Ice Cream Fitness: Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders: Part II

[mikeallen52]

Got a question.

When you say 5x5, does that mean the weight for these sets should be exactly the same. e.g. 150lbs bench for 5 reps, 5 sets?

Yup.

[MrSlippery]

Thanks for posting this again Mike, hopefully a mod will sticky for us.

Been running this program almost 5 months now, every lift I have set new PR's for. Just took a week off/deload/friggen busy working on a deck outside but will be back at it next Monday.

Happy lifting everyone!

[mikeallen52]

Thanks for posting this again Mike, hopefully a mod will sticky for us.

Been running this program almost 5 months now, every lift I have set new PR's for. Just took a week off/deload/friggen busy working on a deck outside but will be back at it next Monday.

Happy lifting everyone!

I have msg'd a mod and hopefully it will be stickied in the near future.

[Mdenatale]

Got a question.

When you say 5x5, does that mean the weight for these sets should be exactly the same. e.g. 150lbs bench for 5 reps, 5 sets?

Yes 5 sets across same weight, but keep in mind you will probably have some warm up sets prior to doing the 5x5 work sets. I personally do 2 warm up sets prior to the 5x5 for the first 3 exercises.

[Eclipse1997]

It must be exact? I just keep adding 10LB/set till I reach my max, wouldn't that work too?

Like my max is 80LB benchpress, I go 20-40-60-70-80, do I change this? And if yes, for all exercises too?

And other question, is there alternative for the Skull Crusher? I have un-balanced arms and my elbows always go on wrong form what matter I do, like they keep spreading...

Thanks for the thread.

[Mdenatale]

It must be exact? I just keep adding 10LB/set till I reach my max, wouldn't that work too?

Like my max is 80LB benchpress, I go 20-40-60-70-80, do I change this? And if yes, for all exercises too?

And other question, is there alternative for the Skull Crusher? I have un-balanced arms and my elbows always go on wrong form what matter I do, like they keep spreading...

Thanks for the thread.

The routine is 5x5 of the same weight for all work sets. If you can't get 5x5 with the same weight then you started too heavy.


Skull crusher is an accessory, so I don't see why you couldn't replace it with another triceps accessory. Maybe push downs, triceps extensions, something like that. That said it would be a good idea to work out your form issue. Go with a weight light enough to allow for perfect form then work up from there.

[Webtec]

Got a question.

When you say 5x5, does that mean the weight for these sets should be exactly the same. e.g. 150lbs bench for 5 reps, 5 sets?

Yes then next workout it would be 155 for 5 x 5

[Eclipse1997]

The routine is 5x5 of the same weight for all work sets. If you can't get 5x5 with the same weight then you started too heavy.


Skull crusher is an accessory, so I don't see why you couldn't replace it with another triceps accessory. Maybe push downs, triceps extensions, something like that. That said it would be a good idea to work out your form issue. Go with a weight light enough to allow for perfect form then work up from there.

So only 5x5, the 3x8 is increasing weight ..etc? K cool !


What's a good weight for hyperextentions tho?

And does Hack Squat works as the normal Squat? if I replaced it with the Squat in the workout?

And last thing please, what does "Barbell Row 5x5 -10%" means?

Sorry for lot of questions, started working out on this after leaving the "isolation" program the trainer gave me even though it was my first time in gym (15 days on old workout.. )

Thanks.

[mikeallen52]

So only 5x5, the 3x8 is increasing weight ..etc? K cool !
All exercises are weight across all sets. If you're doing 50lbs for curls, do it for all sets. If you complete all reps with good form, then you bump the weight up next time. Make sense?

What's a good weight for hyperextentions tho?
However much is good for YOU. Compare yourself to yourself. Everyday become a stronger version of yourself. With that said, always start light. The weight will add up.

And does Hack Squat works as the normal Squat? if I replaced it with the Squat in the workout?
No, if you change it then YNDTP (You're Not Doing The Program).

And last thing please, what does "Barbell Row 5x5 -10%" means?
Use 10% less weight than you did on Workout A. Your back is worked pretty hard on Workout B. For example, if you did 100lbs on A, do 90lbs on B.

Sorry for lot of questions, started working out on this after leaving the "isolation" program the trainer gave me even though it was my first time in gym (15 days on old workout.. )
No problem, it's what we are here for.

Thanks.

See bold.

[oz40]

What is a good video on YT detailing how to do a proper barbell row?

