CBL (carb back loading) question.

[Anthony21]

Hey guys hope all is well with all you.

I decided i'm going to try out CBL and actually starting my prep phase this morning (sipping that there coffee). I'm the type to track my calories and total caloric intake and what not. So my question is for the prep phase should I aim to get in as many calories as I was prior to starting CBL. Instead this time i'll have to eat a chit ton of protein and fat to get to that caloric level.

Or should I aim for 1g/lb of body weight for protein and just eat a chit ton of fat to supplement the absence of carbs?

I did read the book and apologize if this has been asked. I definitely appreciate the help guys. Stay Stronger.

[paulosantos0922]

I did CBL for a while and if you want the best results, I would continue to track the calories. It isn't a miracle diet like it is made out to be. If your goal is to lose weight, eat slightly under your maintenance.

Personally, the thing I learned from it was the post workout nutrition of carbs and proteins. Everything else is all bull****.

[Anthony21]

I did CBL for a while and if you want the best results, I would continue to track the calories. It isn't a miracle diet like it is made out to be. If your goal is to lose weight, eat slightly under your maintenance.

Personally, the thing I learned from it was the post workout nutrition of carbs and proteins. Everything else is all bull****.

Hey man thanks for the response.

So I was getting like 3,500 cals in so that's going to be a lot of protein and fat. My concern is that it's going to get expensive having to take in that much protein and fats during the prep phase and low carb periods and low carb days.

How did you like CBL personally?

[paulosantos0922]

Hey man thanks for the response.

So I was getting like 3,500 cals in so that's going to be a lot of protein and fat. My concern is that it's going to get expensive having to take in that much protein and fats during the prep phase and low carb periods and low carb days.

How did you like CBL personally?

Honestly, looking back, it was all a waste of time. I got the same results by doing what I'm doing now. If I want to gain weight, I just eat slightly above maintenance. If I want to lose weight, I do the opposite.

[fitlover]

OP, I would try to make up most of the calories with fats. There is not much reason to go over 1g per lb. of BW with protein when you are going low carb, since the excess will just turn into an expensive carbohydrate, so to speak.

Aim for 1g per lb. (could get away with a little less), and eat a ton of fat.

How many days are you carbing up? How much fat do you have to lose?

[Anthony21]

Honestly, looking back, it was all a waste of time. I got the same results by doing what I'm doing now. If I want to gain weight, I just eat slightly above maintenance. If I want to lose weight, I do the opposite.

Definitely appreciate the honesty bro. I just don't want to assume that it's not going to work you know? I want to try it out since i've had the e-book for like ever haha and tried the prep phase before but pussed out haha. This time I just want to commit and see what happens. Worst case scenario is that it doesn't work and I just go back to the way I was eating.

OP, I would try to make up most of the calories with fats. There is not much reason to go over 1g per lb. of BW with protein when you are going low carb, since the excess will just turn into an expensive carbohydrate, so to speak.

Aim for 1g per lb. (could get away with a little less), and eat a ton of fat.

How many days are you carbing up? How much fat do you have to lose?

Hey Fit thanks for chiming in with your knowledge definitely appreciate that. That sounds better in regards to the protein intake and just downing fats.

The way my schedule will be and feel free to correct me if I have it set up wrong is as followed. Of course this is after the prep phase I started today.

Monday: AM training *no back load
Tuesday: Rest day *Will back load in the evening
Wednesday: AM training *Back load in the evening
Thursday: AM training *No back load
Friday: Rest day/low carb day
Saturday: Rest day *Back load in the evening
Sunday: AM training *Back load in the evening

So i'll be back loading 4x a week. I mean i know i'm well over 15% BF. Like most of us guys I hold all my weight in my belly and love handles lol

[paulosantos0922]

Anthony, on your backload days, if you weigh 217, I'd start with about 3250 calories. Do 1 GR of protein per LB and then some fats and the rest carbs (approximately 325 Gr of carbs). On your training days, just have some proteins and carbs post workout and ULC the rest of the day and stay well under 3250 calories if your goal is to lose fat. All you are doing is cycling your carbs and tricking yourself in eating under your maintenance.

