How long did it take you to go from 20% to 10%?

[unleashthelion]

I am hoping to do this in the next few months and I was wondering how long it took some of you to do it.

I did a Bod Pod session today and it pegged me as:

LBM = 157 (was 158 on 6/1)
Fat = 40 (was 49 on 6/1)
Weight = 197 (was 207 on 6/1)
BF% = 20 (was 23 on 6/1)

I have noticed the LBM loss has been slowing down, as of late. I am hoping to get to 153-155 of LBM and 15-17 of Fat (170lbs total).

Would appreciate any anecdotes, predictions, advice, experiences, or whatever else you got!

Will rep!

[GettinCutup]

I am hoping to do this in the next few months and I was wondering how long it took some of you to do it.

I did a Bod Pod session today and it pegged me as:

LBM = 157 (was 158 on 6/1)
Fat = 40 (was 49 on 6/1)
Weight = 197 (was 207 on 6/1)
BF% = 20 (was 23 on 6/1)

I have noticed the LBM loss has been slowing down, as of late. I am hoping to get to 153-155 of LBM and 15-17 of Fat (170lbs total).

Would appreciate any anecdotes, predictions, advice, experiences, or whatever else you got!

Will rep!

You could probably get close in 3 1/2 months.

[Ryeno]

You'll need around 30 lb of bodyweight lost to achieve that goal. (1 lb bodyweight fat = .85 lb pure fat, .15 lb lean mass) So average 1 lb a week fat loss means it'll take 30 wks or close to half a year. ^Doing it in 3 months would require a VERY strict diet and trust me the last 5-10lb are the absolute hardest.

[GettinCutup]

You'll need around 30 lb of bodyweight lost to achieve that goal. (1 lb bodyweight fat = .85 lb pure fat, .15 lb lean mass) So average 1 lb a week fat loss means it'll take 30 wks or close to half a year. ^Doing it in 3 months would require a VERY strict diet and trust me the last 5-10lb are the absolute hardest.

At 1 pound a week, it would take around 6 months or so. I answered assuming around 2 pounds a week. I wouldn't try to lose much more than that.

[unleashthelion]

Thanks. Couple questions:

1. Is the .15lb of lean mass fat's connective tissue? I knew that a certain proportion of fat loss was LBM loss (even if you can mitigate that loss by putting on other lean tissue); is that it?
2. Why do you think the last 5-10lbs is the hardest?

[DeutschAmerika]

Very similar stats and goals

Except I'm
6ft1
200lbs
20%bf

Starting cutting yesterday

[mikegt87]

I went from >25% BF to around 10% in about a year.. pepper yourself for a long never ending cut. Will be worth it though

[unleashthelion]

Very similar stats and goals

Except I'm
6ft1
200lbs
20%bf

Starting cutting yesterday

Good luck, man!

Mike, congrats. It really doesn't matter how long it takes; like you said, it'll be worth it no matter what. I may be a bit more aggressive in my cut than you were; I'm projecting 6 months at most to go from 25% to 10% (was at 25% in early May).

[razor23]

At 1 pound a week, it would take around 6 months or so. I answered assuming around 2 pounds a week. I wouldn't try to lose much more than that.

Trying to lose 2 lbs a week every week for 3 months would not be easy unless OP was really obese which, from his stats, he isn't. 5-6 months is probably more realistic.

[MrM27]

I will let you know when I get there. I have no idea where I am anymore. I kind of stopped worrying about it.

At this point I don't really lose much weight weekly. I'm just going to continue going hard through the summer then reverse diet and bulk in the fall until Feb.

My favorite part about going below 15/16% was the change in the mirror. It's very motivating.

[superwelter]

I will let you know when I get there. I have no idea where I am anymore. I kind of stopped worrying about it.

At this point I don't really lose much weight weekly. I'm just going to continue going hard through the summer then reverse diet and bulk in the fall until Feb.

My favorite part about going below 15/16% was the change in the mirror. It's very motivating.

