Ice Cream Fitness: Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders: Part II

[APCY]

Switch to 3x5 on compounds and 2x8 on accessory lifts.

What if i would do 5x5? Would it be bad?

[HDiddy747]

What if i would do 5x5? Would it be bad?

You'll pretty quickly go into 'over training' mode with such high volume at a caloric deficit.
When you get there, you'll be feeling tired, sleepy, burnt out and likely need to take a week off, or with significantly reduced volume.

Remember, when cutting, your main goal will be to maintain muscle, lose fat, and possibly gain a tad bit of strength.
No need to do so much volume to meet those goals.

[APCY]

You'll pretty quickly go into 'over training' mode with such high volume at a caloric deficit.
When you get there, you'll be feeling tired, sleepy, burnt out and likely need to take a week off, or with significantly reduced volume.

Remember, when cutting, your main goal will be to maintain muscle, lose fat, and possibly gain a tad bit of strength.
No need to do so much volume to meet those goals.

Makes sense, thank you.

[InfernoUk]

hey guys

Im about to hit 18 months on ICF no modifications.

I want to move away from strength to more hypertrophy based routine. Any recommended follow ons from the ICF to something less strength focused?

Cheers!

[MrRipley]

hey guys

im about to hit 18 months on icf no modifications.

I want to move away from strength to more hypertrophy based routine. Any recommended follow ons from the icf to something less strength focused?

Cheers!

HST http://hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html

[InfernoUk]

HST http://hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html

isnt hst basically ICF with different reps? only looked briefly

[DirtyBulkUmad]

Currently logging this routine (near the end of my bulk about to begin cut), in case anyone happens to give a phuk.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1220760151

[Twon91]

Beginner getting back into it.
It's an off-day.
Doing workout B tomorrow and hollllyyycrap is my entire body sore.
Am I still good to workout out thru the soreness tomorrow?
I just don't want my strength to suffer.

[HDiddy747]

Beginner getting back into it.
It's an off-day.
Doing workout B tomorrow and hollllyyycrap is my entire body sore.
Am I still good to workout out thru the soreness tomorrow?
I just don't want my strength to suffer.

Yes you are. I was there about a month ago, and pulled through it.

propert warmup and stretching will help a lot

[Benkei123]

should I really lower the volume when cutting on this program?

wouldnt that mean I also would lose strenght and size?

[Twon91]

Yes you are. I was there about a month ago, and pulled through it.

propert warmup and stretching will help a lot

Alright thanks.

[HDiddy747]

should I really lower the volume when cutting on this program?

wouldnt that mean I also would lose strenght and size?

Yes, you should.
Even if you don't, you'll reach a point where you are overtrained and feel like crap which will force you to take a bit of a break and lower the volume anyway. might as well do it now...

No you won't lose strength and size by lowering the volume.

Remember, while cutting, your goals are
1) lose fat
2) maintain muscle
3) maintain (or slightly gain) strength

the very high volume of ICF is not required for that.

In fact, i've been bulking with the cutting version of a modified ICF..

[MrRipley]

isnt hst basically ICF with different reps? only looked briefly

It's preiodisation bro. Increase loads , increase strength and size. It's a pure bber routine.

[sgy1111]

Splits aren't necessary for beginners to get optimal growth. This program is written for beginners. If you are not a beginner there are other programs out there for you. YES the compounds written in the program are enough to make your arms grow.

Your shoulders get stimulated in every exercise in workout A. Exercises that will aid in shoulder growth are the bench, row and chins.

Your first aim should be to build a strong foundation and that is why this program starts out with the KING barbell squat. Don't get hung up on specific areas of your body at this point at the entire thing should be lagging. Focus on the entire program as whole.

Thanks a lot for reply.

I have another questions about ICF.I start this for over 1 week but my problem is that I can do only 3 or maybe 4 chin ups in first set , than it is getting harder to get 2-3 reps.So what should I do , I cant do 3x8 on chin ups now ? I have never do chin up before starting icf , so I just do it for 1 week.Should I replace it by another exercise or should I do 3xmax set chin ups + extra any exercise like biceps curl on workout A ?

