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  1. #1
    Registered User PuppyKicker's Avatar
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    Best Amino Acid Complex?

    I'm thinking about getting an amino acid complex to help supplement my current diet. I'm trying to cut still, but I assume taking an amino acid complex would help curb muscle loss. What is the best complex out there?
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    Amino acids are a useless investment. What you want is some BCAAs.

    Use the search function, type in bcaas, and start reading.
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  3. #3
    Member Josh8315's Avatar
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    Some amino's, like GABA and Arg and Orn and Glut, can substantially raise GH when taken on an empty stomach. There are several studie and real science fact on this.

    Ive taken some amino cocktails before bead and woken up the next morning with *visibly* less fat. For some reason it really burned the fat in my face, and in my mid section. Or maybe those are just the areas that I can see the best.

    As for BCAA's, they arent the same as free amino's, and I've never used them and I dont know what they are supposed to do.
    later
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  4. #4
    Member Josh8315's Avatar
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    Note: My muscles felt depleted the next morning, i think in order for the GH stimulation to occur, the blood must become depleted of glucose for it to work. Or maybe there was another reason my muscles would feel weaker.

    Anyways, dont take the amino's for GH when bulking, thats my advice.

    But of course, taking arginine for errections or glutamine for anti-catabolism is another viable use- I am not saying dont take those when bulking if your really want to, and of course take glut when your cutting even if you dont want to take it on an empty stomach before bed.
    later
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  5. #5
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    Originally posted by Josh8315
    Some amino's, like GABA and Arg and Orn and Glut, can substantially raise GH when taken on an empty stomach. There are several studie and real science fact on this.
    Wrong.

    Originally posted by Josh8315

    Ive taken some amino cocktails before bead and woken up the next morning with *visibly* less fat.
    Mmmhmm... Did you jump down the rabbit hole and talk to Alice before or after this happened?
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    Ahhh come on pogue let him have his fun. LOL


    You are better off going with a BCAA formula, go with ICE for the powder form, or Beverelys BCAA for tablet form.
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  7. #7
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    I think you might be stupid

    "Specific amino acids, such as arginine, lysine and ornithine, can stimulate growth hormone (GH) release when infused intravenously or administered orally"

    Use of amino acids as growth hormone-releasing agents by athletes, Nutrition, Volume 18, Issues 7-8, July-August 2002, Pages 657-661
    Joseph A. Chromiak and Jose Antonio


    Next time please do 5 minutes of research before you make an idiot out of yourself.
    later
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  8. #8
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    Re: I think you might be stupid

    Originally posted by Josh8315
    "Specific amino acids, such as arginine, lysine and ornithine, can stimulate growth hormone (GH) release when infused intravenously or administered orally"
    Couldn't find it.

    Originally posted by Josh8315

    Use of amino acids as growth hormone-releasing agents by athletes, Nutrition, Volume 18, Issues 7-8, July-August 2002, Pages 657-661
    Joseph A. Chromiak and Jose Antonio

    Maybe you should read the studies you post.

    Use of amino acids as growth hormone-releasing agents by athletes.

    Chromiak JA, Antonio J.

    Department of Health, Physical Education, Recreation and Sport, Mississippi State University, PO Box 6186, Mississippi State, MS 39762-6186, USA. jchrom@colled.msstate.edu

    Specific amino acids, such as arginine, lysine and ornithine, can stimulate growth hormone (GH) release when infused intravenously or administered orally. Many individuals consume amino acids before strength training workouts, believing this practice accentuates the exercise-induced GH release, thereby promoting greater gains in muscle mass and strength. The GH response to amino acid administration has a high degree of interindividual variability and may be altered by training status, sex, age, and diet. Although parenteral administration consistently leads to increased circulating GH concentration, oral doses that are great enough to induce significant GH release are likely to cause stomach discomfort and diarrhea. During exercise, intensity is a major determinant of GH release. Although one study showed that arginine infusion can heighten the GH response to exercise, no studies found that pre-exercise oral amino acid supplementation augments GH release. Further, no appropriately conducted scientific studies found that oral supplementation with amino acids, which are capable of inducing GH release, before strength training increases muscle mass and strength to a greater extent than strength training alone. The use of specific amino acids to stimulate GH release by athletes is not recommended.
    Here's some more reads for you.

    Oral arginine does not stimulate basal or augment exercise-induced GH secretion in either young or old adults.

    Marcell TJ, Taaffe DR, Hawkins SA, Tarpenning KM, Pyka G, Kohlmeier L, Wiswell RA, Marcus R.

