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  1. #1
    Registered User mattvdh's Avatar
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    Why do you need carbs?

    How come you see one side of diet plans suggesting macro-moderation or some sort of balanced ratio with carbs typically being the highest, but then when you see what the pro bodybuilders are eating like coleman, cutler, heath, arnold etc it's like 85-90% protein and a bit of brown rice or potatoes. So if these guys are monsters and have insane bodies, why should we listen to anybody else's advice? Do you actually need carbs, and fat for the matter for building serious muscle and getting/keeping lean, or is it purely for energy?
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  2. #2
    Registered User GermanBarbarian's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mattvdh View Post
    How come you see one side of diet plans suggesting macro-moderation or some sort of balanced ratio with carbs typically being the highest, but then when you see what the pro bodybuilders are eating like coleman, cutler, heath, arnold etc it's like 85-90% protein and a bit of brown rice or potatoes. So if these guys are monsters and have insane bodies, why should we listen to anybody else's advice? Do you actually need carbs, and fat for the matter for building serious muscle and getting/keeping lean, or is it purely for energy?
    Some of the byproducts in the metabolic pathway with regards to carbohydrates and fats are useful for regulating other pathways (for example hormonal and anabolic pathways). If you are on steroids and are lifting like they are then yes that amount of protein would greatly benefit you. It is all about striking a balance and you would be better off eating a balanced diet.
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  3. #3
    Registered User mattvdh's Avatar
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    I hear what you're saying, but at the same time if what you're saying is accurate then that logic would apply to anyone, regardless of roid/synthol use, right? building muscle is building muscle... Anyway, those guys I mentioned do consume carbs, but their ratio is heavily protein centric. Here's an example of Cutlers diet plan. It's not exactly like this, but slight variations of it.

    Jay Cutler Breakfast and Lunch Routine
    Meal 1: 15 g whites, 3 whole eggs, 1 cup oatmeal, 1 bagel, 1 glass orange juice, water and multivitamin
    Meal 2: 8 oz. steak and 1.5 cups white rice
    Meal 3: 8 oz. chicken and 1 cup brown rice
    Post-Workout Meal
    Jay Cutler Dinner
    1 serving Glutamine and 1 serving of Vitamin B
    Meal 4: 10 oz. chicken and 3 cups white rice with onions and garlic
    Meal 5: 8 oz. chicken and 1 cup brown rice
    Meal 6: Protein Shake
    Meal 7: 14 egg whites and 1 cup oatmeal
    Before Bed
    Jay Cutler Supplements
    1 serving of each of the following: Glutamine, Zinc, Calcium, Magnesium, Vitamin B Complex and Vitamin C

    If you watch Colemans videos he eats like 12 egg whites for breakfast, then a protein shake, then some chicken/rice, then some hamburgers/rice, and chicken/rice again at TGI's. with maybe a protein shake in between some of those meals. And a ton of vitamins and supplements.

    I think a moderate diet is for regular people who aren't trying to gain muscle. Simple carbs burn off fast--excess fat and protein would turn to fat if you don't work out and lift weights.
    Last edited by mattvdh; 06-12-2013 at 11:52 PM.
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  4. #4
    Registered User lalaumj's Avatar
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    Protein is the building blocks for building muscle. Carbs give your body the energy to maintain homeostasis and build muscle. Fats are your body's preferred source of energy and facilitate the digestion of vitamins.

    Bodybuilders are on so many steroids that they need the protein because their bodies use all of it up. If we were to take as much protein as they, half of it would go to waste because our bodies can't process that much protein at once.

    A clean weightlifter would benefit from a 40-40-20 Carbrotein:fat ratio. Everyone has different ideas as to what the ratio should be but thats my idea.
    Eat clean. Lift dirty.

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    Longterm:
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    Weight: 160 @ ~7% BF
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  5. #5
    Registered User GermanBarbarian's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mattvdh View Post
    I hear what you're saying, but at the same time if what you're saying is accurate then that logic would apply to anyone, regardless of roid/synthol use, right? building muscle is building muscle... Anyway, those guys I mentioned do consume carbs, but their ratio is heavily protein centric. Here's an example of Cutlers diet plan. It's not exactly like this, but slight variations of it.

