Soldier worship blinds us to the grim reality of war.

[PatrickDurden]

This was posted on reddit earlier and thought it should be seen by more people. This guy speaks the truth. My thread was closed in the misc for some odd reason so I figured r/p would be a better place for it.

"I'm not sure how to say these things delicately, so please bare with me. Soldier worship is a recruiting tool, first and foremost. The benefit there is obvious; you get impressionable young people to sign up to do something that, objectively, is a horrible idea most of the time. However, it's also a social tool. By social tool I mean that its powerful propaganda that instills certain ideas about war in the general citizenry. Roughly, it goes something like this: soldiers are honorable heros = what soldiers do is honorable = the military is honorable = war is honorable = otherwise unforgivable government action is unquestionable. That's obviously a really simplistic way of saying it, but that's the end result. It creates war apologists.

Most discussions about the ills of war will be shouted down as if you're slandering a religion. Anti-war and anti-imperialism were strong sentiments after Vietnam. The government obviously had a problem with that, but with the burgeoning information age, it was difficult to convince people that war was some how ok. Instead, they pick the smallest instrument of war, the soldier, build a hero myth and kick the propaganda into high gear.

The result is that they can still make unforgivable wars and people will largely support it at first, the ranks are staffed and in the end there are very few protests. You can even see people mentally grappling with this saying "I support the troops, but not the war". An interesting side effect of this is that some young men join the military believing the myth and eventually realize they're actually doing something horrible. It causes massive depression when it's far too late. And so you see soldier suicide rates skyrocket. In the end you just have to look at the VA to see that the government doesn't believe their own myth. Rest in peace 910 and James." -ThirtyEightSpecial

[bigdogfarmhand]

Fuk you

[IraHays]

Couldn't agree more.

Throw cop worship in there too.

[PatrickDurden]

Fuk you

Thank you for that well thought out reply. You replied within a minute so I see you've had plenty of time to actually read my post and think it over. /sarcasm

[IraHays]

Although I will say I see nothing wrong with Veterans Day. Probably not the best time for this post. But still totall agree.

[Spartan5364]

expected it to be *******ry since it's from reddit.

**** you

[bigdogfarmhand]

Thank you for that well thought out reply. You replied within a minute so I see you've had plenty of time to actually read my post and think it over. /sarcasm

Oh know what it says And my stance still is the same of... Fuk you and eat a Cawk.


This is some srs stupid shyt

[nutsy54]

Seems like a cop-out or scapegoat to avoiding blaming politicians for their decisions... Along with the voters who elected them.

[PatrickDurden]

expected it to be *******ry since it's from reddit.

**** you

Oh know what it says And my stance still is the same of... Fuk you and eat a Cawk.


This is some srs stupid shyt

I think you guys are lost, teen misc may be a better crowd for you.

[Spartan5364]

I think you guys are lost, teen misc may be a better crowd for you.

I think you are lost, reddit may be a better crowd for you.

[bigdogfarmhand]

I think you guys are lost, teen misc may be a better crowd for you.

I think ur bish azz should try to understand the thousands that died since the start of this country so my family and ur family could have a chance at the free life we deserve

It's easy to sit back and ponder the emotions of war.

If you have not served. Shut the Fuk up!

[IraHays]

I think ur bish azz should try to understand the thousands that died since the start of this country so my family and ur family could have a chance at the free life we deserve

It's easy to sit back and ponder the emotions of war.

If you have not served. Shut the Fuk up!

In reality there hasn't been a war where our freedom and way of life since WWII, and even that is a stretch. If our wars were just, we wouldn't need "soldier worship" as a recruiting tool. It would take care of itself.

[R0ck_S0lid]

Shut the f**k up lib


negged

[Spartacus777]

In reality there hasn't been a war where our freedom and way of life since WWII, and even that is a stretch. If our wars were just, we wouldn't need "soldier worship" as a recruiting tool. It would take care of itself.

This. I personally have several friends who just got out of boot camp for the Marines and their constantly posting stuff on FB about defending our freedom and serving justice and all that. Great group of guys besides, but the stuff they post and think about what they are meant to do is total nonsense. Since WWII all of our military operations have been interventionist campaigns to preserve American interest in different regions, not somehow protect our freedoms. How do you protect our freedom by invading Vietnam? Afghanistan? The later was even part of a broader "war on terror" that reduced our freedom, the exact opposite of what all these wars are supposedly about.

