I started a huge debate over at MFP...wow!

[fitness4fun]

I am so surprised the crap I caused over there. I posted a thread in the nutrition portion about how calories are not created equal and the back lash was crazy!

I posted because I noticed that so many people were only concerned with staying under their calories and meeting their macros, but the food they were eating was strictly fast food or crappy processed foods. I stated that our bodies utilize calories differently, therefor calories are not created equal. Yes, I know a calorie is a calorie, but nutrition wise, they are different.

Some people hit the roof and got so defensive they became insulting. They wanted the proof, so I said read any health magazine, book, or ask any nutritionist or doctor. Read the preventative measures for any disease that is going around. They all say to eat healthy foods most of the time.

I did get a few people who support what I said, and others who thanked me because they were trying to figure out better choices. I love a good debate, and I sure got one LOL

[thehobbes]

Ugh, that topic always results in a heated argument. It comes down to what your goals are. Mainly though I think people miss the whole point of IIFYM, some people have to be weird and go to such extremes and then crucify everyone else for not following their way of doing things. In the end do whatever the hell you want to do, it's your body, it's your health, there are many different ways for somebody to successfully get from point A to point B. There's no "wrong" way really but whatever you choose to do, don't cram it down other people's throats. Also "healthy food" means VERY different things to different people, especially when you start considering other factors like age, activity level, personal health problems/restrictions/needs, etc. If a person is actually paying attention to their diet and exercising at all that's awesome nowadays, either offer some encouraging words or shut up and let them be.

[fitness4fun]

I know and I have learned. It is what it is. lesson learned here

[Miranda]

I stated that our bodies utilize calories differently, therefor calories are not created equal. Yes, I know a calorie is a calorie, but nutrition wise, they are different. They wanted the proof, so I said read any health magazine, book, or ask any nutritionist or doctor. Read the preventative measures for any disease that is going around. They all say to eat healthy foods most of the time.

different macronutrient have different TEFs and are utilised diffferently, so in that sense a calorie isn't a calorie.

but if by 'different nutrition wise' you mean as in vitamins and minerals, then no. vitamins and minerals contain no calories. as in, your body doesn't utilise broccoli calories different from lollipop calories.

i don't see why you'd judge what someone else eats, though.

[fitness4fun]

You are right that I shouldn't worry about what others eat and I truly didn't mean to judge in a hurtful way. I have just gotten so much great feedback here and I wanted to share. That won't happen again though, and I do feel bad

[schnauzers]

This is sort of related to your OP:

http://greatist.com/health/yoni-free...count-calories

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...e=UTF8#APP0001

[rockangel]

That is another reason why I very much dislike that site. Most of the people are on 1200 cals or lower and are convinced that MFP is 'god' and they can not fathom that science may actually have something different to say than MFP. They are unwilling to listen to anything other than what is on that site. Almost cultish... I stopped posting there long ago cause there is no point in trying to help people there.

[fitness4fun]

That is another reason why I very much dislike that site. Most of the people are on 1200 cals or lower and are convinced that MFP is 'god' and they can not fathom that science may actually have something different to say than MFP. They are unwilling to listen to anything other than what is on that site. Almost cultish... I stopped posting there long ago cause there is no point in trying to help people there.

I am finding that out slowly. I was feeling guilty when I upped my calories to 1700, even though I am lifting and doing cardio. No one else had those calories and at first I was feel like a piggy. I was glad my weight dropped a bit after doing that

Oh, I love the bottom of your signature about reserving the full right to misspell...that is so me!!

[fitness4fun]

This is sort of related to your OP:

http://greatist.com/health/yoni-free...count-calories

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...e=UTF8#APP0001

Great links!

[berrywood]

OP you shouldn't feel bad for eating 1700. I'm shocked when I see people eating under 1000 calories. I don't know how they function.

[thehobbes]

That is another reason why I very much dislike that site. Most of the people are on 1200 cals or lower and are convinced that MFP is 'god' and they can not fathom that science may actually have something different to say than MFP. They are unwilling to listen to anything other than what is on that site. Almost cultish... I stopped posting there long ago cause there is no point in trying to help people there.

Whoa! But who was activity level? That's nuts, I eat 3500/day srs, apparently that's not a lifting site or anything, never heard of it.

[fitness4fun]

Whoa! But who was activity level? That's nuts, I eat 3500/day srs, apparently that's not a lifting site or anything, never heard of it.