    Department of Exercise Science, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, USA. marcellt@grc.nia.nih.gov

    BACKGROUND: Growth hormone (GH) helps maintain body composition and metabolism in adults. However, basal and peak GH decline with age. Exercise produces a physiologic GH response that is subnormal in elderly people. Arginine (Arg) infusion can augment GH secretion, but the efficacy of oral Arg to improve GH response to exercise has not been explored. We investigated whether oral Arg increases GH secretion in young and old people at rest and during exercise. METHODS: Twenty young (Y: 22.1 +/- 0.9 y; SEM) and 8 old (O: 68.5 +/- 2.1 y) male and female subjects underwent three different trials following determination of their one-repetition maximum strength (1-RM); exercise only (EO; 3 sets, 8-10 reps at 85% of 1-RM; on 12 separate resistive lifts), Arg only (5.0 g), or Arg + exercise. Blood samples were collected between successive lifts, and GH (ng x ml(-1)) was determined via RIA. RESULTS: In Y vs O: Basal GH secreted (area under the curve) was 543.6 +/- 84.0 vs 211.5 +/- 63.0. During EO, values were 986.6 +/- 156.6 and 517.8 +/- 85.5. Both were significantly lower in the older individuals (p < .05). Oral Arg alone did not result in any increase in GH secretion at rest (310.8 +/- 73.2 vs 262.9 +/- 141.2). When Arg was coadministered during exercise, GH release was not affected in either the young or old and appeared to be blunted in the young compared to the exercise only trial in the young. CONCLUSION: Based upon these findings, we concluded that oral Arg does not stimulate GH secretion and may impair GH release during resistive exercise.
    The effect of arginine supplementation on growth hormone release and intestinal mucosal growth after massive small bowel resection in growing rats.

    Hebiguchi T, Kato T, Yoshino H, Mizuno M, Koyama K.

    Department of Pediatric Surgery, Akita University School of Medicine, Japan.

    Four-week-old male Sprague-Dawley rats underwent a 90% small bowel resection. From the fourth day after surgery, they were divided into group 1 and 2, and pair-fed by elemental diets (0.8 kcal/mL, 50 mL/day) with L-arginine (n = 10) or L-glycine (n = 11) as an isonitrogenous and isoenergetic supplement for 3 weeks. They were compared with each other 3 weeks after surgery. A statistical analysis was performed using the unpaired Student's t test and the one-way factorial analysis of variance (ANOVA) using Bonferroni/Dunn multiple comparison test. A Pvalue of < .05 was considered significant. There were no significant differences between the two groups in food intake, body weight, tail length, residual ileal length, and plasma IGF-I level. However, the mean height of ileal villi in group 1 showed higher than that in group 2 (P < .01). Growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH) provocative tests (1 microg per rat, intravenously) showed the more significant elevation of growth hormone IGH) secretion in the arginine supplement group than that of glycine supplement group at 5 minutes (P < .05). There were no significant differences between basal levels of plasma rat GH in both groups. It is suggested that arginine has a possible significant role of GH secretion and intestinal mucosal growth after massive small bowel resection.
    The Effect Of Ornithine Alpha-Ketoglutarate (Okg) On Healthy, Weight Trained Men. JEPonline, 3(4):37-47, 2000. The purposes of this study were to determine if OKG consumption (10 grams/day) improves strength, power and body composition in weight-trained men, and; evaluate OKG-effects on insulin and growth hormone blood concentrations, dietary intake, training intensity and volume. Eighteen resistance-trained men (age range 18-35) participated in a six-week double-blind study. Subjects were randomly assigned to an experimental (n=8) or placebo (n=10) group and were subsequently tested in 1-RM squat, 1-RM bench press, Wingate test, vertical jump, and hydrostatic weighing. After a 12-hour fast, subjects received 75g carbohydrate drinks and either OKG (10 grams) or placebo. Blood samples were obtained at baseline, 30, 60, and 90 minutes and analyzed for growth hormone, insulin and glucose. Subjects recorded their diet and training. Training volumes were similar between groups at study start and conclusion. Baseline dietary data was similar between groups except OKG-group consumed more carbohydrates (329±77g vs. 250±68g, p<0.05). Macronutrient consumption, however, was not different between groups during the experiment. Performance variables were not different between groups during the course of the study. The OKG group had a greater percentage increase in bench press strength (114±9kg vs. 123±2kg, 6.6% increase) versus controls (117±2kg vs. 118±2kg, 1.5 % increase), p<0.05. Strength gains in the squat were not different between groups. Acute training variables (i.e. sets, repetitions, exercise number) declined in both groups, while training intensity increased. Total training volume was not different between groups. No differences were noted between groups in mean levels of insulin or growth hormone after six weeks following OKG challenge. Conclusion: OKG did not alter insulin or growth hormone blood concentrations after six weeks in experienced weight-trained men. OKG does not result in increased training intensity, training volume, or muscle mass in free-living men. OKG effects on strength are unclear since bench press performance improved but squat performance did not.
    Failure of commercial oral amino acid supplements to increase serum growth hormone concentrations in male body-builders.

