Program to increase strength in Squat, Dead Lift, and Bench

[kinaking]

I recently started squatting again (had back issues, seem to be all fixed now) and deadlifting. Due to my lower back issues, I haven't worked those muscles for a very, very long time, 1-2 years. And, I rarely, rarely work my abs. I don't see the benefit when I still have 18-20% body fat to work my abs, but now I think I should be.

So, I started squatting, and I saw fast strength gains. I was upwards of doing 2 reps with over 400 lbs. But, then I started watching squat videos, and I realized, I was that guy doing 1/2 reps. I warmed up with full range, but when it got heavy, 1/2 rep.

So, I am back to doing full squats. I'll do like 225 for 10 reps or so, 275 for 6-8, around that, focusing on keeping form. But, when I get fatigued, I do bad form, or if it's too heavy, 1/2 rep. The lack of strength isn't from my legs, it's from my lower back / core, I can tell. And, I may be a little scared with my lower back issues in the past, dunno.

So, my question is what is a good program to increase strength on squat? I plan to do the other 4 or 5 days of training focusing on hypertrophy / cutting programs, but I would like to devote a day to strength. This has worked good for me in the past, a nice mix. Spefically, what are some good exercises (besides simply squatting and working legs) that will increase my squat? For example of leg strength, although every machine is different, I leg press 1000 lbs sets of 8 with good form (although hard because at end of the decline, so much belly it takes the air out of my lungs!).

On to deadlift. I think I'm doing pretty good so far, having never deadlifted before, and just started about 3 months ago. I can pull 405 off the ground with good form. So, I think my body is on par for this lift, no real weak spots to focus on, I just want to pull more, I really like that exercise.

Finally bench. I have been focusing a bit on increasing this, and am in a good spot (personal best actualy), able to do 285x2, hoping to do 300x1. I have been working chest by bench, dumbbell press, incline press, flys, incline flys, cable flys. All with veriations of rep range from 6 to 30, triple drop sets, FST 7, and drop sets to 100 reps. On the strength focus days I'll not fail, on hypertrophy days, I'll fail on every set. But, for strength gain, what is a good base program to do once a week?

I understand by only going for strength once a week I may not see super gains, but it is a nice break from the hypertrophy / cutting style of training I've been doing for a long while. It's nice to see gains in strength when you are stuck on your gains in the mirror, at least for a couple months.

[skel1977]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=131379243

Its based around gaining strength on squats, deadlifts, bench, and overhead press

[kinaking]

Its based around gaining strength on squats, deadlifts, bench, and overhead press

Thanks for the link. I read the post / attachments, and don't quite think it's what I'm looking for. I do like the linear progression aspect of it, which is what I'm kind of doing now (now I do 2 sets of everything for the strength, starting at 10 reps, 10, 8, 5, 5, 5, 3, 3, 2 respectively per week was my progression, adding weight every week).

I definatly understand that I need to eat to gain real strength, but strength is 2nd to my cutting / losing weight. I am fully aware I won't see as good of results without eating 1.5 grams of protein a day and 6000 calories. My expectations aren't that much, it's the small gains that keep ya going ya know?

I kind of want just one day of strength training, or, one-two exercises per day of strength training, then back to my muscle confusion stuff.

[SuffolkPunch]

Muscle confusion is junk science.

If you are cutting you can't expect to gain any muscle tissue and therefore can't expect much more than slight neural improvements to strength. Read this:
http://www.completehumanperformance....and-power.html

90% of strength comes from the amount of muscle tissue you have, the other 10% is from neural conditioning (how your brain uses it)

[kinaking]

I have plenty of muscle mass, I weigh 285 at 18-22% BF depending. I haven't lifted for strength at all at this size besides the last 2 months, and very minimal at that. I understand the bench won't go up much, fine. My squat is lacking when I get down to the point of no return, not from strength in my legs, but from strength in what feels like my core. I guarantee you i can gain strength in my core while cutting considering I haven't worked it in a year.

I don't do muscle confusion because of hte science, I do it because of the fun it gives me in the gym.

[SuffolkPunch]

I seriously doubt your lean body mass is 220+lbs - your lifts would all be about double what they are now.

[Retoaded]

I have plenty of muscle mass, I weigh 285 at 18-22% BF depending. I haven't lifted for strength at all at this size besides the last 2 months, and very minimal at that. I understand the bench won't go up much, fine. My squat is lacking when I get down to the point of no return, not from strength in my legs, but from strength in what feels like my core. I guarantee you i can gain strength in my core while cutting considering I haven't worked it in a year.

I don't do muscle confusion because of hte science, I do it because of the fun it gives me in the gym.

are you 6' 10" tall?

[kinaking]

I seriously doubt your lean body mass is 220+lbs - your lifts would all be about double what they are now.

Bodyfat test completed by personal trainer, caliber, handheld device thingy, myself, and a friend all match between 18-22%. I only started lifting (from a 5 year layoff) about a year ago, and haven't lifted for strength that entire time.

Just like the skinny guy at the gym that should't be able to put up 300 lbs does it with ease, the fat guy at the gym doesn't isn't able to bench 500 lbs

[kinaking]

are you 6' 10" tall?

