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  1. #211
    Registered User XShreddedX's Avatar
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    just gonna chime in on the cardio aspect, while bulking i prefer 4-5 sessions of HIIT a week too,a tabata sessions after upperbody days on either a sledgehammer or heavy bag, and 4-5 30-40yd car pushes or a strongman event (like tire flips) after lower days. I consider these to almost be "finisheres to the workout in a sense" On off days i either rest do liss walking outside or do hill sprints on the minute for 10 mins (sprint up every minute for 5-20 seconds, and the remaining time is your rest)

    I feel it keeps me very lean, doesnt consume much time(anywhere from 50-90min max a week, can even get lower depending on my current volume/ intensity and if its a deload week or not), and helps with blood flow/ recovery as i base the sessions around my weight sessions.

    just my.02, keep it short and intense, and make it compliment your training
    Last edited by XShreddedX; 06-11-2013 at 09:51 PM.
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  2. #212
    Chicken Legs Brah lukamura's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Devils View Post
    Hi, what are your goals, are you looking to put on size or are you cutting?

    Yeah that change looks good, go with 75 and see how you go. Try to consume the protein and fat together and the carbs more towards the end of the shift or lunctime.
    I'm cutting, taking it slowly, it's like 30ish week. I went from 185 (pretty fat) to 155 (at the moment). Light glute strations showing if good lighting, I want to cut as long as it doesn't affect my gym performance which is simply progressing eventho I'm in a deficit and then slow, lean bulk until 2015 and cut for my first show ever.

    My weight stayed the same after I uped my fats by 25, I'm happy because always the day after the work I felt kinda ''weak'' hitting a new low in the morning but today I woke up kinda fresh and hard. Figured my maintenance at that day which is approx 3500 kcals. Great change I guess. I'll keep my fats at 55-60 still, seems to work best for me on my workout/no job days.
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  3. #213
    Registered User Devils's Avatar
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    Day 4, Week 4 Rest/Cardio

    Morning Weight = 76.1kg


    Training

    Morning - Swim and sauna, 30 minutes
    Evening - Spin Bike Windgates, 4 x 30 seconds, 90 seconds rest

    *

    Nutrition

    Approx 2,881 calories, 213.3p, 304.2c, 98.1f

    Omelet and a WPC coffee.
    1 WPC Shake
    Large chicken pizza,

    WPC Shake,
    Snapper with soy sauce, yogurt.

    *

    Thoughts

    Completely respectable today, rest day, just did some swimming in the morning and tried out the sauna and bike at night. Getting a sneaky deal on the pizza's, there $11 in the gourmet section but I wait till their at the use buy date then snap them up on special for $4!, I can just freeze them for later too. Not bad for 70p, 140c and 70f
    Last edited by Devils; 06-12-2013 at 06:03 PM.
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  4. #214
    Registered User Rezlov's Avatar
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    Devils, when do you cardio, prior to lifting or after lifting? If prior, do you feel it affects your lifts any? And do you emphasize any sort of nutrition after cardio?

    Appreciate the log. Lots of good info in here.
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  5. #215
    Registered User Crazyups's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rezlov View Post
    Devils, when do you cardio, prior to lifting or after lifting? If prior, do you feel it affects your lifts any? And do you emphasize any sort of nutrition after cardio?

    Appreciate the log. Lots of good info in here.
    Always wondered is your if you moniker was relative to this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUQoAzEZwHE

    anyways, great work on reverse dude!!! Wish I had your discipline!!
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  6. #216
    Registered User Devils's Avatar
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    Morning Weight = 75.1kg Well fuck, I guess the sauna yesterday dehydrated me. I mean I'm happy to eat lots of calories, maybe I need de-worming or something!

    I did do 2 cardio sessions yesterday though and hit maintenance calories so that would explain things.

    Originally Posted by Rezlov View Post
    Devils, when do you cardio, prior to lifting or after lifting? If prior, do you feel it affects your lifts any? And do you emphasize any sort of nutrition after cardio?

    Appreciate the log. Lots of good info in here.

