Back thickness of peace

[Wzn]

Not really "Dwarfed" except maybe in the rear lat spread.

Anyways - he's still winning in those shots...due to dat conditioning

How do you win a pose when getting dwarfed?
He is outsized to the point where his sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiightly better condition doesnt matter.

[TTimmerman]

How do you win a pose when getting dwarfed?
He is outsized to the point where his sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiightly better condition doesnt matter.

no brah, stealth was there, your argument is invalid

[NathanCarrille]

no brah, stealth was there, your argument is invalid

LOL... I think it's funny how kai having a bunch more mass means sh!t while a slightly better condition on phil means "BOOM! THE CLEAR WINNER!".

[RoroCwalker]

Wolf+Heath>Coleman

inb4 hate.....

The person who is close to this at the moment is Cedric Mcmillan, he's tall, wide and has full muscle bellies, minus the calves. It's a shame that he's most likely never going to realize his potential.

I don't get what you mean by Wolf+Heath > Coleman

How do you win a pose when getting dwarfed?
He is outsized to the point where his sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiightly better condition doesnt matter.

It didn't matter much in Dallas, eh?

[spamy]

Essa has poor structure compared to the top guys.

Look at the top group - they all have great structure(minus Jay).

Essa has a great frame and I can't believe you said that about Jay.

[ResovoirDog]

Essa has a poor frame?
Hahahahahahahahahahah *breathes* hahahahahaha

[Groggery]

While I do agree with you, I don`t think a lot of other people here do
I m talking about the ones who negged once for saying something like "branch has the worst frame/muscle bellies in that top 10"

I was one of those and that statement is still worthy of a neg.

[NVious]

A: phil has the worst structure out of the top 10...
B: thanks for explaining me how physiques are judged

Not really, I mean ok he's obviously not wide, but neither is his waist.

Just because somebody is wide doesn't mean they have a great structure if you couple that with a wide waist.

The best structures on stage would probably be: 1.Ramy/Wolf with Cedric being VERY close to them. The rest of them aren't all that great in that they're usually coupling wide clavicles with wide waists or narrow clavicles with a narrow waist.

[RoroCwalker]

Not really, I mean ok he's obviously not wide, but neither is his waist.

Just because somebody is wide doesn't mean they have a great structure if you couple that with a wide waist.

The best structures on stage would probably be: 1.Ramy/Wolf with Cedric being VERY close to them. The rest of them aren't all that great in that they're usually coupling wide clavicles with wide waists or narrow clavicles with a narrow waist.

The problem comes when he gets exposed by the other competitors.

[Ikatsu]

lol you guys need to stop taking stealth so seriously. He doesn't know anything about bodybuilding

[TTimmerman]

Not really, I mean ok he's obviously not wide, but neither is his waist.

Just because somebody is wide doesn't mean they have a great structure if you couple that with a wide waist.

The best structures on stage would probably be: 1.Ramy/Wolf with Cedric being VERY close to them. The rest of them aren't all that great in that they're usually coupling wide clavicles with wide waists or narrow clavicles with a narrow waist.

seen his abs/thighs?

[stealth_swimmer]

Jay's structure is only surpassed by ramy and maybe wolf in that line up. His width has probably been his biggest strong point throughout his career.

Jay's waist is wide. Lots of people have better structure than him even if he's got overall width on people.

This is a forum, you can't expect things not to turn into discussions. The thread's topic is ''Back thickness of peace'', it is expected that someone would post something related to that or a comparison picture of whomever just to enrich the thread's content.



Essa has poor structure you say? I must disagree. He's wide, relatively small waist, good shoulders to quads ratio, I don't see where the problem is?


They all have great structure? You seem to be excluding Phil from the top 10.
Phil's structure is average, if not below average.

Yes, in each pose the entire body is juged, thus why Phil loses most poses to Kai. Kai's legs are on another level.

Phil's got good structure, but not the best of the top 5. He makes up for it with conditioning and super round muscle bellies along with size that holds its own against the big guys.


And Essa's conditioning didn't seem to be as good as in previous showings. As for Essa's structure - he looks good in that shot but totally loses to the top guys in the front double and back double.

[Groggery]

And Essa's conditioning didn't seem to be as good as in previous showings. As for Essa's structure - he looks good in that shot but totally loses to the top guys in the front double and back double.

Uhh mate, he loses because of the lack of muscle, not the structure. You alright lately?

[Unbiasedfan]

Jay's waist is wide.

Not structurally, as seen in the 01 vid or in his younger days. He has overdeveloped his oblique muscles over the years, making his waist look bigger.

Where would jay be without his amazing structure lol...

Very very few pro bodybuilders have a better structure than jay.