    Lambert MI, Hefer JA, Millar RP, Macfarlane PW.

    Dept. of Physiology, University of Cape Town Medical School, South Africa.

    Amino acids are commonly ingested as ergogenic acids in the belief that they enhance protein synthesis and stimulate growth hormone release. The aim of this study was to determine the acute effect that amino acid supplements have on serum growth hormone (GH) concentration. Seven male body-builders reported to the laboratory on four occasions after an 8-hr fast and ingested, in random order, either a placebo, a 2.4-g arginine/lysine supplement, a 1.85-g ornithine/tyrosine supplement, or a 20-g BovrilR drink. Blood was collected before each treatment and again every 30 minutes for 3 hours for the measurement of serum GH concentration. On a separate occasion, subjects had an intravenous infusion of 0.5 microgram GH-releasing hormone.kg-1 body weight to confirm that GH secretory response was normal. The main finding was that serum GH concentrations were not altered consistently in healthy young males following the ingestion of the amino acid supplements in the quantities recommended by the manufacturers.
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  9. #9
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    Many supplement marketers cite a single obscure Italian study as evidence that GABA increases growth hormone (GH) secretion in athletes. The study, which was conducted over 20 years ago, was carried out in fewer than 20 subjects, and while it did show an increase in blood levels of GH, it has yet to be replicated by other scientists.

    In more recent studies (in sheep), intravenous administration of GABA resulted in a rapid increase in plasma GH levels, while direct administration of GABA into the brain produced a significant increase in GH release. In other studies (in mice), increased concentrations of GABA in the systemic circulation have been linked to impaired liver repair.

    Studies which have examined glutamate supplements (glutamate can be converted into GABA) in athletes have shown a suppression of serum GH levels during exercise in cyclists receiving glutamate/arginine supplements. Another study found 10 grams of oral glutamic acid to stimulate the secretion some pituitary hormones (prolactin and cortisol), but no effect was seen on GH levels.
    http://www.supplementwatch.com/supat...pplementId=132
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  10. #10
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    I never said anything about AAKG. Also, just becuase someone claims that one study on GABA is false, doesnt make it false.

    In one of those studies, the GH levels were measured during workouts-not on an emtpy stomach. We all know that wouldnt work.

    "Ingestion of 1.5 g of arginine plus 1.5 g of lysine by young adults increased plasma GH concentrations 2.7-fold at 60 min postconsumption,"


    Use of amino acids as growth hormone-releasing agents by athletes, Nutrition, Volume 18, Issues 7-8, July-August 2002, Pages 657-661
    Joseph A. Chromiak and Jose Antonio


    It just so happends that arginine is so widely understood to raise GH, that a study was done to see if its effects on NO were in some way involved.


    "L-arginine-induced growth hormone secretion is not influenced by co-infusion of the nitric oxide synthase inhibitor N-monomethyl- L-arginine in healthy men, Growth Hormone & IGF Research, Volume 9, Issue 1, February 1999, Pages 69-73
    Sanne Fisker, Steen Nielsen, Lotte Ebdrup, Jesper Nørgaard Bech, Jens Sandahl Christiansen, Erling Bjerregård Pedersen and Jens Otto L. Jørgensen"
    later
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    Basically you keep posting studies using BS methods. I have said it before and I will say it again. You must consume the GABA's on an empty stomach before bed-not excersize. You posted irrelenent studies in which these were the methods.
    later
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    Member Josh8315's Avatar
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    "Couldn't find it. " Pogue, read the fist sentance in the summary. It spells it out.

    "Specific amino acids, such as arginine, lysine and ornithine, can stimulate growth hormone (GH) release when infused intravenously or administered orally"
    later
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  13. #13
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    Originally posted by Josh8315
    I never said anything about AAKG. Also, just becuase someone claims that one study on GABA is false, doesnt make it false.
    Where did I say anything about AAKG? No where.

    The answer about GABA is simple. It does not cross the BBB, so it is completely ineffective. This is why GHB was developed.

    Originally posted by Josh8315

    In one of those studies, the GH levels were measured during workouts-not on an emtpy stomach. We all know that wouldnt work.

    "Ingestion of 1.5 g of arginine plus 1.5 g of lysine by young adults increased plasma GH concentrations 2.7-fold at 60 min postconsumption,"
    Where did it say that?

    Originally posted by Josh8315

    Use of amino acids as growth hormone-releasing agents by athletes, Nutrition, Volume 18, Issues 7-8, July-August 2002, Pages 657-661
    Joseph A. Chromiak and Jose Antonio


    It just so happends that arginine is so widely understood to raise GH, that a study was done to see if its effects on NO were in some way involved.