I got to about 11% last year which is the lowest for me... it took me about 4months to do it without closely monitoring my macros from ~18-20%... after a year of lifting and watching diet, i can now cut down pretty smoothly over 12 weeks...

[vismal]

Getting from 20 to 15 is SO MUCH EASIER than getting from 15 to 10. It's hard to say why exactly that is. It just is. It seems like even if you are refeeding, taking diet breaks, and keeping up with a reasonable caloric deficit it just takes longer. Usually you have been cutting for so long that metabolic slowdown has occurred, your gym sessions begin to suffer as well. When I was fat I never understood lifting becoming more difficult while cutting. I was still able to put on strength no problem. Once I hit sub 15% it all hit me at once. The gym becomes a struggle. Volume and frequency are forced to go down simply to maintain strength. The mental side of cutting can become difficult as well. When fat I was cutting on 2000 calories with little issue. Now that I am lean I cut on 2600 calories and it feels like I'm starving myself. That being said, it's still just a matter of caloric deficit over a period of time. Just know that for me at least, and many others I know, it ended up taking longer than planned to get to 10% body fat.

[unleashthelion]

Vismal, much appreciated; I was hoping for a personal story like that -- thank you for sharing.

With me, I won't be refeeding or taking breaks; as for metabolic slowdown, I think I have been enduring it for months (my hormones have been shot for the past 8+ months) but that isn't to say that it won't get even more powerful as I get leaner. As for the whoosh effect, stalling, and water retention -- I almost feel like I am at the point where I ONLY lose weight in bunches; 3 weeks no loss - 8lbs in 7 days, 4 weeks no loss - 9lbs in 11 days, etc.

My lifts are all far under what they were months ago and I am starting to balance strength work with higher rep work for sanity.

In all honesty, since I have been cutting for so long (almost a year and a half), I think I have already "enjoyed" most of the challenges people encounter from 15-10; however, this means I could already be accustomed to it and it won't hit too hard - or it will strike down with the fury of a thousand suns because it's going to strike an already battleworn man, haha.

I gotta say that I still find myself having to eat when I'm not hungry (and I'm on 1800 calories a day), so the eating has been a breeze. I guess time will tell whether or not this becomes a lot more difficult; it's just really helpful to be prepared for that possibility and to keep it in perspective that I have, for the most part, breezed through the first year and a half and if I need to grit my teeth and work through the pain in the last 6 months -- I should probably consider myself fortunate for having it as good as I did for as long as I did.

I hate to be arrogant but I have a really strong feeling that I'll be able to be 6'0 170lbs at 10% by October 1st; I could be dead wrong and only time will tell, but let's just say this journey has surprised me every step of the way and it is possible that I still have this one trick up my sleeve If I don't, I just need to remember that time doesn't matter and I just need to keep pressing forward until I reach my goal.

[deadliftdang]

You'll need to refeed once you get below 14% or so. Don't put your foot down and act as if a refeed or a diet break is for people who are undisciplined. There are numerous physiological benefits and in fact I'd argue that it is counterproductive to not do refeeds once you are leaner. I started at around 206 lbs at 21% in February and am currently 182 at 12.5% or so after 2 diet breaks throughout the entire cut of a week at maintenance. I do not regret them - they allowed me to keep progressing. I started cutting on 2750 calories and am now down to eating only 2340 so it goes to show how your maintenance goes down when weight is lost. I did not begin any refeeds until I was in the high 180s and below 14-15%, they just weren't necessary. But they allow me to absolutely destroy the gym the following day.