By the way, I have made a spreadsheet so it's easy to track progress. Granted it's not a perfect spreadsheet but I find it an easy way to keep track of my progress.

[misterspock]

It must be exact? I just keep adding 10LB/set till I reach my max, wouldn't that work too?

Like my max is 80LB benchpress, I go 20-40-60-70-80, do I change this? And if yes, for all exercises too?

And other question, is there alternative for the Skull Crusher? I have un-balanced arms and my elbows always go on wrong form what matter I do, like they keep spreading...

Thanks for the thread.

The routine is 5x5 of the same weight for all work sets. If you can't get 5x5 with the same weight then you started too heavy.


Skull crusher is an accessory, so I don't see why you couldn't replace it with another triceps accessory. Maybe push downs, triceps extensions, something like that. That said it would be a good idea to work out your form issue. Go with a weight light enough to allow for perfect form then work up from there.

Skullcrushers are selected specifically because they place a greater emphasis on the longer head of the triceps than the other exercises you listed. The long head of the triceps can be a common lagging part for those who build their triceps solely from pressing movements and triceps accessories performed through a limited range of motion.

Jason Blaha specifically on this matter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QUzxllAB7c
Mark Rippetoe on training the triceps: http://www.vimeo.com/25983467

[CasellaFitness]

For workout B, can I replace BB rows with DB rows? I like DB better and don't see why I should do BB every workout.

[foaj]

What is a good video on YT detailing how to do a proper barbell row?

By the way, I have made a spreadsheet so it's easy to track progress. Granted it's not a perfect spreadsheet but I find it an easy way to keep track of my progress.

IIRC the recommendation for this workout is Pendlay rows:

youtube /watch?v=ZlRrIsoDpKg

**** I can't post links, but that one above

[foaj]

What's a good weight for hyperextentions tho?

I think hypers are pretty low... I'm doing 40lbs x10 with dumbbells on my chest for those right now and doing 305lbs x5 for deadlifts... and the 40lbs are pretty challenging.

[PaulRivers]

Fyi, this thread (!@#@! as it's locked) has a more complete breakdown of the program, videos, etc -
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=154855443

[xxdieharderxx]

I started this program too
Keep an eye out Ill be posting my progress stats and pics soon !

[misterspock]

For workout B, can I replace BB rows with DB rows? I like DB better and don't see why I should do BB every workout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZq7TYW9J04

"For general hypertrophy, barbell rowing is superior to dumbbell rowing."

The weight for barbell rows is calculated from your previous workout anyway, and it's not as simple as halving the weight to find your dumbbell weight. Just stick with the routine as written.

IIRC the recommendation for this workout is Pendlay rows:

youtube /watch?v=ZlRrIsoDpKg

**** I can't post links, but that one above

Not that it makes a massive difference, but the recommended form is a bent over row with the weight starting in a hanging position and pulled in a straight vertical line towards the lower chest/upper abs. Controlling the negative and using the weight to stretch down at the bottom of the movement, according to Jason in several videos on his channel, will stimulate greater lat development.

[Nosepull]

I feel like my biceps are lagging strength-wise - chins and curls are two of my worst lifts, and have been extremely slow to progress. My triceps are going great and I'm a bit worried about developing an imbalance and elbow issues.

Would it be a good idea to throw in additional bicep work, either on off-days or at the end of the program? I'm already doing facepulls at the end of Workout B, which activate the biceps. This isn't a matter of "OH I WANT THEM PYTHONS" - I'm more concerned by how they seem to be lagging in strength.

Or should I just stick it out through a few months of bulking and see if it improves on its own?

[misterspock]

I feel like my biceps are lagging strength-wise - chins and curls are two of my worst lifts, and have been extremely slow to progress. My triceps are going great and I'm a bit worried about developing an imbalance and elbow issues.

Would it be a good idea to throw in additional bicep work, either on off-days or at the end of the program? I'm already doing facepulls at the end of Workout B, which activate the biceps. This isn't a matter of "OH I WANT THEM PYTHONS" - I'm more concerned by how they seem to be lagging in strength.

Or should I just stick it out through a few months of bulking and see if it improves on its own?

How are your rows doing?

[foaj]

One thing jason mentioned in a video is that most people curl too high, like trying to get the weight all the way to the chest, whereas the bicep curl is supposed to stop once the bicep is fully contracted... i had to fix that. I think my curls have gone better since doing that... also I've been tightening up my glutes and abs during the curl which for some reason makes me perform better.