    "L-arginine-induced growth hormone secretion is not influenced by co-infusion of the nitric oxide synthase inhibitor N-monomethyl- L-arginine in healthy men, Growth Hormone & IGF Research, Volume 9, Issue 1, February 1999, Pages 69-73
    Sanne Fisker, Steen Nielsen, Lotte Ebdrup, Jesper Nørgaard Bech, Jens Sandahl Christiansen, Erling Bjerregård Pedersen and Jens Otto L. Jørgensen"
    That study is using intravenous arginine. You're going to have to try again.

    The truth is this: No oral amino acids will give you growth hormone release, unless you take so much of them you get sick. No growth hormone containing product on the market works. There is absolutely NO OTC supplement on the market that will cause a significant amount of GH release to be noticed. The half life of growth hormone is only a few minutes, which is why bodybuilders inject it throughout the day.

    I have looked, and looked, and looked for something OTC that would assist with releasing GH, but it simply does not exist.
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    Originally posted by Josh8315
    "Couldn't find it. " Pogue, read the fist sentance in the summary. It spells it out.

    "Specific amino acids, such as arginine, lysine and ornithine, can stimulate growth hormone (GH) release when infused intravenously or administered orally"
    I already pasted that study above. The conclusions by the authors were that it is ineffective and implausable to supplement with oral amino acids enough to cause a significant growth hormone release, without causing sickness. Intravenous is a different story completely.
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    Bucci, Hickson, et al. Ornithine ingestion and growth hormone release in body builders. Nutrition Research. Vol 10, 239-245.1990.

    Isidori and Monaco, et al. A study of growth hormone release in man after oral administration of amino acids. Curr. Med. Res. Opin. Vol 7, 475-481. 1981.

    Ghigomaccario, et al. Interactions of alanine and arginine on growth hormone, prolactin, and insulin secretion in man. The Journal of Metabolism. No 41, 85-89. 1992.

    Krassowski, Rousselle, et al. The effect of ornithine alpha ketoglutarate on insulin and glucagon secretion in normal subjects. Acta Endocrinol. No 98, 252-255. 1981.

    These studies all back my point.
    later
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    Originally posted by pogue
    I already pasted that study above. The conclusions by the authors were that it is ineffective and implausable to supplement with oral amino acids enough to cause a significant growth hormone release, without causing sickness. Intravenous is a different story completely.
    Dont you know, thats what every scientist said about andro?

    And, AGAIN, that study ONLY looked at pre-workout amino consumption. They cant tell you **** about if its dont before bed and on an empty stomach.

    The reason why I quoted the study is becuase I was showing how almost all scientists, even the ones here that site reservations about the extent and effiacy of amino use, do admit the "Specific amino acids, such as arginine, lysine and ornithine, can stimulate growth hormone (GH) release when infused intravenously or administered orally", as dozens of studies have showed.
    Last edited by Josh8315; 08-13-2003 at 03:06 AM.
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    Originally posted by Josh8315
    Dont you know, thats what every scientist said about andro?
    Well, considering andro is **** - I would say they are correct. Besides, thats totally irrelevant.

    Originally posted by Josh8315

    And, AGAIN, that study ONLY looked at pre-workout amino consumption. They cant tell you **** about if its dont before bed and on an empty stomach.
    Well, I can't argue with that
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    Originally posted by Josh8315
    The reason why I quoted the study is becuase I was showing how almost all scientists, even the ones here that site reservations about the extent and effiacy of amino use, do admit the "Specific amino acids, such as arginine, lysine and ornithine, can stimulate growth hormone (GH) release when infused intravenously or administered orally", as dozens of studies have showed.
    I'm not disagreeing with you that amino acids intravenous cause growth hormone release. That is true. Also, if you take 10-20g of arginine orally, you will probably get some growth hormone release. You will probably also get very sick.
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    "]Where did I say anything about AAKG? No where. "
    Try looking at the study you posted.

    "The answer about GABA is simple. It does not cross the BBB, so it is completely ineffective. This is why GHB was developed."
    GABA does cross the blood brain barier, thats why it works.

    "That study is using intravenous arginine. You're going to have to try again."

    No, there are several studies on oral administration.

    Try:

    Bucci, Hickson, et al. Ornithine ingestion and growth hormone release in body builders. Nutrition Research. Vol 10, 239-245.1990.

