Why do I often see huge buff guys, lifting miniscule weights?

[mxmaniac]

I've seen this quite a few times, with multiple people. I'll see some ridiculously buff guy, way huger than the majority of guys at the gym, but he'll be lifting tiny weights. Like doing tricep pulldowns with 20 pounds, or bicep curls with 25 pounds?

The weights will seem almost too small to even be a warm up, and they don't appear to be any sort of burn out set either, since he won't be struggling, just working out slow and mellow.

It always blows my mind when I'll be power lifting on a serious 5x5 or 5 3 1 type program, and then see a dude 3 times my size just casually working with tiny weights, wondering how is he so big?

[2am]

im just toning brah

[Indman]

Some of the advanced routines are very high volume and intensity so they might be doing 5x15 or something to hit different types of muscle fibers. Or they're on steroids...and just want to PUMP IT UP.

[Kenshinhimora]

I've seen this quite a few times, with multiple people. I'll see some ridiculously buff guy, way huger than the majority of guys at the gym, but he'll be lifting tiny weights. Like doing tricep pulldowns with 20 pounds, or bicep curls with 25 pounds?

The weights will seem almost too small to even be a warm up, and they don't appear to be any sort of burn out set either, since he won't be struggling, just working out slow and mellow.

It always blows my mind when I'll be power lifting on a serious 5x5 or 5 3 1 type program, and then see a dude 3 times my size just casually working with tiny weights, wondering how is he so big?

Don't worry about what other people are doing. You don't know if it is their 8th set for that body part or if they're deloading or if he's working at higher rep ranges for endurance instead of hypertrophy or strength.

[Partyrocking]

If you compare bodybuilders to powerlifters- you typically see powerlifters w/ a much larger 1RM and bodybuilders better at repping out w/ lower weights. E.g. a powerlifter might be able to deadlift 600 and the bodybuilder only 400, but at 250lbs, the bodybuilder will be able to get more reps.

Also, it could have been a recovery day, speed work, form practice, tendon injury.

[rdferguson]

Because,

[mxmaniac]

Very interesting video, that could very well explain the answer to my question.

It makes me really wonder what that guys strength to weight ratio is. Since although he is huge, he seems to be struggling with the 30 pounds after only a few sets. He's huge, but how does he perform at bodyweight exercises like muscle ups, handstand pushups, backflips, etc?

I know myself, I've always struggled with my strength to weight ratio. It is more important to me that size, because I play sports and do gymnastics. Myself personally though, even though I generally do strength based routines like 5x5, as I put on more and more muscle, the increased weight often makes my actual strength to weight ratio goes down.

[MongooseRawr]

I've seen this quite a few times, with multiple people. I'll see some ridiculously buff guy, way huger than the majority of guys at the gym, but he'll be lifting tiny weights. Like doing tricep pulldowns with 20 pounds, or bicep curls with 25 pounds?

The weights will seem almost too small to even be a warm up, and they don't appear to be any sort of burn out set either, since he won't be struggling, just working out slow and mellow.

It always blows my mind when I'll be power lifting on a serious 5x5 or 5 3 1 type program, and then see a dude 3 times my size just casually working with tiny weights, wondering how is he so big?

Well there's a couple things that could be going on. He could be on a "de-load week." A lot of guys on a de-load week do like half weight and such.

The other thing is that there are people that train for size alone. They typically work with "sarcoplasmic hypertrophy" which means they build up muscle size but this hypertrophy doesn't really give any strength as it is mainly fluid in the muscles and not muscle fibers. This hypertrophy is obtained by high rep ranges. The issue to worry about here is that if people keep training in such a fashion they end up getting a "puffed up" look instead of looking hard and chiseled. So training only in that fashion is not always the best idea. So if a guy only cares about physique, they'll go this route.

[midcoastking33]

Because,

kai inclines 4 plates for reps lol

[davidolson22]

It's hard for me to take the advice in that video seriously. I think there's a small chance the coach guy is doing steroids.

Although he definitely was right to stop that guy when he was doing straight bar curls. That's some of the worst form I think I've seen outside of some really painful deadlift videos.

[jeffl1980]

It's hard for me to take the advice in that video seriously. I think there's a small chance the coach guy is doing steroids.

Although he definitely was right to stop that guy when he was doing straight bar curls. That's some of the worst form I think I've seen outside of some really painful deadlift videos.

Steroids or no steroids, the guy knows what he's talking about. Regardless, he has put the work in to be where he is today! I'm guessing if he was natural you would take his advice more serious?!?

