Serious political questions for Americans (srs)

[eddiegoodfellar]

Canadians have been indoctrinated from birth to trust that their government knows best.

LOL. Not at all brah. They try; but so does every country.

Good points on the car insurance though

[transformation2]

I either pay for it out of pocket or the hospital sells my debt to a collection agency. How does that affect you?

because the hospital sells it for cents on the dollar unless you can actually afford it out of pocket. Much of that gets shifted on to people who are insured and I forgot how much but it's a decent amount of extra cost imposed on insured people. I'll look it up.

http://familiesusa2.org/assets/pdfs/...health-tax.pdf

idk how legit that is but says 1k extra per family on average

[HumptyBrah]

because the hospital sells it for cents on the dollar unless you can actually afford it out of pocket. Much of that gets shifted on to people who are insured and I forgot how much but it's a decent amount of extra cost imposed on insured people. I'll look it up.

Please do, I'd be interested to see the figures. I'm always down to learn something new lulz.

As for my own debts, whenever I've needed emergency services I always set up a payment plan with the hospital and get it paid off.

[nutsy54]

How is this difference than car insurance?

How many times does this same failed argument need to be recycled...?

1. Car insurance doesn't apply to every single American simply by virtue of breathing
2. Car insurance is required only when you choose to buy a car, then choose to operate that care where it could injure others or damage their property
3. Car insurance protects others against your negligence/damage/injury. Health insurance protects you against your own health care costs
4. Everyone else in the country isn't forced to subsidize car insurance costs for those who can't afford it or refuse to pay

[Posthardcore]

What "basic rights" are you creating out of thin air? Who has a "right" to make others foot the bill for their actions and choices?

And I said nothing about planning. Since you want to argue with yourself, instead of my actual post, have fun with that....

The basic right of being treated, the basic right of life, unless you are a greedy cold-hearted douche, then of course you're not going to create such right out of thin air... da der green paper

[HumptyBrah]

The basic right of being treated, the basic right of life, unless you are a greedy cold-hearted douche, then of course you're not going to create such right out of thin air... da der green paper

Personal attacks and insults are definitely conducive to healthy debate, gjdm.

[Darknightbegins]

I live in Canada so I will tend to more Liberal than most.

UPDATED the TAX question ( due to very poor wording on my part )
Do you ever think the debt can be paid off by solely making to government more efficient without raising taxes?

How can America possible pay for Military, Education, Infrastructure and Regulation without raising Taxes?



The gun Laws
I here people saying that Obama want to take all the guns away and make them illegal. As far as I can tell he simply want to have a screening process and a registry. I always here people say that its everyone rate to have a gun........ Pretty sure convicts dont get guns ( they cant even vote ). Why would you care if you had to go though some screening to get a firearm?

Universal Heathcare
I married an American Nurse so I have a little bit more insight than most on this topic. Universal Healthcare is the standard all over the world and is not some socialist dog and pony show where you get a cold and die. MY wife (remember a nurse) said the USA healthcare system (politics and pricing) is a joke compared to Canada. Let me be clear; The care provided is top notch in the US; but same with Canada. In BC we pay something like $100 for a family for health care ( not including dental ). Why do Americans ( most ) talk about healthcare in Canada ( or anywhere else in the world ) as a joke and below standard; especially when they don't have any idea when they are talking about. Some people have told me how much Canadian health care sucks when they are not in a medical field and have never even been outside the USA.

Immigration
I always here people claiming that Mexicans ( 90% of the time ) are coming over and taking all our jobs. The simple solution would be to stop hiring illegals and they wont bother to come over. How is it the Illegals fault that someone willfully hired them rather than an American?




NFL > CFL though

No amount of taxes will pay off the debt we have. I'm not opposed to raising taxes, I am opposed to raising taxes when the government is throwing money away on stupid projects (cash for clunkers) and we are trying to dig out of an economic recession. Not a great time, imo, to start upping taxes when business are already having a hard enough time hiring people in a rough economic climate.

We don't trust large federal government programs, this is an answer for the guns issue and the healthcare issue. Simple as that. We are a country born in revolution and have a strong cultural distrust of government, especially federal government. The more involvement the government has in our lives the less freedom we have and we believe it will be a slipperly slope until they start interfering in other aspects of our lives.

It is impossible for you to really appreciate it because your country did not fight a war for its freedom. Just like I can't appreciate Europeans who like to have a nanny state take care of them from cradle to grave. Europeans think we are idiot savages and we think they are weak bitches unable to take care of themselves and need mommy (nanny state) to take care of them.

There are laws against business hiring illegals so it isn't like we aren't cracking down on them so I'm not sure where this is coming from other than a misunderstanding of what the laws on the books are. Maybe the fines against businesses that employ illegals don't get the kind of publicity as when ICE agents round up a bunch of illegals.

[Posthardcore]

Personal attacks and insults are definitely conducive to healthy debate, gjdm.

It is not a personal attack. It's part of my stance. Again, being a greedy cold-hearted douche is not inherently bad. It's just something that goes along with not giving a sh!t about many people and stereotyping them because of pieces of green paper.

I have no major issue with someone being self-centered, it's a different mentality. I have a problem though when people get all butthurt and defensive when they're called what they really are.

[HumptyBrah]

It is not a personal attack. It's part of my stance. Again, being a greedy cold-hearted douche is not inherently bad. It's just something that goes along with not giving a sh!t about many people and stereotyping them because of pieces of green paper.

I have no major issue with someone being self-centered, it's a different mentality. I have a problem though when people get all butthurt and defensive when they're called what they really are.