It's a site that helps you keep track of calories. Even men are eating only 1200 calories!! These people kill themselves with cardio and keep calories so low! I'm not saying weights is the only thing or the right thing, but balance for sure is.

I'm don't feel bad eating 1700 calories anymore. I've never felt more alive and healthy as I do now. I have noticed that I'm starting to get hungry even after I hit my 1700 and one time I did eat 1900 and woke up feeling just fine

I'm lifting heavier, so I know I need to add more calories even still.

[sciosarah]

I guess this has been debated a hundred thousand times, but the problem I see with calorie counting is that it restricts you to calorie counting. It's useful in the sense that it can give you a realistic idea of the energy that you're taking in when you eat a given food, but once you get beyond that, it's up to the individual to make the choice to eat the smartest foods.

For example, say I want to eat a meal that's 1000 calories before bed to fuel training tomorrow morning. Ok, I can go to Mcdonald's and order a Big Mac with fries and a coke. Let's imagine that's 1000 calories (I have no idea what the calorie content of most fast foods is). This meal has protein, carbs, and fat - all the things I need to move and grow. But what are some factors that I know I can associate with eating this meal?

1. I'll probably spend the rest of the night ****ting. Why? Because I just consumed a massive amount of mystery fat, including trans, all of which is as likely to be totally rancid as not. Rancid or otherwise, my body is not accustomed to consuming this much fat in one sitting, and it's probably going to flush it out, along with a whole lot of other things I've eaten. What a waste.

2. I'm going to sugar crash. Thanks to the insane amount of liquid sugar I just consumed, I'm going to feel energized for all of about a half an hour. Once that sugar wears off (since it is a simple sugar, it will be used quickly, instead of broken down slowly over time), I will crash. I will probably be tired, have a headache, feel nauseous, anxious, or all of the above. I probably won't sleep properly.

3. I'm going to be dehydrated. Mmm, huge amounts of salt. There's nothing like being dehydrated to turn a potentially great work-out into a shaky, nauseous (again!), frustrating experience. I will probably question why I am mysteriously "weaker", and feel like I have failed. I will probably have interrupted sleep when I wake up early with dry-mouth.

4. I'm going to eat again. My body is going to process this meal of simple sugars and loads of fat really quickly. When it does, I'm going to be really hungry again. If I am a person trying to lose weight, it's very likely I have poor impulse control. I'm going to eat again, which will probably put me over my daily calories, which will make me feel guilty, and wonder why I'm so bad at controlling myself. I'll think I have "no will power", and be more likely to enter into a cycle of repeating this behaviour because I feel powerless.

The end.

Now here's the one where I eat a steak, a pile of brown rice, and a serving of vegetables. Let's call the steak medium-fatty. I steamed the rice and put a little butter on it and the vegetables. This meal contains protein, complex carbohydrates, and animal fats.

1. I'm going to eat all this food. Worst case scenario, I get so full from the rice and fibrous veggies that I can't finish eating and I don't take in as many calories as I intended to.

2. I'll probably sleep for a long time. Eating a lot of food makes me sleepy.

3. I'm going to store a lot of this energy as glycogen, fat, and muscle mass. I am going to have energy for my work-out tomorrow. It will probably be a good quality session, thanks to meeting all my macro requirements, sleeping so well, and that refreshing healthy poop I had in the morning thanks to all the fiber I ate.

4. I will probably keep doing this over and over again, since every time I do, I receive a reward (I like rewards) - success in my training and goals, feeling satiated, accomplished, well-rested, etc.

You're welcome, society.

[fitness4fun]

I guess this has been debated a hundred thousand times, but the problem I see with calorie counting is that it restricts you to calorie counting. It's useful in the sense that it can give you a realistic idea of the energy that you're taking in when you eat a given food, but once you get beyond that, it's up to the individual to make the choice to eat the smartest foods.

For example, say I want to eat a meal that's 1000 calories before bed to fuel training tomorrow morning. Ok, I can go to Mcdonald's and order a Big Mac with fries and a coke. Let's imagine that's 1000 calories (I have no idea what the calorie content of most fast foods is). This meal has protein, carbs, and fat - all the things I need to move and grow. But what are some factors that I know I can associate with eating this meal?

1. I'll probably spend the rest of the night ****ting. Why? Because I just consumed a massive amount of mystery fat, including trans, all of which is as likely to be totally rancid as not. Rancid or otherwise, my body is not accustomed to consuming this much fat in one sitting, and it's probably going to flush it out, along with a whole lot of other things I've eaten. What a waste.