Second question.I can't do dips a lot as well.I can do 'half dips' for 3x8 but can't do normal dips exercise more than 3 or 4 reps in one set.What should I do ? Or doing 5x5 till getting stronger makes sense for chinups and dips ?

[Turbs]

Thanks a lot for reply.

I have another questions about ICF.I start this for over 1 week but my problem is that I can do only 3 or maybe 4 chin ups in first set , than it is getting harder to get 2-3 reps.So what should I do , I cant do 3x8 on chin ups now ? I have never do chin up before starting icf , so I just do it for 1 week.Should I replace it by another exercise or should I do 3xmax set chin ups + extra any exercise like biceps curl on workout A ?

Second question.I can't do dips a lot as well.I can do 'half dips' for 3x8 but can't do normal dips exercise more than 3 or 4 reps in one set.What should I do ? Or doing 5x5 till getting stronger makes sense for chinups and dips ?

Do either assisted chin ups or lat pulldowns to replace chins and do close grip bench press instead of dips until you're able to perform the appropriate reps.

[ScrawnyMcBrawny]

Hello everyone! I have been lifting for 2 weeks and I'm starting to get serious about it, though for personal reasons I do all my workouts at home and will continue to do so. I have a bench with racks, I could use these racks to get under the bar for front/back squats but I have no squat rack or power rack and my weight plates are cement-filled - I use a rug on top of a concrete floor. I am not doing front or back squats as I do not want to be in a position where I may have to drop the bar if something should go wrong as I do not want to damage the plates, but I want to make sure I can lift in relative safety without a squat rack or power cage.

I do plan to get a power cage, but I am dirt poor at the moment, so cut me a little slack, I'll get there.

So here is my question - I have done workout A once and used Zercher squats with this routine and was wondering if this is the best squat variation to use with ICF given my position, or if it would be better with this routine to use hack squats or Jefferson squats or some other variation? I am also open to the idea of using one variation with workout A and another with workout B. I am aware there is no best type of squat per se but I assume some will fit better than others with this routine. I want to build muscle evenly and avoid messing things up too badly with my nooby modifications which is why I ask.


Below this point I am making notes to track my progress.
I have been lifting 3x a week for 2 weeks and did absolutely no exercise prior to this, I am 22 years old, approximately 6ft tall and 160lbs - 14% of which I estimate is body fat. I am bulking on a keto diet (for medical reasons) of primarily a DIY "soylent" (for health reasons) and am consuming 3000+kcal per day. I would love to be 220lbs and 10% fat by the year's end but do not necessarily expect to be.

These are my weights for workout A done 2 days ago, I feel I should have gone heavier on the compound lifts. These figures are in kg, to quickly and roughly convert to lbs double the number then add 10%.

Zercher squats 5x5x46kg
Bench press 5x5x31kg
Bent over row 5x5x41kg
Barbell shrugs 3x8x51kg
Skull crushers 3x8x16kg
Barbell curls 3x8x16kg
Swiss ball hyperextensions 2x10
Crunches 3x20

The hyperextensions already seem to have fixed my chronic lower back pain!
Tomorrow I will hit workout B with everything I've got.

[tikfes]

Hi all, ive had been out of the gym for 5 months and decided to come back and start the routine again, however as i studied for long hours, and then went back to squat my muscles felt really tight however i stupidly increased the weight and from there i now have a lower back pinch very low on the left side,

now my physio tells me to replace the squat with the leg press, also stating to cut out the dead lift. Should i still stick to the routine but just replace the exercises like squat and deadlift??

[helhedded]

I don't run this program any more as I have stalled three times on my squat. 5x5 squats were starting to really tax my CNS and they were taking about 40 minutes. On top of ab work my sessions were lasting up to 2.5 hours which is some bull****. Sleep, diet and programming were all in check. I have switched to a custom 3x5 and wish I did this 4 months ago. One week in and I can already tell a difference in how my body feels in between sets and after a training session. I now use the Coach Rip warm-up reps (5,5,3,2,work) which is also working great with my custom program. I think the ICF program is great for anyone who can make it sustainable. Awesome for a newbie.