[NVious]

The problem comes when he gets exposed by the other competitors.

Sure he gets exposed, like ALL of them do. Cedric is probably the most complete one there as far as having great muscle maturity/flow/separation/size/aesthetics (no gut) and decent conditioning, but he gets no love. I would put Ramy up there, but he looks more like a blowup doll and obviously lacks maturity and the "look" of being polished that Cedric has.

seen his abs/thighs?

I wouldn't call that structure as much as I would call it muscle insertions.

His abs have gotten blurred in recent years, I'm sure you and I could postulate as to why.

His thighs are actually unreal as far as size and even separation goes, it's just Phil really does do some awkward poses (really accentuated when that guy made that dancing gif of his FLS) that cost him. IMO though on pure muscle insertions (not frame), he is EASILY top 3 of all time because he really lacks nothing, he even has fantastic calves.

If he had wide(r) clavicles, it wouldn't even be a contest, but all of them have flaws. What irks me is the lack of consistency for why one flaw matters more than others, i.e everyone harps on Wolf's dead calf, but WTF can he do about it? At the same time, Branch beat him at the AC with how many dead body parts?

If we just had consistency within the decisions and standards, it'd all be good.

[RoroCwalker]

And Essa's conditioning didn't seem to be as good as in previous showings. As for Essa's structure - he looks good in that shot but totally loses to the top guys in the front double and back double.

See spamy's post above you.

Sure he gets exposed, like ALL of them do. Cedric is probably the most complete one there as far as having great muscle maturity/flow/separation/size/aesthetics (no gut) and decent conditioning, but he gets no love. I would put Ramy up there, but he looks more like a blowup doll and obviously lacks maturity and the "look" of being polished that Cedric has.

All of them do, indeed. Although, not negatively. For example;

Phil is standing alone - Looks great, you don't notice the width too much.
Kai/Wolf is standing alone - Looks great, big, wide.

Now you put Phil next to Kai/Wolf - Wow, Kai/Wolf is wide as f*ck! or Wow, Phil is narrow as f*ck!

It goes only in one way even if you put it from 2 different perspectives.

[NVious]

See spamy's post above you.




All of them do, indeed. Although, not negatively. For example;

Phil is standing alone - Looks great, you don't notice the width too much.
Kai/Wolf is standing alone - Looks great, big, wide.

Now you put Phil next to Kai/Wolf - Wow, Kai/Wolf is wide as f*ck! or Wow, Phil is narrow as f*ck!

It goes only in one way even if you put it from 2 different perspectives.

Personally I do prefer Kai's physique over Phil, but he has muscularity flaws in the back thickness in the RLS/his traps/his delts and his triceps, whereas Phil is huge in all of those areas.

[RoroCwalker]

Personally I do prefer Kai's physique over Phil, but he has muscularity flaws in the back thickness in the RLS/his traps/his delts and his triceps, whereas Phil is huge in all of those areas.

That's your personal preference, I understand that, we're all looking at one picture but analysing it from so many different angles based on our own ideal of what that pose should look like/represent.

For my personal preference, I see that Phil lacks the back thickness Kai has in RLS because I'm focusing on the width and lats.
A strange way to put it would be as if Kai had a thick jet pack attached on his back, that's how thick it is, not to mention wide too.

[NVious]

That's your personal preference, I understand that, we're all looking at one picture but analysing it from so many different angles based on our own ideal.

For my personal preference, I see that Phil lacks the back thickness Kai has in RLS because I'm focusing on the width and lats.
A strange way to put it would be as if Kai had a thick jet pack attached on his back, that's how thick it is, not to mention wide.

What I personally focus on would be the detail of the lats and the thickness down the middle. Of course Heath is going to be narrower, I'm not sure if that's something you can knock him on since I don't even think it's anatomically possible to develop your lats wider than your clavicles.

In other shots, Kai definitely looks "thicker," but these aren't usually stage shots or at least of the mandatories, so it would beg the question of how much that should be judged. Just as much as how much should width be judged, how much should detail be judged and how much should each individual body parts be judged?

[JIGSAW]

This is the dumbest this i've read all day

[RoroCwalker]

What I personally focus on would be the detail of the lats and the thickness down the middle. Of course Heath is going to be narrower, I'm not sure if that's something you can knock him on since I don't even think it's anatomically possible to develop your lats wider than your clavicles.

In other shots, Kai definitely looks "thicker," but these aren't usually stage shots or at least of the mandatories, so it would beg the question of how much that should be judged. Just as much as how much should width be judged, how much should detail be judged and how much should each individual body parts be judged?

Unfortunately, as hard as it is, you have to deal with your genetics. A physique is a physique, regardless of what's been through it, it shouldn't go further on past this point. If him being narrow makes Kai look better, so be it.

