A Work In Progress

[schnauzers]

I've been lurking and posting for a while now so figured it was time to finally start a log. New program, new log

Briefly, I started weight training in late 2010. Before that I was an average gym rat who just did random **** all the time. In 2010 I got smarter and decided to follow a program by someone in the know. I started with NROL4W, then did NROL4A, then parts of NROL (the original). I then did two rounds of Power Training which I loved and got some great strength gains with. Then I ran Starting Strength for a few months before decided I'd try hiring a trainer to make me programs and give diet advice with my goal being hypertrophy and overall mass gain. Around the time I hired the trainer (Jan 2013) I started doing more reading here and realized that what I needed to do was 'bulk'. The diet advice the trainer gave me wasn't all that great but I liked his programming so I stuck with him for three months. Made some great strength gains and although that wasn't my goal at the time I guess I'm happy for that. After learning about what it takes to bulk, I attempted to do that. I only put on about 6 lbs in three-ish months and that taught me that I still wasn't eating enough, despite tracking everything. I recently went on vacation for 4 weeks and took a week to gather my thoughts after I returned from vacation. So I was out of the gym for 5 weeks (eeeek!!!).

Although summer is here (kinda, it's like 10C today!) and it'd be nice to stay lean for the summer, what I really need to do is bulk. I'd rather not wait until after the summer because I realize I should have been bulking years ago. So my current goal is to continue bulking. I'm still not sure if I'm going to track everything I eat. It was getting a bit annoying. I think I *might* just use the scale as a guide. If I'm gaining 0.5-1lb/week, then I'm in a proper surplus. If I'm not gaining, then I'll eat more. I"ll still go through the motions of re-doing the nutrition cals and verify protein/fat needs and might even track for a few weeks to make sure I'm getting into the swing of things properly. Program wise, I chose to follow PHAT as I've read some great things about the program on this forum. I completed my first workout today and will log that below. I hope to take photos and measurements tomorrow morning (ran out of time this morning) to keep track of progress. Not sure if I'll have the courage to post photos here but I'll keep them handy just in case

And now for today's workout....


PHAT-Week 1
Upper Power Power Day

Pendlay rows: 95lbs: 3x5
Pull ups: supposed to be weighted 2x 6-10...but I could only manage 6bw (o/hand grip), 2bw (o/hand), 3bw (parallel), 3bw (parallel)
Rack chins: supposed to be 2x 6-10...I did 10, 8 with feet on the floor
Flat DB press: 30lbsx5, 35lbsx5, 40lbsx5, 40lbsx5 (I put an extra set in as I realized that starting with the 30lbers was too light)
Dips: 8, 8 (w/40lb assistance)
Seated DB shoulder press: 20lb 3x8
Cambered bar curls: 45lbsx10, 50lbsx10 x2
Skull crushers: 37.5lbs x8,8 47.5lb x 7

A lot of what I've read about PHAT says not to work until failure the first few weeks so that's why the reps are a bit shy of the upper end of the suggested rep ranges in some cases.

Re: pull ups...they are supposed to be weighted. However I can't do weighted pull ups yet (using over hand grip). I am used to doing weighted chin ups (under hand or parallel grip). Should I stick to using the overhand grip and just use the weight assist pullup machine/bands until I can do more? OR should I stick to supinated/parallel grip chins and use the weight belt to add weight?

Re: rack chins....Is it okay to just keep my feet on the floor for now and work on bringing my chest right up to the bar for all reps before elevating my feet?

Re: dips....I've never done dips before because they've bugged my shoulders. I had to use the weight assisted dip machine. Okay to start there and build up strength? The dips are supposed to be weighted eventually.

All in all in was an okay workout but maaaaaannnn did I ever feel SO weak. Is that normal for not having trained for 5 weeks? I feel like I had to pussy out on some of the weights used because my muscles felt sleepy.

I guess I'll leave it at that for now. Comments, questions, suggestions....please share 'em if you've got 'em!

[rachelily]

Don't worry your strength will come back REAL quick And definitely okay to start with assisted chins/dips and work your way up.

I'm thinking about starting PHAT once my comp is over to help me bulk up to figure so I'm def subbed in on your journal! Can't wait to see your progress!

[Miranda]

in . . .

re doing specifically designer exercises: there's never a NEED to do something if it doesn't agree with you. there is no exercise you can't sub with something else if need be.

which is separate from changing programming etc so much that the end result does not even remotely resemble the original idea.