    Isidori and Monaco, et al. A study of growth hormone release in man after oral administration of amino acids. Curr. Med. Res. Opin. Vol 7, 475-481. 1981 ----i pasted an excerpt

    "... carried out in 15 male volunteers to evaluate qualitatively the secretion of growth factors following stimulation by oral amino acids. The results showed that oral administration of a combination of two amino acids (1200 mg l-lysine plus 1200 mg l-arginine) provoked a release of pituitary somatotrophin and insulin. This phenomenon was reproducible and the growth hormone secreted in response to this stimulation had biological activity (as demonstrated by radiorecepter assay and somatomedin induction). The effect appeared to be specific to the combination of the two amino acids; neither of the amino acids demonstrated appreciable stimulating activity when administered alone, even at the same doses."
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    Originally posted by pogue
    I'm not disagreeing with you that amino acids intravenous cause growth hormone release. That is true. Also, if you take 10-20g of arginine orally, you will probably get some growth hormone release. You will probably also get very sick.
    Yes, this is an excellent point. It hurts like **** for about half an hour if you take megadoses. I just tough it out, and go to bed.
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    Cavagnini, F.; Invitti, C.; Pinto, M.; Maraschini, C., DiLandro, A.; Dubini, A. and Marelli, A. Effect of acute and repeated administration of gamma aminobutryic acid (GABA) on growth hormone and prolactin secretion in man. Acta Endocrinologica, 1980, 93, 149-154.

    The study used oral GABA, which was shown to be quite effective.

    The truth is that amino's DO work-I testify to this becuase I know what I've seen happen to my body, not becuase of these studies. All those GH products are BS, they are just amino cocktails that you could whip up youself for TONS less. Plus they are pritty low in dose, so they may or may not do anything. But like I said, if you try this, you will see results if your cutting.
    Last edited by Josh8315; 08-13-2003 at 03:18 AM.
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    Originally posted by Josh8315

    Bucci, Hickson, et al. Ornithine ingestion and growth hormone release in body builders. Nutrition Research. Vol 10, 239-245.1990.
    I could not find that article, however - I did find it referrenced by many supplement companies selling ornithine.

    Originally posted by Josh8315

    Isidori and Monaco, et al. A study of growth hormone release in man after oral administration of amino acids. Curr. Med. Res. Opin. Vol 7, 475-481. 1981 ----i pasted an excerpt

    "... carried out in 15 male volunteers to evaluate qualitatively the secretion of growth factors following stimulation by oral amino acids. The results showed that oral administration of a combination of two amino acids (1200 mg l-lysine plus 1200 mg l-arginine) provoked a release of pituitary somatotrophin and insulin. This phenomenon was reproducible and the growth hormone secreted in response to this stimulation had biological activity (as demonstrated by radiorecepter assay and somatomedin induction). The effect appeared to be specific to the combination of the two amino acids; neither of the amino acids demonstrated appreciable stimulating activity when administered alone, even at the same doses."
    I read this and I'm still not convinced. The abstract seemed sketchy at best. I did find the following contradictions.

    Oral arginine-lysine does not increase growth hormone or insulin-like growth factor-I in old men.

    Corpas E, Blackman MR, Roberson R, Scholfield D, Harman SM.

    Gerontology Research Center, Baltimore, MD 21224.

    BACKGROUND. Older adults tend to have reduced growth hormone (GH) secretion and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels as well as changes in body composition which are partially reversed by GH injections. Arginine stimulates GH release, and lysine may amplify this response. We investigated whether oral arginine/lysine could be used to increase basal IGF-I and GH levels in non-obese old men (age 69 +/- 5 years; mean +/- SD) to values similar to those of untreated young men (age 26 +/- 4 years). METHODS. Two groups of 8 healthy old men were treated with 3 g of arginine plus 3 g of lysine or with placebo capsules twice daily for 14 days. Before and on day 14 of each treatment GH levels were determined in blood samples taken at 20-minute intervals from 2000-0800 h, IGF-I was measured at 0800 h, and a 1 microgram/kg GHRH stimulation test was done. RESULTS. At baseline, mean GH peak amplitude (p < .02) and serum IGF-I (p < .0001) were lower, whereas GHRH responses were similar, in old vs young men. Arginine/lysine did not significantly alter spontaneous or GHRH-stimulated GH levels, or serum IGF-I. Arginine absorption was age-independent. The correlation (p < .005) between measured increments in serum arginine and increases in serum GH after a single dose of arginine/lysine was similar in old and young groups. CONCLUSIONS. Our data suggest that oral arginine/lysine is not a practical means of chronically enhancing GH secretion in old men.
    Unchanged arginine-induced stimulation of insulin, glucagon, growth hormone, and prolactin after pretreatment with indomethacin in normal man.

    Vierhapper H, Bratusch-Marrain P, Waldhausl W.

    The arginine-induced release of insulin, glucagon, GH, and PRL was studied in eight normal male volunteers. Pretreatment with indomethacin (150 mg for 3 days) failed to modify the effect of arginine on the release of these hormones. As both indomethacin and acetylsalicylic acid are potent inhibitors of the endogenous prostaglandin synthesis, these results indicate that the effect of acetylsalicylic acid on insulin and glucagon secretion, as described by others, seems to be unrelated to the suppression of endogenous prostaglandin synthesis.
    [Effects of arginine, administered orally, on the endogenous secretion of the STH-somatomedin complex in young human volunteers]

    [Article in French]

    Elsair J, Khelfat K, Ghouini A, Ikhlef F.

