What do you think of this? I tried to mush the push and pull together to make it an upper/lower routine. Volume on first upper day seems a bit high, but I wanted two exercises per muscle group.
Just changed the two uppers around a bit, and moved the ohp to the first day.
Upper:
OHP (5 3 1 system)
Incline BB Bench Press, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
Flat DB Bench Press, 3 Sets, 8-10 reps
Pendlay row: 3 sets, 6-10 reps
One arm bent over row: 2 sets, 8-12 reps
Side Laterals, 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
Tricep Dips (Heavy), 3 Sets, 5-8 reps
Dumbell curls: 3 sets, 8-12 reps
Lower:
Squats (Heavy), 3 Sets, 5 3 1 System
Deadlifts, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
Leg Extensions, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
SLDL/Leg Curls, 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
BB Calf Raises (w/ Plates under feet), 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
Upper:
Flat Bench (Heavy), 3 Sets, 5 3 1 System
Pull ups/pulldowns, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
Incline DB, 2 Sets, 6-10 reps
One Arm DB Rows, 2 Sets, 6-10 reps
Dumbell shoulder press, 3 Sets, 6-10
Side Hammer Curls (Light), 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
Skullcrushers (Light), 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
Lower:
Deadlifts (Heavy), 3 Sets, 5 3 1 System
Squats, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
Leg Curls, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
Front Squats/Leg Extensions, 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
BB Calf Raises, 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
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11-05-2013, 10:54 PM #31SS + GOMAD is all you need srs
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11-06-2013, 12:01 AM #32
You can go even higher if you want to: http://www.t-nation.com/training/8-6...e-and-strength (this has numbers worked out as well)
Also, just a tip - don't work with your 1RM, work with 90% of your 1RM and make calculations of that. Not a big difference but there is a reason for that in the 5/3/1 "protocol".
Other than that - the program seem okay, it keeps to good frequency and good exercises, but imo it's not needed for a simple reason - 5/3/1 is such a flexible program you can vary the frequency to 2x muscle group a week easily.
So really, the only difference between a slightly tweaked 5/3/1 and this is that you add an extra day (and split upper into push & pull). I get what and why you're trying this though.
One improvement I would suggest making is this: add another 5/3/1 for your pull movements. Something like barbell row or weighted pull ups with a 5/3/1 (or 8/6/3) scheme will balance out the heavy push you do.
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11-06-2013, 02:45 AM #33
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11-06-2013, 02:54 AM #34
Hey bro thanks for the input and that's a good article by T-Nation. As I have said this is nothing revolutionary, just a tried and tested version of the many that are out there of 5 3 1. A big difference with this one, is that it actually works.
I also rotate my TM and 1RM cycles. So for the first 6 weeks I'll use my TM as recommended by Jim (minus the deload weeks), then for weeks 7-9 I'll use my 1RM and try for a new PR based off of my previous training maxes. Then I'll deload.
Finally the reason I DO NOT do 5 3 1 for any back exercises such as the row or pull up is mainly because those exercises are more injury prone for the body. Which is why I just stick to doing lower reps rather than 5 3 1. Sometimes I vary the range of a row movement e.g. 3-5 reps, 5-8 reps but ill never go above 10 for the heavy days.
Thanks againBench Press: 142.5kg
OHP: 102.5kg
Deadlift: 222.5kg
Squat: 187.5kg
@ 76kg
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11-06-2013, 01:22 PM #35
I've been doing something similar the last 2 months:
PUSH:
Bench press 5/3/1
Low inclined dumbbell press
Military press*
Lateral raises
Tricep extensions
PULL:
Bent over rows 5/3/1
Chin ups
Face pulls
Bicep curls
LEGS:
Power cleans 4 ramping sets
Squat 5/3/1
Romanian deadlifts
Leg extensions*
Leg curls*
Standing and seated calf raises*
* exercises are optional, I do them if I feel fresh (actually on most days). Everything that isn't 5/3/1 or power cleans I do 3x12 (I increase the weight when I get 12 reps in every set, 20 for calves). I do 5/3/1 with joker sets and first set last (beyond 5/3/1 book) and I just alternate these workouts whenever I go to the gym and every 2 cycles I do a deload week (beyond 5/3/1 too). When I don't/barely get the minimum prescribed reps for the last 5/3/1 sets with GOOD FORM (very important in bent over rows) I reset the weight by 10% in that exercise. I would add some exercises if I find a lagging muscle (like shrugs/flyes...). I hate doing abs but they can be done every other day.
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11-06-2013, 01:55 PM #36
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11-06-2013, 02:08 PM #37
I don't think he claims it is made better. It is by no means an improvement to 5/3/1, just a modification.
In my opinion it is quite alright to tweak a routine for your own goals. Some people like to train more often for instance, why not use well established principles that work within that program?
imo this is a decent routine for anyone who wants a little higher volume and train more often on 5/3/1, however I would recommend most people to stick to normal 5/3/1 and only start modifiying it after running it for a while.
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11-06-2013, 02:22 PM #38
It's not better or worse, each person has its own goals, needs, abilities and tastes. I hate that "it's a proven program, don't change anything" mentality, they are general routines and not designed for the individual. 5/3/1 is excellent but if you have read his books you will know that it's very customizable. In fact that's what I like the most of the program. I understand that beginners shouldn't customize routines but IMO once you are intermediate it's good to customize them, experiment, etc.