The question is indeed, ''how much''. I guess it's impossible to measure. A more exaggerated example that started a sh*tstorm a while back.

The detail and flow Flex has or the thickness + detail Ronnie has.

The answer would come down to ''overwhelming''. Is ''x'' overwhelming ''y''. That would be the ''how much'' answer to the question, I believe.

Note: In no way am I saying that Flex's BDB is better Coleman.




Also, speaking about structure.

Probably one of the best structures in the IFBB atm.

[Groggery]

With Coleman it's hard to tell because he came in condition so often it's impossible to say what his back would look like thicker but less ripped. Ala Kai.

And please do not insinuate that the difference between Phil/Kai and Phil/Wolf is that great.

[RoroCwalker]

With Coleman it's hard to tell because he came in condition so often it's impossible to say what his back would look like thicker but less ripped. Ala Kai.

And please do not insinuate that the difference between Phil/Kai and Phil/Wolf is that great.

The difference in width/mass?

[JIGSAW]

Most of you chumps are Canadian or live in some bum phuck part of the country and have never been within 1,000 miles of an actual IFBB Pro Show......Let me tell you this and please believe me when I say it....I go to the Expo and the O show every year.....and when you see these guys on Stage, IN PERSON and not on your stupid little iphones and the Muscle Mags your Mom buys you when she goes to get you milk and cookies from the grocery store, you can see who the clear winner is. HEATH..he has it.....he's clearly the Champion. You need to go to a show to understand it...otherwise you'll never understand it fully.

[Groggery]

None of the current top 3 overwhelme each other. If you wanted that comparison to make more sense you could have tried to shop Coleman's conditioning on Wheeler and vice versa.

[RoroCwalker]

most of you chumps are Canadian or live in some bun phuck part of the country and have never been within 1,000 miles of an actual IFBB Pro Show......Let me tell you this and please believe me when I say it....I go to the Expo and the O show every year.....and when you see these guys on Stage, IN PERSON and not on your stupid little iphones and the Muscle Mags your Mom buys you when she goes to get you milk and cookies from the grocery store, you can see who the clear winner is. HEATH..he has it.....he's clearly the Champion. You need to go to a show to understand it...otherwise you'll never understand it fully.

His clavicles length double in real?

On a serious note, I have a yet to experience it and I have yet to know if this stands as a valid point because all you're saying is he was better in person and even if we debate on a picture or video, in the end, it'll come down to the same argument, which can't be counter by those who haven't been to the same show or have experienced the same.

None of the current top 3 overwhelme each other. If you wanted that comparison to make more sense you could have tried to shop Coleman's conditioning on Wheeler and vice versa.

To my eyes, Wolf and Kai are way, and I mean, way bigger and wider than Phil. The Coleman/Wheeler comparison wasn't to be taken literally, I'm trying to give an image to my point.

[JIGSAW]

His clavicles length double in real?

On a serious note, I have a yet to experience it and I have yet to know if this stands as a valid point because all you're saying is he was better in person and even if we debate on a picture or video, in the end, it'll come down to the same argument, which can't be counter by those who haven't been to the same show or have experienced the same.

Its called ILLUSION son..........go to a show before you talk like you have knowledge.

[Groggery]

To my eyes, Wolf and Kai are way, and I mean, way bigger and wider than Phil. The Coleman/Wheeler comparison wasn't to be taken literally, I'm trying to give an image to my point.

I'm gonna put this not so politely:

We don't give a **** about your eyes. None. Zip.
Nowhere in the OP did the guy claim Phil was better than Kai.
Nowhere did he signal he wanted a comparison, he simply said he'd show what impressed him the most.

Now read post #2 of this thread again and again until you realize why you gotta stop ****ing getting up in people's business when there's any chance that you'll pop up.

Top 3 are at a decent equilibrium right now. If you're going to argue that then just go to bed.

[RoroCwalker]

Its called ILLUSION son..........go to a show before you talk like you have knowledge.

Hence why I said ''I have yet to experience it.''

[JIGSAW]

His clavicles length double in real?

On a serious note, I have a yet to experience it and I have yet to know if this stands as a valid point because all you're saying is he was better in person and even if we debate on a picture or video, in the end, it'll come down to the same argument, which can't be counter by those who haven't been to the same show or have experienced the same.



To my eyes, Wolf and Kai are way, and I mean, way bigger and wider than Phil. The Coleman/Wheeler comparison wasn't to be taken literally, I'm trying to give an image to my point.

you mean from from the Magizines you buy at the store and the pictures on your laptop....not when you see in person, or what a JUDGE is looking at. Heath has won 3 titles, DESERVINGLY. You have to see it to understand it.