New arguments for God.

[Myriad88]

Taken from a friend on my ********, who owns this channel. Supports more of a panentheistic or panpsychism, rather than classical theism. These also double as excellent anti-materialism arguments.

The argument from digital physics and the ontic primacy of mind and semiosis.



THe argument from divinely planted quantum states

[TsarChasm]

Great post. Thanks

[Meatros]

Will have to watch later.

Gotta say, that screenshot of Michu Kaku (sp?) on the front of youtube ain't doing him no favors...

[Myriad88]

Will have to watch later.

Gotta say, that screenshot of Michu Kaku (sp?) on the front of youtube ain't doing him no favors...

indeed. almost looks as if someone just did something to his anus he could not conceive of.

[magog704]

anytime you try to marry mathematics, or for whatever fukkin reason, non-newtonian physics to some epistemology, guaranteed it's bullshiit. it's like these people are trying to obfuscate both cutting edge physics and epistemology and then tell you that it all ties together in a nice little package. in reality they probably can't do either one.

new arguments for god? why would you even care?

[shortslap]

Why does there need to be a new argument for god. This suggests that the old ones are invalid...correct?

[magog704]

Why does there need to be a new argument for god. This suggests that the old ones are invalid...correct?

it doesnt make any sense to me either that an abrahmic god should or should not be compatible with theoretical physics. it's like someone sitting down and trying to hash out how santa claus must surely have an alcubierre drive on his sleigh so that he can travel instantly through the continuum.

when are we allowed to stop talking about pretend shiit?

[BigMass]

ultimately no different than WLC's version of the KCA

[IDrinkBloodLOL]

Blah blah blah bullsh*t nobody cares about, the truth of any matter is 100% independent of anybody's skillful oration or argumentation, either you will die and find out there is a God or something else will happen.

[GreatOldOne]

Blah blah blah bullsh*t nobody cares about, the truth of any matter is 100% independent of anybody's skillful oration or argumentation, either you will die and find out there is a God or something else will happen.

Do you also think the truth of the matter is independent of reasoning regarding the matter?

[IDrinkBloodLOL]

Do you also think the truth of the matter is independent of reasoning regarding the matter?

Yes.

Reason is a human idea; in fact it's the sum total of human ideas that sound sensible to other humans.

Whether or not I believe this way or that way about the behavior of fleas on a dog's ass or about the nature of the universe is entirely irrelevant to those realities: fleas will continue to do whatever they do on a dog's ass and the universe will continue to turn in whatever way it actually turns whether I believe in the correct answer or any of the infinite other possible (wrong) beliefs.

Oh and for everyone who is keeping score, the OP basically boils down to "What if the universe is really just a simulation run on somebody's computer? ConspiracyKeanu.jpg" which, of course, is a complete evasion of the problem of figuring out what the universe is, how it works and why/how it exists. It's just cloaked in enough big sciencey-sounding words that the average reader won't be able to figure out that it's basically on the same level of bullsh*t that you'd see on Ancient Aliens.

[Ashen]

lol'd

[Myriad88]

Yes.

Reason is a human idea; in fact it's the sum total of human ideas that sound sensible to other humans.

Whether or not I believe this way or that way about the behavior of fleas on a dog's ass or about the nature of the universe is entirely irrelevant to those realities: fleas will continue to do whatever they do on a dog's ass and the universe will continue to turn in whatever way it actually turns whether I believe in the correct answer or any of the infinite other possible (wrong) beliefs.

Oh and for everyone who is keeping score, the OP basically boils down to "What if the universe is really just a simulation run on somebody's computer? ConspiracyKeanu.jpg" which, of course, is a complete evasion of the problem of figuring out what the universe is, how it works and why/how it exists. It's just cloaked in enough big sciencey-sounding words that the average reader won't be able to figure out that it's basically on the same level of bullsh*t that you'd see on Ancient Aliens.

all i see here is angry whining. he gives arguments, evidence and reasons as to why you cant have a regress of simulations/computers and ultimately this must be deriving from a mind.