    Jay Cutler Breakfast and Lunch Routine
    Meal 1: 15 g whites, 3 whole eggs, 1 cup oatmeal, 1 bagel, 1 glass orange juice, water and multivitamin
    Meal 2: 8 oz. steak and 1.5 cups white rice
    Meal 3: 8 oz. chicken and 1 cup brown rice
    Post-Workout Meal
    Jay Cutler Dinner
    1 serving Glutamine and 1 serving of Vitamin B
    Meal 4: 10 oz. chicken and 3 cups white rice with onions and garlic
    Meal 5: 8 oz. chicken and 1 cup brown rice
    Meal 6: Protein Shake
    Meal 7: 14 egg whites and 1 cup oatmeal
    Before Bed
    Jay Cutler Supplements
    1 serving of each of the following: Glutamine, Zinc, Calcium, Magnesium, Vitamin B Complex and Vitamin C

    If you watch Colemans videos he eats like 12 egg whites for breakfast, then a protein shake, then some chicken/rice, then some hamburgers/rice, and chicken/rice again at TGI's. with maybe a protein shake in between some of those meals. And a ton of vitamins and supplements.

    I think a moderate diet is for regular people who aren't trying to gain muscle. Simple carbs burn off fast--excess fat and protein would turn to fat if you don't work out and lift weights.
    If you are lifting 4-5 hours a day, on "supplements", prepping for a contest, and are 280+ pounds at 5'10", then I would say yes. Three things are: you don't need to consume 100% of your fats everyday, post one of his cheat meals in which he downs a ton of fat, they go on specific diets at different stages in between and during competitions... once the competition is over they pig out biggggg time.

    You are viewing things too black and white. Just because they gain a lot of muscle doesn't mean that is "the diet" if you want to gain muscle.
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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by mattvdh View Post
    How come you see one side of diet plans suggesting macro-moderation or some sort of balanced ratio with carbs typically being the highest, but then when you see what the pro bodybuilders are eating like coleman, cutler, heath, arnold etc it's like 85-90% protein and a bit of brown rice or potatoes. So if these guys are monsters and have insane bodies, why should we listen to anybody else's advice? Do you actually need carbs, and fat for the matter for building serious muscle and getting/keeping lean, or is it purely for energy?
    You only need protein and fat to build muscle as they have hormonal responses within the body.
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  7. #7
    Registered User invain's Avatar
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    Technically carbohydrates are the only non-essential macro-nutrient. So in essence, you don't "need" them. They do have their place however. Have fun performing a heavy weight training session with depleted glycogen stores.
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  8. #8
    sadly, life is a marathon shesprints's Avatar
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    I really like what Nate Miyaki says about carbs. Here's one interview, but you can google more videos and such.

    http://jasonferruggia.com/nutritiona...h-nate-miyaki/
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  9. #9
    Registered User VixTrader's Avatar
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    Unless you're 250+ pounds, weightlift 3 hours a day, take truck loads of supplements, and have a totally clean and regimented diet, I'd suggest you don't follow in the footsteps of professional body builders. It is a completely unrealistic way of life for the vast majority of people.

    Why do we need carbs? Energy. Try running 10 miles on a low carb diet. After that experience I guarantee you'll gain an appreciation for why carbs make workouts so much more comfortable.

    Athletes need carbs to perform. If you're not an athlete or don't do any cardio, then by all means adopt a low carb diet for weight loss...
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by VixTrader View Post
    Unless you're 250+ pounds, weightlift 3 hours a day, take truck loads of supplements, and have a totally clean and regimented diet, I'd suggest you don't follow in the footsteps of professional body builders. It is a completely unrealistic way of life for the vast majority of people.

    Why do we need carbs? Energy. Try running 10 miles on a low carb diet. After that experience I guarantee you'll gain an appreciation for why carbs make workouts so much more comfortable.