    Any time, on leg days I like to do it first as I would be knackered if I tried it after training legs. I don't really notice any ill effects, but remember I cant do squats or big leg press so I need to build my fatigue another way. I feel fresh for my leg curls, calf raise and hip adduction, my quads are slightly hindered from the bike but this allows me to get increased effect from lighter weight, which is better for me.

    Yeah sure, a balanced meal of protein (enough to start protein synthesis) a larger amount of carbs and some moderate amount of fats to assist digestion.

    Originally Posted by Crazyups View Post
    Always wondered is your if you moniker was relative to this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUQoAzEZwHE

    anyways, great work on reverse dude!!! Wish I had your discipline!!
    Not sure what that video's about, is it the right one?

    You do have my discipline, you got as shredded as any top pro you will see and maintained it for weeks. I know how that feels and you cant do that without the mental discipline to do so. Good work thanks for posting!
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  7. #217
    Registered User TheNaturalOak's Avatar
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    alright man, coming to you with my current experience.

    Want a successful reverse! But it just seems impossible.

    Prep Low weight: 162.4lbs (depleted)
    Fri morn 163lbs, Fri night (official weigh in) 165lbs
    Sat/Sun celebration, Assuming 5,000 calories per day

    Mon: 173lbs! (holy ****) so I hit low calories to make up for it
    Tue: 171lbs still high, hit low calories to clean up mess
    Wed: 168.8lbs finely getting there, off day so continue low calories

    Now I'll assume I weigh in tomrw ~166lbs but the truth is, I already feel out of shape in my abdominal area! Legs/arms still vascular though. I'm not even reversing though because im obviously still in a deficit. I'm hesitant to raise my calories because just two days worth of not tracking I blew up.

    Edit^ was rushed with this comment so I'll finish now..

    What I'm getting at is even if I hit my 165lb stage weight, I'm positive my stomach will still look different/worse. Is this just water retention? (despite being same weight?)
    Last edited by TheNaturalOak; 06-12-2013 at 08:15 PM.
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  8. #218
    Registered User Devils's Avatar
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    Day 5, Week 4 Upper Body

    Morning Weight = 75.1kg


    Training

    Barbell Bench Press 20kg x 25, 40kg x 15, 60kg x 4, 80kg x 12-12, 105kg x 6-6
    Incline Dumbbell Press 28kg x 12-12, 34kg x 12
    Pullups 30kg x 12-12, 40kg x 8-8, 50kg x 5
    Machine 1 Arm Row 59kg x 12, 73kg x 10-10

    *

    Nutrition

    Approx 4,954 calories, 249p, 480.5c, 231.6f

    Omelet with 5 slices of bread and jam, WPC coffee,
    Spoon of PB and slice of cheese,
    1 Red Rooster AVO BLT sub, 1 double bacon and cheese sub, 1 bbq cheeseburger, 4 cheesy nuggets,
    Chinese BBQ pork and Duck with rice and garlic vegetables.
    Ice cream with peanut m&m's

    *

    Thoughts

    Met up with some mates at a new gym that just opened it's expansions, huge area and brand new equipment. FUCKING killed this workout, shredded, I don't think my legs were this separated on the day of the show. Something about those sauna's and potassium loading.

    Went out for some fast food later, stuffed myself silly. Didn't eat again till night, picked up my gf and got some Chinese bbq and rice. Rounded it off with some Ice cream and peanut m&m's, my favorite. Lets see if that gets things moving.

    --------------------------------

    Originally Posted by TheNaturalOak View Post
    alright man, coming to you with my current experience.

    Want a successful reverse! But it just seems impossible.

    Prep Low weight: 162.4lbs (depleted)
    Fri morn 163lbs, Fri night (official weigh in) 165lbs
    Sat/Sun celebration, Assuming 5,000 calories per day

    Mon: 173lbs! (holy ****) so I hit low calories to make up for it
    Tue: 171lbs still high, hit low calories to clean up mess
    Wed: 168.8lbs finely getting there, off day so continue low calories

    Now I'll assume I weigh in tomrw ~166lbs but the truth is, I already feel out of shape in my abdominal area! Legs/arms still vascular though. I'm not even reversing though because im obviously still in a deficit. I'm hesitant to raise my calories because just two days worth of not tracking I blew up.