[vismal]

Not refeeding or taking breaks is counter productive and will make it take longer to reach your goals. Refeeds when done correctly don't slow you down in the least. They actually make it easier to maintain strength as well. As far as diet breaks. The 2 weeks of eating at maintenance actually do a lot of good in helping to raise you BMR. I know it seems like they will just stretch the journey out even longer but they really don't. Lyle talks about it in great detail here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...iet-break.html

[stevenning1025]

Getting from 20 to 15 is SO MUCH EASIER than getting from 15 to 10. It's hard to say why exactly that is. It just is. It seems like even if you are refeeding, taking diet breaks, and keeping up with a reasonable caloric deficit it just takes longer. Usually you have been cutting for so long that metabolic slowdown has occurred, your gym sessions begin to suffer as well. When I was fat I never understood lifting becoming more difficult while cutting. I was still able to put on strength no problem. Once I hit sub 15% it all hit me at once. The gym becomes a struggle. Volume and frequency are forced to go down simply to maintain strength. The mental side of cutting can become difficult as well. When fat I was cutting on 2000 calories with little issue. Now that I am lean I cut on 2600 calories and it feels like I'm starving myself. That being said, it's still just a matter of caloric deficit over a period of time. Just know that for me at least, and many others I know, it ended up taking longer than planned to get to 10% body fat.

^this

the lower bf% you get, the harder it is since your body wants to hold on to the fat. 20-15 is a BIG DIFF from 15-10, dont even wanna get started on 10-5

[Electricheadd]

Thanks. Couple questions:

1. Is the .15lb of lean mass fat's connective tissue? I knew that a certain proportion of fat loss was LBM loss (even if you can mitigate that loss by putting on other lean tissue); is that it?
2. Why do you think the last 5-10lbs is the hardest?

1) Yes that would seem right in line with what we see from others.
2) Its a matter of mobilizing the fatty acids into the blood stream at that point. Think of your fat as a sponge that your passing blood through, as it passes through it picks up those fatty acids along the way. When you had a lot of fat the surface area of the sponge was much larger and you could get a lot more fat into the blood stream. The last 5-10lbs your sponge is much smaller.

[Ryeno]

Thanks. Couple questions:

1. Is the .15lb of lean mass fat's connective tissue? I knew that a certain proportion of fat loss was LBM loss (even if you can mitigate that loss by putting on other lean tissue); is that it?
2. Why do you think the last 5-10lbs is the hardest?

Yes. 1 lb of bodyweight fat lost is only ~6/7 lb of pure fat so by default when you lose body fat you will lose lean body mass & that doesn't include any extra muscle you might lose.
2) Lots of diff reasons. I started at ~190 lb at 25% 9 months ago. Now I am down to 156 14% so that's an average of 3-4lb a month fat loss. Not bad but not the best either. I struggle with the intense hunger pains that can ruin a whole weeks worth of deficit. Lifts have all staggered and I don't really have the energy to push myself in the gym. Not like it matter since I can't build muscle.

If you can even hit 1lb a week that's already good IMO, doing 2 lb a week will be brutal.

[csb5731]

Getting from 20 to 15 is SO MUCH EASIER than getting from 15 to 10. It's hard to say why exactly that is. It just is. It seems like even if you are refeeding, taking diet breaks, and keeping up with a reasonable caloric deficit it just takes longer. Usually you have been cutting for so long that metabolic slowdown has occurred, your gym sessions begin to suffer as well. When I was fat I never understood lifting becoming more difficult while cutting. I was still able to put on strength no problem. Once I hit sub 15% it all hit me at once. The gym becomes a struggle. Volume and frequency are forced to go down simply to maintain strength. The mental side of cutting can become difficult as well. When fat I was cutting on 2000 calories with little issue. Now that I am lean I cut on 2600 calories and it feels like I'm starving myself. That being said, it's still just a matter of caloric deficit over a period of time. Just know that for me at least, and many others I know, it ended up taking longer than planned to get to 10% body fat.

This mimics my experience. Dieting down to about 15% or so was mostly about breaking old habits and making new ones, I never actually felt bad. Generally, if I was eating mostly more satiating foods, I didn't have any hunger issues. I wondered what the whining was about, I mean I missed pitchers of beer and platters of nachos, but that was pretty much it. I was getting fitter and in many ways stronger and losing at a good clip. I have no idea what my hormones where like during that state of dieting, but I didn't feel bad, I seem to recall feeling better than when I wasn't dieting.

