The stupid "shirt on" argument

[JaredPunch]

I'm reading this schit everywhere: "I want to look good with a shirt on", "I want to looks like I lift with a shirt on", "as a natural you will never look big with a shirt on", "girls won't even think I lift with a shirt on" and yadda yadda

I have some new for you guys: bodybuilding has nothing to do with having a shirt on
Everything bodybuilding rapresents is about the clotheless human body, when you have a shirt on no one, no girl, no person cares about your body, they care more about your style and the clothes you choose. Big without a shirt means good shape, good definition, separation between muscles, skin tone... big with a shirt means being a tank and no one cares about tanks, no one thinks a tank in itself looks good. Also bodybuilding is less about looking always good and more about creating illusions to look good in specific moments: choosing the right angle on a stage or a pic, pumping before a shot, tanning before a video, oiling, having a light from above. The most impressive physique can look average even shirtless after a lazy day of chips eating, soda drinking and tv watching. Bodybuilding is aesthethic illusion and the most important part to create this illusion is not wearing a shirt.

Belittling nattys because "with a shirt on they look average", feeling insicure because "with a shirt on it I don't look big" or jumping on juices because "it's the only way to look big with a shirt on"... it's the most retarted thing I've seen on here. It's like writing a bad review for a company selling power torches because you can't see their light outside in a full sunny day. Torches are meant for the night just like bodybuilding is meant for the naked/shirtless body.

/thread

[Hcnehracso]

I'm reading this schit everywhere: "I want to look good with a shirt on", "I want to looks like I lift with a shirt on", "as a natural you will never look big with a shirt on", "girls won't even think I lift with a shirt on" and yadda yadda

I have some new for you guys: bodybuilding has nothing to do with having a shirt on
Everything bodybuilding rapresents is about the clotheless human body, when you have a shirt on no one, no girl, no person cares about your body, they care more about your style and the clothes you choose. Big without a shirt means good shape, good definition, separation between muscles, skin tone... big with a shirt means being a tank and no one cares about tanks, no one thinks tanks look good. Also bodybuilder is less about looking always good and more about creating illusions to look good in specific moments: choosing the right angle on a stage or a pic, pumping before a shot, tanning before a video, oiling, having a light from above. The most impressive physique can look average even shirtless after a lazy day of chips eating, soda drinking and tv watching. Bodybuilding is aesthethic illusion and the most important part to create this illusion is not wearing a shirt.

Belittling nattys because "with a shirt on they look average", feeling insicure because "with a shirt on it I don't look big" or jumping on juices because "it's the only way to look big with a shirt on"... it's the most retarted thing I've seen on here. It's like writing a bad review for a company selling power torches because you can't see their light outside in a full sunny day. Torches are meant for the night just like bodybuilding is meant for the naked/shirtless body.

/thread

Hmmm
Some people aren't here to compete on a stage basically naked, they're here to improve their bodily image and of course health. What do we spend 99% of our daytime life wearing? A shirt. So obviously its important to look good wearing a shirt. However it is wrong to ONLY train for cases when you are wearing a shirt because obviously without a shirt you will look stupid

Sorry don't want an argument

[GabeGSF]

So what you're saying is that some people aren't purists when it comes to bodybuilding. Well yeah, no surprise there. We live compartmentalized lives (meaning we have lives) and we want to look good with the shirt on and off. What's the big deal with that lol?

[Meadey]

I swear Jared you are one of the worst posters here srs


SOME PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT GOALS THAN YOU
SHUT THE **** UP

[JaredPunch]

So what you're saying is that some people aren't purists when it comes to bodybuilding. Well yeah, no surprise there. We live compartmentalized lives (meaning we have lives) and we want to look good with the shirt on and off. What's the big deal with that lol?

Well the problem is that looking good (in a bodybuilding way) with a shirt on is just an illusion
Everything that makes a bodybuilder looks good and makes others appreciate him, disappear with a shirt on, what's left is looking like a tank or looking like any other human being and both are irrelevant since people will be looking at your shirt anyway.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT GOALS THAN YOU
SHUT THE **** UP

Do you realize that "looking good" with a shirt on is a non-goal, since what makes one looks good is the shape and details of his body?
You can only look two things with a shirt-on: average or a tank and both have nothing to do with showing off the results of your training. No person will ever say "you look great, look like you really work hard" to someone who is wearing a shirt. That's because the body you're building, as a bodybuilder amateur or otherwise, is being covered by clothes.

