Milk - your views?

[Wakjak]

Hey guys!

Just wanted to open a little discussion about milk in a gym diet. I heard some people say "you should take it, its good for you" where as others say "cut it out don't take it at all for your gym diet"

What are your views on this?

[Sarahe215]

I agree with the person above completely. Everyone has different reasons for skipping regular milk whether it be the chemicals added, the way it's processed, calorie/fat content etc. I drink unsweetened almond milk in place of cow's milk mostly due to the tummy issues I get after consuming dairy.

[sy2502]

Casein and whey protein are made from milk. A diet rich in dairy products has been shown to decrease abdominal fat.
Other than that, do what you want, you don't HAVE to drink milk just like you don't HAVE to do anything. It's your choice.

[Miranda]

Pasteurization also destroys part of the vitamin C in raw milk, encourages the growth of harmful bacteria.
The pasteurization process also makes insoluble most of the calcium found in raw milk.

the bit about calcium is BS, and milk of any type doesn't contain much vitamin C in the first place. that is, milk isn't the main source of a person's vit C intake anyway (it contains plenty other vitamins, though). worrying about a single vitamin that you can acquire plenty of elsewhere is a bit pointless.

it's a bit simplistic to glorify raw milk over pasteurised milk. especially if its kept for longer, raw milk can be a significant source of pathogens (the bacteria pasteurisation destroys) and and cause outbreaks.

there's no need to fearmonger the evils of pasteurisation. you could as well argue that people shouldn't cook any of the food they eat because heating will reduce the nutrient content.

if you're concerned about hormones and animal welfare, buy organic milk.
if you can't tolerate dairy products, and/or don't want to consume them, don't consume them.

[amiaow]

x2.

Drink milk if you want to, don't drink it if you don't.

[sy2502]

Pasteurization also destroys part of the vitamin C in raw milk,

Since when do we drink milk for its vitamin C?

encourages the growth of harmful bacteria.

Funny, it actually kills bacteria.

The pasteurization process also makes insoluble most of the calcium found in raw milk.

Oh really? Please tell us all about it!

[kimm4]

I like my milk and use it daily.

[heidismommy]

Milk and other dairy products like protein powders, Greek yogurt, and cheese are my favorite ways to help meet my protein goals. So yes, I do drink it. My view is that if you like it and don't have intolerances to it, go for it. If you don't like it or are lactose intolerant, don't drink it.

[sy2502]

Anyone over age 3 probably doesn't need milk.

Nobody needs steak. Or chicken. Or tuna.

See where I am going here?

[Running2live]

There's a lot of debate about it and I've been trying to educate myself as well.

I use to drink a lot of milk - several cups of Whole Organic milk. I've cut back for personal issues related to Cystic Fibrosis (thick mucus) just to see if it will help, so far so good.

All things in moderation. Okay, maybe not all, but most.

[Miranda]

The fact is . . .

dude, if you want to present 'facts' post links to studies that support your claims. you sound like a copypasta from someone else's blog.

[sonti]

I don't know much about milk. As an English teacher, I do know that someone who wrote this:

wotever mate just trying to help

Probably didn't write this:

When pasteurized milk is also homogenized, a substance known as xanthine oxidase is created. This compound can play a role in oxidative stress by acting as a free radical in your body.

[schnauzers]

I don't know much about milk. As an English teacher, I do know that someone who wrote this:



Probably didn't write this:

Lol, you can Google that and it comes up over and over; so, definitely not original thought. Not that everyone has to post original thoughts but it's funny when people make other people's stuff seem like their own.

http://tudecidesmedia.com/health-nee...-p2642-128.htm

http://thedolcedietlivinglean.com/wh...y-in-your-milk

http://www.healthfaithlove.com/1/category/all/4.html

[Miranda]

Not that everyone has to post original thoughts but it's funny when people make other people's stuff seem like their own.

lol if people posted 'original thought' on these boards we'd all be weed-smoking hippies

as for the 'original' original thoughts, a lot of the anti-pasteurisation claims are exaggerated fearmongering, or plain BS. no-one's claiming pasteurisation does not lead to a slightly lower vitamin content in milk, but it doesn't 'destroy' or 'nuke' it, or render pasteurised milk nutritionally void.

people who refer to 'denaturing' proteins (lulz) or 'massive' losses of vitamin C (double lulz) or pasteurised milk as a possible cause for rickets (triple lulz) single out pasteurisation as a unique evil while disregarding that nutrient losses and changes in structures will occur whenever you heat food to cook it.

oh yeah, humans are the only species (!!!) that heats its food . . . perhaps that's the reason for our miserable demise

the train of thought implies that a single food should be the main nutritional source for a single vitamin (or else!!) is a bit naive. most whole (and many 'processed') foods will contain varying levels of vitamins and minerals, whilst some famously contain large amounts of X compared to others. so what? an overall balanced and varied diet is a much better insurance for adequate vitamin intake across the board as opposed to singularly staring at so-called 'superfoods'.

there's nothing terribly wrong with raw milk imo. i don't see what's so great about it, either. other than the self-inflated righteousness that comes with doing 'the right thing' of course. if you have an ideological bent against consuming pasteurised milk and are willing to take the contamination risk/shorter shelf life and increased cost that comes with it, good for you. i mean, who cares?

i do scratch my eyeballs though when an ideological bent crosses the line into black-and-white nutjob/conspiracy territory. there's no need to distort facts to demonise a common dietary staple to dig deeper into your own dearly held beliefs.