But somewhere around the mid teens or so something definitely changed for me, it's like I suddenly became aware that my body was in an energy deficit, because I felt it. In the morning, getting out of bed, at the gym, and at work. Hunger was more of an issue, but it wasn't nearly the problem that cravings became in terms of distractions. My near pathological pacing habit was cured. In retrospect, I am sure I started burning less calories on a daily basis because I didn't feel like doing a whole lot. Also, cold in a 70 F office, numb/cold hands while hiking outdoors in June. In the gym, tanking lifts, it was like I was on an Atkins diet except I wasn't. I quit dieting more than once because of this, even if I wasn't "burning muscle" in the acute sense, I figured that I wouldn't be maintaining it with such dramatic reductions in weights and it was at the very least embarrassing. In my case, as with some of the others above, some sort of refeed strategy ended up being the singular crucial factor to me sticking it out - I was able to for the most part maintain lifts and I didn't feel like crap 100% of the time.

As Electricheadd pointed out above, body fat reserves DON'T seem to be like a gas tank in a car. Meaning, a fuel line draining from the bottom, pumped out by a fuel pump, at the same rate whether 100% full or 10% full. And even if it did "model" this way, there certainly seems to be feedback mechanisms in place to make it unlikely that you will be burning stored fat at the same high rate as you did when you where fat. The body isn't going to make starving pleasant, and if you think your body can distinguish the difference between starving and you cutting 2 lbs per week for aesthetics, when you are already lean, you are mistaken.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your aggressive targets, you have reason to be optimistic considering your progress so far (though I think 5-6 months would be very solid) but I think your refusal to consider that something might change in terms of best strategies means that you haven't hit the point at which we are talking about yet, current "shot" hormones aside. Depressed (reproductive and whatnot) hormones are merely a possible/likely side effect of a long-standing deficit. More direct repercussions due to the lack of immediately available energy to meet acute expenditure "intentions" is different and IMO a new level of complication and worthy of considering mitigating strategies.

[scots40]

This mimics my experience. Dieting down to about 15% or so was mostly about breaking old habits and making new ones, I never actually felt bad. Generally, if I was eating mostly more satiating foods, I didn't have any hunger issues. I wondered what the whining was about, I mean I missed pitchers of beer and platters of nachos, but that was pretty much it. I was getting fitter and in many ways stronger and losing at a good clip. I have no idea what my hormones where like during that state of dieting, but I didn't feel bad, I seem to recall feeling better than when I wasn't dieting.

But somewhere around the mid teens or so something definitely changed for me, it's like I suddenly became aware that my body was in an energy deficit, because I felt it. In the morning, getting out of bed, at the gym, and at work. Hunger was more of an issue, but it wasn't nearly the problem that cravings became in terms of distractions. My near pathological pacing habit was cured. In retrospect, I am sure I started burning less calories on a daily basis because I didn't feel like doing a whole lot. Also, cold in a 70 F office, numb/cold hands while hiking outdoors in June. In the gym, tanking lifts, it was like I was on an Atkins diet except I wasn't. I quit dieting more than once because of this, even if I wasn't "burning muscle" in the acute sense, I figured that I wouldn't be maintaining it with such dramatic reductions in weights and it was at the very least embarrassing. In my case, as with some of the others above, some sort of refeed strategy ended up being the singular crucial factor to me sticking it out - I was able to for the most part maintain lifts and I didn't feel like crap 100% of the time.

As Electricheadd pointed out above, body fat reserves DON'T seem to be like a gas tank in a car. Meaning, a fuel line draining from the bottom, pumped out by a fuel pump, at the same rate whether 100% full or 10% full. And even if it did "model" this way, there certainly seems to be feedback mechanisms in place to make it unlikely that you will be burning stored fat at the same high rate as you did when you where fat. The body isn't going to make starving pleasant, and if you think your body can distinguish the difference between starving and you cutting 2 lbs per week for aesthetics, when you are already lean, you are mistaken.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your aggressive targets, you have reason to be optimistic considering your progress so far (though I think 5-6 months would be very solid) but I think your refusal to consider that something might change in terms of best strategies means that you haven't hit the point at which we are talking about yet, current "shot" hormones aside. Depressed (reproductive and whatnot) hormones are merely a possible/likely side effect of a long-standing deficit. More direct repercussions due to the lack of immediately available energy to meet acute expenditure "intentions" is different and IMO a new level of complication and worthy of considering mitigating strategies.

