12 week keto experiment

[xJellyBirdx]

I'm back to keto! After a few discussions with some members and reading some of Dr. Attia's work, plus the over whelming studies that have been conducted on humans in regards to nutritional ketosis, I've decide to adventure back down this road. Except I'm taking the approach of an experiment. 12 weeks on a ketogenic diet. No carb ups, CKD or TKD. Let us see what happens!

My rules to follow are <50g net CHO, 0.6-0.8g protein per body weight, and the rest all into fat, every single day.

I started Day 1 on Monday so I am currently 3 days in.



10/14

3572 calories, <20g carbs, 160ish protein


10/15

3619 calories, 160g protein, bout 16g net CHO, and 266g+ fat


10/16

3573 calories, <20g carbs, 165g protein, and a lot of fat lol

[resilience5241]

Who's this strapping young man taking over the Keto section? Welcome! You know I'll be here to bug you along the way!

[sambshep]

Subscribed

Are you eating at your TEE, a deficit, or surplus?

[xJellyBirdx]

Who's this strapping young man taking over the Keto section? Welcome! You know I'll be here to bug you along the way!

So let me get this straight. You're an old lady and I'm a strapping young man? Go home, you're drunk lol. I bet I'm older than you

Subscribed

Are you eating at your TEE, a deficit, or surplus?

Currently I aim for 3400-3800 calories Monday through Friday. I believe this to be a deficit for me but I'll wait till I adapt and see what happens to be certain.

[aaaaaaaaaachooo]

*IN* !!!

We're all gunna make it!

[xJellyBirdx]

*IN* !!!

We're all gunna make it!

Welcome man!

[sambshep]

*IN* !!!

We're all gunna make it!

Thanks, I got this song stuck in my head once again...

[xJellyBirdx]

After watching this video all I can think is two things. One, I'm not that old thankfully. Two, is this picture....



Also...


10/17

3419 cals, 16g net CHO, 156g protein, and 266g fat.

My fat is broken down as follows... 47% SFA, 30% MUFAs, 22% PUFAs. On a side note, I feel so tiny now that I've dumped a lot of glycogen

[resilience5241]

So let me get this straight. You're an old lady and I'm a strapping young man? Go home, you're drunk lol. I bet I'm older than you

My age is listed on here, pony up young buck!

On a side note, I feel so tiny now that I've dumped a lot of glycogen

^^^^^^^^^^^

We're all gunna make it!

[sambshep]

I'm not that old either, I just happen to be familiar with oldies music.

Any particular reason why your protein is at 156g? That seems a bit low.

[xJellyBirdx]

My age is listed on here, pony up young buck!

I am 26. I win! Thanks for playing

Any particular reason why your protein is at 156g? That seems a bit low.

It isn't. I feel like most the keto information in this sub-forum to be wrong. Lyle's book talks about nitrogen balance and that you need just enough protein to strike nitrogen balance. In the same section he states that 150g protein should be enough for a person of any size to hit nitrogen balance. What I didn't know at the time was nitrogen balance should be largely disregarded.

Now, Dr. Attia's keto format, maybe not during adaption but certainly after adapting, is CHO (total, not “net”): less than 50 gm/day, but ideally closer to 30 gm/day, protein: up to 1 to 1.5 gm/kg, but ideally below about 120 gm/day, and fat: to satiety.

Now I asked Pug about this and his response was.....

"The delta is primarily in total protein intake, which should be based on target bodyweight in those who are overweight/obese. The slightly higher protein recommendations that I (and some others) recommend is for those who are engaging in vigorous, progressive resistance training.

CHO intake in those who exercise intensively can usually be kept to <50 grams without needing to get to 30 grams or below, assuming reasonably good metabolic health.

If you don't respond to such, then further restriction of dietary carbs and protein can be tried (to Attia's recommendations), with discrete energy restriction added as a last resort."

So with all those considered I like to keep my CHO low, protein at moderate, and fat as high as possible. That is just my outlook at the moment though.

[sambshep]

I tend to recommend a net carbohydrate intake between 0-50g and to only consume enough that allows for you to reach dietary fiber requirements. There isn't much point in consuming any more than that for SKD or its variations. Protein recommendations are so all over the place it's no wonder people ever manage to preserve muscle tissue; in an ideal world I'd simply like to know how much protein one needs when cutting and bulking and for it to be based on lean body mass. I treat fat intake as the means to allocate the remaining calories after protein and carbohydrates are decided upon.