[gobbles23]

Oh cool In!!!

[schnauzers]

Don't worry your strength will come back REAL quick And definitely okay to start with assisted chins/dips and work your way up.

I'm thinking about starting PHAT once my comp is over to help me bulk up to figure so I'm def subbed in on your journal! Can't wait to see your progress!

I hope you're right! Today went even worse on the strength front...see below. Can't wait to get my groove back!

in . . .

re doing specifically designer exercises: there's never a NEED to do something if it doesn't agree with you. there is no exercise you can't sub with something else if need be.

which is separate from changing programming etc so much that the end result does not even remotely resemble the original idea.

Thanks for being here, I love all the advice you give. Yeah I want to just modify enough to suit my gym equipment/any pain issues without making it a totally different program.

Oh cool In!!!

Woot!


Completed the second workout today. This workout also made me feel like such a sissy. Gah, can't wait to get my *real* strength back.

PHAT-Week 1
Lower Power Power Day

Squat: 115lbs 3x3
V-squat (subbed for hack squat): 180x10, 230lbsx10
leg extension: 110lbs: 8,8
SLDL: 95lbs: 8,8,8
seated leg curl (subbed for GHR/lying leg curl): 90lbs: 10,10
standing leg raise (@ Smith machine): 90lbsx10, 110lbx10, 10
seated calf raise: 50lbs: 10,10
DB weighted back extension (**added this in): 50lbs: 8,8,8

So. My squats sucked ass big time. It's not like I've ever been able to squat THAT much weight but today was abysmal. I think I was squatting 150lbs 5 weeks ago and now 115lbs for 3x3 was a huge struggle and I think I tweaked my back. I just have to tell myself (and believe it) that my strength will come back. Ain't nobody got time for lost strength! Can anyone explain the physiological reason as to why we get/feel weaker after taking short breaks (several weeks) even though we haven't lost weight?

We don't have a GHR and lying leg curls have always hurt my knees for some reason so I used seated leg curl instead. The workout didn't take very long so I added in DB weighted back extensions (which maybe I shouldn't have bc my back felt pooched by then). Glad that it took less than one hour to finish this workout.

Took photos and measurements this morning for reference. I'm starting off at 136lbs which is exactly where I left off before my break. I've been tracking food yesterday and today and will likely continue for a few weeks just to see. Yesterday was:
3041 cals, 96F/369C/173P. Today is still adding up. I think it's too much work to always add nutrition deets to the log but I'll do it for now to keep a record in one place with my workouts. I still have to get around to re-doing my nutrition cals.

I still have three workouts left in week 1 but already can't wait for week two where I can hopefully redeem myself a bit hee hee.

ETA: forgot to add. The DOMS I have today from yesterday's workout = OMFG.

[schnauzers]

Finally getting around to figuring out calories again using this:

2/Mifflin-St Jeor: WOMEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] -161

1.5-1.6 = Moderately Active (Moderately daily Activity & Moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)

Using 136lbs and 5'7.5"....(I thought I was taller but checked the info from my last Dr's appt and apparantly I'm only 5'7.5"; gotta verify that later.)


So that works out to BMR = [9.99x 61.8] + [6.25 x 171.45] - [4.92 x 33] - 161
=617.4 + 1071.6 - 162.4 - 161
=1366 x 1.5 = 2049

Goal is to bulk so 2049 + 20% = 2049 +410 =2459

2459 is apparently what I need to eat to bulk. However I was previously eating around 2800-3000 cals/day and not gaining weight quickly. I was using the food scale and measuring cups/spoons to measure and MFP to log. Some other members picked up on some errors in how I was entering grains so that might have accounted for some discrepancy but not huge. I've since verified the way I enter fruits/veg/dairy stuff, etc. and I can't detect any errors there. I also verified MFP's math and sometimes there were errors in the 20-80 calories range; again, nothing too huge. So not sure why it seems like I'm eating 2800+ on paper while I should only need around 2500. I can try tightening up my measuring/tracking even more but I'm not sure what else to double check (again).

As for macros: 136lbs x 1-1.25 for protein is 136-170g protein; 0.4-1 x 136lbs for fat is 55-136g fat and I'm not TOO concerned about carbs. I figure as long as my F/P minimums are met daily the rest of the calories can be whatever.