[Goatny]

The other thing is that there are people that train for size alone. They typically work with "sarcoplasmic hypertrophy" which means they build up muscle size but this hypertrophy doesn't really give any strength as it is mainly fluid in the muscles and not muscle fibers. This hypertrophy is obtained by high rep ranges. The issue to worry about here is that if people keep training in such a fashion they end up getting a "puffed up" look instead of looking hard and chiseled.

Ommfg!

[SuffolkPunch]

The other thing is that there are people that train for size alone. They typically work with "sarcoplasmic hypertrophy" which means they build up muscle size but this hypertrophy doesn't really give any strength as it is mainly fluid in the muscles and not muscle fibers. This hypertrophy is obtained by high rep ranges. The issue to worry about here is that if people keep training in such a fashion they end up getting a "puffed up" look instead of looking hard and chiseled. So training only in that fashion is not always the best idea. So if a guy only cares about physique, they'll go this route.

This is not true
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/...ionalmyth.html

A stronger muscle is a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle

The REAL difference between strength athletes and bodybuilders as how they target muscles in combinations and even down to the level of individual fibers...

A weight lifter aims to put together a CHAIN of muscles to perform a complex movement - and uses as much leverage advantage, momentum and total number of muscle groups as possible/permitted... for example a powerlifting bench press uses a crapload of front delt but not a lot of the other delt heads.

A bodybuilder isolates muscles and aims to hypertrophy all aspects of the muscle. For example, to build shoulders, benching and military pressing is not enough since they mainly focus on front delts. They put effort into the other delt heads even though this may not result in much improvement in bench/military performance.

[jgreystoke]

I've seen this quite a few times, with multiple people. I'll see some ridiculously buff guy, way huger than the majority of guys at the gym, but he'll be lifting tiny weights. Like doing tricep pulldowns with 20 pounds, or bicep curls with 25 pounds?

The weights will seem almost too small to even be a warm up, and they don't appear to be any sort of burn out set either, since he won't be struggling, just working out slow and mellow.

It always blows my mind when I'll be power lifting on a serious 5x5 or 5 3 1 type program, and then see a dude 3 times my size just casually working with tiny weights, wondering how is he so big?

1. Some guys respond so well to 'roids, HGH, Insulin etc that they will be huge while using Granny's weights for high enough reps just to get a pump.

2. Even strong guys will do a lot of light assistance work to pump blood into muscles and joints(if they have any sense). Connective tissue like ligaments and tendons are far less vascular vs muscles. So very high reps with load help keep your joints in good condition.

Strongman Derek Poundstone(6'1" 320lbs) curls the empty bar(45lb) for very high reps like 100(even 50 is agonizing, try it) for this reason. This is a guy who likely curls a couple plates(225) for plenty of reps.

Stop worrying what the hell anyone else is doing, seriously. That won't make you bigger and stronger.

[rdferguson]

kai inclines 4 plates for reps lol

Way to miss the point. "How you lift is more important than how much you lift" =/= "Lifting heavy is unimportant."

It's hard for me to take the advice in that video seriously. I think there's a small chance the coach guy is doing steroids.

Although he definitely was right to stop that guy when he was doing straight bar curls. That's some of the worst form I think I've seen outside of some really painful deadlift videos.

The whole point he was getting at in the video is use the muscles that you're trying to train, instead of letting other muscles take over. When did "use your biceps to train your biceps" become anything short of sensible, reasonable advice? He's not even suggesting that you shouldn't lift heavy or practice progressive overload, he's just saying to determine what's heavy and apply overload in accordance with what your target muscle/s can actually do, instead of deferring the work on to other areas.

[SuffolkPunch]

Strongman Derek Poundstone(6'1" 320lbs) curls the empty bar(45lb) for very high reps like 100(even 50 is agonizing, try it) for this reason.

It can make a tough guy want to weep

Way to miss the point. "How you lift is more important than how much you lift" =/= "Lifting heavy is unimportant."

The whole point he was getting at in the video is use the muscles that you're trying to train, instead of letting other muscles take over. When did "use your biceps to train your biceps" become anything short of sensible, reasonable advice? He's not even suggesting that you shouldn't lift heavy or practice progressive overload, he's just saying to determine what's heavy and apply overload in accordance with what your target muscle/s can actually do, instead of deferring the work on to other areas.

QFT

[MongooseRawr]

This is not true


A stronger muscle is a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle

The REAL difference between strength athletes and bodybuilders as how they target muscles in combinations and even down to the level of individual fibers...