Of course trying to bring any of this up in a rational discussion with 95% of people is basically social suicide. Brb you hate our soldiers, you hate America, you're a terrible person, etc.

[GreatOldOne]

Soldiers are enacting the will of the people they represent. The respect is due to their sense of honor, duty, and self-sacrifice to society.

IMO the point of such a holiday/remembrance is to understand your personal responsibility as a member of society to advocate for or agitate against various causes and efforts we ask these people to die and kill for, and be respectful to them for taking up a position in society to do enact the will of the group despite personal risk.

[BFast55]

It is important for a society to venerate it's soldiers. Even if it may seem over the top at times. Better that than spitting on soldiers calling them baby killers, something liberals have been known to do. We hear this type of crap every veterans day from liberals. Of course they take exception with the idea of soldiers fighting for "freedom" because they have a very warped view about what freedom really is.

[BruceBruce325]

I think ur bish azz should try to understand the thousands that died since the start of this country so my family and ur family could have a chance at the free life we deserve

It's easy to sit back and ponder the emotions of war.

If you have not served. Shut the Fuk up!

a lot of this

too many people talking about war like they know something about it and have never served

[Truthbombing]

The sheep have interesting theories.

[ElMariachi]

LOL at picking Veteran's Day for this bull****, go eat a Costco-sized bag of dicks.

[Spartacus777]

Soldiers are enacting the will of the people they represent. The respect is due to their sense of honor, duty, and self-sacrifice to society.

IMO the point of such a holiday/remembrance is to understand your personal responsibility as a member of society to advocate for or agitate against various causes and efforts we ask these people to die and kill for, and be respectful to them for taking up a position in society to do enact the will of the group despite personal risk.

So why aren't the Nazi soldiers honored for their commitment and duty dumbass? Weren't they all just "enacting the will of the people"? Being a defender of freedom isn't about blindly following orders just because some authority or even the whole public approves of it. It's about standing up for what's right no matter what the personal cost. I have every sympathy for the men who died or were injured in unjust wars. It a great evil that they were forced lose their lives for the certain political gains of a few, and were told it was somehow for America our their people or whatever. It's all bullchit. But the real heroes are the ones who refused to serve in Vietnam, who speak out against the injustice being committed today. It's a really hard thing to oppose the United States Government and be publicly slandered as unpatriotic or a cowered, yet sadly these individuals have done more for freedom and the ideals of America than some soldier half a world away helping to support this or that regime.

If our soldiers just blindly follow orders, or the "will of the people", what makes them any different from the Nazi's?

Bring on the negs, the truth hurts sometimes. But someone has to say it.

From the Nazi Resistance monument in Germany, to the individuals who refused to listen to their commanding officers and the "will of the people" and died for it:

You did not bear the shame.

You resisted.

You bestowed the eternally vigilant symbol of change

by sacrificing your impassioned lives for freedom, justice and honor.

[BruceBruce325]

So why aren't the Nazi soldiers honored for their commitment and duty dumbass?

Genocide?

Just a guess.

[Anondragon2012]

This was posted on reddit earlier and thought it should be seen by more people. This guy speaks the truth. My thread was closed in the misc for some odd reason so I figured r/p would be a better place for it.

"I'm not sure how to say these things delicately, so please bare with me. Soldier worship is a recruiting tool, first and foremost. The benefit there is obvious; you get impressionable young people to sign up to do something that, objectively, is a horrible idea most of the time. However, it's also a social tool. By social tool I mean that its powerful propaganda that instills certain ideas about war in the general citizenry. Roughly, it goes something like this: soldiers are honorable heros = what soldiers do is honorable = the military is honorable = war is honorable = otherwise unforgivable government action is unquestionable. That's obviously a really simplistic way of saying it, but that's the end result. It creates war apologists.

Most discussions about the ills of war will be shouted down as if you're slandering a religion. Anti-war and anti-imperialism were strong sentiments after Vietnam. The government obviously had a problem with that, but with the burgeoning information age, it was difficult to convince people that war was some how ok. Instead, they pick the smallest instrument of war, the soldier, build a hero myth and kick the propaganda into high gear.

