Not doing keto anymore

[mattvdh]

I gave it about a month long shot and I was definitely in ketosis. I learned a few valuable lessons regarding insulin, carbs, and fats but I ran in to a few different issues that have deterred me from pursuing this diet long-term.

1. Lacks fiber
2. Restricitive of many foods with good micronutrients
3. Excessive LDL cholesterol in many of the foods
4. Didn't seem to loose any body fat, just seemed like mere muscle glycogen depletion
5. Muscles flattened out, see #4
6. Very limited in options--how often can you eat eggs, bacon and beef before you grow tired of it
7. I know ketones are supposedly muscle-sparing, but I felt like I needed more protein


So basically, I've modified my diet again so that I'm eating some carbs in the morning but try to minimized insulinogenic foods in the evening. I did lose a few pounds, but again it didn't seem like it was body fat dropping. Now that I'm back on carbs it seems like I have a lot more strength and I feel like I need to go burn off some energy after consuming a good amount of carbs.

Now that I've reintroduced carbs in my diet I find that rice, bread and oats really don't do much for me in terms of energy, I prefer pasta, sweet potato and beans. It was an interesting experiment, but I don't think it's a good long term diet for the average active person or non-diabetic.

[Atavis]

You seem to have some big misconceptions. but okay. Good luck.

[mattvdh]

like what?

[Blibble]

6. Very limited in options--how often can you eat eggs, bacon and beef before you grow tired of it

Every goddamn day of the year bro.

[mattvdh]

your ass hole and heart must hate you

[artbum]

very similar results for me, except worse, I actually gained fat lol. But I'm still sticking with it, must get the diet tighter. More fat, make sure I get 1g/pound of lean weight, and absolutely never go over 20g carbs. Also adding HIIT cardio 2-3x week. I better see results!

[Blibble]

you ass hole and heart must hate you

Why would it?

[mattvdh]

very similar results for me, except worse, I actually gained fat lol. But I'm still sticking with it, must get the diet tighter. More fat, make sure I get 1g/pound of lean weight, and absolutely never go over 20g carbs. Also adding HIIT cardio 2-3x week. I better see results!

Adding HIIT to any diet would yield results

[mattvdh]

Why would it?

high in LDL and low in fiber

[Blibble]

high in LDL and low in fiber

So, add some fibre in?

[mattvdh]

carbs are you main source of fiber--fiber counters the goal of the diet. some people say just eat broccoli, it has fiber, ya but you'd have eat well over your daily carb allowance to meet your fiber needs.

[Blibble]

carbs are you main source of fiber--fiber counters the goal of the diet. some people say just eat broccoli, it has fiber, ya but you'd have eat well over your daily carb allowance to meet your fiber needs.

No, dietary fibre isn't counted when you count your carbs. Your daily carb intake, is after dietary fibre.

[mattvdh]

You lost me. The max amount of carbs after 3 weeks is 20grams of carbs a day. If you consume any more than 20-30g's you'll lessen the ketosis effect.

And besides, ketosis can burn something like 128g's a day maximum, that's nothing, you can just go for a 15 minute bike ride on a normal carb diet and achieve the safe effect.

[Blibble]

Your body cannot digest dietary fibre, thus the calories from it, are not included in your macros as they will not count towards any weight gain. So if you eat something with 5g carbs but 3g dietary fibre, you are only eating 2g carbs for the purposes of your macronutrients.

As I understand it, there are 2 types of fibre and one can be digested, but dietary fibre cannot. But that's not something I know much about the other kind.

Regards your second line, or you could go for a 15 minute bike ride on a keto diet and get both results side by side.

Also, I'm sticking to 20g of carbs a day but as I understand it, you can go right the way to 50 daily. Sambs seems to understand this bit more than me though.

[mattvdh]

fiber acts as a buffer, it helps push food along. A carb is a carb, the fiber content doesn't lessen the calories or content from any specific macro.

[Blibble]

fiber acts as a buffer, it helps push food along. A carb is a carb, the fiber content doesn't lessen the calories or content from any specific macro.

It isn't that a carb is made up of some fibre, fibre IS a carb. The carbs you see on the label include carbs that are not fibre i.e sugar, plus carbs that are fibre. Carbs that are dietary fibre are ignored because you can't digest it.

Strictly speaking fiber is a carbohydrate. However, humans do not have the enzymes necessary to digest fiber and derive any carbohydrate grams or calories from it. Therefore, fiber intake should not be counted as partof the total daily carbohydrate grams consumed on a ketogenic diet.

Similarly, there is some confusion regarding food labels and fiber content. By law, fiber has
to be listed in the total carbohydrate grams part of the food label as well as being listed
separately. However, it should not be counted as a carbohydrate in terms of ketosis and a
ketogenic diet. Therefore, the total grams of fiber in a food should be subtracted from the total grams of carbohydrate in order to determine how many grams of carbohydrate that food will contribute to daily totals. If a food lists 20 grams of carbohydrates, but 7 grams of fiber, only 13 grams of carbohydrate should be counted towards the daily total.