2. I'm going to sugar crash. Thanks to the insane amount of liquid sugar I just consumed, I'm going to feel energized for all of about a half an hour. Once that sugar wears off (since it is a simple sugar, it will be used quickly, instead of broken down slowly over time), I will crash. I will probably be tired, have a headache, feel nauseous, anxious, or all of the above. I probably won't sleep properly.

3. I'm going to be dehydrated. Mmm, huge amounts of salt. There's nothing like being dehydrated to turn a potentially great work-out into a shaky, nauseous (again!), frustrating experience. I will probably question why I am mysteriously "weaker", and feel like I have failed. I will probably have interrupted sleep when I wake up early with dry-mouth.

4. I'm going to eat again. My body is going to process this meal of simple sugars and loads of fat really quickly. When it does, I'm going to be really hungry again. If I am a person trying to lose weight, it's very likely I have poor impulse control. I'm going to eat again, which will probably put me over my daily calories, which will make me feel guilty, and wonder why I'm so bad at controlling myself. I'll think I have "no will power", and be more likely to enter into a cycle of repeating this behaviour because I feel powerless.

The end.

Now here's the one where I eat a steak, a pile of brown rice, and a serving of vegetables. Let's call the steak medium-fatty. I steamed the rice and put a little butter on it and the vegetables. This meal contains protein, complex carbohydrates, and animal fats.

1. I'm going to eat all this food. Worst case scenario, I get so full from the rice and fibrous veggies that I can't finish eating and I don't take in as many calories as I intended to.

2. I'll probably sleep for a long time. Eating a lot of food makes me sleepy.

3. I'm going to store a lot of this energy as glycogen, fat, and muscle mass. I am going to have energy for my work-out tomorrow. It will probably be a good quality session, thanks to meeting all my macro requirements, sleeping so well, and that refreshing healthy poop I had in the morning thanks to all the fiber I ate.

4. I will probably keep doing this over and over again, since every time I do, I receive a reward (I like rewards) - success in my training and goals, feeling satiated, accomplished, well-rested, etc.

You're welcome, society.

You nailed it on the head!! Awesome response and wow!!

[Miranda]

For example, say I want to eat a meal that's 1000 calories before bed to fuel training tomorrow morning. Ok, I can go to Mcdonald's and order a Big Mac with fries and a coke. Let's imagine that's 1000 calories (I have no idea what the calorie content of most fast foods is). This meal has protein, carbs, and fat - all the things I need to move and grow. But what are some factors that I know I can associate with eating this meal?

1. I'll probably spend the rest of the night ****ting. Why? Because I just consumed a massive amount of mystery fat, including trans, all of which is as likely to be totally rancid as not. Rancid or otherwise, my body is not accustomed to consuming this much fat in one sitting, and it's probably going to flush it out, along with a whole lot of other things I've eaten. What a waste.

2. m going to sugar crash. Thanks to the insane amount of liquid sugar I just consumed, I'm going to feel energized for all of about a half an hour. Once that sugar wears off (since it is a simple sugar, it will be used quickly, instead of broken down slowly over time), I will crash. I will probably be tired, have a headache, feel nauseous, anxious, or all of the above. I probably won't sleep properly.

3. I'm going to be dehydrated. Mmm, huge amounts of salt. There's nothing like being dehydrated to turn a potentially great work-out into a shaky, nauseous (again!), frustrating experience. I will probably question why I am mysteriously "weaker", and feel like I have failed. I will probably have interrupted sleep when I wake up early with dry-mouth.

what you wrote isn't correct and some of it contradicts itself.

if you 'flushed out' fat or other nutrients (which you don't) from the meal, your total calories would be less than stated. so i don't see how you'd worry about eating a shedload of calories in one sitting

a mixed meal is going to slower overall digestion rate so you're less likely to crash due to consuming a lot of sugar than if you drank the coke on it's own. i don't see why you wouldn't store the sugar from a coke as glycogen, or the protein in your muscles, either. and salt doesn't dehydrate you.

[geek23ka]

This is sort of related to your OP:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...e=UTF8#APP0001

thanks for this

[BleachedPink]

I completely agree with the OP and I don't understand how people still believe otherwise. How anyone can say it doesn't matter what you eat? All science and common sense says otherwise.