The result is that they can still make unforgivable wars and people will largely support it at first, the ranks are staffed and in the end there are very few protests. You can even see people mentally grappling with this saying "I support the troops, but not the war". An interesting side effect of this is that some young men join the military believing the myth and eventually realize they're actually doing something horrible. It causes massive depression when it's far too late. And so you see soldier suicide rates skyrocket. In the end you just have to look at the VA to see that the government doesn't believe their own myth. Rest in peace 910 and James." -ThirtyEightSpecial

R/P always welcomes any topics that involves politics and debate
Please come in...Make yourself comfortable

As to military recruiting in the USA... (didnt read article just commenting)
I would say that ever since WW2 the military-industrial complex has been on full roll to market war to impressionable people.
Then again I think its nowhere as bad as when US government was shipping the best of American Youth to die in Vietnam by the thousands.

Still, I do agree that there is an inherent evil in portraying war as a "cool" thing in recruiting.
I am 100% pro-military, but I think young minds can be very impressionable and get the wrong picture.

Also I would like to strongly condemn Hollywood for corrupting the minds aswell. Hollywood makes tons of War Movies, and even through Sci-Fi movies or other such films, they portray the military as being the "cool thing to do", it has a huge impression on young people.
For example when Top Gun was made, there is talk that people ran out of the movie theater to enlist in whichever branch they could.

Hollywood does more evil even than the recruiters IMO.
But War + Destruction = Big Movies for Hollywood = $$$

****ing evil

[Anondragon2012]

Genocide?

Just a guess.

Nah...
They just lost the war.

PS: Study a history book, there is a big difference between the German regular Army and the Nazi Party. It is true that German Army Vets have been having a hard time getting pensions and benefits from the German government, which is a damn injustice for people who fought for their country, regardless of the regime running it!

[ThoughtRiot]

Soldier worship is dead around me. Ya, people respect the service, but the military hasn't been in a "good war" since Korea or WWII and that's how people perceive it. What's there to worship when the older crowd's experience with the military is negative? The older people remember the the Vietnam War, where the government lied to us about the Gulf of Tonkin and sent tens of thousands of American men, their friends, to their death for nothing. The younger crowd has the Middle East, where we've sent thousands of US men and women to die for...well seemingly nothing again. And with Iraq, we were lied to...again.

[BruceBruce325]

Nah...
They just lost the war.

but who was war crimes?

generals are convicted of "war crimes" all the time in the UN.

[Spartacus777]

Nah...
They just lost the war.

PS: Study a history book, there is a big difference between the German regular Army and the Nazi Party. It is true that German Army Vets have been having a hard time getting pensions and benefits from the German government, which is a damn injustice for people who fought for their country, regardless of the regime running it!

Even when the soldiers invaded practically defenseless countries, seized private property, rendered millions poor and or homeless, slaughtered civilians, occupied foreign cities and populations for nothing more than self proclaimed power? But somehow it was honorable for them to be sheep and not question anything they were doing? I don't think the argument of "But I was just following orders!" worked well with those directly responsible for the Holocaust, and it shouldn't work anywhere else. You're glorifying blind obedience, and calling the idea of men acting like sheep honorable. What's honorable is standing for true justice and principles, even when those ideals are being attacked by your own government and people. That's a patriot, not someone who just unquestionably follows the orders of corrupt men.

Again, the true German heroes in WWII were the ones that opposed the German government and Nazi party, most of whom died for it.

[badreligion]

I'm really not sure how to feel about this ...It does raise a good point but like someone said all it does is take the spotlight off of the real people who cause wars...the politicians who decide to use force whether it is warented or not .

[whatisbro]

I view war no different than the sterotypical African american Hood Life
Brb kill people for a certain cause
Brb both sides take loses
Brb one persons win in another persons loss

Only difference is one is considered honorable by mainstream Amerka
Amirite?

[7rmr]

A lot of people in this thread missed the point. Not a huge surprise.

[BruceBruce325]

A lot of people in this thread missed the point. Not a huge surprise.

maybe enlightening people would be the best plan of action?

just an idea