[sonti]

take it of leave it, the information is there from a credible source , everyone gets there information from somewhere, there is countless threads saying the same things all over the web and its almost common knowledge that milk has chems in and heat damage nutrients in food!
I hardly doubt your a scientist that's in at lab figuring out this stuff yourself, so 99% of what your says is read from somewhere else, you really think I have the time to write out something as detailed as that about milk!

There's nothing wrong with copying and pasting, we just prefer that you cite your "credible source". Lord knows that one some people consider a "credible source" may not actually be, so before we put any stock into what you write, care to share where you got the information from?

[sonti]

instead of trying to put people down why dont you come up with an argument against, so we can actually learn something and I can learn something!
sure no problem about posting the site though I cannot post links because I am new and you need over 50 post first I believe. so I have to chop it up. if anyone else has any info on milk please share

mercola. com /sites/

/us-government-data-proves-that-raw-milk-is-safe.aspx



hope that helps

Okay, fair enough. But sort of proves my point - do you know who Dr. Mercola is?

I could argue with my 4 year old about the existance of Santa, but it's a bit futile. FWIW, I actually live in a place where raw milk is legal and frequently consumed, but even here Mercola would be considered a quack.

[oregonchick76]

I grew up on a farm and my milk drinking habits will die hard. I drink at least 16 oz per day. Plus I eat a sh!t ton of greek yogurt, cheese, ice cream, etc.

[megdaig]

I drank a gallon of whole milk every three days throughout grade school and high school....I haven't keeled over in agonizing pain from a bacterial infection....


And the reason they give cows antibiotics is because they have been given growth hormone to produce about 10x the milk they naturally would that the excessive milking causes sores on their treets and udders. That's how the puss and antibiotics get into the milk.

If I could afford the liquid calories if drink milk every day. Can't wait to eat to grow again

[kneehighs]

People drink cow milk every day of their life and live perfectly long healthy lives.

However, that being said, I still do not drink it. I drink unsweetened almond milk. It is higher in calcium, a third of the calories per serving, it does not contain the hormones that cow milk has, and honestly? I think it tastes better. Yes, it does taste different than cow milk, but drink it for a month and you will be so used to it that cow milk will all taste sour to you and you will not even like it.

[sy2502]

the information is there from a credible source

No it isn't. You shouldn't believe every piece of crap you read online.



On a different note, I started to buy this instead of regular milk:

[superja]

Milk is awesome and I always look forward to bulking time so I can eat a crapton of full-fat dairy. Greek yogurt, cheese on errrything.


I know we're talking about cows, but the grocery store had whole goat milk on sale for next to free the other day so I was like, let's try this. Amaze. Never had it before, might become a staple.

[Artemisia510b]

Dairy I eat as much as possible: skim milk, fat-free greek yogurt, part-skim cheese, cottage cheese

Dairy I eat in moderation/as treat: Fat-free frozen yogurt, full-fat cheese, ice cream

Dairy I generally don't eat: Full-fat milk, 2% milk, non-greek yogurt, yogurt that has fat in it

[dreahere]

I know we're talking about cows, but the grocery store had whole goat milk on sale for next to free the other day so I was like, let's try this. Amaze. Never had it before, might become a staple.

I love goat cheese so much I would marry it, but I've never had goat milk. Now I'm wicked curious.

[SheDemon]

I love milk and all dairy. I used to live next to an organic raw dairy farm in Arizona and would go through a few gallons of that per week. Even pasteurized milk tastes great to me and makes me feel great. It coats my stomach when eating spices or coffee that can tear it up. I thrive on it, it's probably half the reason why I am so fat (indulgence) so I have to watch my intake now that I am dieting.

I know a lot of people that *do not* do well. In a human anatomy and physiology class I took, it appeared that some 70+% of adults in the world are lactose intolerant. Here's an article that says 75%: (oh I can't post links, pcrm site, article title:'Understanding Lactose Intolerance') That means your body does not produce lactase, the enzyme that digests milk sugar (lactose) into a useable form for your body. The lactose goes into your gut where bacteria feed on it and bloom causing painful gas etc.

If milk did that to me, I don't think I would like it nearly so much. Those lactaid tablets work, they are just lactase in a capsule. It might get tedious having to take them all the time. You can still enjoy yogurt or cheese since those products are cultured and contain little to no lactose.

I never drink skim milk. It is whole or nothing for me (and I grew up being served nonfat milk). I feel like skimmed milk or nonfat or 1% is a gimmick... it is not a health food. The company wants to make their profit twice -- all the good stuff is taken out and being sold as butter and ice cream and you are paying a high price for thin, crappy leftovers. Nonfat milk should be half the price of whole milk or less.