    Edit^ was rushed with this comment so I'll finish now..

    What I'm getting at is even if I hit my 165lb stage weight, I'm positive my stomach will still look different/worse. Is this just water retention? (despite being same weight?)
    Essentially yes, your water balance should return to normal, keep drinking the amount of water you were through prep and take your lowest calorie limit from your last week of dieting and add 300 calories. Wait 2-3 days and if your weight goes down add another 200, if it stays the same add another 200, if it increases keep it at 300.

    Remember carbs store water, **** stores water (think of all that food you need to digest) and your skin stores water. Start training WELL, push the reps, try to slowly bring things up and stay motivated.

    If you're dropping cardio expect that your maintenance will change. I prefer to leave cardio in until your weight is clear for a few days, then start removing sessions.
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  9. #219
    Banned The Solution's Avatar
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    Your fat intake in one day is almost what I get in 5 days

    Lmao!
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  10. #220
    Fat in Heart Balddude's Avatar
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    Your calorie intake for today is 2.5x my normal daily calorie intake right now...lulz
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  11. #221
    Real PhD/Fake Bodybuilder adknows's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Your fat intake in one day is almost what I get in 5 days

    Lmao!
    This X 2.
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  12. #222
    Registered User chickeneater's Avatar
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    Nice work on the five thousand calories, and 200+ grams of fat.

    When you say 105kg for 6-6 or 30kg for 12-12 or whatever, what does that mean? 12 sets of 12 or 1 set of 12 and 1 more set of 12?

    *edit: please ramble about when you said "enough protein to start protein synthesis."

    I'm aware that it's a gray area as to exactly what protein synthesis is and when it exactly happens, but again I'm interested in your take on it.
    Last edited by chickeneater; 06-13-2013 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Add question
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  13. #223
    Registered User Devils's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Your fat intake in one day is almost what I get in 5 days

    Lmao!
    Originally Posted by Balddude View Post
    Your calorie intake for today is 2.5x my normal daily calorie intake right now...lulz
    Originally Posted by adknows View Post
    This X 2.
    lol yeah, probably went a little overboard! Lets just call it an experiment on the effects of binging and how to recover. Woke up at 76.7kg so 1.6kg heavier than yesterday morning. I'll demonstrate on how I would deal with binging if someone has a problem.

    Originally Posted by chickeneater View Post
    Nice work on the five thousand calories, and 200+ grams of fat.

    When you say 105kg for 6-6 or 30kg for 12-12 or whatever, what does that mean? 12 sets of 12 or 1 set of 12 and 1 more set of 12?

    *edit: please ramble about when you said "enough protein to start protein synthesis."

    I'm aware that it's a gray area as to exactly what protein synthesis is and when it exactly happens, but again I'm interested in your take on it.
    Hi, yeah the weight I am using is 105kg and the reps are 6, the "-" is the break between sets and the second number is the following set. So the other one would be 30kg dumbbells for 2 sets of 12 reps.

    There's a list somewhere of the amount of protein required to start protein synthesis, it seems to be directly related to leucine content. For whey it would be around 17g. The studies being done on leucine seems to show that the QUALITY of protein seems to matter more than the amount.

    For example, whey protein is superior to rice protein, simply because you would need to consume more rice protein to receive the same leucine content as the whey.

    I cant comment on what difference it would make to day to day gains, but it's interesting to talk about. Maybe it matters? who knows, try changing your protein amount and timing and see what happens. Thanks for the question.
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  14. #224
    Registered User TheNaturalOak's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Devils View Post
    Day 5, Week 4 Upper Body

    Morning Weight = 75.1kg


    Training

    Barbell Bench Press 20kg x 25, 40kg x 15, 60kg x 4, 80kg x 12-12, 105kg x 6-6
    Incline Dumbbell Press 28kg x 12-12, 34kg x 12
    Pullups 30kg x 12-12, 40kg x 8-8, 50kg x 5
    Machine 1 Arm Row 59kg x 12, 73kg x 10-10