Even though the body uses calories the same for energy, you aren't going to get the proper nutrients, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, omega 3's, etc by eating junk instead of whole healthy foods. All that nice healthy stuff goes to keeping you looking young, skin young, organs young. Not to mention cancer fighting phytochemicals in leafy green like kale and broccoli, etc. Most disease of the body is either a deficiency or a surplus of something in the cells.

What's the point in bodybuilding if your life is cut short by toxins in the processed food you eat? Or looking 10 years older because you smoke and eat ****ty when you could have looked 10 years younger if you avoided all that toxic stuff.

[sciosarah]

what you wrote isn't correct and some of it contradicts itself.

if you 'flushed out' fat or other nutrients (which you don't) from the meal, your total calories would be less than stated. so i don't see how you'd worry about eating a shedload of calories in one sitting

a mixed meal is going to slower overall digestion rate so you're less likely to crash due to consuming a lot of sugar than if you drank the coke on it's own. i don't see why you wouldn't store the sugar from a coke as glycogen, or the protein in your muscles, either. and salt doesn't dehydrate you.

I'm not going to claim to be a nutritionist or to have an all-encompassing knowledge of healthy eating, but I will defend what I said. When you eat a huge amount of fat in one sitting, it doesn't all get digested. Your body can only handle so much at once. You do, in fact, crap it out, which is why after eating this kind of food you have "oily" bowel movements. Sometimes really, really oily bowel movements. If you have a citation for why this is false, I'd love to see it, because I don't have one for why it is true.

I'm not saying nothing is digested, I'm certainly not saying that the protein and carbs (and a percentage of the fat) will not be used by your body in the same way that it is used from other sources. I'm not trying to claim that you just poop out all the good stuff. What I'm saying is that the bad outweighs the good.

If I retained anything from my first year bio course, the reason eating a lot of salt makes you feel dehydrated is because it makes you retain water, which interrupts the feedback loop which would normally tell you to drink the water your body needs. It does not dehydrate you by somehow sucking out water, it dehydrates you by sending you the message that you don't need to hydrate when you actually do (Again...I could be completely wrong). I understand that the body requires salt and that when exercising you should actually be sure to get enough salt. The average person doesn't understand this, however, and the best of us can ignore the need to drink even when we feel thirsty.

I also didn't say that the sugars wouldn't be stored as glycogen, I said that they would be digested quickly (they will be). Being more clear, I'm implying that you will feel satiated for a shorter period of time, you'll get hungrier faster, eat more, and thus gain weight. I don't need to justify this - the world is currently doing it for me.

The fact that it's a "mixed meal" doesn't mean that I won't sugar crash. As a formerly obese person, this has happened to me too many times. The only complex carb in the meal is the fries, and that is not enough to keep you feeling full, energized, and normal.

Eating garbage makes me feel like garbage. The above are the reasons why.

e: I'm also kind of surprised as to why you are even arguing that I "shouldn't worry" about eating a ton of calories in a sitting when chowing down on Mcdonald's, regardless of whether or not I have an oily poop afterwards. I think you already know that it's a bad decision.

double e: double edit: And now that I think about it, the final process in digestion involves absorbing the last of the water and nutrients before you poop. If you have diarrhea, everything is passed quickly, and this (important) process doesn't happen. So not only do you definitely lose out on nutrients, but you are even more likely to become dehydrated, because you just pooped water you would have otherwise used. This much I actually know to be absolutely factual, I just don't remember which organ the process occurs in.

[Miranda]

I'm not going to claim to be a nutritionist or to have an all-encompassing knowledge of healthy eating, but I will defend what I said. When you eat a huge amount of fat in one sitting, it doesn't all get digested. Your body can only handle so much at once. You do, in fact, crap it out, which is why after eating this kind of food you have "oily" bowel movements. Sometimes really, really oily bowel movements.

yes if you acutely consume massive amounts of fat/calories (like in the realm of 5,000-10,000 calories) at once. but a big mac + fries + coke only has ~1,200 calories and 50 grams of fat.

i edited it out of my reply, because in absolute terms it's not going to make or break you. say you pooped out ~100 calories worth of fat (not likely, but hey). i'd be more concerned about the remaining 1,100.

the body adjusts to what you feed it. if you normally eat little fat, then of course a high-fat (= high-calorie) meal can be poorly absorbed. but the more fat you habitually consume, the more you upregulate its digestion and absorption.

i wouldn't attribute lethargy or feeling like sht to the fat content of the meal per se. it's more due to eating a shedload of calories at once. a large meal simply takes a long time to digest and draws a lot of blood to the stomach.

given fat is very energy dense, it's a lot easier to overconsume calories in the form of high-fat food than low-fat food if you're not careful. that 'careful' is what a lot of people would do well to exercise more often.