    Arginine, administered orally (arginine aspartate 37.5 g), induces upon voluntary fasting man laying down in bed (muscular rest), an increase of: 1) plasmatic HGH rate (radioimmunological) at 2 hours, 2) plasmatic SMs rate (biological: incorporation of 3H thymidine in human lymphocytes) at 8 hours, when compared with an equal administration of aminoacids without arginine or aspartate as placebo. Arginine enhances endogenous secretion of the complex HGH-somatomedines.
    Bear in mind the following:

    1) There are many different variations of arginine, some more bioavailable than others - one version of arginine may act in a certain way, differently than others.

    2) Eating a high protein diet you are already taking in large amounts of arginine, along with the other amino acids. There are no studies revealing the potential hormonal effects of eating a complete protein, as opposed to individual amino acids. Taking in individual amino acids, as opposed to a complete protein source (including a full amino acid profile) tends to throw the other amino acids ratios off balance, and does not allow complete digestability of the proteins.

    3) The primary function of hGH is to cause a spike of IGF-1, which is doing the primary work involved, not the GH. Both of these only last for minutes, as opposed to the long range injectable versions which last for hours.

    The supplement industry heavily advertises the fact that amino acids are the legal ergogenic substances of choice for the serious athlete. Commonly quoted studies by Bucci, Hickson, et al.,1 showed that ingestion of 12 grams of L-ornithine increased serum human growth hormone (hGH). Isidori2 did a study that has not yet been duplicated and showed that a 2.4 gm dose of L-arginine and L-lysine increased human growth hormone and insulin. Intravenous studies have demonstrated that arginine3 and ornithine4 also increase human growth hormone and insulin. It should be noted that in all of these studies increases were observed less than two hours after supplementation. Furthermore, there is very little data on the effects of amino acids on normal exercising humans.5
    We will now review three new studies on amino acids and athletes. The first study looked at a group of 11 experienced male weightlifters, with a mean age of 25 years, over a four day period. This was a double-blind, placebo controlled, crossover study. The groups were divided so that one group received 1 gm of L-arginine, 1 gram of L-ornithine, and 1 mg of L-lysine two times per day, at 1 and 9 p.m. The second group ingested 3 gm of placebo capsules two times per day. Diets for both groups were controlled with a caloric intake of 3,500 calories. Each day they worked out for 90 minutes. There was a one month washout period where the weightlifters continued normal training and then the experiment was repeated with the first group receiving placebo and the second group receiving amino acids. On the fourth day of training, lifters were monitored over a 24 hour period with 14 blood samples drawn including tests for growth hormone and insulin.

    The authors stated: "There is no justifiable reason for recommending amino acids to promote muscle growth in male strength athletes."6 They further commented that: 1) The high protein diet athletes were consuming (19 percent) could, in theory, mask the effects of amino acid supplementation for the purposes of endocrine stimulation; and 2) In the two studies where oral amino acid dosing did alter blood serum hGH levels, the subjects took their amino acids in the morning on an empty stomach.
    Fogel, Holm, and Naveri, et al. Low dose amino acid supplementation: No effects on serum human growth hormone and insulin in male weight lifters. Internal Journal of Sport Nutrition. Vol 3, 290-297. 1993.

    In the second study, seven male body builders presented to the lab once per week for a five week period. After an eight hour fast they were given either 2.4 gm of arginine and lysine, 1.1 gm of ornithine with 750 mg of tyrosine, 750 mg of vitamin B6, and 125 mg of vitamin C, or a protein drink which contained 438 mg of arginine, 362 mg of leucine, 312 mg valine, 238 mg of phenylalanine, and 200 mg of isoleucine or placebo. On the final week they received an infusion of growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH). The authors concluded: "There is no apparent reason why these supplements (substances taken in weeks one through three) should be effective as ergogenic aids."7
    Lambert, Hefer, et al. The failure of commercial oral amino acid supplements to increase serum growth hormone concentrations in male body builders. Internal Journal of Sport Nutrition. Vol 3. 1993.
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    In the final study, 28 male weightlifters of the United States Junior National Weightlifting camp volunteered for this double blind, placebo controlled, crossover study. The mean age was 17 years. They had all finished no less than third in their weight classes in national competition. One group of weightlifters consumed lactose capsules while the other group consumed a 2.4 gm serving of a multiple amino acid formula three times per day and a 2.1 gm serving of a branch chain amino acid formula before each workout (9.3 gm per day total). The amount of dietary protein consumed was both high at 1 gm per pound of body weight and moderate at 14-15 percent of total calories consumed. This is because the caloric intake was close to 4000 per day for the athletes tested. Testosterone, cortisol, human growth hormone, and lactate levels were tested with blood drawn three times, at 7 a.m. and then just before and just after each workout. The subjects were tested, trained for seven days, and then were retested. With the results in, the authors concluded: "For this study at least, amino acid supplementation had no effect on physical performance or endocrine responses, and further direct study using other experimental manipulations is warranted."8