[xJellyBirdx]

I tend to recommend a net carbohydrate intake between 0-50g and to only consume enough that allows for you to reach dietary fiber requirements. There isn't much point in consuming any more than that for SKD or its variations. Protein recommendations are so all over the place it's no wonder people ever manage to preserve muscle tissue; in an ideal world I'd simply like to know how much protein one needs when cutting and bulking and for it to be based on lean body mass. I treat fat intake as the means to allocate the remaining calories after protein and carbohydrates are decided upon.

My only concern in regards to limiting CHO to fiber only is potential micro deficiencies. I'm still interested in that part of nutritional ketosis. Getting all the micros needed that is. I also agree with you on the protein being all over the place but I feel like it makes sense when considering the above. Since protein is anti-ketogenic, too much protein can be just as bad as too little protein. Once fully adapted it is all down regulated so I would say that you need just enough protein for your given situation. Lyle has a 2 part article on working out while cutting and one about setting the deficit that are pretty interesting to read. Not keto related but still a valuable read none the less.


Oh yeah, my update...

10/18

Calories 3569, 156 protein, 266g fat, and potentially 40 carbs net.

Knocked out an additional rep on the wrist roller using 20 lbs. Getting there.... Also, I don't know what kind of music you guys like but if you're into metal, should check out 'In this moment.' It is pretty much sex without the penetration.

[sambshep]

It is pretty much sex without the penetration.

What about penetration without the sex?

[xJellyBirdx]

What about penetration without the sex?

I like to describe things by using extremes.

[alexg5775]

I really like the work of Peter Attia. I have read all of his articles on the site, many of them more than once Very very interesting read.

I have a weight scale next to my bed and weight my self every AM and write down on a paper my weight and track my progress. Great way to keep numeric tab on your self. I think your macros look very good. Daily caloric intake might look slightly high, i am assuming you are cutting; BUT I dont know your TDEE. good luck

Alex

[xJellyBirdx]

I really like the work of Peter Attia. I have read all of his articles on the site, many of them more than once Very very interesting read.

I have a weight scale next to my bed and weight my self every AM and write down on a paper my weight and track my progress. Great way to keep numeric tab on your self. I think your macros look very good. Daily caloric intake might look slightly high, i am assuming you are cutting; BUT I dont know your TDEE. good luck

Alex

His articles are amazing but I'm not smart enough to understand what he is saying when he starts getting highly technical so I try to read them a couple times too. He does offer visuals though to try and illustrate his point which I like a lot because I'm a visual learner. A lot of other people do not offer that.

Sam said the same thing about my calories. I don't disagree lol. I've read some of Lyle's articles and starting to wonder if maybe 3400-3800 is more of a maintenance range considering I've stayed level the past months despite trying to cut. After I adapt I want to tinker around a bit more but for now I want to stay where I am at because I feel comfortable there.

I'm not proud of it but I do weigh myself everyday. Just to see and write them down on a calendar so I can see the big picture. My scale just broke though so I'm in the process of getting a new one. My biggest concern right now is athletic performance. So far everything is just peachy! Had a friend ask me to help knock out a wall today. Got the Kansas city shuffle baby. Turned into the whole room including the ceiling. Plus, he bailed on me an hour in. I ended up knocking out the whole thing in 3 hours by myself. <3 keto.

[xJellyBirdx]

10/19

3710 cals, 159g protein, 23g net CHO, 268g+ fat

[sambshep]

How have your workouts been coming along? Have you noticed a decline since switching to SKD?

[xJellyBirdx]

How have your workouts been coming along? Have you noticed a decline since switching to SKD?

Not really. I took it easy the first week. Last week I did 2 exercises a day for 4 days, using a 5x5 format. Hit my current lifts. plus an extra rep of wrist rolls. Ripping apart that room was the most physical work I've done so far. Seemed good so now I feel comfortable picking up the intensity.

[WonderPug]

Subscribed.

[xJellyBirdx]

Subscribed.

Talk about pressure. Thanks man, anything you say definitely wont fall on deaf ears.



10/20

Ehh, I messed up today. I think I went over on my protein (potentially up to 190g) and I'm pretty sure I went over on my calories (any where from 2800-3600 calories). My carbs are in line. We had Sunday breakfast as a house and that was the start of my lack of tracking. Sorry guys, and girls


Also, I decided to do some much needed reading this weekend and talk about a foot in mouth moment. Double Ugh. Must read more of Lyle's work. In case anyone else is interested I'll include the links.