'm also kind of surprised as to why you are even arguing that I "shouldn't worry" about eating a ton of calories in a sitting when chowing down on Mcdonald's, regardless of whether or not I have an oily poop afterwards. I think you already know that it's a bad decision.

well, if you pooped out large amounts of fat, then fast food would be an excellent fat loss choice, because it'd actually deliver a lot less calories than listed on the box

the reason eating a lot of salt makes you feel dehydrated is because it makes you retain water, which interrupts the feedback loop which would normally tell you to drink the water your body needs. It does not dehydrate you by somehow sucking out water, it dehydrates you by sending you the message that you don't need to hydrate when you actually do. The average person doesn't understand this, however, and the best of us can ignore the need to drink even when we feel thirsty.

electrolyte swings can cause water retention, not salt itself. it all depends on what your sodium intake is. once you accustom to a certain level, you're fine. a mcd meal has a lot of sodium, yes, but if you habitually consume a lot of the stuff in a day, it's not going to negatively affect you.

when you retain water it means it's not absorbed properly. this causes you to want to drink more in order to dilute the sodium content and pee it out. the fact that a person won't drink water when they feel thirsty doesn't mean consuming salt is 'bad'. it means the person is an idiot imo.

at the end of the day, one meal isn't going to kill you. it's a lot more about how you balance it with the rest.

[fitness4fun]

I never concern myself with sodium. I figure a gallon of water or more will flush out the excess sodium

[sciosarah]

yes if you acutely consume massive amounts of fat/calories (like in the realm of 5,000-10,000 calories) at once. but a big mac + fries + coke only has ~1,200 calories[/url] and 50 grams of fat.

i edited it out of my reply, because in absolute terms it's not going to make or break you. say you pooped out ~100 calories worth of fat (not likely, but hey). i'd be more concerned about the remaining 1,100.

the body adjusts to what you feed it. if you normally eat little fat, then of course a high-fat (= high-calorie) meal can be poorly absorbed. but the more fat you habitually consume, the more you upregulate its digestion and absorption.

i wouldn't attribute lethargy or feeling like sht to the fat content of the meal per se. it's more due to eating a shedload of calories at once. a large meal simply takes a long time to digest and draws a lot of blood to the stomach.

given fat is very energy dense, it's a lot easier to overconsume calories in the form of high-fat food than low-fat food if you're not careful. that 'careful' is what a lot of people would do well to exercise more often.



well, if you pooped out large amounts of fat, then fast food would be an excellent fat loss choice, because it'd actually deliver a lot less calories than listed on the box



electrolyte swings can cause water retention, not salt itself. it all depends on what your sodium intake is. once you accustom to a certain level, you're fine. a mcd meal has a lot of sodium, yes, but if you habitually consume a lot of the stuff in a day, it's not going to negatively affect you.

when you retain water it means it's not absorbed properly. this causes you to want to drink more in order to dilute the sodium content and pee it out. the fact that a person won't drink water when they feel thirsty doesn't mean consuming salt is 'bad'. it means the person is an idiot imo.

at the end of the day, one meal isn't going to kill you. it's a lot more about how you balance it with the rest.

So I guess a big part of what we're talking about here is the fact that it isn't one meal, it's a lifestyle of eating junk "within so many calories" that the people on this website are trying to get away with. How many people who eat like this do you think are actually successful at reducing their calories to 1200 every day long enough to lose their desired amount of weight? Do you think this is an ideal method for weight loss, and if so, how many of these people take the weight off and keep it off?

This choice of just cutting calories without learning anything about what you're eating or how to eat properly does not teach anyone how to lose weight and keep it off. It doesn't teach people how to take care of themselves by learning to cook, learning to shop for the right foods, and manage their health and weight.

You can't live like this and be healthy, there just isn't an argument for it. Some people can keep it up for a long time, sure, there are the exceptions to the rule who can eat loads of fast food and never get fat. But the people losing weight on MFP are probably fat.