And even when it comes to the fibre that we CAN digest, as we can digest soluble fibre but not insoluble fibre;

According to a 2002 report by the Institute of Medicine (IOM) regarding dietary reference intakes, the energy yield of fiber when consumed by humans is somewhere in the range of 1.5 to 2.5 Calories (kCal) per gram (6.3 to 10.5 kilojoules per gram).

It's argued at being 2 calories per gram, half the calorie content that we immediately assume when we do the maths.

[Atavis]

like what?

Like everything you posted after your OP and even most of your OP.

[aaaaaaaaaachooo]

I usually eat about 60gr carbs / day (CKD)
40gr Fiber
=
ONLY 20gr carbs

It's not the diet for you if you aren't thinking longer term.
Generally the "fat-loss" doesn't really kick in until 3-4 weeks into it.

Good luck to you though sir ~ I'm going nowhere.
Body Opus FTW!!! lulzz

[mattvdh]

Like everything you posted after your OP and even most of your OP.

be more specific

[mattvdh]

I usually eat about 60gr carbs / day (CKD)
40gr Fiber
=
ONLY 20gr carbs

It's not the diet for you if you aren't thinking longer term.
Generally the "fat-loss" doesn't really kick in until 3-4 weeks into it.

Good luck to you though sir ~ I'm going nowhere.
Body Opus FTW!!! lulzz

why did you put fat loss in quotes? I was in ketosis for longer than 3-4 weeks, I didn't lose any fat, I lost a bit of weight but after I did a carb refeed day I put it all back on, so that tells me that it's just water retention/glycogen.

[mattvdh]

How can you guys trust McDonalds guide, he's all over the place with this diets. One book he talks about fasting, another, high protein another low carb, another is flexible...can't the guy make up his mind.

I think I prefer Aragon's methods as he is consistent with his views and is very sensible, plus he trains some big name athletes.
"Carbs do not make you fat. (Picking up on a theme?)

Ever since the low-carb craze began in the early 1990s, carbohydrates have been demonized as the cause of the growing obesity rates. And while a low-carb diet does have many health benefits and can lead to lasting weight loss, there is no “metabolic advantage” to going low carb. In fact, a study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition compared a low-carb diet with one that was higher in carbohydrates. The result: There was no difference in weight loss or changes in the ratio of muscle-to-fat. What’s more, when researchers compared a low-carb diet with a low-fat diet (and higher in carbs), they discovered that neither was better at boosting metabolism.

You can analyze studies and research all day, but the bottom line is simple: You can eat carbs and still lose weight. The diet you choose will be largely dependent on many personal preferences and eating styles, and whether it’s low carb or higher in carbs, both strategies can be equally effective at creating change. "

http://ironwarriorstraining.tumblr.com/nutrition101

[Blibble]

You're the one that's all over the place.

Nobody said that carbs make you fat. Otherwise we'd never carb up on a weekend. Excess calories over time make you fat.

You can eat carbs and still lose weight, or you can follow Keto and still lose weight. I thought people typically followed Keto for it's muscle sparing whilst on a cut.

[aaaaaaaaaachooo]

why did you put fat loss in quotes? I was in ketosis for longer than 3-4 weeks, I didn't lose any fat, I lost a bit of weight but after I did a carb refeed day I put it all back on, so that tells me that it's just water retention/glycogen.

lulz, you said you "gave it about a month long shot".
The reason I put fat-loss in quotes is due to the fact that the in the beginning of the diet the weight loss is all water/glycogen.
Once you become adapted & have been doing it for awhile, you notice a "whoosh" effect & re-comp effect.
THAT's when you realize that this diet actually works wonders.
Sorry you didn't stick it out long enough to see this. Enjoy your carbs. lol

I thought people typically followed Keto for it's muscle sparing whilst on a cut.

This x2

[mattvdh]

You're the one that's all over the place.

Nobody said that carbs make you fat. Otherwise we'd never carb up on a weekend. Excess calories over time make you fat.

You can eat carbs and still lose weight, or you can follow Keto and still lose weight. I thought people typically followed Keto for it's muscle sparing whilst on a cut.

As long as you meet your protein needs it is muscle sparing, almost everything I've read/seen regarding keto is that it's a fat loss diet.

[mattvdh]

lulz, you said you "gave it about a month long shot".
The reason I put fat-loss in quotes is due to the fact that the in the beginning of the diet the weight loss is all water/glycogen.
Once you become adapted & have been doing it for awhile, you notice a "whoosh" effect & re-comp effect.
THAT's when you realize that this diet actually works wonders.
Sorry you didn't stick it out long enough to see this. Enjoy your carbs. lol



This x2

A month is a fair enough time frame to perform an N=1. I was in deep ketosis on about 8th day. I didn't do any carb refeeds until the end of the month.