[GreatOldOne]

Yes.

Reason is a human idea; in fact it's the sum total of human ideas that sound sensible to other humans.

Whether or not I believe this way or that way about the behavior of fleas on a dog's ass or about the nature of the universe is entirely irrelevant to those realities: fleas will continue to do whatever they do on a dog's ass and the universe will continue to turn in whatever way it actually turns whether I believe in the correct answer or any of the infinite other possible (wrong) beliefs.

Oh and for everyone who is keeping score, the OP basically boils down to "What if the universe is really just a simulation run on somebody's computer? ConspiracyKeanu.jpg" which, of course, is a complete evasion of the problem of figuring out what the universe is, how it works and why/how it exists. It's just cloaked in enough big sciencey-sounding words that the average reader won't be able to figure out that it's basically on the same level of bullsh*t that you'd see on Ancient Aliens.

You're sewing the seeds for the OP argument, but I don't think you've seen it yet. Skepticism/nihilism showing human reason being irrelevant obliterates the ego, leaving only sensations and appearances...illusions.

This frames you as the recipient of the illusion/simulation (which is basically false/untrue).

I think it's very plausible that the world is a kind of simulation, although this kind of thinking is NOT a 'new' argument for 'God'...because 'God' is not the traditional western idea of the bearded dude with specific things he is interested in seeing happen. It's more of an Eastern concept IMO and whether it is an argument for 'God' is debatable because it doesn't suggest any sort of deity that has ANY practical relevance to your life whatsoever. None, as far as I am aware.

There's also Berkeley and various Hermeticism esoteric traditions in Western thought, and apparently all kinds of representatives of nondualist examples in every major religion, that conceive everything as 'mind' for various reasons including Gnostic Christianity in many senses (who might say Christ was a 'God' of the living, not the dead...which has big ramifications).

[Myriad88]

goo the argument workes toward some sort of mind which is the source of information monism. thats close enough to western conceptions of god.

[datderecreatine]

If there was a god he would be business doing other ****. Go live your life. God is making planets the fuk about ur problems. Go handle that **** urself.




Profit

[GreatOldOne]

goo the argument workes toward some sort of mind which is the source of information monism. thats close enough to western conceptions of god.

Western god has a beard. In the east, there was no beard (or maybe who has a beard?).

[Myriad88]

Western god has a beard. In the east, there was no beard (or maybe who has a beard?).

There is no beard, or father-like resemblance, or sky *******ry in the western god. These are caricatures promulgated by dweebs on the internet, assisted in part by cultural condition arising from the renaissance artwork of michaelangelo.

[jf1]

LULZ!

OPs mental gymnastics never cease to amuse.
You can argue all you want.
Without evidence, your argument is babbling idiocy... no matter how much you may try and convince yourself otherwise.

Inb4 OP presents evidence of Gods existence.

[smfhuidiots]

This is perhaps one of the more pointless ventures of the mind. Utter waste of time. Whatever gives you your mental hard-on, I guess.

[Myriad88]

LULZ!

OPs mental gymnastics never cease to amuse.
You can argue all you want.
Without evidence, your argument is babbling idiocy... no matter how much you may try and convince yourself otherwise.

Inb4 OP presents evidence of Gods existence.

itt: jf1 critiques OP without even watching video. The video presents multiple scientific papers which support his contentions. And I'd bet some good money you have no idea of what they are or what they say.


so, whats your witty rejoinder? "science is gay! LOL!!"

[BobisMighty]

argument presupposes there was a time where noting, no matter what so ever existed. in hinges on your definition of nothing.

[DerpHunter]

itt: jf1 critiques OP without even watching video. The video presents multiple scientific papers which support his contentions. And I'd bet some good money you have no idea of what they are or what they say.


so, whats your witty rejoinder? "science is gay! LOL!!"

Are these scientific papers that are actually about god, and not simply spring boards to your claim that god exists?