Also, you are backloading the night before. That's still a big debate as some people backload on the day that they train. I tried both and I saw nothing different.

[Anthony21]

Anthony, on your backload days, if you weigh 217, I'd start with about 3250 calories. Do 1 GR of protein per LB and then some fats and the rest carbs (approximately 325 Gr of carbs). On your training days, just have some proteins and carbs post workout and ULC the rest of the day and stay well under 3250 calories if your goal is to lose fat. All you are doing is cycling your carbs and tricking yourself in eating under your maintenance.

Also, you are backloading the night before. That's still a big debate as some people backload on the day that they train. I tried both and I saw nothing different.

Solid info bro!

So the lay out I have set up above looks solid i'm assuming? So on the days I train in the AM have some carbs post workout? I'm not doing all the supplementation he mentions with the shakes and sh!t so i'm assuming some bananas or pancakes with eggs and bacon will suffice then back load that evening since i'll be training the following morning?

[paulosantos0922]

Solid info bro!

So the lay out I have set up above looks solid i'm assuming? So on the days I train in the AM have some carbs post workout? I'm not doing all the supplementation he mentions with the shakes and sh!t so i'm assuming some bananas or pancakes with eggs and bacon will suffice then back load that evening since i'll be training the following morning?

Post workout, all you need is something like protein powder, creatine, and 1-2 bananas. You don't need to eat any fats.

[fitlover]

Hey Fit thanks for chiming in with your knowledge definitely appreciate that. That sounds better in regards to the protein intake and just downing fats.

The way my schedule will be and feel free to correct me if I have it set up wrong is as followed. Of course this is after the prep phase I started today.

Monday: AM training *no back load
Tuesday: Rest day *Will back load in the evening
Wednesday: AM training *Back load in the evening
Thursday: AM training *No back load
Friday: Rest day/low carb day
Saturday: Rest day *Back load in the evening
Sunday: AM training *Back load in the evening

So i'll be back loading 4x a week. I mean i know i'm well over 15% BF. Like most of us guys I hold all my weight in my belly and love handles lol

Backloading when you train in the morning is tricky. I say just take some BCAA's before/during your training if possible, and have protein PWO. No need for carbs after training so long as you are still eating something.

If you have a lot of fat to lose, I would say to cut it down to back-loading 3x per week. But it depends on your goals.

The best thing to do is start on the higher end (or what you normally eat) and then slowly scale back. I would also experiment with the days that you are back-loading. I prefer to back-load on days off so that my energy is solid for training the next day (especially in the AM).

Since this is not a ketogenic diet, I would not worry about getting too depleted or anything. Just be consistent.

[Anthony21]

Post workout, all you need is something like protein powder, creatine, and 1-2 bananas. You don't need to eat any fats.

Right on

Backloading when you train in the morning is tricky. I say just take some BCAA's before/during your training if possible, and have protein PWO. No need for carbs after training so long as you are still eating something.

If you have a lot of fat to lose, I would say to cut it down to back-loading 3x per week. But it depends on your goals.

The best thing to do is start on the higher end (or what you normally eat) and then slowly scale back. I would also experiment with the days that you are back-loading. I prefer to back-load on days off so that my energy is solid for training the next day (especially in the AM).

Since this is not a ketogenic diet, I would not worry about getting too depleted or anything. Just be consistent.

So the lay out I have would you say that's set up correct? I don't have an extreme of amount of fat to lose at all.

[fitlover]

Right on



So the lay out I have would you say that's set up correct? I don't have an extreme of amount of fat to lose at all.

In that case, go for it! It is largely experimental. I'm sure you'll do well Just keep track of your energy levels!

[Anthony21]

In that case, go for it! It is largely experimental. I'm sure you'll do well Just keep track of your energy levels!