Fast food is bad for you and if you, like most of the world, can't control yourself when confronted it with it, it will destroy your health. We all know this and we are watching it happen around us every day. Nobody gets obese from eating too much sweet potato and brown rice. Nobody gets obese from overindulging in lean meats and veggies. Why? These foods aren't designed by corporations to be the most desirable thing in your life, they're just food.

[Miranda]

How many people who eat like this do you think are actually successful at reducing their calories to 1200 every day long enough to lose their desired amount of weight? Do you think this is an ideal method for weight loss, and if so, how many of these people take the weight off and keep it off?

This choice of just cutting calories without learning anything about what you're eating or how to eat properly does not teach anyone how to lose weight and keep it off. It doesn't teach people how to take care of themselves by learning to cook, learning to shop for the right foods, and manage their health and weight.

You can't live like this and be healthy, there just isn't an argument for it. Some people can keep it up for a long time, sure, there are the exceptions to the rule who can eat loads of fast food and never get fat. But the people losing weight on MFP are probably fat.

Fast food is bad for you and if you, like most of the world, can't control yourself when confronted it with it, it will destroy your health. We all know this and we are watching it happen around us every day. Nobody gets obese from eating too much sweet potato and brown rice. Nobody gets obese from overindulging in lean meats and veggies. Why? These foods aren't designed by corporations to be the most desirable thing in your life, they're just food.

hum? no-one's saying that eating mcdonald's is 'ideal'. well, apart from my comment apparently. i just can't wrap my head around how pooping out massive amounts of fat calories would be terrible if you want decreased calorie intake

long-term fat loss for the obese is first and foremost about lifestyle change. i'm not saying that people shouldn't make better food choices. but people aren't overweight because they eat junk food per se. people are overweight because they eat too many calories for a sedentary lifestyle.

you won't lose fat if you don't create an energy deficit. it doesn't matter where those calories come from, or how they digest because the latter alters the output bit so the deficit stays the same. what matters is that the net total adds up to less than you burn.

fast food tends to be quite dense in calories (unless you sht them out, of course ). if you consume a lot of junk food on a regular basis, you're at a larger risk of overconsuming calories.

but you don't have to, because you can learn about calories and portion control and understand what a given high-calorie meal MEANS relative to your desired daily calorie, macro-, micronutrient and fibre intake. then you can make an informed choice.

calories are way, way, way more important than macronutrients, or food sources. thinking that that fast food is is 'bad for you' is not learning about nutrition. it's attributing anthropomorphic qualities to inanimate matter that yields energy at different densities per unit.

[dreahere]

the fact that a person won't drink water when they feel thirsty doesn't mean consuming salt is 'bad'. it means the person is an idiot imo.

I literally LOL'd.

So I guess a big part of what we're talking about here is the fact that it isn't one meal, it's a lifestyle of eating junk "within so many calories" that the people on this website are trying to get away with. How many people who eat like this do you think are actually successful at reducing their calories to 1200 every day long enough to lose their desired amount of weight? Do you think this is an ideal method for weight loss, and if so, how many of these people take the weight off and keep it off?

Actually, IMO, the problem is that these people are so sedentary that they need (or think they need) to eat 1200 calories a day to lose weight. If your cutting calories are more like 1800 or over, you can easily fit in a couple cookies, some fries, a beer, etc along with healthy nutrient dense foods. Best of both worlds. It's the dieting people who go overboard with the clean eating who are more probably doomed to fail. You can only eat nothing but chicken breast, broccoli, and brown rice for so long before you have to cut a bitch. Or, okay, binge.

[heidismommy]

I literally LOL'd.



Actually, IMO, the problem is that these people are so sedentary that they need (or think they need) to eat 1200 calories a day to lose weight. If your cutting calories are more like 1800 or over, you can easily fit in a couple cookies, some fries, a beer, etc along with healthy nutrient dense foods. Best of both worlds. It's the dieting people who go overboard with the clean eating who are more probably doomed to fail. You can only eat nothing but chicken breast, broccoli, and brown rice for so long before you have to cut a bitch. Or, okay, binge.

So true, well said!

[schnauzers]

thanks for this

NP.

You can only eat nothing but chicken breast, broccoli, and brown rice for so long before you have to cut a bitch. Or, okay, binge.

Now *I* literally LOL'ed.

[fitness4fun]

I literally LOL'd.