    *

    Nutrition

    Approx 4,954 calories, 249p, 480.5c, 231.6f

    Omelet with 5 slices of bread and jam, WPC coffee,
    Spoon of PB and slice of cheese,
    1 Red Rooster AVO BLT sub, 1 double bacon and cheese sub, 1 bbq cheeseburger, 4 cheesy nuggets,
    Chinese BBQ pork and Duck with rice and garlic vegetables.
    Ice cream with peanut m&m's

    *

    Thoughts

    Met up with some mates at a new gym that just opened it's expansions, huge area and brand new equipment. FUCKING killed this workout, shredded, I don't think my legs were this separated on the day of the show. Something about those sauna's and potassium loading.

    Went out for some fast food later, stuffed myself silly. Didn't eat again till night, picked up my gf and got some Chinese bbq and rice. Rounded it off with some Ice cream and peanut m&m's, my favorite. Lets see if that gets things moving.

    --------------------------------



    Essentially yes, your water balance should return to normal, keep drinking the amount of water you were through prep and take your lowest calorie limit from your last week of dieting and add 300 calories. Wait 2-3 days and if your weight goes down add another 200, if it stays the same add another 200, if it increases keep it at 300.

    Remember carbs store water, **** stores water (think of all that food you need to digest) and your skin stores water. Start training WELL, push the reps, try to slowly bring things up and stay motivated.

    If you're dropping cardio expect that your maintenance will change. I prefer to leave cardio in until your weight is clear for a few days, then start removing sessions.
    Would rep if could

    Thanks for the info and motivation m8

    edit also keeping cardio in, maybe low the duration on a few days but overall keeping 4+ sessions in
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  15. #225
    Registered User Devils's Avatar
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    Day 6, Week 4 Rest

    Morning Weight = 76.7kg

    Training

    Swimming for around 30 minutes

    *

    Nutrition

    Approx 1,039 calories, 101.6p, 79.5c, 36.7f

    WPC coffee,
    Salad with pork mince,
    Pumpkin soup with pork mince,
    Egg and avacado salad, WPC Milo

    *

    Thoughts

    A bit lazy today, went for a swim in the morning but main gym's still closed. Didn't really feel motivated to train legs.
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  16. #226
    Registered User ShadowWolfe's Avatar
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    man your calories are a roller coaster, 4500 one day 1000 the next. Your activity level changes enough to have 3k+/- difference?
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  17. #227
    Registered User Devils's Avatar
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    Morning Weight = 74.7kg uuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wut
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  18. #228
    Inner Builder Ccm644's Avatar
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    Crazy,how your weight is so up and down but always working
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  19. #229
    Registered User Devils's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ShadowWolfe View Post
    man your calories are a roller coaster, 4500 one day 1000 the next. Your activity level changes enough to have 3k+/- difference?
    Originally Posted by Ccm644 View Post
    Crazy,how your weight is so up and down but always working
    So my method for damage control after a binge was;

    Drink lots of water, not heaps but about 1-2 liters more than normal,
    Add fiber if possible,
    Intermittent fast, If you eat 3 days worth of calories in one day, then there's no harm in eating 30% of normal calories the next day.
    Obviously don't do this often ^, it really isn't optimal or practical to eat like that.

    My activity level didn't change on my rest day, if anything I skipped training legs (I should have).

    Eating a large amount of calories in one day isn't a huge problem. Meals like that still take at least 48 hours to pass through the digestive tract and you're still not going to absorb 100% of calories consumed. So if you do find yourself going overboard, I would recommend at least a 500 calorie deficit for 1-3 days as a means of damage control. This should give enough time for your body to process the big day and for your weight to stabilize.

    Recognize binging as a problem that is not going to help you in bodybuilding long term, doing it once or twice a week would be taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back every time. So rather than messing with these crazy calorie variations each time, JUST EAT NORMAL.
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  20. #230
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    Originally Posted by Devils View Post
    So my method for damage control after a binge was;

    Drink lots of water, not heaps but about 1-2 liters more than normal,
    Add fiber if possible,
    Intermittent fast, If you eat 3 days worth of calories in one day, then there's no harm in eating 30% of normal calories the next day.
    Obviously don't do this often ^, it really isn't optimal or practical to eat like that.

