Ice Cream Fitness: Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders: Part II

[volkan96]

Going to try the cutting version of this on wednesday

[sgy1111]

My coach amazed when he see my ICF 5x5 program.He said he doesnt recommend this.But of course I do it.It is my 3rd week.But still there are a few questions in my mind.

1- When to do squat and deadlift , first or last ? Or is it important ? For example on workout a there are squat , bp , rows , dips , biceps curls.Which should be worked first and which should be worked last ? Is it better to do squat at first , or even in the middle(like bp , rows , squat , dips , curls ? )

2- I do 2.5 kg increasements on squat for every workout day.How much should i do the increasement for deadlift , it is only at workout b.I see most people lift heavier at deadlift than squat, how much should i increase deadlift weight at every workout B day ? btw i do squat easier than deadlift but i see most people do deadlift easier.

[jetmechG550]

My coach amazed when he see my ICF 5x5 program.He said he doesnt recommend this.But of course I do it.It is my 3rd week.But still there are a few questions in my mind.

1- When to do squat and deadlift , first or last ? Or is it important ? For example on workout a there are squat , bp , rows , dips , biceps curls.Which should be worked first and which should be worked last ? Is it better to do squat at first , or even in the middle(like bp , rows , squat , dips , curls ? )

2- I do 2.5 kg increasements on squat for every workout day.How much should i do the increasement for deadlift , it is only at workout b.I see most people lift heavier at deadlift than squat, how much should i increase deadlift weight at every workout B day ? btw i do squat easier than deadlift but i see most people do deadlift easier.

You do the lifts in order they are listed in the video or the FAQ's. Squats are first because they are one of the most strenuous. You add 5lbs (2.5Kgs) to your core compound (5x5) lifts every time. If you want to add more you will end up stalling faster. The program is designed to get you to failure so the body can adapt and overcome.

[tmckay2]

sorry if this was posted, i looked through several pages on both threads but the video is down, since there is workout a and b do you do workout a, skip a day, workout b, skip a day, work out a, etc? or is it one or the other? probably a stupid question but i looked and couldn't find a clear answer.

[MrRipley]

sorry if this was posted, i looked through several pages on both threads but the video is down, since there is workout a and b do you do workout a, skip a day, workout b, skip a day, work out a, etc? or is it one or the other? probably a stupid question but i looked and couldn't find a clear answer.

It's EOD 3x week

Mon A
Wed B
Fri A

Mond B
Wed A
Fri B

[AlphaQUp4This]

As a skinnyfat, am I better off doing ICF's 5x5 while eating at a maintenance instead of bulking/cutting? I'm a noob, so I would think I could burn fat and gain muscle at the same time right? I'm like 22% bodyfat, but I tried cutting 2 months ago and my metabolism is terrible (from years of yo-yo dieting and being sedentary). I was cutting at 1400 calories and I would barely lose weight (and yes, I count all of my cals).

Wouldn't eating at maintenance while building muscle for the next 6-8 months boost my metabolism and make it easier for me to cut later on at higher calories/more muscle?

[tmckay2]

thank you, that is what i figured, but wanted to be sure.

It's EOD 3x week

Mon A
Wed B
Fri A

Mond B
Wed A
Fri B

[Noodlearms666]

Has anyone had good arm gains with this routine?

[dathtom]

Was doing this for about 3 months, saw good strength gains in pretty much everything, little mass tho, and I stalled on bench for a week or two. Workout partner really wanted to do a split routine so we moved to the third phase of Jim Stoppini's 12wk beginner to advanced (dw I know I'm not going to be advanced in 12wks we just liked the look of the exercises). Is this a massively bad idea? I think I prefer the new one more and my goal was for mass rather than strength which I didn't really see on ICF 5x5. I'm still weak as **** btw, 45kg bench, 60kg squat.

Cheers for anyone to help

[ZRJacques]

Was doing this for about 3 months, saw good strength gains in pretty much everything, little mass tho, and I stalled on bench for a week or two. Workout partner really wanted to do a split routine so we moved to the third phase of Jim Stoppini's 12wk beginner to advanced (dw I know I'm not going to be advanced in 12wks we just liked the look of the exercises). Is this a massively bad idea? I think I prefer the new one more and my goal was for mass rather than strength which I didn't really see on ICF 5x5. I'm still weak as **** btw, 45kg bench, 60kg squat.

Cheers for anyone to help

You're much better off solidifying a strength base before moving on to an intermediate/advanced routine.