Actually, IMO, the problem is that these people are so sedentary that they need (or think they need) to eat 1200 calories a day to lose weight. If your cutting calories are more like 1800 or over, you can easily fit in a couple cookies, some fries, a beer, etc along with healthy nutrient dense foods. Best of both worlds. It's the dieting people who go overboard with the clean eating who are more probably doomed to fail. You can only eat nothing but chicken breast, broccoli, and brown rice for so long before you have to cut a bitch. Or, okay, binge.

LOL you are so right! Every now and again I will give myself a treat, but only if I truly want it. I'm saving myself though for my anniversary weekend coming up in October, so it's clean eating every day 'till then Moderation is key

[rockangel]

I literally LOL'd.



Actually, IMO, the problem is that these people are so sedentary that they need (or think they need) to eat 1200 calories a day to lose weight. If your cutting calories are more like 1800 or over, you can easily fit in a couple cookies, some fries, a beer, etc along with healthy nutrient dense foods. Best of both worlds. It's the dieting people who go overboard with the clean eating who are more probably doomed to fail. You can only eat nothing but chicken breast, broccoli, and brown rice for so long before you have to cut a bitch. Or, okay, binge.

I think the problem is more that the site seems to assign everyone the 1200 cals without apparent adjustments for height,weight, age or activity. For instance, when i was on there i was assigned 1200 cals a day, my friend who started it with me at the time, was 5'8 and 300 pounds was also assigned the 1200 cal limit. She is still around 300 pounds today as she didnt last long on those cals.

My other friend who started it a few weeks ago, yet again on the 1200 cal limit, has decided to "drink green smoothies and water" as her diet. She stays within her 1200 cal a day limit by eating pretty much nothing. She is 5'6 and last post on ******** had her at 143 (after a big binge, surprise surprise).

[heidismommy]

LOL you are so right! Every now and again I will give myself a treat, but only if I truly want it. I'm saving myself though for my anniversary weekend coming up in October, so it's clean eating every day 'till then Moderation is key

I think everyone is different with regards to how often they consider having treats to be "too much". I have treats daily and it is very easy to do that and still fit calories and macros. I go out to eat once or twice a week and eat what I want. I order pizza once a week. When your maintenance calories are high, it is really easy to fit splurges in and still get lots of healthy stuff too. It is harder for a person who is trying to cut, but not impossible to fit splurges in (just perhaps not as often since splurges tend to be higher in calories). Now I'm trying to bulk and I wouldn't be able to do eat if I had to eat 100% clean (I'd lose my appetite out of boredom, lol). Anyway, my diet isn't "ideal", but I am super healthy, feel awesome, and have finally found a balance that works for me. My happy place may not be the same as yours and that is okay .

Anyway, enjoy your anniversary weekend that is coming up. Mine is in October too!

[fitness4fun]

I think everyone is different with regards to how often they consider having treats to be "too much". I have treats daily and it is very easy to do that and still fit calories and macros. I go out to eat once or twice a week and eat what I want. I order pizza once a week. When your maintenance calories are high, it is really easy to fit splurges in and still get lots of healthy stuff too. It is harder for a person who is trying to cut, but not impossible to fit splurges in (just perhaps not as often since splurges tend to be higher in calories). Now I'm trying to bulk and I wouldn't be able to do eat if I had to eat 100% clean (I'd lose my appetite out of boredom, lol). Anyway, my diet isn't "ideal", but I am super healthy, feel awesome, and have finally found a balance that works for me. My happy place may not be the same as yours and that is okay .

Anyway, enjoy your anniversary weekend that is coming up. Mine is in October too!

I agree, but when your trying to lose weight, to start off the treats need to be limited at first. I think old habits should be broken first and then once you learn portions and nutrient differences, those treats become just that. When we are maintaining our weight, that is a different story...IMO

[fitness4fun]

I think the problem is more that the site seems to assign everyone the 1200 cals without apparent adjustments for height,weight, age or activity. For instance, when i was on there i was assigned 1200 cals a day, my friend who started it with me at the time, was 5'8 and 300 pounds was also assigned the 1200 cal limit. She is still around 300 pounds today as she didnt last long on those cals.

My other friend who started it a few weeks ago, yet again on the 1200 cal limit, has decided to "drink green smoothies and water" as her diet. She stays within her 1200 cal a day limit by eating pretty much nothing. She is 5'6 and last post on ******** had her at 143 (after a big binge, surprise surprise).

You aren't wrong about that. Even guys are marked as 1200-1600! Come on now, that is crazy!! This is how people lose muscle fast and then that just slows the metabolism even more.