You are not different
Metabolic Rate Overview
Nutrient Metabolism Overview
a Primer on Nutrition part 1
Nutrient Intake, Storage, and oxidation
Setting the Deficit - Small, Moderate, or Large
How to Estimate Maintenance Caloric Intake
Weight Training for Fat Loss part 1
Weight Training for Fat Loss part 2

Definitely plan to reread and read more.

[sambshep]

I would just be careful that you don't try too many things or make too many changes all at once, as that will make establishing the cause(s) for results nigh impossible. I wouldn't stress too much about going slightly off track

[resilience5241]

Week 1 in the bag! Not bad at all for your first week back

[xJellyBirdx]

I would just be careful that you don't try too many things or make too many changes all at once, as that will make establishing the cause(s) for results nigh impossible. I wouldn't stress too much about going slightly off track

Agreed. I don't plan on getting crazy or anything. Also, thanks man, I'm on spread and will get you back. Promise.

[sambshep]

Agreed. I don't plan on getting crazy or anything. Also, thanks man, I'm on spread and will get you back. Promise.

Yeah as a rule of thumb for myself, I only change one thing per week (whether it be dropping cardio, changing caloric intake, etc.). And don't mention it

[xJellyBirdx]

UGH! This might be the day of as sholes or maybe my tolerance is thin today. I'm usually a very calm, collective person, with really thick skin but today all I wanted to do was put my as s kicking boots on. Take that, factor in I bruised a bone in my hand the other day, and my ipod crashed on me right as I was trying to load a song on it thus leaving me with no music to workout, and you got me ready to rage. I've been so restless since Saturday morning...

Anyways!!! Added 10 lbs to legs, 5 lbs to chest, 5 lbs to triceps, 3 full reps on the wrist roller now with 20 lbs attached. Biceps stayed at 40 lbs on each side of the bar. Calves went up and back went up. Been <50g net CHO for over a week now and no sign of performance issues yet. I'm going to destroy you next time bicep curls, that's a promise.



10/21

3533 calories, 163g protein, 23g net CHO, 266g fat



I added brussel sprouts and broccoli to my diet (brussel sprouts are a new veggie I learned to like). Next week I want to add some more veggies. Thinking about garlic, maybe carrots or beets, or both. I've also upped my salt intake. I think it is safe to assume I'm using over a half oz of salt a day. Think that covers it.

Rob Bailey made me feel better with this video lol. I wanna be big like him


/rant
/day

[sambshep]

Brussels sprouts with butter is tasty.

[WonderPug]

Added 10 lbs to legs, 5 lbs to chest, 5 lbs to triceps, 3 full reps on the wrist roller now with 20 lbs attached. Biceps stayed at 40 lbs on each side of the bar. Calves went up and back went up. Been <50g net CHO for over a week now and no sign of performance issues yet. I'm going to destroy you next time bicep curls, that's a promise.

Awesome work.

[resilience5241]

UGH! This might be the day of as sholes or maybe my tolerance is thin today. I'm usually a very calm, collective person, with really thick skin but today all I wanted to do was put my as s kicking boots on. Take that, factor in I bruised a bone in my hand the other day, and my ipod crashed on me right as I was trying to load a song on it thus leaving me with no music to workout, and you got me ready to rage. I've been so restless since Saturday morning...

Anyways!!! Added 10 lbs to legs, 5 lbs to chest, 5 lbs to triceps, 3 full reps on the wrist roller now with 20 lbs attached. Biceps stayed at 40 lbs on each side of the bar. Calves went up and back went up. Been <50g net CHO for over a week now and no sign of performance issues yet. I'm going to destroy you next time bicep curls, that's a promise.



10/21

3533 calories, 163g protein, 23g net CHO, 266g fat

Glad you made it through the day without killing anyone You're doing great with the diet AND performance, so that's something to be happy for!

I added brussel sprouts and broccoli to my diet (brussel sprouts are a new veggie I learned to like).

If you fry brussel sprouts in oil (until they're almost black) then mix them up with some balsamic vinegrette..... MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!

Rob Bailey made me feel better with this video lol. I wanna be big like him

Can I be your DLB?