[juanmcos]

Don't rep me for this thread, just continuing the thread, due to the first one getting close to 10K posts. I am in no way condoning what Jason did, just simply starting a thread for those of us who follow the program and a place to discuss it.

Workout A
Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
Barbell Shrug 3x8
Skullcrusher 3x8
Chins 3x5-8
or Striaght Bar/Incline Curl 3x8
Hyperextention 2x10
Kneeling Cable Crunch 3x10-20

Workout B
Squat 5x5
Deadlift 1x5
Standing Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5 -10%
CGBP 3x8
Straight Bar or Incline Curl 3x8
Kneeling Cable Crunch 3x10-20

Enjoy and feel free to ask questions, however 99.9% of them will be answered in the FAQ in the next post.

In Workout B, chest is hit by Standing Press and CGBP right?

[HDiddy747]

In Workout B, chest is hit by Standing Press and CGBP right?

Not as a primary muscle, but yes, both of those will hit the chest slightly.

[juanmcos]

Not as a primary muscle, but yes, both of those will hit the chest slightly.

Yeah, thats what I notice. Only Bench Press hit directly on chest (and its only on workout A). It would be a good idea switch CGBP to dips to have more impact on chest? Or maybe Skullcrusher to dips, to have more volume on chest on workout A and let it rest on workout B. What do you think? Maybe its not necesary

[Hunttarded]

A few months ago I made a thread regarding slowed progress so I switched the rep scheme to 3x5 progression for certain lifts and managed to put a couple more pounds on the bar. Now looking back at my log I've noticed I've only managed +10lbs on Bench within the last month - which is less than what I would get with an intermediate routine like Madcow's. Because of this I think Madcow's would better suit me at this point and was curious on whether you guys agree. I also feel the need to deload often, and once I work my way back up to my previous working weight I may add 5-10lbs on the bar (depending on the lift) so it really doesn't justify the time spent on the deload.

Current lifts:
S 285x5
B 190x5
D 360x5
OHP 125x5

I've been using this routine since ~July 2013, started with SS in February 2013.

I think Madcow's would be a good routine to follow now, curious as to your opinions.

[esheg]

Just started this. Hopefully I gain good enough strenght while eating in a small deficit

[MrRipley]

A few months ago I made a thread regarding slowed progress so I switched the rep scheme to 3x5 progression for certain lifts and managed to put a couple more pounds on the bar. Now looking back at my log I've noticed I've only managed +10lbs on Bench within the last month - which is less than what I would get with an intermediate routine like Madcow's. Because of this I think Madcow's would better suit me at this point and was curious on whether you guys agree. I also feel the need to deload often, and once I work my way back up to my previous working weight I may add 5-10lbs on the bar (depending on the lift) so it really doesn't justify the time spent on the deload.

Current lifts:
S 285x5
B 190x5
D 360x5
OHP 125x5

I've been using this routine since ~July 2013, started with SS in February 2013.

I think Madcow's would be a good routine to follow now, curious as to your opinions.

definitely think it would be a good option for you now. Looks like you've built a solid base of muscle and strength. for the reasons listed , i believe an intermediate program would be best suited for your goals.

if you want to do some bodybuilding, HST would be a good choice but Madcows will put meat on you also.

[Hunttarded]

definitely think it would be a good option for you now. Looks like you've built a solid base of muscle and strength. for the reasons listed , i believe an intermediate program would be best suited for your goals.

if you want to do some bodybuilding, HST would be a good choice but Madcows will put meat on you also.

Thanks. I've looked into HST also, but I don't like the idea of 10 rep compounds. I think it'll be too difficult to progress (strength-wise). I also only use barbell movements (home gym) so I'm limited in my exercises.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the difference isn't too big in terms of putting on size between the two routines? I would probably add just a little accessory work.

[MrRipley]

Thanks. I've looked into HST also, but I don't like the idea of 10 rep compounds. I think it'll be too difficult to progress (strength-wise). I also only use barbell movements (home gym) so I'm limited in my exercises.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the difference isn't too big in terms of putting on size between the two routines? I would probably add just a little accessory work.

strength wise progression will be pretty decent. you'll be doing your 5 rep max for multiple sets by about week 6.

The difference isn't large at all, given that size is a product of diet as you know by now. I think maybe if you burn out on Madcows then you can do the deconditioning and go straight into HST. You use multiple rep ranges.

Strength wise i was stuck benching 275 ( 122.5kg) for a 5 rep max on HST but now i'm doing it comfortably for 2-3x 5. I'd say that is a good strength gain in such a short time.