[Myriad88]

Are these scientific papers that are actually about god, and not simply spring boards to your claim that god exists?

Science doesnt study "god". There is no discpline of science alongisde physics, chemistry, biology which is called "God" where god-iscists study the behaviour of God with various instruments and develop mathematical models of God along with their control group which is "no-God". I'm not going to belabour this silly point of yours any longer.

The papers the video in the OP are direct evidence of a number of contentions:

-You can no longer fit an objective, observer-independet material world into the picture given to us by quantum physics. Naive realism and materialism are scientifically effete concepts. Read- Science has refuted these concepts, not "mental gymnastics". If you disagree, take the quantum randi challenge and win a nobel prize. So really, you have nowhere left to run unless you are going to start saying science is gay too.

-There are legitimate influences in the universe arising from outside space-time.

-Modelling the universe as digital information or a virtual reality explains much more than a real, physical world.

-There is a crucial mind-dependence in nature. Materialism and realism really clung on until grim death, when legget-garg inequalities were demonstrated.

-You cannot have a regress of these virtual simulacra, best candidate for the origin of semiosis is mind.

Watch the video. you can see clips of the actual scientists saying this e.g Bernard Haisch.

[GreatOldOne]

There is no beard, or father-like resemblance, or sky *******ry in the western god. These are caricatures promulgated by dweebs on the internet, assisted in part by cultural condition arising from the renaissance artwork of michaelangelo.

No Myriad...You're really missing it.

If the Western God is allowed a 'beard', and any kind of noncorpreal personality is a 'beard' (like good, evil, nice, warm...whatever)...each of those is a 'beard' for 'God' (just, different 'colored' ones) those are completely adequate targets for anybody who wants to make fun of it because it is only a projection of your own mental state.

So, outfitted with his beard God of a virtual reality is completely subject to ridicule as being a self-indulgent, sadomasochist torture porn lover who even likes to imagine people in excrutiating detail taking poops not to mention developing a state of mind where they jump off of buildings clutching their children. Completely able to be evil and selfish because it's all about Him...and by that I mean YOU. The critique against an evil God who would not create anything due to selfishness melts because it is finally understood: Nothing was created.

^^^ this is not a critique of the existence of such a state of affairs, just IMO an accurate description of what lies beneath the mask most people place on the 'God' concept so they cannot see the horrible nature of what they are looking at.

[Myriad88]

GOO i was hoping during your absense you'd learn not to ramble or crap on about evil god. perhaps those hopes were misplaced.

[GreatOldOne]

GOO i was hoping during your absense you'd learn not to ramble or crap on about evil god. perhaps those hopes were misplaced.

I did and you have utterly failed to face any concerns I've placed in the thomistic 'evil is beautiful' thread or this one where mental monism inevitably leads to an evil god if you place a 'beard' (aka personality) on him.

Denial is very powerful. In a mental monism picture, it is so powerful it actually makes the universe 'seem to work' and create 'you'. In your case, it sustains the hope of a good God in the face of actually existing on the event horizon of truth realizing as much as you do.

[Myriad88]

I did and you have utterly failed to face any concerns I've placed in the thomistic 'evil is beautiful' thread or this one where mental monism inevitably leads to an evil god if you place a 'beard' (aka personality) on him.

Denial is very powerful. In a mental monism picture, it is so powerful it actually makes the universe 'seem to work' and create 'you'. In your case, it sustains the hope of a good God in the face of actually existing on the event horizon of truth realizing as much as you do.

I'm not going to respond to more o/t rambling about evil god. This is off the top of my head, the 3rd thread of mine where you've come in and brought it up despite it being relevant to nothing but your own interior theatre.....which i might suggest would benefit from some janitorial work.

[Tomohawk92]

for the sake of hypocrisy im gonna have to watch this

[BobisMighty]

i just watched the second video, 1st part of WDPLaM. I don't have to see the **** to step in it. So you're saying the only reason the **** is there is becomes some third party, cosmic consciousness is watching me step on it? the cosmic consciousness determines reality?