Those two things have definitely helped me a bit but I'd appreciate any other tips, as I also feel like those lifts are lagging the most for me too.

I feel like my biceps are lagging strength-wise - chins and curls are two of my worst lifts, and have been extremely slow to progress. My triceps are going great and I'm a bit worried about developing an imbalance and elbow issues.

Would it be a good idea to throw in additional bicep work, either on off-days or at the end of the program? I'm already doing facepulls at the end of Workout B, which activate the biceps. This isn't a matter of "OH I WANT THEM PYTHONS" - I'm more concerned by how they seem to be lagging in strength.

Or should I just stick it out through a few months of bulking and see if it improves on its own?

[Nosepull]

foaj: I have been doing the reduced height, less because of strength and more because of wrist issues.

misterspock: rows are doing well. I've wondered previously if heavy rows were impacting my chins later in the workout.

[Spharai]

Does anyone have some before and after photos of running this program? I know I should compare myself to only myself but before and afters help me with motivation. Thanks.

[Stephen109]

This needs to be stickied.

[MarthaStewart]

I'll be doing this on a cut until I get rid of all excess fat, then continue on a bulk!

Thank God there's a cutting version of this, the program I was offered is kind of ridiculous for someone on a cut.

[mikeallen52]

.. I've wondered previously if heavy rows were impacting my chins later in the workout.

This could very well be the case.

In my case, when I did rows, I could only manage like a set of 7,6 with an extra 10lbs. I took out rows for power cleans, because I'm going for more overall strength, and I just completed 2 sets of 8 chins with an extra 35lbs... so take from it what you will.

This needs to be stickied.

It's being worked on.

[bravo96]

Skullcrushers are selected specifically because they place a greater emphasis on the longer head of the triceps than the other exercises you listed. The long head of the triceps can be a common lagging part for those who build their triceps solely from pressing movements and triceps accessories performed through a limited range of motion.

Jason Blaha specifically on this matter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QUzxllAB7c
Mark Rippetoe on training the triceps: http://www.vimeo.com/25983467

what jason and rip do isnt skullcrushers, more of a pull over extension. almost everyone else performs skullcrushers by bringing the bar down to their forehead.

[makeitright]

I swear, bench press is going to be the death of me. About two or three weeks ago I reset and built back up, then completed the weight I had previously failed at last week. All's good there. So these past two weeks I attempt the increased weight of 5 lbs, then fail twice in a row at my new weight. Bah!

I'm continually hitting PR's on all my other lifts, with few resets, and am going on my 8th week of the routine. Anyone else have issues with their bench progressing slower than most other lifts? Not really sure what's going on there. It's more mentally frustrating than anything. My rows have even begun to surpass my BP weight, hah.

[sanooke]

Has anybody had better physical gains from ICF over Starting Strength? It is a very similar program since I have replaced power cleans with barbell rows and added dips and pull-ups. I am enjoying my routine but getting a little discouraged by minimal changes in my appearance after three months. I have mostly powerlifting and strength goals but of course want to look better. The higher volume may be better for me since I usually feel my workout is too short. It looks like I'd basically be doing the same routine if I switched to ICF, I'd just be adding some accessory.

Also this routine is clearly bodybuilding based, but are any of these accessory exercises great for improving the main lifts?

I'm planning on doing a basic compound 5x5/3x5 routine for at least a year or until it doesn't work for me anymore to get my primary lifts up, then maybe Wendler or a more PL focused routine. But for now, I want strength AND to improve my appearance. Shortterm goals are to get a 4-plate deadlift, 3-plate squat, 2-plate bench.

[Nosepull]

I swear, bench press is going to be the death of me. About two or three weeks ago I reset and built back up, then completed the weight I had previously failed at last week. All's good there. So these past two weeks I attempt the increased weight of 5 lbs, then fail twice in a row at my new weight. Bah!

I'm continually hitting PR's on all my other lifts, with few resets, and am going on my 8th week of the routine. Anyone else have issues with their bench progressing slower than most other lifts? Not really sure what's going on there. It's more mentally frustrating than anything. My rows have even begun to surpass my BP weight, hah.

My BP is slow - I have to fight for every increase. If it helps, my row has been ahead of my BP for a while now.

[makeitright]

My BP is slow - I have to fight for every increase. If it helps, my row has been ahead of my BP for a while now.

Do you typically find yourself having to reset again after each increase? Seems like I'm able to make progression for at least a couple sessions when I increase on the other compounds before having to reset again.