    My activity level didn't change on my rest day, if anything I skipped training legs (I should have).

    Eating a large amount of calories in one day isn't a huge problem. Meals like that still take at least 48 hours to pass through the digestive tract and you're still not going to absorb 100% of calories consumed. So if you do find yourself going overboard, I would recommend at least a 500 calorie deficit for 1-3 days as a means of damage control. This should give enough time for your body to process the big day and for your weight to stabilize.

    Recognize binging as a problem that is not going to help you in bodybuilding long term, doing it once or twice a week would be taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back every time. So rather than messing with these crazy calorie variations each time, JUST EAT NORMAL.
    This thread is loaded with advice to help others and great recommendations!!
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  21. #231
    Registered User bunnybuilder's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Devils View Post
    Morning Weight = 74.7kg uuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wut
    Is that below your stage weight?

    I would think the fact you barely ate anything yesterday is the primary reason for that low weigh in. Was there a reason you dropped over 2000 below your average daily calories yesterday?
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    Originally Posted by bunnybuilder View Post
    Is that below your stage weight?

    I would think the fact you barely ate anything yesterday is the primary reason for that low weigh in. Was there a reason you dropped over 2000 below your average daily calories yesterday?
    Yes.

    and yes, because I went 2000 over my average calories the day before.
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  23. #233
    Chicken Legs Brah lukamura's Avatar
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    I'm out.
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    Originally Posted by Devils View Post
    Yes.

    and yes, because I went 2000 over my average calories the day before.
    gotcha. I thought from what I read above you said it was better to react to a "binge" day by going 500 below maintenance for a few days to stabilize. Seems more like a severe yo yoing type of thing to go from nearly 5000 to 1000 the next day. Not meaning to pick or offend...just trying to understand the thought process
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    How is Herakles not banned from this site at this point?
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  26. #236
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    Very good journal and training. One question: you mentioned that you are injured and cannot squat and leg press and I see all you do for your quads are leg extensions, step ups and HIIT. Is it possible to increase quad size just by leg extension and HIIT or are you just trying to maintain what you have? Hope this question has not been asked before!
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    Originally Posted by bunnybuilder View Post
    gotcha. I thought from what I read above you said it was better to react to a "binge" day by going 500 below maintenance for a few days to stabilize. Seems more like a severe yo yoing type of thing to go from nearly 5000 to 1000 the next day. Not meaning to pick or offend...just trying to understand the thought process
    All good points. I don't binge, the day before was full counted and planned. I'm acting like a guinea pig of sorts for this journal so I though it would be a good time to experiment with different methods. But yeah, yo-yo dieting and binging is stupid and you're not going to get anywhere by doing it, having the odd high calorie day isn't too bad as long as you account for slip ups if you have them. Obviously the more you do it the worse it gets.

    Going 500 below maintenance would be the more balanced way to go about it, but I didn't want to waste time so now I can continue with the journal as normal. Hope this answers your question.

    Originally Posted by tom11 View Post
    Very good journal and training. One question: you mentioned that you are injured and cannot squat and leg press and I see all you do for your quads are leg extensions, step ups and HIIT. Is it possible to increase quad size just by leg extension and HIIT or are you just trying to maintain what you have? Hope this question has not been asked before!
    We'll just have to see, my legs feel better and leaner than they have ever been. Obviously not as big as when I was squatting big weight for me but that was back when I was 85-90kg. I fully expect them to be just as good when I get back to that weight this time.
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  28. #238
    Chicken Legs Brah lukamura's Avatar
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    Devils, I fail to find what is that you can't squat heavy or at all?
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    Originally Posted by lukamura View Post
    Devils, I fail to find what is that you can't squat heavy or at all?
    I have a bulging disc in my lower back.
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    That ****ing sucks, anything you can do to fix this?
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