Final main lift numbers before switching to 3x5 (I train at a new home gym with a heavier bar from my first post in this thread. Those numbers were from a different gym where my squat was 280 but the plates weren't weighed... a few of them felt light, and the bar weighed 35lbs)

deadlift 356lbs
squat 277lbs
bench 157lbs
press 115lbs

Thanks a lot for reply.

I have another questions about ICF.I start this for over 1 week but my problem is that I can do only 3 or maybe 4 chin ups in first set , than it is getting harder to get 2-3 reps.So what should I do , I cant do 3x8 on chin ups now ? I have never do chin up before starting icf , so I just do it for 1 week.Should I replace it by another exercise or should I do 3xmax set chin ups + extra any exercise like biceps curl on workout A ?

Second question.I can't do dips a lot as well.I can do 'half dips' for 3x8 but can't do normal dips exercise more than 3 or 4 reps in one set.What should I do ? Or doing 5x5 till getting stronger makes sense for chinups and dips ?

You can grind out your chins to failure for each set if you want. As mentioned already by Turbs, assisted chins will work too. The fact that you can do more than one is better than not being able to do them at all. Make sure that they are the full ROM where you hang at the bottom. OR you can do straight bar curls or incline curls. Don't sacrifice form for weight. You will be cutting yourself short. For a long time I strictly did incline curls and focused on my rows. As soon as my row reached bodyweight I was able to knockout a set of 5 or more chins in the routine. Cold I bet I could knock out twice that or more.

On dips, the preferred option is the Close Grip Bench Press. I prefer the dumbell press as the close grip is uncomfortable for my shoulder at this time. The DBs also allow for a nice pec stretch at the bottom, something you can't get as much when working with the barbell.

Hi all, ive had been out of the gym for 5 months and decided to come back and start the routine again, however as i studied for long hours, and then went back to squat my muscles felt really tight however i stupidly increased the weight and from there i now have a lower back pinch very low on the left side,

now my physio tells me to replace the squat with the leg press, also stating to cut out the dead lift. Should i still stick to the routine but just replace the exercises like squat and deadlift??

I would just squat very light weights until my back healed. Squat an empty bar if you have too.

[BenD4Me]

Ill agree with helhedded, I dont think this program is sustainable past newb gains. I still have yet to see anyone stay with this program and hit 1.5x bw bench, 2x bw squat and 3x bw dead. I just dont think there is any way to progress that much with so much volume. I have been doing this for 18 weeks and I had to modify it around 12-14 weeks. I just couldnt handle the volume while trying to add 5lbs to everything, especially trying to add 5lbs to squat every workout. So I stopped squatting heavy(or at all) on deadlift days and dropped hyperextensions for the most part. Not squatting 3x a week hasnt seemed to have stopped my progression, as I was nowhere near able to add 15lbs a week.

[spicewood1990]

hey guys

Im about to hit 18 months on ICF no modifications.

I want to move away from strength to more hypertrophy based routine. Any recommended follow ons from the ICF to something less strength focused?

Cheers!

Lyle mcdonald upper lower

[HDiddy747]

Ill agree with helhedded, I dont think this program is sustainable past newb gains. I still have yet to see anyone stay with this program and hit 1.5x bw bench, 2x bw squat and 3x bw dead. I just dont think there is any way to progress that much with so much volume. I have been doing this for 18 weeks and I had to modify it around 12-14 weeks. I just couldnt handle the volume while trying to add 5lbs to everything, especially trying to add 5lbs to squat every workout. So I stopped squatting heavy(or at all) on deadlift days and dropped hyperextensions for the most part. Not squatting 3x a week hasnt seemed to have stopped my progression, as I was nowhere near able to add 15lbs a week.

I've been on the cutting version of ICF with steady gains up until my injury, in fact, I cut out quite a bit of the accessory work near the end because I knew it was affecting my main lifts.

I agree with you that the volume on the bulking one is way too high to sustain gains.

[RebornGC45]

Can I do latpull downs and barbell curls? Also can I add forearm movement because I don't have a lot of muscles in my forearms

[helhedded]

Can I do latpull downs and barbell curls? Also can I add forearm movement because I don't have a lot of muscles in my forearms

No, and a straight bar curl is a barbell curl. Your forearms get stimulated in every exercise. They get worked well in every exercise except the squat. Work the full 5x5 and they will grow.