[Miranda]

some 70+% of adults in the world are lactose intolerant. Here's an article that says 75%: (oh I can't post links, pcrm site, article title:'Understanding Lactose Intolerance')

there's a difference between lactose intolerance, and lactose maldigestion, and milk allergies. that is, you can be lactose tolerant/maldigester, lactose intolerant/maldigester, or lactose tolerant across the board. (milk allergy is a different beast altogether.)

afaik, the prevalence of lactose intolerance worldwide is ~65%. lactase persistence is a genetic trait that varies across ethnicities (it's more common in northern europe, and parts of africa). geographically speaking, persistence has migrated out of europe, but since there's little mixing between ethnic groups worldwide, its spread across ethnicities is limited.

people who self-diagnose as lactose intolerant may actually be lactose tolerant maldigesters and contribute to the higher 75% figure. maldigesters who are lactose tolerant don't need to avoid milk or dairy products.

levels of self-reported 'milk intolerance' can be a lot higher than the actual prevalence. one factor that can increase self-reporting of 'intolerance' of any kind in the general population are fad diets that prohibit certain food groups (dairy, grains etc.). see a diet become popular and watch the numbers skyrocket. contrast that to something less trendy, like tree nut or shellfish allergy. you don't hear much about that.

If milk did that to me, I don't think I would like it nearly so much.

that train of thought seems to be part and parcel of human thinking apparently. wouldn't you want to go out of your way to indiscriminately tell everyone they should avoid milk because it had been nasty to you?

[SheDemon]

there's a difference between lactose intolerance, and lactose maldigestion, and milk allergies. that is, you can be lactose tolerant/maldigester, lactose intolerant/maldigester, or lactose tolerant across the board. (milk allergy is a different beast altogether.)

I'm not sure if it was all directed toward me or not, but I didn't mention milk allergies. I know many people who are lactose intolerant... which I see as no different than 'maldigestion' unless you're talking varying degrees of gas or the runs? They drink milk and have painful and/or embarrassing symptoms. Whereas someone like me can sit down and drink a whole gallon and feel wonderful (if a bit full ^_^)... but for the many many unfortunate people there is lactaid.

And yes, I really hate that milk is demonized in some health circles. It is a nutrient dense food and most especially good for children, the malnourished and people needing to gain weight.

[Miranda]

I'm not sure if it was all directed toward me or not, but I didn't mention milk allergies. I know many people who are lactose intolerant... which I see as no different than 'maldigestion' unless you're talking varying degrees of gas or the runs? They drink milk and have painful and/or embarrassing symptoms.

oh it wasn't directed 'at' you per se - it was just to point the possible fibs in the '75%' prevalence with added blab on milk allergy. determining actual levels of lactose intolerance when there's a lot more to it (some of it cultural/self-perceived) can be hard.

i see you on intolerance though. my dad was lactose intolerant, but i'm not (i might be a slight maldigester though). i don't see why i should demonise milk out of compassion for his troubles, or my rare burps with milk.

[SheDemon]

oh it wasn't directed 'at' you per se - it was just to point the possible fibs in the '75%' prevalence with added blab on milk allergy. determining actual levels of lactose intolerance when there's a lot more to it (some of it cultural/self-perceived) can be hard.

i see you on intolerance though. my dad was lactose intolerant, but i'm not (i might be a slight maldigester though). i don't see why i should demonise milk out of compassion for his troubles.

I would have posted a link for you, but my post count isn't high enough. The 75% is actually a conservative worldwide estimate. Some 93+% of Asian adults are truly lactose intolerant, in the upper 80% for native American/indigenous peoples of the Americas, 70 to 90% of Africans and those of mainly African descent, Mediterranean and Semitic peoples 60 to 80%... only Caucasian people as a rule have a relatively low percentile of lactose intolerance (in the 20s). So, if you do the math you will quickly see, that the worldwide figure in the 70s makes sense.

I was a biology major and been obsessed with all things dairy since I was a kid, but I double checked my information on a few different sites. I'm not sure how many posts I need to be able to link.

[sy2502]

oh it wasn't directed 'at' you per se - it was just to point the possible fibs in the '75%' prevalence with added blab on milk allergy. determining actual levels of lactose intolerance when there's a lot more to it (some of it cultural/self-perceived) can be hard.

i see you on intolerance though. my dad was lactose intolerant, but i'm not (i might be a slight maldigester though). i don't see why i should demonise milk out of compassion for his troubles, or my rare burps with milk.

Legumes give the the most horrible GI distress. I must have legume intolerance. Band legumes!

[Miranda]

I would have posted a link for you, but my post count isn't high enough. The 75% is actually a conservative worldwide estimate. Some 93+% of Asian adults are truly lactose intolerant, in the upper 80% for native American/indigenous peoples of the Americas, 70 to 90% of Africans and those of mainly African descent, Mediterranean and Semitic peoples 60 to 80%... only Caucasian people as a rule have a relatively low percentile of lactose intolerance (in the 20s). So, if you do the math you will quickly see, that the worldwide figure in the 70s makes sense.

depends on how you put your numbers together, and how you define 'asians' for example. as in 'asians' living across the continent do not constitute a single ethnicity; not a dig, just pointing it out.

here's one article on lactase persistence.