    Athletes need carbs to perform. If you're not an athlete or don't do any cardio, then by all means adopt a low carb diet for weight loss...
    Well said. Carbs are the primary source of energy for your body. To say that you don't need them is flat ridiculous in my opinion. They are what will actually allow you to lift and go for hours. There is a limit as to how many one should have based on their workout regiment and frequency, but you NEED to take them in. Your body can substitute carbs for other nutrients in order to create ATP in your body, but it's less effective or at least less efficient. Carbohydrates are the best source of energy for your as they are the most readily used nutrient to produce ATP. As I find myself saying often, figure out your macronutrients to see how many carbs you should take in each day. There are a variety of ratios that people suggest, but everyone's different so I don't want to tell you a ratio that may be unrealistic for your activity level.

    But like everyone else is saying, you can't follow the routines of these bodybuilders. They are genetic freaks, as well as on steroids and who knows what else. Don't try and compare yourselves to them. In weight training and dieting it's not about trying to look like this or that guy, it's all about being the best YOU that you can be.
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  11. #11
    Registered User mattvdh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by invain View Post
    Technically carbohydrates are the only non-essential macro-nutrient. So in essence, you don't "need" them. They do have their place however. Have fun performing a heavy weight training session with depleted glycogen stores.
    That makes sense. thanks man
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  12. #12
    Registered User mattvdh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VixTrader View Post
    Unless you're 250+ pounds, weightlift 3 hours a day, take truck loads of supplements, and have a totally clean and regimented diet, I'd suggest you don't follow in the footsteps of professional body builders. It is a completely unrealistic way of life for the vast majority of people.

    Why do we need carbs? Energy. Try running 10 miles on a low carb diet. After that experience I guarantee you'll gain an appreciation for why carbs make workouts so much more comfortable.

    Athletes need carbs to perform. If you're not an athlete or don't do any cardio, then by all means adopt a low carb diet for weight loss...
    good stuff. Yeah I think bodybuilders can do a lot of damage to the general population in terms of information. They are exceptions in many ways. I've stopped watching bodybuilding videos for that reason, it's pretty impressive to see how disciplined and strong these guys are, I respect that, but guys like myself who work a full time job and other hobbies it's not very practical or realistic. I'm going to start browsing around for more naturals or average lifters who don't use the gear or were blessed with hulk like genetics. Any recommendations?
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  13. #13
    Registered User mattvdh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shesprints View Post
    I really like what Nate Miyaki says about carbs. Here's one interview, but you can google more videos and such.

    http://jasonferruggia.com/nutritiona...h-nate-miyaki/
    good article! I especially agree with the section on carbs being eaten at night. For some reason I tend to enjoy eating mostly at night and when I tried depriving myself of eating after a certain hour at night (you know the old 'stop eating at a certain time because when you sleep you are storing calories, not burning them') I feel like something is missing. And whenever I hate going to sleep on an empty stomach, you wake up feeling all groggy and tired. I sleep so much better going to be with some food in the stomach.
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  14. #14
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    If you plan on hitting the weights with any sort of intensity, good luck doing so without carbs in the tank. There are other pathways in which the body can generate ATP, but they're inefficient compared to fueling the body with carbohydrate. Lack of glycogen leads to lack of energy (poor performance), fatigue, and worst of all -- injury. Cliffs, if you want to perform well in the gym, life, etc. eat carbs. )
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    Originally Posted by ELLSKIES View Post
    If you plan on hitting the weights with any sort of intensity, good luck doing so without carbs in the tank. There are other pathways in which the body can generate ATP, but they're inefficient compared to fueling the body with carbohydrate. Lack of glycogen leads to lack of energy (poor performance), fatigue, and worst of all -- injury. Cliffs, if you want to perform well in the gym, life, etc. eat carbs. )
    Actually works for me. I might be a little bit slower when it comes to fast twitch stuff in my personal experience but I fatigue less easily and its a much smoother energy that doesn't have peaks and valleys. And then I carb up and get the fast twitch stuff back.
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    Originally Posted by mattvdh View Post
    I hear what you're saying, but at the same time if what you're saying is accurate then that logic would apply to anyone, regardless of roid/synthol use, right?

    Not at all actually.
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