    Comment: Of the three studies, the authors' conclusion in this third study was far more reasonable than the first two. I think it is safe to say that if you have an athlete who is consuming a very high protein diet, the addition of low to moderate amounts of amino acids for a short period of time (one week or less) most likely would not make a significant impact on performance. The results of these studies will cause a rare alignment between companies who manufacture and sell amino acids and the FDA which wants to ban them. For very different reasons, neither group will want to attract attention to these outcomes.
    Fry, Kraemer, et al. Endocrine performance responses to higher volume training and amino acid supplementation in elite junior weight lifters. Internal Journal of Sport Nutrition. Vol 3, 306-322. 1993.
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    I have used amino acids as well and saw no difference at all. You are better off taking a complete protein in the form of a meal than you are taking in individual amino acids everyday. The studies above using athletes done by reputable universities and scientists clearly show that.

    Facts and fallacies of purported ergogenic amino acid supplements.

    Williams MH.

    Department of Exercise Science, Physical Education, and Recreation, Old Dominion University, Norfolk, Virginia, USA. mwilliam@odu.edu

    Although current research suggests that individuals involved in either high-intensity resistance or endurance exercise may have an increased need for dietary protein, the available research is either equivocal or negative relative to the ergogenic effects of supplementation with individual amino acids. Although some research suggests that the induction of hyperaminoacidemia via intravenous infusion of a balanced amino acid mixture may induce an increased muscle protein synthesis after exercise, no data support the finding that oral supplementation with amino acids, in contrast to dietary protein, as the source of amino acids is more effective. Some well-controlled studies suggest that aspartate salt supplementation may enhance endurance performance, but other studies do not, meriting additional research. Current data, including results for several well-controlled studies, indicated that supplementation with arginine, ornithine, or lysine, either separately or in combination, does not enhance the effect of exercise stimulation on either hGH or various measures of muscular strength or power in experienced weightlifters. Plasma levels of BCAA and tryptophan may play important roles in the cause of central fatigue during exercise, but the effects of BCAA or tryptophan supplementation do not seem to be effective ergogenics for endurance exercise performance, particularly when compared with carbohydrate supplementation, a more natural choice. Although glutamine supplementation may increase plasma glutamine levels, its effect on enhancement of the immune system and prevention of adverse effects of the overtraining syndrome are equivocal. Glycine, a precursor for creatine, does not seem to possess the ergogenic potential of creatine supplementation. Research with metabolic by-products of amino acid metabolism is in its infancy, and current research findings are equivocal relative to ergogenic applications. In general, physically active individuals are advised to obtain necessary amino acids through consumption of natural, high-quality protein foods.
    Regardless of that, the benefits of growth hormone are inflated at best.

    Soon after the book's publication, many amino acid products were claimed to cause overnight weight loss by increasing the release of growth hormone. So called "growth-hormone releasers" were also marketed to bodybuilders with claims that they would help build muscle. Such claims are unfounded because amino acids taken by mouth do not stimulate growth hormone release. These formulations are based mainly on misinterpreted studies of intravenous arginine, which can increase HGH blood levels for an hour or so. Taking it by mouth has no such effect. The FTC [5-9], and the New York City Department of Consumer Affairs [10] attacked some companies making "growth-hormone release" claims, but these actions had very little effect on the overall marketplace.
    http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...opics/hgh.html
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    That guy from quack watch isnt really unbiased. Its his job to try and poke holes in the arguments of those selling stuff in the supplement industry.

    IF all the studies on oral amino's stimulating GH release are fake, as you are sugesting, then there is a massive amount of it. No one single company ever expect to profit from releasing bogus studies becuase amino's are sold everywhere.

    IMHO, if the supplement wanted to make up the fact that Amino's caused GH release, why would they claim it was a more plausible molecule? I could think of a million other things that could be secreatogogues.

    If you admit that injective arginine *does* work, then why is oral administration so hard for you to believe? One is best, but the other still works, its just a matter of how much GH is significant. Perhaps in some people, the effects are pronounced (me), but in others, they are not(you).
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    Originally posted by Josh8315
    IF all the studies on oral amino's stimulating GH release are fake, as you are sugesting, then there is a massive amount of it. No one single company ever expect to profit from releasing bogus studies becuase amino's are sold everywhere.
    People take individual aminos for reasons other than their supposed GH releasing properties. Such as l-tyrosine, and 5HTP. There are not many other aminos that would be warranted to take alone.