So reading of people belittling naturals because they look great but will never look big with a shirt on or reading of depressed guys jumping on gear because they look great but average with a shirt on really makes me sad, because it's a retarded argument in a bodybuilding/fitness/aesthethics whatever forum.

[GabeGSF]

Well the problem is that looking good (in a bodybuilding way) with a shirt on is just an illusion
Everything that makes a bodybuilder looks good and makes others appreciate him, disappear with a shirt on, what's left is looking like a tank or looking like any other human being and both are irrelevant since people will be looking at your shirt anyway.

No lol, that's totally untrue. I understand why you'd think that, with a lot of bodybuilders looking like normal skinny people with a shirt on. That's just because most people have no clue how to dress and have no sense of style. Wear clothes that are fitted properly, it's that simple.

[danlsann]

Neat.

[JaredPunch]

No lol, that's totally untrue. I understand why you'd think that, with a lot of bodybuilders looking like normal skinny people with a shirt on. That's just because most people have no clue how to dress and have no sense of style. Wear clothes that are fitted properly, it's that simple.

Well, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with trying to look good with fitted clothes and such
I started the debate because of how the "shirt on" argument is used to imply that naturals will always look bad, that getting ripped is not worth it or that gears should be mandatory. So they say "that guy is natty, looks great even at 170 lbs but with a shirt on he looks average, he should start juicing or be bigger and get rid of the shredded look it's pointless if you disappear with a shirt on". But if you look great shirtless, you look great period. If you don't look that impressive with a shirt on, that's not an argument implying "you don't look good enough" because nothing of what makes one impressive is revealed when fully clothed anyway.

[GabeGSF]

If it matters that much to you okay lol you're right with what you're saying. I'm just saying you can look good with a shirt on and off. Just learn how to dress

[johndoejd54]

Probably over 80% of people here will not step on stage

[RamiroSosa]

I swear Jared you are one of the worst posters here srs


SOME PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT GOALS THAN YOU
SHUT THE **** UP

Hahaha ! repped for the laugh

[GabeGSF]

Try 95%

[Meadey]

Of course its a goal if that's what the person wants to do

Who are you to belittle someone's goal because you don't think that's what bodybuilding is.
As said above, most of us here don't want to be pro bbers and are training to get big and look good, shirt or no shirt.

Who cares

[PrinceAikins]

lol don't really give a fuq tbh
still wanna look big and swole in a shirt.
done.

[JaredPunch]

Probably over 80% of people here will not step on stage

No one can tell a difference between a big non-lifter and a lifter or a lean non-lifter and a lifter when they have a shirt on
Do Ogus or Plitt upload lot of pictures of themselves clothed? And if someone had not seen their shirtless pictures would they think they have an impressive physique of someone who trains? No, they would probably think they're average guys posting random pics of themselves. Note how people comment mostly/only on our biceps with a shirt on, because that's what they see. Do they comment on our abdominals? quads, back? Hardly. Shoulders? Maybe but there are a lot of people with bad sedentary bodies and large shoulders.

Even Zyzz was shirtless everywhere he went, even in hotels, parks, street because with a shirt one he would've hardly looked any different than all the other guys nearby. So my point is: shirt on everything that makes you an amateur/competing bodybuilder disappears, you've nothing noticeably different than every other guy SO it's expecially bad to use the "looking small with a shirt on" argument to underestimate natty achievement, promote gears, give up...

[s58]

Lol plenty of people look good in a shirt. I can tell when someone lifts or not when they're wearing a shirt. The arms and chest are the common places to notice in a shirt if they workout or not. You need to workout for at least a year before people notice you look big in a shirt. But its def possible

[s58]

No one can tell a difference between a big non-lifter and a lifter or a lean non-lifter and a lifter when they have a shirt on
Do Ogus or Plitt upload lot of pictures of themselves clothed? And if someone had not seen their shirtless pictures would they think they have an impressive physique of someone who trains? No, they would probably think of them as average guys. Note how people comment mostly/only on our biceps with a shirt on, because that's what they see. Do they comment on our abdominals? quads, back? Hardly. Shoulders? Maybe but there are a lot of people with bad sedentary bodies and large shoulders.