If I've goofed on any of the numbers above, I'd be happy for someone to point it out

May 26th food was: 2772 calories; 87gF/332gC/156gP

[rachelily]

Math looks good girl Easiest way to verify things is just to see how your body responds each week and go from there!

[LHarwood]

In..glad you've finally got a journal and starting PHAT.

[gobbles23]

The numbers don't really matter As long as you're being consistent- that's all that matters. Results tell you more than calculators

[schnauzers]

Aaaannddddd today the lower body DOMS has set in. It's quite humbling, lol.

Math looks good girl Easiest way to verify things is just to see how your body responds each week and go from there!

I'm thinking that might be the most headache-free way to do it. I am thinking of dropping the food tracking and using the scale as a gauge.

In..glad you've finally got a journal and starting PHAT.

Yay! I looked at your log a lot before starting PHAT so I'm glad you're here

The numbers don't really matter As long as you're being consistent- that's all that matters. Results tell you more than calculators

Amen! I think I was getting too hung up on tracking stuff and too focused on the actual numbers. It got a bit tedious and too time consuming and very distracting. I think I need to use a results based approach for a while.

Question for you all (and maybe I should put this in a separate thread from a related topic I started): I'f I'm not tracking what I eat, how often should I weigh to make sure I"m gaining weight? Every day seems pointless and subject to too many fluctuations (plus every day is annoying). Would twice a week be good enough? I want a good balance of often enough to catch stalls but not so often that I'll be suject to day to day fluctuations.

[gobbles23]

Pick a day, once a week

[LHarwood]

Pick a day, once a week

This^^ I weighed in fortnightly but wish I'd have done it weekly. Ill be doing it weekly on this cut tho.

[flyfreefit]

In... I will also be starting PHAT today. We can share stories

[schnauzers]

Pick a day, once a week

This^^ I weighed in fortnightly but wish I'd have done it weekly. Ill be doing it weekly on this cut tho.

Done! I weighed myself on Sunday so Sunday it is.

In... I will also be starting PHAT today. We can share stories

Ha...I *just* found your log too. It'll be PHun (lol?) to cheer each other on. Right now I'm wallowing in DOMS, hoping I get some relief by tomorrow because it'll be my first hyper day.

[schnauzers]

May 27ths food deets: 2761 cals, 95F,337C, 142P (maybe I should just do a weekly post with nutrition info in one place)

PHAT-Week 1
Back/Shoulders Hypertrohpy

Pendlay rows: 65lbs 6x3 (these felt way too light but I guess that's what the program is asking for speed work)
seated row: 105lbs: 10,9,8 (used narrow grip bar)
DB row: 45lbs: 15, 15 (each side)
rack chins: 8,8, 8
close grip pulldown: 75lbs-16,15
DB shrugs: 50lb DB: 12, 12
DB shoulder press: 20lbs-12; 25lbs-12, 10
DB lat raises: 8lbs-20, 15,15

Rack chins: I've never done these before PHAT. They felt so hardddddd. Why???

DB rows: I did them from a flat bench instead of bracing on an incline....how does bracing an incline change the focus?

DB lateral raises: this ended up being my first major hurdle. MAJOR clicking and lots of pain in my right shoulder. I worked through the pain but I don't want to continue doing that. I asked in the Exercises forum about a substitute for these. Stupid old shoulder injury!

Now to catch up on other journals....

[schnauzers]

PHAT- Week 1
Lower body hypertrohpy

Sqauts @ 65-70% of 3-5RM: 80lbsx3; 75lbsx3 x5 sets
V- Squat: 180lbs x 12, 250x 12lbs, 270x12
Leg press: 160lbs x12, 12
Leg extension: 90lbs: 15, 15, 15
RDL: 95lbs: 12, 12, 12
DB hyper extension (instead of lying leg curls): 40lbs: 15, 12
seated leg curls: 75lbs: 20, 20
horizontal calf press (seated) (subbed for donkey calf raises): 130lbs: 15; 150: 15, 15, 15
seated calf raise: 40lbs: 15, 15, 14

Meh. I'm still only managing to move lighter weights. Today felt a bit longer but still got the workout done in less than an hour.

Not sure if I'm doing the V squat right....as it didn't feel as hard as I thought it would for the weight I used. Too bad our gym doesn't have a hack squat. I know I could use the Smith machine or do a BB hack squat but I thought I'd try the V squat machine instead as it's less effort to set up lol.

