I had read that while being pretty much equal, and could be used as alternatives to each other in program cycles, that the weighted dip had a slight edge. Is there a difference?
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Thread: Bench Press Vs. Weighted Dips
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08-05-2003, 08:47 AM #1
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08-05-2003, 09:21 AM #2
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08-05-2003, 10:08 AM #3
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They compliment each other very well, but hit different areas. If you're referring to flat or incline bench vs. dips.
I love dips. They are my favorite, but I still love benching as much so I use both. Really completes the chest workout. Personally I don't care for decline and don't feel they do much, unless you use dumbbells perhaps, as you have a tendency to use too much shoulder on declines.
Dips done the right way for chest is all chest for the most part and you feel right away.
Did I mention I love them."Franco is pretty smart, but Franco's a child, and when it comes to the day of the contest, I am his father. He comes to me for advices. So it's not that hard for me to give him the wrong advices." - Arnold Schwarzenegger - Pumping Iron
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08-05-2003, 10:15 AM #4
Wide-grip dips are beautiful
The 24-Hour Fitness I train at has a few shortcomings. One of them is the lack of a dipping bar, particularly one with a wide grip.
Wide grip dips (arms really wide) is fantastic for the pectoralis major. If you skin yourself (please don't) and look at your pecs, you'll see that the muscle fibers (or rather, groups of fibers, known as fascicles) are aligned in a 'sun burst' type of pattern. If you want to take full advantage of this fiber alignment pattern when you work your pecs, do wide-grip dips.
By the way, the fiber alignment pattern (FAP) concept of exercise selection is something that you can do for every muscle group.
Best,
Rob
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08-05-2003, 10:23 AM #5
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Re: Wide-grip dips are beautiful
Originally posted by robertthoburn
Wide grip dips (arms really wide) is fantastic for the pectoralis major.
And lean forward while you're at so you use more chest as well."Franco is pretty smart, but Franco's a child, and when it comes to the day of the contest, I am his father. He comes to me for advices. So it's not that hard for me to give him the wrong advices." - Arnold Schwarzenegger - Pumping Iron
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08-05-2003, 10:42 AM #6
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08-05-2003, 11:00 AM #7
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How much do you have to lean forward. Yesterday was my chest/tricep day and while I was doing the dips (right now its just my body weight no added weight yet.) I was thinking about this forum while doing all three sets. And thinking "lean forward to kil lyour chest"
Either way I try to lean forward and can only do it by a few degree's. More of the time I'm like straight up and down and a few degree's forward. ANd I don't feel it in my chest UTNIL I jump off the bars. That's when my chest hurts. While I'm doing it I feel it all in my arms. SO I know its hitting my chest. I love dipsThe Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and hear all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds. ~Henry Rollins
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08-05-2003, 11:19 AM #8
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Don't have to lean forward much at all. Having arms away from your body is what really hits the chest. Like if you were bench pressing. But try tucking your chin into your chest and bending your legs up so you just don't hang straight up and down. That usually helps to lean you forward a little easier.
"Franco is pretty smart, but Franco's a child, and when it comes to the day of the contest, I am his father. He comes to me for advices. So it's not that hard for me to give him the wrong advices." - Arnold Schwarzenegger - Pumping Iron
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08-05-2003, 11:20 AM #9
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That's how I usually do it but I don't have the whole chin bending thing. But I do have my legs curled upward.
Now I say in like a month at max I'm gonna have to start adding weight. What do I do just take like a 5 pound DB and slap it between my knees?The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and hear all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds. ~Henry Rollins
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08-05-2003, 11:27 AM #10
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If you can, get a dipping belt. As you gain strength, it will be more difficult to hold a DB between your legs. Can start that way, but I find it a little awkward. Dipping belts are great and look cool.
"Franco is pretty smart, but Franco's a child, and when it comes to the day of the contest, I am his father. He comes to me for advices. So it's not that hard for me to give him the wrong advices." - Arnold Schwarzenegger - Pumping Iron
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08-05-2003, 11:43 AM #11
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ya I was just thinkin that. Ya those beasts down there can lift a few hundred but I don't see holding a 60 pound db as possible.
Is this what you mean by a dipping belt?
http://www.ast-ss.com/q_a/images/jeff_5-8%20Dips.jpgThe Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and hear all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds. ~Henry Rollins
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08-05-2003, 11:51 AM #12
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Originally posted by ReSpAwN DeMoN
Is this what you mean by a dipping belt?
http://www.ast-ss.com/q_a/images/jeff_5-8%20Dips.jpg
I got mine from this site. Good price. Made by Grizzly. They have the fabric and leather type. Leather seems to be better for holding heavier weights, but the fabric one is more comfortable. So it's a preference choice.