Even Zyzz was shirtless anywhere he went, even in hotels, parks, street because with a shirt one he would've hardly looked any different than all the other guys nearby. So my point is: shirt on everything that makes you an amateur/competing bodybuilder disappears, you've nothing noticeably different than every other guy SO it's expecially bad to use the "looking small with a shirt on" argument to underestimate natty achievement, promote gears, give up...

Also keep in mind that zyzz was super lean. So your rule actually only applys to people who are super lean. Talking like 8% and under. You will look small in a shirt but nice without one.

[namename]

well if you're big enough to be competing on stage you better look pretty damn big in a shirt...

this thread is pointless

I say we all find where OP lives and have sex with him

[JaredPunch]

Lol plenty of people look good in a shirt. I can tell when someone lifts or not when they're wearing a shirt. The arms and chest are the common places to notice in a shirt if they workout or not. You need to workout for at least a year before people notice you look big in a shirt. But its def possible

If you want to be defined as well 9% bf or less, then it's hard to notice anything, even in the chest area. Arms true if you've a short sleeves shirt.

Also keep in mind that zyzz was super lean. So your rule actually only applys to people who are super lean. Talking like 8% and under. You will look small in a shirt but nice without one.

True, but what makes me mad is when these guys are called "small or not looking that good" just on the premise that with a shirt on they will look small, that's actually one of the first reasons a guy might start juicing, because he loved how he looked shirtless but many told him he was small with a shirt on. Considering how unimportant is to look big with a shirt on since that's something even a 20% BF guy who play sport for fun can achieve and how the majority of people won't see much difference between a clothed lifter and others, it's pretty bad to give such importance to your look shirt on when you already look great shirt off. I have actually seen many great looking guys throwing the baby with the bath water because they didn't look big enough when clothed and ruining their physique because of this.

[JaredPunch]

well if you're big enough to be competing on stage you better look pretty damn big in a shirt...

Most guys who compete, look very small with a shirt on unless they're on a bulk. This is expecially true of naturals since they need to be very light in order to be ripped. But this is also true of amateurs who just want to look good and don't care about competing, since at 8% bodyfat you won't look big with clothes on. But what's the point of looking big with a shirt on since any sedentary with enough fat but not so much to be obese can achieve that? Lol huge bbers, gone the dehydrated ripedness of the competition day, actually look identical to obese guys (not morbidly) with a shirt on. Smaller bbers look like any "big boy" who doesn't lift with a shirt on. And natural, amateurs and smaller bodybuilders look like any lean non-lifting joe with a shirt on. What matters is what below.

[CupcakeSquats]

Look, I know you hate drug users and think they're the scum of the earth, but this is probably the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen.

[MuscleMigraine]

Whats your point?

I dont wan't to look skinny ripped and only look good with a shirt off. And btw you CAN look good in a shirt without steroids for sure, I've gotten atleast 10-20 complements on how I look while wearing a shirt, not bragging but just saying its easily possible, I've only been training for a year, how about Chris Jones? He looks big in a shirt.

Its practical. People are wearing shirts 90% of their life so they wan't to look good in them. Thats still bodybuilding

And Ogus and Plitt would still clearly look like they lift while wearing a shirt.

[JaredPunch]

Look, I know you hate drug users and think they're the scum of the earth, but this is probably the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen.

I have nothing against a person who want to progress past natural limits but I think it's pretty bad when on an endeavor where to look different than any other person around you you need to wear less clothes as possible, so many are bullied into thinking they're not good enough because of how they look when fully clothed. I will say this again: i have seen people destroying their amazing bodies because of how bad they thought it was not look that different with a shirt on (while it's actually the norm, no matter how big one is)

Whats your point?

I dont wan't to look skinny ripped and only look good with a shirt off. And btw you CAN look good in a shirt without steroids for sure, I've gotten atleast 10-20 complements on how I look while wearing a shirt, not bragging but just saying its easily possible, I've only been training for a year, how about Chris Jones? He looks big in a shirt.

Its practical. People are wearing shirts 90% of their life so they wan't to look good in them. Thats still bodybuilding

And Ogus and Plitt would still clearly look like they lift while wearing a shirt.

With a shirt on you don't look much if any different than any other person with a similar structure as you. People were probably complimenting you on your arms. This is Ogus with a shirt on:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ps560eaab4.jpg

I see hudrends of people looking like that everyday, people who don't lift. In fact in this particular photo he looks like a college teacher I know who is actually fat, but the visual effect on the sleeves and chest is the same.