That's what it definitely seems like in regards to the ground work is laid out but it takes some experimenting and tweaks. I'll go with the layout I mentioned up above keeping carbs on loading days around the 300+ mark and see how my training goes with that. I definitely appreciate the help and information you guys provided.

[Jason2459]

I pretty much followed the book and the forum. Ate above what ever maintenance is supposed to mean and I lost weight following strict SA and slowly gained mostly lean weight on DB. I also got stronger while following both protocols. I must be a wizard to perform this magic. Or I busted my ass training and did my GPP like I'm supposed too... CBL is not meant for the lazy.

[Anthony21]

I pretty much followed the book and the forum. Ate above what ever maintenance is supposed to mean and I lost weight following strict SA and slowly gained mostly lean weight on DB. I also got stronger while following both protocols. I must be a wizard to perform this magic. Or I busted my ass training and did my GPP like I'm supposed too... CBL is not meant for the lazy.

Trust bro i'm not lazy and take my training seriously as well as my nutrition

[invain]

Trust bro i'm not lazy and take my training seriously as well as my nutrition

If you took your nutrition seriously you would choose a different diet plan other than CBL.

[NorthStrong]

If you took your nutrition seriously you would choose a different diet plan other than CBL.

[Anthony21]

If you took your nutrition seriously you would choose a different diet plan other than CBL.

What makes me trying out CBL any indication on me not taking my nutrition seriously?

Are you that guy that thinks there is only one way to skin a cat?

[EndLineTraining]

I think CBL has huge benefits and that the book lays out the protocol pretty decently, with a few exceptions but those questions can be found on the forums if they still exist. I did CBL after having to take some time off of training due to a concussion and put on 20 pounds in a short amount of time while staying the same BF with CBL. I was around 195 pre injury and dropped to 185 and after CBL was 205. So I'm not exactly the best case study but I liked the protocol. Works well for someone like me who isn't a breakfast eater anyways.
I think it works because it is a simple plan to follow and easy to implement if you are willing to prepare early in the day. I think that ramping up your conditioning with HIIT will help you shorten your prep phase. I think that a lot of the super sweet foods that are promoted are a marketing strategy and no one is getting down 5% BF eating cherry turnovers or stepping on the stage stage for a BB show 7 days after having a couple boxes of doughnuts as claimed. But the diet works and even works for people who already were following a solid diet. Could you make deviations from it to make it even more productive? Yes. But let it run its course before trying to switch anything up. I think the concept of nutrient timing is huge and any good diet has that component so if you work hard you'll be happy. Best of luck.

[Anthony21]

I think CBL has huge benefits and that the book lays out the protocol pretty decently, with a few exceptions but those questions can be found on the forums if they still exist. I did CBL after having to take some time off of training due to a concussion and put on 20 pounds in a short amount of time while staying the same BF with CBL. I was around 195 pre injury and dropped to 185 and after CBL was 205. So I'm not exactly the best case study but I liked the protocol. Works well for someone like me who isn't a breakfast eater anyways.
I think it works because it is a simple plan to follow and easy to implement if you are willing to prepare early in the day. I think that ramping up your conditioning with HIIT will help you shorten your prep phase. I think that a lot of the super sweet foods that are promoted are a marketing strategy and no one is getting down 5% BF eating cherry turnovers or stepping on the stage stage for a BB show 7 days after having a couple boxes of doughnuts as claimed. But the diet works and even works for people who already were following a solid diet. Could you make deviations from it to make it even more productive? Yes. But let it run its course before trying to switch anything up. I think the concept of nutrient timing is huge and any good diet has that component so if you work hard you'll be happy. Best of luck.

Right on man thanks for chiming in. A part of me is saying this is stupid and nutrient timing is irrelevant but then the other part is saying to just try it and see what happens.

[mattdajani]

What makes me trying out CBL any indication on me not taking my nutrition seriously?

Are you that guy that thinks there is only one way to skin a cat?