A weight lifter aims to put together a CHAIN of muscles to perform a complex movement - and uses as much leverage advantage, momentum and total number of muscle groups as possible/permitted... for example a powerlifting bench press uses a crapload of front delt but not a lot of the other delt heads.

A bodybuilder isolates muscles and aims to hypertrophy all aspects of the muscle. For example, to build shoulders, benching and military pressing is not enough since they mainly focus on front delts. They put effort into the other delt heads even though this may not result in much improvement in bench/military performance.

If all muscles that were bigger were actually stronger then people taking synthol would end up being able to lift a lot more. The thing is, even in the link you shown here, it shows that sarcoplasm is indeed fluid and they basically reach a limit to how much they can hold dictated by the size of the myofibrils. Not everyone is smart enough to know this so we do have a lot of "bodybuilders" who basically just keep doing high reps all day looking as puffy as ever. Not all people who work out know what they are doing. The link you shown even mentions the guys doing the arm exercises and how one looks weak compared to the other. Plus like your link says also, they never practice heavy lifting so they never get good at it.

[SuffolkPunch]

If all muscles that were bigger were actually stronger then people taking synthol would end up being able to lift a lot more. The thing is, even in the link you shown here, it shows that sarcoplasm is indeed fluid and they basically reach a limit to how much they can hold dictated by the size of the myofibrils. Not everyone is smart enough to know this so we do have a lot of "bodybuilders" who basically just keep doing high reps all day looking as puffy as ever. Not all people who work out know what they are doing. The link you shown even mentions the guys doing the arm exercises and how one looks weak compared to the other. Plus like your link says also, they never practice heavy lifting so they never get good at it.

Synthol is a foreign substance, let's not change the subject. You were talking about (allegedly) different types of hypertrophy. Although you appear to be changing your claim from "you can increase sarcoplasm in isolation" to "some dumb people think you can increase sarcoplasm in isolation"

Quoting your original post:

The other thing is that there are people that train for size alone. They typically work with "sarcoplasmic hypertrophy" which means they build up muscle size but this hypertrophy doesn't really give any strength as it is mainly fluid in the muscles and not muscle fibers. This hypertrophy is obtained by high rep ranges. The issue to worry about here is that if people keep training in such a fashion they end up getting a "puffed up" look instead of looking hard and chiseled. So training only in that fashion is not always the best idea. So if a guy only cares about physique, they'll go this route.

I don't think you understood the article. It states that sarcoplasm is always in proportion to myofibrillar increases. In other words - no such think as puffy muscle. It talks about a SLIGHT difference due to glycogen loading from high reps vs. low reps but it would have almost no qualitative (i.e. "puffy") difference to a muscle.

Bigger is stronger = more sarcoplasm AND more myofibrills.

[ironwill2008]

I've seen this quite a few times, with multiple people. I'll see some ridiculously buff guy, way huger than the majority of guys at the gym, but he'll be lifting tiny weights. Like doing tricep pulldowns with 20 pounds, or bicep curls with 25 pounds?

The weights will seem almost too small to even be a warm up, and they don't appear to be any sort of burn out set either, since he won't be struggling, just working out slow and mellow.

It always blows my mind when I'll be power lifting on a serious 5x5 or 5 3 1 type program, and then see a dude 3 times my size just casually working with tiny weights, wondering how is he so big?

You must be living in some alternate universe than I do, brah.

[MongooseRawr]

Synthol is a foreign substance, let's not change the subject. You were talking about (allegedly) different types of hypertrophy. Although you appear to be changing your claim from "you can increase sarcoplasm in isolation" to "some dumb people think you can increase sarcoplasm in isolation"

Quoting your original post:



I don't think you understood the article. It states that sarcoplasm is always in proportion to myofibrillar increases. In other words - no such think as puffy muscle. It talks about a SLIGHT difference due to glycogen loading from high reps vs. low reps but it would have almost no qualitative (i.e. "puffy") difference to a muscle.

Bigger is stronger = more sarcoplasm AND more myofibrills.

There are plenty of people who even admit they got a puffy look and ask how to harden their muscles. I never said that isolation comment either. I said people train high reps all day and never get stronger because they never try to get stronger. They hit a plateau obviously.

[SkydogGinsberg]

There are plenty of people who even admit they got a puffy look and ask how to harden their muscles.

No, the dudes asking about "muscle hardening" are far more often skinny dudes who don't have a muscle base and believe in the puffy muscle myth. Sometimes, lifters who have a lot of bodyfat and just need to lose it for definition. Composition != "puffy/not puffy" muscles. Lean mass:body fat ratio is the key to definition.