I have both types. I use the leather for dips as I use a lot of weight for that and I use the fabric for weighted pullups since I don't use much weight there. I'm lazy, so this way I didn't have to change plates each time I did the pullups or dips.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/belts.html"Franco is pretty smart, but Franco's a child, and when it comes to the day of the contest, I am his father. He comes to me for advices. So it's not that hard for me to give him the wrong advices." - Arnold Schwarzenegger - Pumping Iron
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08-05-2003, 11:52 AM #13
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08-05-2003, 07:44 PM #14Originally posted by Overload
Don't have to lean forward much at all. Having arms away from your body is what really hits the chest. Like if you were bench pressing. But try tucking your chin into your chest and bending your legs up so you just don't hang straight up and down. That usually helps to lean you forward a little easier.
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08-05-2003, 08:14 PM #15
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You're making sense. I have a dip and lat tower like you described so that is what you would use. I wish I could find a good picture to show you. It would be easier. I'm attaching a pic I found.
The grip wouldn't change because like you said, the bars are set at a certain width. It's your elbows that need to be flared out away from your body.
In the attached pics it's a little hard to see, but his elbows (arms) are away from his body and that uses less triceps. They're not tucked in to his sides. Notice he also has his chin tucked in to help with the lean.
Also, don't lock out at the top. In the pic, the guy seems to have locked out and you can see the tricep flexing. If you do, you'll be using triceps again.
Once you get the hang of it, you'll be able to tell the difference because you won't really feel it in your triceps at all. They'll get somewhat pumped, but it's your chest that will be screaming. LOL"Franco is pretty smart, but Franco's a child, and when it comes to the day of the contest, I am his father. He comes to me for advices. So it's not that hard for me to give him the wrong advices." - Arnold Schwarzenegger - Pumping Iron
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08-05-2003, 10:15 PM #16
Dips (weighted or without weights) target the lower chest muscles for that cut square pec look as well as the triceps. The flat bench press generally targets the mid portion and larges portion of the pecs as well as the side-boob (i dont know the real name). Incline bench targets mainly the upper pec and is shown to increase chest size by 30%. Incorporate all into a chest workout to workout all parts of the huge muscle.
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08-05-2003, 10:17 PM #17
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08-06-2003, 12:50 AM #18Originally posted by Fatboywang14
Dips (weighted or without weights) target the lower chest muscles for that cut square pec look as well as the triceps. The flat bench press generally targets the mid portion and larges portion of the pecs as well as the side-boob (i dont know the real name). Incline bench targets mainly the upper pec and is shown to increase chest size by 30%. Incorporate all into a chest workout to workout all parts of the huge muscle.
you can't make your pecs look square - there is no upper/lower/mid portion of the chest - the chest is the pectoralis major which is one muscle (with two heads) the muscle either contracts or relaxes as one whole unit, if I do incline bench tomorrow my chest will be 30% bigger - yeah right
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08-06-2003, 06:32 AM #19
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Originally posted by D&G
there is no upper/lower/mid portion of the chest - the chest is the pectoralis major which is one muscle"Franco is pretty smart, but Franco's a child, and when it comes to the day of the contest, I am his father. He comes to me for advices. So it's not that hard for me to give him the wrong advices." - Arnold Schwarzenegger - Pumping Iron
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08-06-2003, 08:05 AM #20
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Originally posted by D&G
What a load of BS,
you can't make your pecs look square - there is no upper/lower/mid portion of the chest - the chest is the pectoralis major which is one muscle (with two heads) the muscle either contracts or relaxes as one whole unit, if I do incline bench tomorrow my chest will be 30% bigger - yeah right
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08-06-2003, 08:07 AM #21
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Originally posted by Overload
The chest is made up of Pectoralis Major, Minor and Serratus Anterior. So by using different angles you can hit different parts of your chest. If it was just one big section, why bother with inclines or dips then?
I like doing a varyety of chest exercises to build strenght in many angles and to keep my CNS fresh .........
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08-06-2003, 09:55 AM #22
I've done every chest exercise imaginable in different combinations for 16+ years. I can say the same for quadriceps, hamstrings, etc.
I routinely do as much as 30 sets per muscle group. For the sake of SANITY, I do multiple exercises.
If I were to stick with the same basic (compound) exercise for each muscle group, I feel that I would get the same results. Genetics --muscle architecture and muscle fiber abundance-- is what determines the ultimate shape of your muscle. Choosing different exercises really won't affect this in general.
That being said, there were studies done back in the 1990s (I forget by who) that suggested that the order of motor unit recruitment can vary for different biceps exercises. Thus, there might be some merit in varying the order of your biceps exercises, or at least doing more than one exercise for this muscle group.
Rob
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