by weight difference revealed a 7.72-year greater longevity for men of weight 63.6 kg or less compared with those of 90.9 kg or more. This corroborates earlier evidence and contradicts the popular notion that taller people are healthier. While short stature due to malnutrition or illness is undesirable, our study suggests that feeding children for maximum growth and physical development may not add to and may indeed be harmful to their long-term health and longevity.

[x-trainer ben]

This was brought up in some other threads, but maybe best to bring it over here - when we see a relatively young BBer die, almost always there's conjecture about why. Was it from too many bicycle rides? Too heavy a weight? Genetic factors?

I'd also like to add another - partying. MANY of the big guys I knew, especially the old school lifters, combined gym life, with club life. The same guys that sold bicycles, also sold... um, other things to ride (couldn't think of a good analogy).

So out of respect to the individuals who have passed this year, maybe this thread could be a good place to talk about the generalities of it all?

If a person has genetic factors then cycling and getting up to 300 only magnifies the issues. "Hemmroids" also enlarge the heart( its a muscle) and we have no clue how " recreational partying" adds to the mix. If your willing to try 1 you may as well be willing to try other things, right?

I do know that as most of us chase mass... my Dad's cardiologist told me something that stuck with me.... The heart has to pump harder/work harder when your 250 whether it is a muscular 250 or a fat 250. In other words being smaller is a win/win for the heart in that particular docs opinion.

[Old-Time-Lifter]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1600586

Very interesting. Apparently the dog analogy is spot on.

[ArchAngel'73]

1st off, an excellent post by Dave Wiggins!- not enough reps for that one



Been around the bb'ing world long enough and have seen way too many guys pass on before their prime and heart issues are a common theme.
As mentioned, the bicycle rides, the super heavy lifting, and carrying a much higher weight than many are the 3 main denominators.
For some fresh off the stage it's the diuretic use that causes their death.

Lettuce not forget our good friend Gh, old and new school, old school was taken from cadavers and whatever disease the cadaver may have had of the brain passes onto the recipient of the Gh.
-this is how Lyle Alzado died
Current synthetic Gh avoids that problem but the problem here is Gh causes cells to grow, even cancerous ones and may propel any genetic illnesses forward faster than if one was not to take Gh.
-this is how Dennis Neuman got leukemia

Then we gotz a few other hormonal PEDS that can permanently damage ones endocrine system and one that can send you into a coma or death in no time flat.

I haven't even mentioned the stims and fat burners.



TBH, I'm surprised some of them live as long as they do.


On the other hand, I've warded off diabetes and genetic heart problems for years being a natty trainer/bb'er.
By taking matters into my own hands I will thankfully live longer than my father and stave off many of my family's illnesses for a decade or 2.
We are not at the mercy of our genetic code imo .

[DocHoss]

Appropriate, IMO. I guess I kinda helped get this going, so I'll chip in. I agree with most above posts relating to genes, PEDs, rec. drugs, nutrition, lifestyle, etc.
I don't usually give long post. This may be.

I hope this helps SOMEONE.

Thank you for your honesty - I hope your damage was not long lasting and that you have a good long life for your family. I can see the attraction both for the skinny guy who struggles to gain any muscle at all and the genetically blessed who sees that as the means to success. Sadly, the immortality mindset runs strong in young men.

[QUOTE=Old-Time-Lifter;1168924933]Well the sad reality is even if you weighed 180 lbs her being 13 years younger almost guarantees she'll outlive you. Women catch all the breaks when it comes to longevity.

remember it's not the length of your life but the impact you've had during your life that matters the most.

But I'd rather live long (and healthily) with impact than short with impact.

[Phattso]

I'd also like to add another - partying. MANY of the big guys I knew, especially the old school lifters, combined gym life, with club life. The same guys that sold bicycles, also sold... um, other things to ride (couldn't think of a good analogy).

Agreed. Besides genetic factors, the partying or "other" drugs, alcohol abuse can dramatically increase risk. PEDs are automatically blamed by many because other abuses are not known.

Many pro wrestlers have died because they are on the road most of the time and live out of hotels. Alcohol and other drugs are prevalant.

[Karl_Hungus]

Very interesting. Apparently the dog analogy is spot on.

Actually, the analogy is still flawed because there are genetic differences between dog breeds other than just size. A better analogy would be a large dog vs. a small dog of the same breed. I agree the study is interesting, but of course, it is a correlational study (by necessity), so we don't know whether it is size per se that results in slight differences in average lifespan, or whether it is other factors related to size (e.g. do taller/heavier people engage in more risky behavior? etc.).

[Flounderbout]

Actually, the analogy is still flawed because there are genetic differences between dog breeds other than just size. A better analogy would be a large dog vs. a small dog of the same breed.

Exactly - large breed dogs do have much shorter life spans than small dogs, but nearly all large breed dogs result from narrow breeding programs specifically designed to increase size, which result in a poor gene pool and various health issues. So most large breed dogs have joint problems and increased suceptibility to cancers etc (especially my dogs, Bernese Mountain Dogs ). As a result it becomes difficult to separate out problems resulting from size, and problems resulting from just a narrow genetic line (i.e. historic inbreeding).

[Old-Time-Lifter]

Exactly - large breed dogs do have much shorter life spans than small dogs, but nearly all large breed dogs result from narrow breeding programs specifically designed to increase size, which result in a poor gene pool and various health issues. So most large breed dogs have joint problems and increased suceptibility to cancers etc (especially my dogs, Bernese Mountain Dogs ). As a result it becomes difficult to separate out problems resulting from size, and problems resulting from just a narrow genetic line (i.e. historic inbreeding).

But the same can be said for small breeds. Every breed has it's own set of ailments and health problems due to selective breeding.