[SuffolkPunch]

There are plenty of people who even admit they got a puffy look and ask how to harden their muscles. I never said that isolation comment either. I said people train high reps all day and never get stronger because they never try to get stronger. They hit a plateau obviously.

Puffy = fat

Absolutely nothing to do with the kind of training done.

If there is one thing I've learned over time it's that people consistently underestimate how much bodyfat they have.

Even "skinny" guys can have a high BF% - due to low muscle as much as fat

And people carry fat everywhere - including on arms and legs. You can see this on any 'transformation' where people bulk and cut. They NEVER end up lean but with puffy muscles.

[MongooseRawr]

Puffy = fat

Absolutely nothing to do with the kind of training done.

If there is one thing I've learned over time it's that people consistently underestimate how much bodyfat they have.

Even "skinny" guys can have a high BF% - due to low muscle as much as fat

And people carry fat everywhere - including on arms and legs. You can see this on any 'transformation' where people bulk and cut. They NEVER end up lean but with puffy muscles.

So in short, sarcoplasm is limited by the size of the myofribillis which means high rep training would hit a plateau without strength increases and puffy muscles are from fat?

[SuffolkPunch]

So in short, sarcoplasm is limited by the size of the myofribillis which means high rep training would hit a plateau without strength increases and puffy muscles are from fat?

Depends how high rep we are talking.

Any sensible rep range will increase the size of muscles. Working within the 70-85% of 1RM with sufficient volume will very well IMO. This could be anything from 3 to 12 reps and 2 to 10 sets.

VOLUME is the thing that causes muscle growth and doing volume with low reps will tend to burn you out in very short order. So 5-12 reps is the most common range to train in.

Powerlifters train in this range early on in their peak cycles for a meet. This is to build their muscular base. When they get nearer a meet, they increase intensity and drop volume to polish their 1RMs.

A large bodybuilder could probably curl more than most powerlifters because they don't work their biceps.

The same bodybuilder probably could not match a powerlifters back squat 1RM but I bet he could match their 10RM... this is because weak points in the chain (core strength usually) are not as significant at higher reps.

[rdferguson]

^ I'd add to that point, you could do 10 sets of 3 at 85%1RM and build strength and muscle, but it'd probably take you an hour to get through your 10x3. In the same time you could do 3x10 over 5ish exercises at about 75%1RM, which is a relatively mild reduction in intensity compared to getting 5 times the total volume. For the sake of building muscle, a reduction in intensity by 10% that allows several times the volume is well worth it.

[bubbyau]

Removing any possible influence of drugs, genetics are more important than anything else. Let's not forget that basic fact. Next would be nutrition followed by training. Everyone responds to training differently.

[mdn217]

Hypertrophy

[nathan5]

It's because their advanced. The fact that you see buff guys doing low weights, don't necessarily mean they aren't hardcore or been hardcore. Plus, it doesn't mean you should copy what they are doing.

[Retardo-pex]

I've seen this quite a few times, with multiple people. I'll see some ridiculously buff guy, way huger than the majority of guys at the gym, but he'll be lifting tiny weights. Like doing tricep pulldowns with 20 pounds, or bicep curls with 25 pounds?

The weights will seem almost too small to even be a warm up, and they don't appear to be any sort of burn out set either, since he won't be struggling, just working out slow and mellow.

It always blows my mind when I'll be power lifting on a serious 5x5 or 5 3 1 type program, and then see a dude 3 times my size just casually working with tiny weights, wondering how is he so big?

If you have no idea what their training schedule is like you can't just take a single exercise or workout out of context and assume they always train that way. That could be their final set of a 30 set arm workout for all you know :P

While not always true, a large muscular person will generally be stronger than a smaller less muscular person. Now I don't mean that everyone who is 220 lbs will be stronger then everyone who is 180 lbs, just that if you take a guy who looks like a professional bodybuilder and put him next to a guy who is decently built but mainly just "works out" the bodybuilder guys is going to be stronger in almost all regards.

Take note at their form and rep speed as well. I remember thinking along the same lines as you when I was in High school training for track and field. I was 150 lbs or so and pretty much only trained in the lower rep ranges while guys twice my size weren't touching the weights I was, they were using a reasonable portion of my weight to do set after set after set with at higher volumes and potentially much less rest in between.

[zerocoolflo]

Why? Steroids can keep and build your muscle mass no matter the weight used. simple story...