Same here. Getting down to 15% for me was all about just changing my eating habits, or really just being more conscious about what I was eating in general. Then at about 15% my body finally realized what the hell I was doing to it and pulled the emergency brake. Lifts stopped going up, weight loss slowed down, random cold chills even though I wasn't in keto. I think that when you actually have some solid lbm that you are trying to hold on to it's so much harder than just dropping bf% in general. If I didn't care about losing lbm I could just continue to eat a deficit and not worry about macros and I'm sure I'd feel 10 times better. Getting to 180lbs at 10% bf is much harder than being 165lbs and 10% bf

[Serpentarius]

about 10 weeks

[Ryeno]

The problem is your body can't extract 3500 calories instantaneously, it requires time. So less overall body fat = less places to pull fat = less energy to take & slower fat loss.

[unleashthelion]

deadliftdang and Vismal, I don't think refeeds are for the undisciplined -- nor would I worry about it causing me to stop my cut; I just don't think there is enough clear evidence that shows it would be worth doing (for someone in my rather unique situation). It hasn't been shown that any effects of temporarily reducing the lowered thyroid and leptin on one's metabolism (BMR) would be enough to justify an additional 14000 calorie (14 days at an extra 1000 calories a day)/per refeed "surplus" (as that is what it would be for me to eat above my cutting number); I am also not confident that any benefit to my performance in the gym would justify such a course of action. Psychologically, I don't think it would do much for me as I am 100% going to get down to 10% - no matter what - and any benefit to my mood or quality of life is irrelevant to my weight loss (assuming I am able to keep up the same activity level and eating habits, and I do).

Vismal, why are you confident that reducing my cutting deficit over the next few months by 14,000 calories through refeeding would be counteracted enough by the benefits so as 'they don't stretch the journey out even longer'?

[unleashthelion]

stevenning1025, how does the body "hold on to the fat" when you get leaner? If you are maintaining the deficit at 13% that you had at 23%, how can the body not draw on the fat stores at the same rate? Would it take it from lean body mass? The body may not want to lose the fat and it may slow down your sex drive, slow hair growth, and employ other energy-saving methods but if you were able to actually maintain the same caloric deficit -- what would the body do to meet those energy requirements? Further, if my LBM doesn't come down - wouldn't my body fat have to be going down? Interestingly enough, I lost a far lower percentage of LBM between 30-20% than I did 40-30%.

Ryeno, then how does your body deal with the caloric deficit you're running at? How does it accommodate your body's energy requirements?

Electricheadd, perhaps this is the reason behind squishy fat; maybe the body breaks the fat down so it covers more area for easier blood flow to the fat.

[lucksterx]

This mimics my experience. Dieting down to about 15% or so was mostly about breaking old habits and making new ones, I never actually felt bad. Generally, if I was eating mostly more satiating foods, I didn't have any hunger issues. I wondered what the whining was about, I mean I missed pitchers of beer and platters of nachos, but that was pretty much it. I was getting fitter and in many ways stronger and losing at a good clip. I have no idea what my hormones where like during that state of dieting, but I didn't feel bad, I seem to recall feeling better than when I wasn't dieting.