[schnauzers]

PHAT- Week 1 (workout from May 30)
Chest and Arms Hypertrophy

Flat DB bench press (@65-80% 3-5RM): 30lbs 6x3
Incline DB bench press: 35lbs: 12, 8, 8
Hammer strength chest press: 40lbs-15,15,15
Incline cable flyes: 15lbs: 15,15
Cambered bar preacher curls: 27.5lbs-12,12,12
DB concentration curls: 15lbs-15,15
Spider curls: 25lbs-20,18
seated cambered bar extension: 27.5lbs-12,11,10
cable rope pressdown: 60lbs-15,15
cable kickbacks: 10lbs-20,20

PHAT-Week 2 (June 1)
Upper Body Power

Pendlay rows: 95lbs-5,5,5
Pull ups (pronated grip): 10-green band assisted; 10- orange band assisted
Rack chins (feet on floor for now): 10,10
Flat DB bench press: 35lbs-5, 40lbs-5,5
weighted dips: 40lbs assistance: 8,9
shoulder press DB: 25lbs-9,9,8
cambered bar curls: 40-10, 42.5-10,9
skull crushers: 32.5lbs-10,10,10

Week Nutrition Summary:

May 25: 3041 cals, 96F, 369C, 173P
May 26: 2772 cals, 87F, 332C, 156P
May 27: 2761 cals, 95F, 337C, 142P
May 28: 2821 cals, 122F, 274C, 154P
May 29: 2798 cals, 111F, 290C, 157P
May 30: 2831 cals, 100F, 327C, 158P
May 31: 3013 cals, 105F, 376C, 151P
June 1: 3705 cals, 149F, 410C, 181P (ok, so I went a bit overboard here...)

Weighted started off at: 136lbs on May 25th. I weighed myself mid week (can't remember now if Wed or Thursday) and I was still 136lbs. Just popped on the scale now Sunday morning and it said 139lbs. Lol? I ate a lot of lasagna yesterday so maybe the weight is just carby bloating. Lower body power day is today so will post more later....

[rachelily]

I'm so jealous of your calories

[schnauzers]

I'm so jealous of your calories

I bet you aren't jealous of the three extra lbs or the jiggly thighs!!!Hee hee

Today's workout was enjoyable enough....

PHAT Week 2
Lower Body Power

squat: 115lbs-5,4,3
V squat: 270-10, 290-10
leg extensions: 110lbs-10,10
SLDL: 95lbs-8, 100lbs-8, 105 lbs-8
seated leg curl: 90-10, 95-10
standing calf raise:110lbs-10, 10, 10
seated calf raise: 40lbs-10, 10
DB back extension: 50lbs-8,8,8

And because I didn't feel like leaving the gym yet...

hanging leg raise: 4x10
anti rotation static hold @ cables: 30lbs x30sec each side x3

[rachelily]

Haha I love that you didn't feel like leaving the gym and just kept going

[schnauzers]

Haha I love that you didn't feel like leaving the gym and just kept going

LOl. I guess in my mind I set aside a certain amount of time for the gym and if I'm not done yet I just keep doing stuff or loiter a bit.

PHAT-Week 2
Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy Day

Pendlay Row: 65lbs x 3, 70lbs x 3 x5 (seems so light but I guess that's what the program says so....)
Rack chins: 12, 10, 10 (BW, feet on floor)
Seated cable row: 95lbs-10;90lbs-10, 10 (had to lower the weight to make sure form was good)
DB row against incline bench: 20lbs-20, 25lbs -13
Narrow grip pulldown: 80lbs -17, 15 (had to use a different station than last time so maybe that's why I was able to use more weight?)
Seated DB shoulder press: 25lbs- 12, 12, 9
Shrugs: 45lbs-15, 15
DB lat raises: 8lbs- 20, 20
Upright DB row: 10lbs 15, 15

I realized that I did the DB row wrong last time so corrected it this time by lying against an incline bench. Did shrugs instead of upright rows. And then at the end of my workout I decided to try DB upright rows just to see and you know what? My shoulder's didn't click this time. Also, DB lat raises were clicky but not painful. Weights are still low-ish but I *feel* stronger so maybe it's like my muscles are finally starting to wake up after that 5 week break.