Last edited by krysix; 11-07-2013 at 05:54 AM.
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11-06-2013, 11:06 PM #39
I'm glad you like it
FYI, I don't believe I ever mentioned this routine being better than the original 5 3 1. And I still can't comprehend why people get so negative when someone doesn't use a routine by it's exact guidelines. When will people learn that everyone is too individual to stick to EXACT routine guidelines. I manipulated the routine to suit my goals, needs, lifestyle and enjoyment and I think I did a damn good job of it.
Good luck with your goalsBench Press: 142.5kg
OHP: 102.5kg
Deadlift: 222.5kg
Squat: 187.5kg
@ 76kg
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11-07-2013, 03:49 AM #40
Violander and Krysx - You're missing the point.
If you guys need someone else to simply combine two currently existing routines in the most basic of ways and then advertise and bump it like its some revolutionary program or something that took longer than a minute to do even think of then maybe you shouldnt be training.
Id hate to see how you'd move forward in your training without BL17 telling you that its ok to skip a rep, change rep ranges, deload, etc.
...maybe ill create "Starting 5/3/1" and bump it till I get recognitionMy log
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147800823&p=941910683#post941910683
PSN ID: I_M-th3-b3ast
Playing Skyrim
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11-07-2013, 03:55 AM #41
As stated COUNTLESS times. This routine is NOT revolutionary. It's a routine that has been thought out, tried and tested to prove that it's a good variation that works. Some people aren't as advanced to create their own program and want a layout as a start or to even copy for a little while, until they find what works best for them by changing rep schemes, sets etc. People are more than welcome to ask me whats a good idea and what isn't, and I will tell them exactly what I think.
Maybe you should give it a go?Bench Press: 142.5kg
OHP: 102.5kg
Deadlift: 222.5kg
Squat: 187.5kg
@ 76kg
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11-07-2013, 04:18 AM #42
Noone 'needs' anyone tom combine anything.
He made a routine, he is proud of it. It's a decent routine.
He isn't being a kid and telling everyone "do this, this is the best". If he did, I'd jump at him as you did.
He simply posted his routine saying - "look, this is what I made, I think it's good"
As far as I can see he isn't elling anyone this is the better version. It's a modified version for anyone looking to tweak a program and he is also posting his "results" for anyone interested if this is effective
No need to be a jackass
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11-07-2013, 12:19 PM #43
- Join Date: Jun 2007
- Location: Florida, United States
- Posts: 12,807
- Rep Power: 116323
Looks solid! May actually try this. I've been wondering about these two routines anyhow.
"Milk is for babies. When you grow up you have to drink beer." - Arnold
USAF
OEF/OIF/OIR
Boston Bruins, New England Patriots, Boston Red Sox, Liverpool FC.
Check out my landscape oil paintings. https://www.happypaintingsbycraig.com
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11-10-2013, 09:17 AM #44
- Join Date: Jun 2007
- Location: Florida, United States
- Posts: 12,807
- Rep Power: 116323
So after reading up on 5/3/1 and PHAT, this modification looks to be exactly the type of program I'm looking for. Gonna give it a go starting tomorrow and see how it goes.
Do you do abs OP? How often?Last edited by GarthVader; 11-10-2013 at 09:35 AM.
"Milk is for babies. When you grow up you have to drink beer." - Arnold
USAF
OEF/OIF/OIR
Boston Bruins, New England Patriots, Boston Red Sox, Liverpool FC.
Check out my landscape oil paintings. https://www.happypaintingsbycraig.com
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11-10-2013, 12:05 PM #45
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11-10-2013, 01:26 PM #46
Hey bro, definitely give this WO a try!! And as for abs I do not train them, never have, never will probably. Some people look down on it but it allows me to keep a great shoulder to waste ratio and in my opinion there's just no need with the amount of core work involved with nearly every single compound movement. But if you are adamant then doing them twice a week on Pull and Lower Day wouldn't be detrimental by any means
Bench Press: 142.5kg
OHP: 102.5kg
Deadlift: 222.5kg
Squat: 187.5kg
@ 76kg
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08-10-2014, 01:11 AM #47
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08-10-2014, 01:25 AM #48
- Join Date: Jun 2013
- Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Age: 42
- Posts: 734
- Rep Power: 225
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10-01-2014, 05:27 AM #49
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10-24-2014, 08:24 PM #50
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10-24-2014, 09:55 PM #51
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10-24-2014, 11:40 PM #52
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10-25-2014, 10:27 AM #53
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10-25-2014, 02:23 PM #54
- Join Date: Jun 2007
- Location: Florida, United States
- Posts: 12,807
- Rep Power: 116323
Starting this routine again this year. Did it last year with some great results, modified it a couple cycles in with more results. Modifying it again and doing it this year. I only modify the accessory exercises and sets and rep ranges.
"Milk is for babies. When you grow up you have to drink beer." - Arnold
USAF
OEF/OIF/OIR
Boston Bruins, New England Patriots, Boston Red Sox, Liverpool FC.
Check out my landscape oil paintings. https://www.happypaintingsbycraig.com
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11-27-2014, 01:34 PM #55
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11-28-2014, 12:55 AM #56
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11-28-2014, 01:31 AM #57
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11-28-2014, 01:39 AM #58
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11-28-2014, 09:05 AM #59
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03-06-2015, 03:57 PM #60
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