I think you're exaggerating the body recomposition effect, no diet can change your body dramatically without a proper workout routine in place. Sounds like it was just coincidental timing in your case.

I'm still pretty low carb (about 500 cals) but I my goal isn't ketosis any more, its just too demanding to have to work your life around it. If I'm out with friends and they're serving some awesome carb meal, like Italian food, I don't want to be that guy.

[aaaaaaaaaachooo]

""I believe that when we diet down on lower carb diets as opposed to VLC, we actually cause more muscle loss. Think about it, if the body is still in a state of using glucose for energy, even if you are only having one cup of oatmeal per day, then it will turn to the process of gluconeogenesis, turning amino acids into glucose. Yes, that means your muscle will be "burned" for energy.""

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/how-...-opus-diet.htm


It's not for everyone man - but I personally love it. lol

[mattvdh]

Well if that were true then why isn't every body builder adopting this diet format? They're obsessed with muscle gains and retention and would take any advantage presented. They would inject motor oil if it meant greater gains.

"Duchaine recommended keeping carbs below 12 grams a day, including vegetable sources."
Ok, good luck with that.

[Rugger7]

1. Lacks fiber
2. Restricitive of many foods with good micronutrients
3. Excessive LDL cholesterol in many of the foods
4. Didn't seem to loose any body fat, just seemed like mere muscle glycogen depletion
5. Muscles flattened out, see #4
6. Very limited in options--how often can you eat eggs, bacon and beef before you grow tired of it
7. I know ketones are supposedly muscle-sparing, but I felt like I needed more protein

1. Fiber comes from vegetables, we can't make you eat your vegetables. You only count net carbs. You can take psyllium husks if you want more fiber.
2.You can build a proper micronutrient profile eating carbs or no carbs.
3. Dietary cholesterol does not equal blood cholesterol, sorry you are confused here. Many studies show keto diets improve blood lipid profiles. Cholesterol, triglycerides, you name it.
4.Then you did it wrong, either you needed to eat less or exercise more.
5.Drink water, lift harder, build bigger muscles, mine are never flat.
6.There are at least 30 foods I eat on a regular basis. There is a whole keto recipe section where you can even learn to make bread and pizza and ice cream like concoctions. I can eat meat and eggs and cheese and mayo all day every day. So maybe this is your point, if these aren't your favorite foods, and you like fruit and pasta and rice and bread, then yes get off keto.
7.Eat more protein.

[aaaaaaaaaachooo]

Well if that were true then why isn't every body builder adopting this diet format? They're obsessed with muscle gains and retention and would take any advantage presented. They would inject motor oil if it meant greater gains.

Probably for several reasons.
Looking completely "flat" with depleted glycogen can be mentally depressing.
Most are on gear / or certain substances that require carbs.
Carbs are in practically everything, so maintaining next to no carbs/day is easier said than done.

On the typical diet, for every 3-4lbs of fat loss, there's 1lb of muscle loss.
For me as a natty, that's unacceptable. Retaining that precious LBM is what makes keto so great.
Also, I got blood work done while on this diet, and everything was fine.

I will never try to convince someone that carbs are bad, or carbs make you fat, b/c that's totally untrue.
I can only share what has worked for me personally.

I think a LOT more people utilize keto/carb cycling than you think, as it tends to be a very effective tool for cutting.

[mattvdh]

1. Fiber comes from vegetables, we can't make you eat your vegetables. You only count net carbs. You can take psyllium husks if you want more fiber.
2.You can build a proper micronutrient profile eating carbs or no carbs.
3. Dietary cholesterol does not equal blood cholesterol, sorry you are confused here. Many studies show keto diets improve blood lipid profiles. Cholesterol, triglycerides, you name it.
4.Then you did it wrong, either you needed to eat less or exercise more.
5.Drink water, lift harder, build bigger muscles, mine are never flat.
6.There are at least 30 foods I eat on a regular basis. There is a whole keto recipe section where you can even learn to make bread and pizza and ice cream like concoctions. I can eat meat and eggs and cheese and mayo all day every day. So maybe this is your point, if these aren't your favorite foods, and you like fruit and pasta and rice and bread, then yes get off keto.
7.Eat more protein.

1. I was taking psyllium husks, wasn't cutting it...when I'd take enough it induced sharp pains in the gut
2. no you can't, some micro's are only in carb rich foods
3. what do you mean, you blood cholesterol reflects your dietary intake, if you eat too much LDL it increases your blood cholesterol levels/blood pressure
4. Nope, I didn't, I was exercising plenty and wasn't over eating.
5. Muscle glycogen depletion is inevitable, thus muscle flatness occurs, I always drink plenty of water
6. Yeah I familiarized myself with the keto recipes, they're very limited and most weren't truly keto friendly/low carb
7. too much protein kicks you out of ketosis