My gym will be closing for three days for maintenance so I have to use alternate locations for the next two workouts which annoys me. Mainly because the other locations are as well equipped so I'm worried I'm gonna get there and not be able to do the program properly. I'm hoping they'll at least have enough equipment that I can MacGyver exercises that are at least similar to what I'm supposed to be doing. *fingers crossed*

__________________________________________________ _________

I need new clothes for work, mainly some bottoms. I usually just wear dresses and skirts but I need some crop pants for the summer too. I bought a few a week or so ago and tried them on last night and my legs look like ham hocks. I feel like I should return them because they're so tight now that if I continue to bulk, they're gonna bust open at the seams in a month or so. I don't want to invest in clothes that I won't be able to wear for very long. But I need new stuff. I know #firstworldproblems (lol). Maybe I'll just keep wearing the same old stuff. The good thing with dresses and stretchy skirts is no waist band to muffin top over!!! So I can expand and the clothes will too

[rachelily]

During the summer I live in shorts with the frayed hems cause if they get tight, they just stretch a bit along the raw edge. And I have learned to love pants with STRETCH in em! Not like yoga pants at work but not quite jeggings.. too stretchy. But I never buy anything with less than 1-2% spandex in it. I feel you on the muffin top tho.. NO tight tops for me while bulking, so loose tops only to hide the muffin haha!!

[schnauzers]

During the summer I live in shorts with the frayed hems cause if they get tight, they just stretch a bit along the raw edge. And I have learned to love pants with STRETCH in em! Not like yoga pants at work but not quite jeggings.. too stretchy. But I never buy anything with less than 1-2% spandex in it. I feel you on the muffin top tho.. NO tight tops for me while bulking, so loose tops only to hide the muffin haha!!

I'm good with weekend clothes....don't mind if I'm spilling over those, lol. But looking put together for work as my clothes feel smaller is tough

WEEK 2-Legs Hypertrophy Day

squat @ 65-70% 3-5RM: 75lbs-6x3
goblet squat, narrow stance, heels on step platform: 55lbs: 3x12 (see below...)
leg extension: 90lbs-13, 75-15, 15
seated leg press: 95lbs-15,15
RDL: 95lbs: 12,12,12
DB hyperextension: 40lbs 15, 12,
seated leg curls: 75lbs-20,17
seated calf raise: 95lbs resistance + 30lbs plates: 20, 15, 20
standing calf raise: 110lbs-10,10,10,10

Ugghghhhhhhghghg. So. My gym is closed for three days so I had to use an alternate location. What gym doesn't have a leg press, or hack squat or V spat machine??? Well, this one didn't! So I had to use an exercise to target the quads, hence the goblet squat with heels raised. I couldn't remember how to do the hack squat with the Smith machine so that's the best I could do.

The machines I used all felt different and so the weights felt off. It could have just my imagination or my being pouty about having to use an ill-equipped gym but everything at the weight I used last week felt SO hard today. I was pissed that I had to lower some of the weights. I guess I told myself that it's because the machines don't always compare.

BUT.....I dunno...maybe I'm being impatient or something but this is week 2 on PHAT after a 5 week break. Still bulking, still eating a lot. Still put on weight recently. BUT....I feel so damn weak. My muscles feel like they get so damn tired during the sets. WTF? If anyone is reading this....could I be doing something wrong? It's not like I'm a total noob who has no strength to being with. And it's not like I'm not eating enough. Maaaayyybe lacking on the quality sleep but my body doesn't feel tired during the day. So, I dunno.

I have to do one more workout at that ****ty gym tomorrow. I noticed they didn't have a cambered bar nor an EZ curl bar...wtf??

[rachelily]

Man I hate that more than anything!! My rec center back at school didn't have a sled leg press which drove me nuts, and the only one they had were for single legs! And my gym now at my new apartment is different weight wise too.. usually on extensions I do 130 and on this I can only do 55?!

[Miranda]

My muscles feel like they get so damn tired during the sets. WTF? If anyone is reading this....could I be doing something wrong?

dat dere volume p'haps?

[schnauzers]

dat dere volume p'haps?

But even relatively speaking when taking into account the volume I feel so incapable right now.

I guess it could just be my lack of experience with high volume training which caused me to choose the wrong weight for the required reps. I'm thinking of backing off the weight a bit, double-triple checking form and proper range of motion and then planning an uphill ride from there. I guess I have to take one step back before I take two forward for now.