It's more for advanced bbers to be honest , i don't think i should be doing it yet but i wanted to try higher reps. Anyways sorry for the rant but those are my thoughts. You'll make sick mass and strength gains on mad cows so don't worry.


i would save HST for a bit later maybe when it gets hard as phuck to squat over 400lbs for reps and bench 315 or something.

[esheg]

Will I make good gains if I clean bulk on this? I have 2.5 years of training, but I still consider myself a beginner. What do u brahs think? I want my body composition to changeee

Been experimenting too much for 2.5 years. I need a program thats gonna bring good results physically and of course getting stronger

[MrRipley]

Will I make good gains if I clean bulk on this? I have 2.5 years of training, but I still consider myself a beginner. What do u brahs think? I want my body composition to changeee

Been experimenting too much for 2.5 years. I need a program thats gonna bring good results physically and of course getting stronger

yep you'll make great gains. body composition is diet so get that in order.

[Hunttarded]

strength wise progression will be pretty decent. you'll be doing your 5 rep max for multiple sets by about week 6.

The difference isn't large at all, given that size is a product of diet as you know by now. I think maybe if you burn out on Madcows then you can do the deconditioning and go straight into HST. You use multiple rep ranges.

Strength wise i was stuck benching 275 ( 122.5kg) for a 5 rep max on HST but now i'm doing it comfortably for 2-3x 5. I'd say that is a good strength gain in such a short time.

It's more for advanced bbers to be honest , i don't think i should be doing it yet but i wanted to try higher reps. Anyways sorry for the rant but those are my thoughts. You'll make sick mass and strength gains on mad cows so don't worry.


i would save HST for a bit later maybe when it gets hard as phuck to squat over 400lbs for reps and bench 315 or something.

Thanks alot for the help and holy **** that is a crazy bench. All the best and good luck with your goals!

[MrRipley]

Thanks alot for the help and holy **** that is a crazy bench. All the best and good luck with your goals!

thanks man. no worries i enjoy helping people who actually put in the work. You too.


Also my advice for mad cows, don't gain more than 1b a week. I did it on HST, got a bit chubbier than i would have liked.

[Hunttarded]

thanks man. no worries i enjoy helping people who actually put in the work. You too.


Also my advice for mad cows, don't gain more than 1b a week. I did it on HST, got a bit chubbier than i would have liked.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks. Gonna need to drop the cals a bit I reckon now that uni's done.

[esheg]

Would cardio be a good idea on rest days? Only ask so I can manage insulin sensitivity. Something like a 20-30 min jog 3x a week? If u saw my last post and pic im skinny fat and I want to gain more muscle than fat. So my surplus is very small. Im also doing high carb on training days and lower carbs on rest days.

[MrRipley]

I'll keep that in mind, thanks. Gonna need to drop the cals a bit I reckon now that uni's done.

dasit. mad cows is gonna make you strong as phuck pretty quickly.

[MrRipley]

Would cardio be a good idea on rest days? Only ask so I can manage insulin sensitivity. Something like a 20-30 min jog 3x a week? If u saw my last post and pic im skinny fat and I want to gain more muscle than fat. So my surplus is very small. Im also doing high carb on training days and lower carbs on rest days.

insulin sensitivity is a non issue in active healthy males. i would eat in a small surplus 200-300 and as a beginner you may well find yourself recomping a little.

don't overthink it. do cardio for health, let the diet determine your gains.

[esheg]

insulin sensitivity is a non issue in active healthy males. i would eat in a small surplus 200-300 and as a beginner you may well find yourself recomping a little.

don't overthink it. do cardio for health, let the diet determine your gains.

What defines a beginner? I have been in the gym for 2.5 years but my physique doesn't show that obviously.

[Hunttarded]

What defines a beginner? I have been in the gym for 2.5 years but my physique doesn't show that obviously.

Lifts and ability to progress on a workout-workout basis.

[MrRipley]

What defines a beginner? I have been in the gym for 2.5 years but my physique doesn't show that obviously.

number of factors. basically when you can't add weight/ reps every workout then you're still a beginner. when you've gained that first 10-20lbs of muscle ( lean tissue not bloat) then you'll be done with those noob gains.

strength wise if you're benching 2 plates a side 225/100 kilos for easy reps and multiple sets squatting 3 plates a side for easy reps multiple sets and deadlifting 4 plates ( although deadlifts are a tough lift and dependant on leverages as some people are amazing at them due to limb length) you'll have a decent base of muscle mass.

basically after a 9 months to a year of hard training not half assed bullchit then these noob programs stop working.

[MrRipley]

Lifts and ability to progress on a workout-workout basis.

This. see my more longwinded explanation.