Don't use stupid fad diets that are not based in science whatsoever. Meal timing doesn't matter on CBL? Maybe it's because meal timing really doesn't ****ing matter, especially not for fat loss/muscle gain. You can eat donuts on CBL as well? Maybe it's because all that "junk" food really doesn't automatically turn to fat after all. No, all of this is because Keifer discovered some super secret documents that show that carb backloading (made up term) is the SECRET to RIPPED ABS AND GUNZ. The guy should be ashamed for taking advantage of uneducated people.

[Anthony21]

Don't use stupid fad diets that are not based in science whatsoever. Meal timing doesn't matter on CBL? Maybe it's because meal timing really doesn't ****ing matter, especially not for fat loss/muscle gain. You can eat donuts on CBL as well? Maybe it's because all that "junk" food really doesn't automatically turn to fat after all. No, all of this is because Keifer discovered some super secret documents that show that carb backloading (made up term) is the SECRET to RIPPED ABS AND GUNZ. The guy should be ashamed for taking advantage of uneducated people.

Bro I definitely get where you're coming from bro. I guess my issue as to why I looked into CBL is because whenever I have a meal containing carbs at work ill just crash and get tired as fuark! This happens a majority of the times.

Would you say saving cabs for pre and post in regards to your mass consumption be wiser? If so isn't this food timing or a form of it?

[Jason2459]

... double post.

[Jason2459]

Can we leave the bashing and praise back and forth to the nut section. This thread will be closed soon enough with that path. Anthony I know you're a hard worker and it shows. I'm sure you'll figure what you want to do out. You can always browse through that original CBL thread linked up in the stickies. Can always ask some of the guys in that thread and most have their own training logs you can pop into. I'm still following the protocol and switch between SA, DB, and a modification of DB. I see it more of way to help optimize both your training and feeding and not so much a diet or a way to get shredded. At least that's not my goal or many of the powerlifters in this section and it has worked for many of us. And like I mentioned you can always pop into my journal on this site and ask questions too.

[mattdajani]

Bro I definitely get where you're coming from bro. I guess my issue as to why I looked into CBL is because whenever I have a meal containing carbs at work ill just crash and get tired as fuark! This happens a majority of the times.

Would you say saving cabs for pre and post in regards to your mass consumption be wiser? If so isn't this food timing or a form of it?

You're crashing because you're eating too many carbs at once. Maybe 150g of carbs (obviously protein/fat/fiber in the current meal and previous meals matter) in a meal makes you crash but 100g won't. Of course you could move your high carb meals around to any time you want. That doesn't have much to do with what I said though. I was just attacking some of the asinine claims that are made in regards to CBL. You want eat most of your carbs before you go to sleep/as soon as you wake up/ or whenever the hell that's fine but let's not pretend if it's the same macros/micros that the timing is somehow going to make a certain plan better than the others when it comes to body composition. The performance aspect can be there sure, but it's also individual and your body can and will adapt so saying it's the "right" way for optimal performance isn't entirely true.

[paulosantos0922]

I guess my issue as to why I looked into CBL is because whenever I have a meal containing carbs at work ill just crash and get tired as fuark! This happens a majority of the times.

Would you say saving cabs for pre and post in regards to your mass consumption be wiser? If so isn't this food timing or a form of it?

That's exactly what I learned from CBL. The second I have carbs, I feel sluggish. So I stay low carbs until I workout.

If I workout in the morning, I have a **** load of carbs and protein post workout. Then I stay low carbs all day until dinner.

If I workout in the afternoon, I stay low carb all day until post workout where I have carbs and protein. Then for dinner, i have some more carbs.

Either way, I don't skip breakfast anymore.

[EndLineTraining]

Right on man thanks for chiming in. A part of me is saying this is stupid and nutrient timing is irrelevant but then the other part is saying to just try it and see what happens.