But somewhere around the mid teens or so something definitely changed for me, it's like I suddenly became aware that my body was in an energy deficit, because I felt it. In the morning, getting out of bed, at the gym, and at work. Hunger was more of an issue, but it wasn't nearly the problem that cravings became in terms of distractions. My near pathological pacing habit was cured. In retrospect, I am sure I started burning less calories on a daily basis because I didn't feel like doing a whole lot. Also, cold in a 70 F office, numb/cold hands while hiking outdoors in June. In the gym, tanking lifts, it was like I was on an Atkins diet except I wasn't. I quit dieting more than once because of this, even if I wasn't "burning muscle" in the acute sense, I figured that I wouldn't be maintaining it with such dramatic reductions in weights and it was at the very least embarrassing. In my case, as with some of the others above, some sort of refeed strategy ended up being the singular crucial factor to me sticking it out - I was able to for the most part maintain lifts and I didn't feel like crap 100% of the time.

As Electricheadd pointed out above, body fat reserves DON'T seem to be like a gas tank in a car. Meaning, a fuel line draining from the bottom, pumped out by a fuel pump, at the same rate whether 100% full or 10% full. And even if it did "model" this way, there certainly seems to be feedback mechanisms in place to make it unlikely that you will be burning stored fat at the same high rate as you did when you where fat. The body isn't going to make starving pleasant, and if you think your body can distinguish the difference between starving and you cutting 2 lbs per week for aesthetics, when you are already lean, you are mistaken.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your aggressive targets, you have reason to be optimistic considering your progress so far (though I think 5-6 months would be very solid) but I think your refusal to consider that something might change in terms of best strategies means that you haven't hit the point at which we are talking about yet, current "shot" hormones aside. Depressed (reproductive and whatnot) hormones are merely a possible/likely side effect of a long-standing deficit. More direct repercussions due to the lack of immediately available energy to meet acute expenditure "intentions" is different and IMO a new level of complication and worthy of considering mitigating strategies.

Jesus, this hit right home. Not too long ago, I looked at my FatSecret logs for back when I was 190~200lb, I was consuming 1700-2000 calories no problem. I would even force down protein shakes at the end of the day to hit protein macros. Yes, force. Recently, I'm finding it hard to adhere to a deficit consistently. I'll have a set of 2-3 days where I'll hit macros extremely well, calorie intake is on point, feeling great, lifts are stable (if not getting better); then the 4th, 5th day rolls around and I start feeling sluggish, no desire to go to the gym, hungry, cold. Cold to the point where I'm in the lab with a moderately padded jacket on and my co-workers have T-shirts on with personal fans blowing on themselves.

I'm not necessarily eating calorie dense foods that provide little hunger gratification either. I started eating out less and cooking more veggies with lean meats and poly/monosaturated fats (i.e. fitting more quantity in fewer calories) and it doesn't last like it used to.

edit: It's all in them feels. You become conscious of the feelings csb mentioned, whereas you didn't have them before (or maybe they weren't as severe and thus not nearly as noticeable). It becomes an actual fight, you are literally fighting your body (fists and everything) with your mind, day after day. I can only do it for so long before I'm overwhelmed by the conscious efforts. If you can control these, more power to you...

[macsm01]

Getting from 20 to 15 is SO MUCH EASIER than getting from 15 to 10. It's hard to say why exactly that is. It just is. It seems like even if you are refeeding, taking diet breaks, and keeping up with a reasonable caloric deficit it just takes longer. Usually you have been cutting for so long that metabolic slowdown has occurred, your gym sessions begin to suffer as well. When I was fat I never understood lifting becoming more difficult while cutting. I was still able to put on strength no problem. Once I hit sub 15% it all hit me at once. The gym becomes a struggle. Volume and frequency are forced to go down simply to maintain strength. The mental side of cutting can become difficult as well. When fat I was cutting on 2000 calories with little issue. Now that I am lean I cut on 2600 calories and it feels like I'm starving myself. That being said, it's still just a matter of caloric deficit over a period of time. Just know that for me at least, and many others I know, it ended up taking longer than planned to get to 10% body fat.

I'm more towards your end, I lose strength in my compound lifts and explosion in plyometric type activities. It's a similar feeling to being dehydrated and trying to lift weights. Fat mobilization varies from individual to individual. Some young guys think it's a one size fits all, when in fact, people respond differently to different eating patterns and exercise routines. Nobody can tell OP how long it will take.