Is it possible to gain muscle while cutting fat?

[JayBuilderman]

I read the interesting article on acaloriecounter.com/building-muscle.php
It stated on The Ultimate Guide To Building Muscle - FAQ that "since you are a beginner, you have the magical ability to both lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.(Take sightly more calorie then the maintain calorie)"
Is it possible? What is the mechanism behind this? I've read many threads here and I got the idea that if I take more calorie than maintain calorie it will turn into muscle or fat.

[Serpentarius]

Its such a small amount that its not really worth noting, if you begin to lift from a sedentary state, the muscle is more or less just coming back from atrophy. You wont be able to see the difference, but bulking and cutting is where its at, and should be done once noob gains run out.

[JayBuilderman]

Its such a small amount that its not really worth noting, if you begin to lift from a sedentary state, the muscle is more or less just coming back from atrophy. You wont be able to see the difference, but bulking and cutting is where its at, and should be done once noob gains run out.

How long does it take to run out noob gains?

[Serpentarius]

How long does it take to run out noob gains?

depends on the individual, mine was about 2 months but i trained hard.

[Khabaal]

Honestly, more important to build strength while losing fat if you're a beginner. Building the mind-muscle connection and whatnot. As said, the amount of muscle you can gain while losing weight as a beginner isn't really significant enough to mention. I like to think of it as the muscle I should've already had anyway starting from 0.

[Currensy420]

No it's almost unrealistic. Unless you are a complete newbie to lifting, there is no way you can do both, sadly.

[JayBuilderman]

Then what result I could expect giving that I uptake 2300 calorie while my maintain calorie is 2000 calorie? Gaining muscle? Losing Fat? Both?

[Khabaal]

Then what result I could expect giving that I uptake 2300 calorie while my maintain calorie is 2000 calorie? Gaining muscle? Losing Fat? Both?

Wut?

So you know that A. surplus in calories is required to gain muscle and B. deficit in calories is required for fat loss, and you're asking what's going to happen if you consume 300 calories more than what you need to maintain your weight?

Eat in a surplus and you'll gain weight. Whether the majority is fat or muscle is up to you though.

[JayBuilderman]

Wut?

So you know that A. surplus in calories is required to gain muscle and B. deficit in calories is required for fat loss, and you're asking what's going to happen if you consume 300 calories more than what you need to maintain your weight?

Eat in a surplus and you'll gain weight. Whether the majority is fat or muscle is up to you though.

As far as I know it's depends mainly on how I train. If my body needs muscle to build, the calorie surplus goes to be used in muscle gaining, right?

[Khabaal]

As far as I know it's depends mainly on how I train. If my body needs muscle to build, the calorie surplus goes to be used in muscle gaining, right?

Mainly, yes. A bit of fat is inevitable, but if the surplus isn't significant (more than 500kcal over your TDEE) and you're lifting heavy, it's what is referred to as a clean bulk; which is just the term used to describe an optimal program where you minimize the fat gained while increasing muscle mass. You may need to recalculate you maintenance as activity level is a factor.

[JayBuilderman]

I read the article: bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html
It states that it is possible to gaining muscle while losing fat. It only happen under the two circumstances: 1. You are fat. 2. You are a beginner.
Because you are fat, so the fat cell tends to reject the calorie(insulin resistant) so that you won't be too fat; plus, the training tends more effective for you.
Sound reasonable, amirite?

[Serpentarius]

I read the article: bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html
It states that it is possible to gaining muscle while losing fat. It only happen under the two circumstances: 1. You are fat. 2. You are a beginner.
Because you are fat, so the fat cell tends to reject the calorie(insulin resistant) so that you won't be too fat; plus, the training tends more effective for you.
Sound reasonable, amirite?

you arent fat

[JayBuilderman]

you arent fat

How fat is fat? I think my bf is about 20%, which may be a bit high for 5'9" 145lbs body.

[lucksterx]

How fat is fat? I think my bf is about 20%, which may be a bit high for 5'9" 145lbs body.[/size]

I think my bf is about 20%, which may be a bit high for 5'9" 145lbs body.

a bit high for 5'9" 145lbs body.

5'9" 145lbs

Wait, what? How old are you?

[JayBuilderman]

Wait, what? How old are you?

26.

[Khabaal]

So you weigh 60lbs less than me and you think you're fat. Regardless, what's going to change in what you actually do if you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? You're trying to lose fat and you need to lift and consume adequate protein to retain muscle in any case, what you do won't change. Just do it and see what happens.

[lucksterx]

26.

Oh, alright. I understand this might not answer your question, just wanted to say: if the photo of you in your bodyspace is current, I wouldn't (personally) recommend further cutting. I've got 20lbs on you and I'm starting to look like a twig.

[JayBuilderman]

So you weigh 60lbs less than me and you think you're fat. Regardless, what's going to change in what you actually do if you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? You're trying to lose fat and you need to lift and consume adequate protein to retain muscle in any case, what you do won't change. Just do it and see what happens.