From a performance standpoint nutrient timing is a big deal and while obviously others disagree I feel it is a big deal for body composition. I actually read Kiefer's studies (not all of them because dear Lord he sites a bunch of crap) and there was a difference with meal timing and body comp for the average person with the same macros. What must be realized is that it was just for the average person. I would say what I found compelling is the thought of increasing insulin sensitivity through meal timing which will call for more rapid absorption of nutrients. Makes total sense as the opposite is true and can be proven with the millions of diabetics in America. At the end of the day when picking a diet you have to find one that works for you and you can follow because that is going to be the best diet. Some people find it to fit perfectly with their lifestyle and love it. I would like to note that some of of the studies Kiefer sites in some of his other articles were counter to his claims so I see why some people get a little angry with the guy. I guess he never expected anyone to read those studies. Smart dude though.

[Anthony21]

Can we leave the bashing and praise back and forth to the nut section. This thread will be closed soon enough with that path. Anthony I know you're a hard worker and it shows. I'm sure you'll figure what you want to do out. You can always browse through that original CBL thread linked up in the stickies. Can always ask some of the guys in that thread and most have their own training logs you can pop into. I'm still following the protocol and switch between SA, DB, and a modification of DB. I see it more of way to help optimize both your training and feeding and not so much a diet or a way to get shredded. At least that's not my goal or many of the powerlifters in this section and it has worked for many of us. And like I mentioned you can always pop into my journal on this site and ask questions too.

This thread wasn't intended for that and it definitely wasn't my intentions. I appreciate the info in this thread whether it's pro CBL or not. I appreciate the invite bro.

You're crashing because you're eating too many carbs at once. Maybe 150g of carbs (obviously protein/fat/fiber in the current meal and previous meals matter) in a meal makes you crash but 100g won't. Of course you could move your high carb meals around to any time you want. That doesn't have much to do with what I said though. I was just attacking some of the asinine claims that are made in regards to CBL. You want eat most of your carbs before you go to sleep/as soon as you wake up/ or whenever the hell that's fine but let's not pretend if it's the same macros/micros that the timing is somehow going to make a certain plan better than the others when it comes to body composition. The performance aspect can be there sure, but it's also individual and your body can and will adapt so saying it's the "right" way for optimal performance isn't entirely true.

Good point it might be cause the amount of carbs i'm having and i'll definitely reduce that to see how it effects me. Thanks a lot for the helpful into bro.

That's exactly what I learned from CBL. The second I have carbs, I feel sluggish. So I stay low carbs until I workout.

If I workout in the morning, I have a **** load of carbs and protein post workout. Then I stay low carbs all day until dinner.

If I workout in the afternoon, I stay low carb all day until post workout where I have carbs and protein. Then for dinner, i have some more carbs.

Either way, I don't skip breakfast anymore.

Right on man

[coloBB]

That's exactly what I learned from CBL. The second I have carbs, I feel sluggish. So I stay low carbs until I workout.

If I workout in the morning, I have a **** load of carbs and protein post workout. Then I stay low carbs all day until dinner.

If I workout in the afternoon, I stay low carb all day until post workout where I have carbs and protein. Then for dinner, i have some more carbs.

Either way, I don't skip breakfast anymore.

This is pretty much what I do. I personally feel better on the lower carb end, with more consistent energy and no crazy cravings. I keep the majority of my carbs post workout (no matter what time of day it is). "Earning my carbs" seems to work out well for performance and body comp.

Keifer just took this idea, put a name on it and a high price tag. Carb cycling is not some new revolutionary idea.... but it does work.

[Anthony21]

This is pretty much what I do. I personally feel better on the lower carb end, with more consistent energy and no crazy cravings. I keep the majority of my carbs post workout (no matter what time of day it is). "Earning my carbs" seems to work out well for performance and body comp.

Keifer just took this idea, put a name on it and a high price tag. Carb cycling is not some new revolutionary idea.... but it does work.

It definitely isn't a new revelation. I think what i'm going to do is keep a majority of my carbs centered around pre and post and see how I feel and perform with this switch.