[RebornGC45]

No, and a straight bar curl is a barbell curl. Your forearms get stimulated in every exercise. They get worked well in every exercise except the squat. Work the full 5x5 and they will grow.

im 189 lbs 20% bf...is a bulk good for me cuz i have no muscle at all in my 13 inc arm and 10in forearms (they look like sticks and i just feel bone..btw i have 6 in wrists)...if i cut ill be left with nothing so I'm confused

[helhedded]

im 189 lbs 20% bf...is a bulk good for me cuz i have no muscle at all in my 13 inc arm and 10in forearms (they look like sticks and i just feel bone..btw i have 6 in wrists)...if i cut ill be left with nothing so I'm confused

You need to enter your height in your profile or just post it here.

At 20% and being a beginner just perform the 5x5 bulking version of this program. Eat at maintenance calories. Watch your progress and you should lose fat and make muscle gains simultaneously. If your fat loss is not up to your liking, adjust caloric intake but not so much that it messes with recovery. Go until you can't go anymore. You might have to switch to the 3x5 if you cut hard. Post your progress and don't be afraid to ask questions.

[RebornGC45]

You need to enter your height in your profile or just post it here.

At 20% and being a beginner just perform the 5x5 bulking version of this program. Eat at maintenance calories. Watch your progress and you should lose fat and make muscle gains simultaneously. If your fat loss is not up to your liking, adjust caloric intake but not so much that it messes with recovery. Go until you can't go anymore. You might have to switch to the 3x5 if you cut hard. Post your progress and don't be afraid to ask questions.

I am 5'10. I used to be 260 lbs then I dropped to around 174 ish. Then due to school and a bunch of research work I got lazy and stopped working out for about 5 months. I'm here now at 189 and decided to go back since now free. Im not as fit as I used to be (keep in mind I only did cardio with no resistance so I have very little muscle mass my lbm is 151). I'm afraid that if I cut then i won't really have any muscle to cut since im skinny fat and majority of my fat is on love handles and belly. I finished my workout b of ice cream fitness

[helhedded]

I am 5'10. I used to be 260 lbs then I dropped to around 174 ish. Then due to school and a bunch of research work I got lazy and stopped working out for about 5 months. I'm here now at 189 and decided to go back since now free. Im not as fit as I used to be (keep in mind I only did cardio with no resistance so I have very little muscle mass my lbm is 151). I'm afraid that if I cut then i won't really have any muscle to cut since im skinny fat and majority of my fat is on love handles and belly. I finished my workout b of ice cream fitness

You will benefit from pushing through this 5x5 for as long as possible. Do low intensity cardio on your offdays. Fasted whenever possible. I also like to go for a short walk after my training sessions. Keep your protein high at 1gram per pound of body weight and you'll be fine.

[RebornGC45]

You will benefit from pushing through this 5x5 for as long as possible. Do low intensity cardio on your offdays. Fasted whenever possible. I also like to go for a short walk after my training sessions. Keep your protein high at 1gram per pound of body weight and you'll be fine.

Won't the cardio affect my muscle growth and recovery because I've heard that cardio can burn off your muscle. If I were to do low intensity cardio..what do you recommend I do also, should I just continue my bulk for now cuz I know a deficit will kill me if I do it 5x5

[helhedded]

Won't the cardio affect my muscle growth and recovery because I've heard that cardio can burn off your muscle. If I were to do low intensity cardio..what do you recommend I do also, should I just continue my bulk for now cuz I know a deficit will kill me if I do it 5x5

Walk at a steady pace. Get your heart rate up. The low intensity stuff won't cut into your gains. If anything it will make you healthier and boost your metabolism. Keep it to no more than an hour. 30 minutes is even better than nothing.

[RebornGC45]

Walk at a steady pace. Get your heart rate up. The low intensity stuff won't cut into your gains. If anything it will make you healthier and boost your metabolism. Keep it to no more than an hour. 30 minutes is even better than nothing.

Can I do some jogging or maybe some hit cuz I'm getting a Belly from the bulk or maybe I'm just bloated