    Originally posted by Josh8315

    IMHO, if the supplement wanted to make up the fact that Amino's caused GH release, why would they claim it was a more plausible molecule? I could think of a million other things that could be secreatogogues.
    You lost me here.

    Originally posted by Josh8315

    If you admit that injective arginine *does* work, then why is oral administration so hard for you to believe? One is best, but the other still works, its just a matter of how much GH is significant. Perhaps in some people, the effects are pronounced (me), but in others, they are not(you).
    Lots of things that work via injection do not work when taken other methods. Take testosterone for example. The same is true with glutamine, and obviously, arginine. When you bypass the digestion track, and hence, the liver - you are getting the complete substance you are injecting, not a broken down version of it.

    Again - I will say that a complete amino acid food has more benefit than taking individual ones.
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  27. #27
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    The problem is that you have posted 2 studies that say it doesnt work (all other ones were using the wrong method), but there are dozens saying it does work.

    Also, you study showed that BASAL levels were unnefected (ie. aread under the curve). Meaning, that the levels did peak, they just reached a lower bottom. If benefits come from this peaked time, then this is a beneficical process.

    Isidori A, et al. A study of growth hormone release in man after *oral* administration of amino acids. Curr Med Res Opin 1981;7:475-81.

    Kasai K, et al. Stimulatory effect of glycine on human growth hormone secretion. Metabolism 1978;27:201-8.

    Welbourne TC. Increased plasma bicarbonate and growth hormone after an *oral glutamine load*. Am J Clin Nutr 1995;61:1058-61.

    I still need to read these studies:

    Essman WB. Clinical evaluation of a human growth hormone secretagogue. Poster Presentation for 6th International Congress on Anti-Aging and Biomedical Technology, 1998 Dec 11-13, Las Vegas, Nev.

    6. Laron Z. Growth hormone secretagogues. Clinical experience and therapeutic potential. Drugs 1995;50(4):595-601.
    later
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  28. #28
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    "Lots of things that work via injection do not work when taken other methods. Take testosterone for example. The same is true with glutamine, and obviously, arginine. When you bypass the digestion track, and hence, the liver - you are getting the complete substance you are injecting, not a broken down version of it."

    I can take oral 1AD and yes, some gets broken down. But some makes it to the blood stream. Just like arginine or glutamine, some will make it into the blood stream.

    Dont make me post studies on oral arginine administration and blood arginine levels. Anyone ever get massive errections from oral arginine? Uh-huh, it gets into the blood stream and NO is plucked from it.
    later
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  29. #29
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    I'll look up your studies later. For now I'll leave you with a quote from Big Cat and another article to read.

    Keep in mind that the studies are important that they are done on athletes and this whole myth about being needed to be taken before bed and on an empty stomach is being perpetuated from somewhere, although I don't believe that is necessarily true since not eating and sleeping for over 8 hours will cause GH release anyway.

    This category of nHGH products uses amino acids as "secretagogues," which stimulate pituitary gland production of HGH. Other proprietary agents are usually part of the powder/tablet mix and give each product a presumed marketing advantage. Although studies show certain amino acids in combination, such as L-lysine and L-arginine, can stimulate pituitary HGH,2-5 no published studies show evidence that these other proprietary factors provide additional pituitary HGH secretion.
    Do noninjectable forms of human growth hormone work?

    Originally posted by Big Cat
    Some random musings as I skim this thread :

    - Tyrosine is indeed a secretagogue for cathecholamines such as L-Dopa. If it wasn't for its physiology as a non-essential amino acid, which makes its proper use mighty difficult, it would be a very worthwhile amino acids.

    - Most amino acids exert some effect on the secretion of GH. Arginine, lysine and ornithine, as well as GABA are simply those that are most highly profiled and documented. But ask yourself what the use is. TWo studies have shown that GH has no effect on building lean mass in the human body. Most trials with actual GH prove that. Few even dilude themselves until they inject at least 6 IU (75 bucks per day) in combination with insulin and steroids. So if real GH doesn't do crap, what makes you think secretagogues will ? They have a use, but because i'm designing a specific product with this concept I won't disclose it at this time. The effect of GH with insulin creates available IGF-1. That's the only reason it exerts muscle building effects then.

    - If you need a secretagogue that raises GH 300-1000%, then I suggest A. eating high protein meals B.Getting 8 hours of sleep a night while waking and going to bed at the same time each night and C) working out and staying active. All three of them increase GH more than any amino acid separately or together.
    I don't neg/infract/ban if you disagree with me in a civil discussion on any topic. I don't claim to be an expert on any subject and can always be proven wrong. But good luck trying ;)

    Come check out my blog! I need some help updating it or switching to another hosting platform. If you can help, please contact me!
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  30. #30
    Member Josh8315's Avatar
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    I know GH may do **** for muscle

    Like I said, I saw a substantial drop in BF
    later
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