6'3"

chest 45"
arms 16.75"
Hips 43"
Waist 41"
Thighs 27"
Calves 18.25"
Foreamrs 14"
Shoulders 54"
Neck 17"

These measurements are a couple months old mind you, but will be around that

[SuffolkPunch]

Those gadgets are useless. In any case, you'll find out if you try to get a 6 pack at 230lbs

[kinaking]

I seriously doubt your lean body mass is 220+lbs - your lifts would all be about double what they are now.

Oh, and the should be able to lift double what I can part is why I am trying to gain strength. The ego is put at check a little bit when the big guys is pressing 110 lb dumbbels, and the guy that weights 160 is using 90's, kind of makes you feel like a chump.

[Retoaded]

6'3"

chest 45"
arms 16.75"
Hips 43"
Waist 41"
Thighs 27"
Calves 18.25"
Foreamrs 14"
Shoulders 54"
Neck 17"

These measurements are a couple months old mind you, but will be around that

sorry man but no way you are 20% with a 41" waist. that being said, good luck!

[kinaking]

sorry man but no way you are 20% with a 41" waist. that being said, good luck!

I'm not arguing with you there, I still dont' believe the tests when I get them. I figure'd i'm more like 25%. And, I haven't figured why my waist is 41"when my pant size is 38.

Regardless, the thread title is this:

"Program to increase strength in Squat, Dead Lift, and Bench "

So let's focus on ways to do that instead of debating how much I should be able to lift, my bodyfat, etc.

[SuffolkPunch]

I have been trying to steer you away from the notion that strength and muscle mass are somehow independent quantities. They are not. 90% of your strength comes from how much muscle you have. The other 10% is the neural 'polish' that you add by practicing the movement and by doing high intensity work (like prepping for a powerlifting meet).

Read these:
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/...ionalmyth.html
http://www.completehumanperformance....and-power.html

So I stand by what I said that you aren't going to get much stronger if you are dieting and cannot grow new tissue... however since you are probably fatter than you think (BTW - I'd put your LBM at 180lbs) - it MAY be possible to "recomp" somewhat (simultaneous fat loss and muscle gain). Read:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...ng-fat-qa.html

However, I still say it's more efficient to run distinct fat loss and muscle gain cycles.

5/3/1 is a good program, choose a template you like - BBB is worth a look.

[kinaking]

I understand what you are saying and agree, our difference is when it comes to my lean body mass. I know I'm much more than 180 lbm, and you don't believe that I am. I dont' believe veins pop out in the biceps of a person when they are over 30% body fat, and that vein leads all the way to my shoulder. I'm just a really big dude on all fronts, wide, thick, tall, long arms (short legs though, all torso), etc. My belly is by far where all my fat is, which is the cause of a lot of partying. For the caliber test, as an example, chest pinch is at like 15, legs at like 10, biceps at like 12, belly is like 9000.

I ran the fat loss program (variations of many different programs) and went from 40% body fat, weighing in at 340 down to what I am now. I am not seeing better results because of my nutrition, I know that, which is about 90% clean. When I eat bad, it affects my body really bad, and takes a while to recoup with clean eating, same with boozing on weekend.

I'll look at your links in a few minutes. Appreciate the help. And, if anyone can chime in for squat specific and ways to increase my core strength for squatting, that'd be appreciated. My lower back is very weak I know, very, very weak. I'd compensated for an injury for 10 years, and am just now training it back.

[SuffolkPunch]

Here is one more:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...potential.html

[kinaking]

Good articles, and I think make my point of increasing strength with what I have currently without building a ton of mass or eating 8000 calories a day.

I really like the routine of doing one rep max, then the higher reps in same day, will be good for what I am looking for.

I think my one rep max for squat is goign to be pretty low because of my lower back lack of strength, and I like that adding good mornings into the routine will help that portion (info I am looking for).

[ummme]

Im pretty much a fan of the idea that you squat to fix a weakness in your squat. If at this point you happen to be squatting to strengthen your core more then to strength the wheels... so be it. Squat what you can in good form, pick a program with the progression appropriate for your training level. In a way id lean towards saying a beginners program, mostly because you are catching up the support team and not the main muscles... beginner program really means fastest progressing program.

[kinaking]

Im pretty much a fan of the idea that you squat to fix a weakness in your squat. If at this point you happen to be squatting to strengthen your core more then to strength the wheels... so be it. Squat what you can in good form, pick a program with the progression appropriate for your training level. In a way id lean towards saying a beginners program, mostly because you are catching up the support team and not the main muscles... beginner program really means fastest progressing program.

I agree mostly. I will squat to increase squat, that goes without saying. But, because I pretty much know what my main weakness is from the squat itself, I feel I can incorporate other exercises to increase that strength gain, like good mornings for example. But, good mornings is about the extent of what I know to add.

[Smancers]

So I think then you just want some recommendation on assistance work that support your squat.

Definitely focus on your squat, and do them first in your workout. Don't do the assistance stuff first and tire yourself out (you probably already know this but for anyone else that might not).