My point is: since the difference between one who lift and one who doesn't, shirt on, is around 0% to 2%, what one looks like shirt on is a pretty bad reason to call people small, to bully great looking lean guys into becoming fat or to start riding.

[Schmeckie]

No one can tell a difference between a big non-lifter and a lifter or a lean non-lifter and a lifter when they have a shirt on
Do Ogus or Plitt upload lot of pictures of themselves clothed? And if someone had not seen their shirtless pictures would they think they have an impressive physique of someone who trains? No, they would probably think they're average guys posting random pics of themselves. Note how people comment mostly/only on our biceps with a shirt on, because that's what they see. Do they comment on our abdominals? quads, back? Hardly. Shoulders? Maybe but there are a lot of people with bad sedentary bodies and large shoulders.

Even Zyzz was shirtless everywhere he went, even in hotels, parks, street because with a shirt one he would've hardly looked any different than all the other guys nearby. So my point is: shirt on everything that makes you an amateur/competing bodybuilder disappears, you've nothing noticeably different than every other guy SO it's expecially bad to use the "looking small with a shirt on" argument to underestimate natty achievement, promote gears, give up...

Lol at full on retard....

[JaredPunch]

Lol at full on retard....

I can see your arms in your avi, that's it. If you were wearing a long sleeves shirt I can assure you no one would see any relevant difference between you and another big guy of your height who doesn't lift.

[HowsMyClutch]

I have nothing against a person who want to progress past natural limits but I think it's pretty bad when on an endeavor where to look different than any other person around you you need to wear less clothes as possible, so many are bullied into thinking they're not good enough because of how they look when fully clothed. I will say this again: i have seen people destroying their amazing bodies because of how bad they thought it was not look that different with a shirt on (while it's actually the norm, no matter how big one is)



With a shirt on you don't look much if any different than any other person with a similar structure as you. People were probably complimenting you on your arms. This is Ogus with a shirt on:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ps560eaab4.jpg

I see hudrends of people looking like that everyday, people who don't lift. In fact in this particular photo he looks like a college teacher I know who is actually fat, but the visual effect on the sleeves and chest is the same.

My point is: since the difference between one who lift and one who doesn't, shirt on, is around 0% to 2%, what one looks like shirt on is a pretty bad reason to call people small, to bully great looking lean guys into becoming fat or to start riding.

OP is the biggest ******* on the forum. Your srs think you won't look big with a shirt on unless your not natty? Are you stupid?

Giving me a pictures of Ogus with a baggy ass shirt, while he's lean as faurk, is just making you look like an idiot.

The right apparel with any person that even remotely lifts will provide results.

Ex. Kid that used to go to my school.



You don't think he's massive *******?

[ItzDynamik]

so you're saying a bish wouldn't wet her panties for a jacked dude wearing a nice fitted shirt?

[AlexTheNewbie]

And the worst thread of the week award goes to...."The stupid shirt on argument"

As long as you wear fitting clothes you will definitely look like you lift.
I get complimented on my physique all the time and I don't walk around shirtless.

[JaredPunch]

You don't think he's massive *******?

Again, what you see is mostly arms.
Again, he is not even lean, I was talking about lean guys 8% who love how they look but when they put a shirt on fellow lifters say "you look small" and when I said "stupid argument" this is what I mean, not that it's stupid to care what you look with clothes on but that's stupid to use this as an argument for convincing others to fatten up, underappreciate their body or start using when they already look good shirtless.

I know a kid who failed bulk, now he is 22% bodyfat but strong as hell because how heavy his training was. Shirtless he doesn't look any different than any other untrained guy but with a shirt on he looks like his lifters more muscular mates. Provided one isn't morbidly obese or skinny-fat, circumference of bodypart is what matters when you're wearing clothes. Upper arms, provided one has some muscle at 20% bodyfat with a shirt on will look like a guy with more muscle and less fat but same arms size. Chest again it's the circumference that matters, with a shirt on you can hardly tell a less muscle more fat guys from a leaner one with more muscle. Abdominal, obliques, serratus of course are invisible. Back again, hardly telling any difference between a 20% guy with some muscle and a leaner guy with more muscles. Legs, I can't honestly see any difference between fat legs (again provided no morbidly obese) and big muscular legs. Sorry if the circumference is the same, they will look the same on jeans.

[Shogar25]

Peaple always tell me I look big with a shirt but I'm really out of shape.

having muscle with fat over it make you look big

me after a 8 mile run