I know lifting and training is what I have to do for sure. What confusing me is the calorie intake. Giving that my maintenance calorie is 2000, I don't know how much calorie I should take. I have experienced a little calorie deficit like 1700 kcal with weight training, and it resulted in some weight and fat loss (1~2 lbs a week). But muscle didn't gain. So I think 2 got 2 ways to try. Stay trained with 2000 kcal a day (maintenance) or 2200(a bit surplus). My goal is ( nerdfitness.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/menbodyfat2.jpg ) (14~15% one) . My current state is just like my avatar picture.

[Khabaal]

I know lifting and training is what I have to do for sure. What confusing me is the calorie intake. Giving that my maintenance calorie is 2000, I don't know how much calorie I should take. I have experienced a little calorie deficit like 1700 kcal with weight training, and it resulted in some weight and fat loss (1~2 lbs a week). But muscle didn't gain. So I think 2 got 2 ways to try. Stay trained with 2000 kcal a day (maintenance) or 2200(a bit surplus). My goal is nerdfitness.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/menbodyfat2.jpg (14~15% one) . My current state is just like my avatar picture.

You have to play with it, tailor your diet to your personal needs. Try 2200. Just remember that it takes a lot of time and commitment to put on muscle. It's a slow journey.

[ivxenz]

what if someone was keeping about 100-200 calories above maintenance, working hard in the gym and doing cardio. The 100-200 calories surplus is after taking cardio calorie burnage into account. Wouldn't they keep fat gain to minimum while building muscle? Or would this just be what is called recomposition?

[p0werlifter]

OP I wouldn't listen to the people commenting in the thread. They think that muscles take enormous amounts of calories to build but in reality your muscles only uses 5% of your calories for muscle building. Studies have shown that if you keep your diet at 90% TDEE and no lower and not much higher(or you won't lose much) you will lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Obviously your gains won't be as great but it's possible. I personally got bigger as I cut and there have been many others who have experienced this. It might also mainly depend on your body type but I wouldn't take the other posters seriously since it's clear that they don't know what they're talking about.

[SleeperService]

Short answer: No.
Long answer: Sometimes, but only for a little while and only under particular circumstances, usually for fat beginners. But generally no.

[Waldo56]

I know lifting and training is what I have to do for sure. What confusing me is the calorie intake. Giving that my maintenance calorie is 2000, I don't know how much calorie I should take. I have experienced a little calorie deficit like 1700 kcal with weight training, and it resulted in some weight and fat loss (1~2 lbs a week). But muscle didn't gain. So I think 2 got 2 ways to try. Stay trained with 2000 kcal a day (maintenance) or 2200(a bit surplus). My goal is nerdfitness.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/menbodyfat2.jpg (14~15% one) . My current state is just like my avatar picture.

If you lost 1-2 lbs a week @ 1700 cal intake, 2000 cal is not your maintence. Somewhere between 2200-2700 is.

1 lb loss = 500 cal deficit, 2 lb loss = 1000 cal deficit.

To actually gain many will also have to overcome the increased TEF (thermic effect of food, calorie cost of digesting it), and increase of NEAT (unconcious calorie burn like fidgeting and in general having lots of energy). How much this is varies from person to person, but it can be quite a large difference.

I doubt you will gain eating less than 3K cal/day.

[macsm01]

You are looking at 25%, maybe 50% maximum of what you'd gain on a surplus. Considering height and weight only, you could probably gain a max of 5 to 9 lbs in a year cutting a bit less then 1lb / week, where as if you bulked with a respectable surplus you'd gain a max 15-18. As long as you aren't deficient in protein, fats, carbs or vitamins / minerals.

Here is a link showing McDonald's and Argon's calculations on muscle gain:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...potential.html

[JayBuilderman]

If you lost 1-2 lbs a week @ 1700 cal intake, 2000 cal is not your maintence. Somewhere between 2200-2700 is.

1 lb loss = 500 cal deficit, 2 lb loss = 1000 cal deficit.

To actually gain many will also have to overcome the increased TEF (thermic effect of food, calorie cost of digesting it), and increase of NEAT (unconcious calorie burn like fidgeting and in general having lots of energy). How much this is varies from person to person, but it can be quite a large difference.

I doubt you will gain eating less than 3K cal/day.

I reviewed the log and it shows I lost about 1 lbs a week at 1700 kcal intake. So according to this fact my maintenance calorie will be close to 2200 kcal.
I don't know how much calorie intake is better for me for archive my goal: ( nerdfitness.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/menbodyfat2.jpg )(14~15% one). So my plan could to try 2200 kcal for 2~3 weeks to see the result, and adjust the value based on what I got. If I got fat, get the calorie down to 2000kcal. If no change happens, up to 2400 kcal or so.