[Miranda]

But even relatively speaking when taking into account the volume I feel so incapable right now.

yes but that can be because it takes time for training effects catch up on you. it's not all-instant.

I guess it could just be my lack of experience with high volume training which caused me to choose the wrong weight for the required reps. I'm thinking of backing off the weight a bit, double-triple checking form and proper range of motion and then planning an uphill ride from there.

hm. your 1st priority is to keep the intensity, not volume.

how do you execute your reps? regardless of the rep range, you should *struggle* with the last 1-2 reps without going to failure. if you're executing the reps properly, lowering the weight doesn't fix the issue, because then the weight you use will be too light.

hence your best bet is to decrease volume, not intensity. more is not better

[schnauzers]

Ok good info thanks. Actually I'm just almost going to failure. Like, I'm almost dying my the last rep and my muscles are burning. If the exercise calls for, say, 3 sets of 12-15 reps and I use a weight and just barely get the 15th rep, I try lowering the weight for the next set so I can get more reps next time.

But based on what you said, I should keep the weight the same and just go for 12 reps. And if I'm even dying to complete 12 reps then I've chosen the wrong weight. Is that correct? Since the exercises are all given rep ranges I can try just aiming for the bottom of the rep range for now. And then would I add the additional reps of the range when I can manage doing the reps at the bottom of the range? So 75 lb leg press for 12-15 reps....just do 12 for now. Do that until it feel easy and that I could add on more reps while still using 75lbs. OR always stick to the 12 and move the weight up and keep reps constant?

[Miranda]

Ok good info thanks. Actually I'm just almost going to failure. Like, I'm almost dying my the last rep and my muscles are burning. If the exercise calls for, say, 3 sets of 12-15 reps and I use a weight and just barely get the 15th rep, I try lowering the weight for the next set so I can get more reps next time.

But based on what you said, I should keep the weight the same and just go for 12 reps. And if I'm even dying to complete 12 reps then I've chosen the wrong weight. Is that correct? Since the exercises are all given rep ranges I can try just aiming for the bottom of the rep range for now. And then would I add the additional reps of the range when I can manage doing the reps at the bottom of the range? So 75 lb leg press for 12-15 reps....just do 12 for now. Do that until it feel easy and that I could add on more reps while still using 75lbs. OR always stick to the 12 and move the weight up and keep reps constant?

it's not the number of reps in a single exercise but the total accumulated number of reps (=volume) that is the likely cause of your issues.

'hypertrophy' is a compromise between progressive tension overload, volume/TUT and frequency. that means you need to compromise between different variables in order to optimise the whole system. what PHAT does, in my humble opinion, is overemphasise one variable (volume) at the expense of others.

too much volume leads to metabolic fatigue in part due to lowering glycogen. not only does it lead to poorer ability to grow, but it puts an overemphasis on the endurance (reps) aspect at the expense of strength (increased overload). you cannot build optimal strength and optimal endurance at the same time. much like you can't be a powerlifting champ and a marathon running champ at the same time. you need to compromise.

all hypertrophy programs have a strength aspect at their core and added volume to increase TUT. if the total volume of the whole is more than you can handle you cut back on volume, not strength. given PHAT contains redundant high-volume sets, you drop a few of those and keep the rest. but then you woudn't be doing PHAT which might be as well, because it's a program for advanced trainees, not intermediates.

make sense?

[schnauzers]

Yeah makes sense.

Ok so I have to face the fact that I may have chosen the wrong program. I admit that I based the majority of my decision on the recommendations of others, which has worked for me in the past. But maybe I over simplified choosing a program this time.

I'm only on week 2 of PHAT so maybe I should cut my loses and look for another program. Thing is, I don't want to waste more time shopping around for a program since I recently took 5 weeks off. I mean, I'm willing to hunt one down but not stop PHAT cold turkey in the meantime.

I know you have pointed me in the direction of Lyle's program. I've bookmarked that thread but it'll take some time to go through it as I recall is was a lengthy one. In your opinion (and I know it's not fair for you to answer this for someone else) but should I consider other programs?

Also, I do need to get around to reading Lyles stuff but I think most of it relates to fat loss, right? And since I need to bulk I don't want to read his stuff and get distracted with learning fat loss stuff when clearly I should focus on learning about bulking and hypertrophy.

Appreciate the help big time! I need to figure out how this rep system works and dish out reps for ya