And I agree with Suffolk, 5/3/1 might be good for your progression on the squat.

You can also add Squat Variations after you do your regular squats. Front squats, Hack Squats, Leg press, Stationary/Walking Barbell/dumbell/kettlebell Forward/Backward lunges are great too.

Along with Good Mornings, Obviously deadlifts do a great job of strengthening your posterior chain. Thus adding variations make for good assisance work, like Stiff legged, Deficit, Chains, Trap Bar, etc.

Regular ole ab work can help you if you think that is your main problem. I liek to do it at the very end. Decline weighted situps, LEg raises, Plank are all your friend.

[SuffolkPunch]

Good articles, and I think make my point of increasing strength with what I have currently without building a ton of mass or eating 8000 calories a day.

I really like the routine of doing one rep max, then the higher reps in same day, will be good for what I am looking for.

I think my one rep max for squat is goign to be pretty low because of my lower back lack of strength, and I like that adding good mornings into the routine will help that portion (info I am looking for).

Yeah... but we are only talking about 10% improvement from that kind of training, it was just something to do to make you feel like you are making progress while cutting.

As I've said, you will find out what your true LBM is if you try to get lean enough to see abs...

[kinaking]

Just wanted to post an update. I am doing the 5/3/1 program, started it back in August ish. In the first 6 weeks, I increased my deadlift by 50 lbs, squat by 45 lbs, and bench by 5 lbs. I haven't maxed since then, but i don't expect a lot of improvement from those numbers, more like a normal progression numbers, especially since I injured my lower back again. I was hoping to pull 500lbs by the new year, but now, probably stall out at around 480 or so.

So, anyone looking to add strength, try the 5/3/1 program, it worked beautifully for me

[Ozieman3o5]

Just wanted to post an update. I am doing the 5/3/1 program, started it back in August ish. In the first 6 weeks, I increased my deadlift by 50 lbs, squat by 45 lbs, and bench by 5 lbs. I haven't maxed since then, but i don't expect a lot of improvement from those numbers, more like a normal progression numbers, especially since I injured my lower back again. I was hoping to pull 500lbs by the new year, but now, probably stall out at around 480 or so.

So, anyone looking to add strength, try the 5/3/1 program, it worked beautifully for me

I think Madcows 5x5 is by far the best strength program.

[kinaking]

I read about the two versions of 5x5; however, after putting in my numbers on the available spreadsheet for download, it says that after 12 weeks, I will be doing what I am doing now on my lifts. For example, I may do 5x5 as an assistance lift for squat on the 5/3/1 program, I'll do it with anywhere from 275-315 lbs. With this program, it will take me 12 weeks to get up to those numbers, which I am at now.

for Deadlift, I never get to those numbers, same as bench. I do 5x5 of bench at around 225-245 now, but on this program, after 12 weeks, it puts me at 215 for 5x5.

I do like the layout, and progression style, and volume, but I just feel like I would be taking a 3 month step back in my progress if I started it.

[EVendettaP]

Read starting strength and try that or stronglifts 5x5

[kinaking]

Stronglifts 5x5 was the one I was referring to. I haven't read the e document yet, but the spreadsheet put me, after 12 weeks, doing less than what I do now.

[Ozieman3o5]

Stronglifts 5x5 was the one I was referring to. I haven't read the e document yet, but the spreadsheet put me, after 12 weeks, doing less than what I do now.

Im referring to this 5x5, http://stronglifts.com/madcow/5x5_Pr...Linear_5x5.htm.

[Retoaded]

Stronglifts 5x5 was the one I was referring to. I haven't read the e document yet, but the spreadsheet put me, after 12 weeks, doing less than what I do now.

if you would have started in august, back when you first posted this thread, think how far along you'd be now.

[krysix]

I read about the two versions of 5x5; however, after putting in my numbers on the available spreadsheet for download, it says that after 12 weeks, I will be doing what I am doing now on my lifts. For example, I may do 5x5 as an assistance lift for squat on the 5/3/1 program, I'll do it with anywhere from 275-315 lbs. With this program, it will take me 12 weeks to get up to those numbers, which I am at now.

for Deadlift, I never get to those numbers, same as bench. I do 5x5 of bench at around 225-245 now, but on this program, after 12 weeks, it puts me at 215 for 5x5.

I do like the layout, and progression style, and volume, but I just feel like I would be taking a 3 month step back in my progress if I started it.

You misread something. In madcow 5x5 you use your previous 5RM in week 4 and you are doing PRs from there.

Edit: sorry I saw that you are talking about Stronglifts. I think that you are way stronger for that routine, check madcow 5x5.

[kinaking]

If I would have started it back in August, I'd be doing less than what I do now.

I'm not knocking the program at all, I know it would work, I just don't think I want to go that far back to get no gains 12 weeks later.

The program Ozieman listed looks nice, it only goes 4 weeks "in the rear" to gain, and will produce much larger numbers for me in a 12 week span.

This is all purely just the math of the program, no real world stuff.

5/3/1 is still producing great results, I may not even change, I didn't have any intention to, just was trying to give an update.