I'm not attacking you bro, I just think you're a greedy cold hearted douche. Don't get defensive bro, it's not an insult.

[nutsy54]

It is not a personal attack. It's part of my stance. Again, being a greedy cold-hearted douche is not inherently bad. It's just something that goes along with not giving a sh!t about many people and stereotyping them because of pieces of green paper.

Then why don't you voluntarily hand over all your pieces of green paper - instead of expecting the Government to force everyone else to pay those bills? Instead, you just hide behind personal attacks and insults. Truly pathetic.

[stealth_swimmer]

How much do we need to spend on education, infrastructure, military, etc at the federal level? I think way less than what the US federal government is spending now. So they can start cutting spending, there's plenty to cut and plenty of places to cut. Infrastructure, military, and education all sound good.

I think we should get rid of the Department of Education and let the private sector handle it, especially with all the low cost and even free of charge educational materials available these days. It's a matter of not restricting that sort of stuff, getting rid of standardized testing, and allowing more diversity and variety in the types of education that we can use.

I think infrastructure spending is highly overrated by partisans. Not all is equally efficient, not all is equally stimulative to the economy, not all is even useful. Something should have to make sense in order for it to be paid money for...and many times I think we should simply have the users pay for it rather than it be paid out of general tax revenue.

I think we spend way too much on the military in the US as well. We don't need to be in all these wars, we don't need TSA making flight experiences horrible (could simply rely more on airline security), we don't need all those bases around the world. We're not at war with Japan anymore, and WWII is long over - so we don't need a base there, that's one example.

Oh and drug prohibition is harmful, and we'd be better off without drug prohibition, so that would save money as well (not a whole lot in comparison to the total budget though).

Medicare should probably be means-tested so that only poor old people qualify and not rich old people. Possibly same for Social Security, or we're gonna have to raise the retirement age. Also could start giving people the option of opting out and/or privatizing it in a way so that you have the option of managing your account yourself and/or having someone you hire manage it for you.

[tnel00]

I live in Canada so I will tend to more Liberal than most.

UPDATED the TAX question ( due to very poor wording on my part )
Do you ever think the debt can be paid off by solely making to government more efficient without raising taxes? yes

How can America possible pay for Military, Education, Infrastructure and Regulation without raising Taxes? education shouldn't be paid for through the government. ending entitlements, limiting regulation, and allowing private infrastructure to be built along with public will all drastically decrease budget



The gun Laws
I here people saying that Obama want to take all the guns away and make them illegal. As far as I can tell he simply want to have a screening process and a registry. I always here people say that its everyone rate to have a gun........ Pretty sure convicts dont get guns ( they cant even vote ). Why would you care if you had to go though some screening to get a firearm? why not enforce the current laws now rather than enact new laws that will not stop criminals from getting guns (guess what numbnuts, quite a few criminals, i.e. former convicted felons have guns) but only make it harder for law abiding citizens to purchase a gun?

Universal Heathcare
I married an American Nurse so I have a little bit more insight than most on this topic. Universal Healthcare is the standard all over the world and is not some socialist dog and pony show where you get a cold and die. MY wife (remember a nurse) said the USA healthcare system (politics and pricing) is a joke compared to Canada. Let me be clear; The care provided is top notch in the US; but same with Canada. In BC we pay something like $100 for a family for health care ( not including dental ). Why do Americans ( most ) talk about healthcare in Canada ( or anywhere else in the world ) as a joke and below standard; especially when they don't have any idea when they are talking about. Some people have told me how much Canadian health care sucks when they are not in a medical field and have never even been outside the USA.first off, we subsidize quite a bit of your healthcare do to the price ceilings your country has set. all that new medical technology, thank the USA while you give us a blowjob with a smile on your face. Canada also has a population significantly smaller than the US, so government programs are naturally more efficient to run. If socialized health care was implemented here, which it looks like it will, it will do two things. It will create price ceilings on insurance premiums and deductibles for health care. This will create shortages in the private insurance health services fields. This will then lead to an eventual Government takeover of the system entirely with only a priveleged few being able to afford private insurance. The public insurance offered however will not be able to provide the services of the private insurance because it is funded through tax dollars and borrowings. We can either increase taxes to fund it (which is a contractionary policy that cripples the economy) or borrow which passes the cost off to future generations. Most likely, neither of these options will occur. Instead, the Public insurance program will have to cut services that citizens in this country have become used to. I don't know about you, but I'd rather be able to choose what I want covered and not be subject to the whims of a federal bureaucracy.

Now what the USA should do, is open up and deregulate the private insurance markets and allow the purchase of medical pharmaceuticals and equipment from other nations. This would actually cripple Canada's and most European countries socialized health care systems to the point your economies stagflate or drop into a recession, but it would be fantastic for American citizens as we would no longer be paying for a substantial portion of the rest of the worlds health care costs.



Immigration
I always here people claiming that Mexicans ( 90% of the time ) are coming over and taking all our jobs. The simple solution would be to stop hiring illegals and they wont bother to come over. How is it the Illegals fault that someone willfully hired them rather than an American? It's not. I've got no issue with illegal immigration. One aspect of a free economy is the free flow of labor. I'd prefer we abolish the minimum wage, then employers would be more likely to hire american citizens rather than illegals, but that doesn't appear to be an option in today's environment




NFL > CFL though

see answers in bold

[sawoobley]

Here you go OP. Milton Friedman.

[eddiegoodfellar]

No amount of taxes will pay off the debt we have. I'm not opposed to raising taxes, I am opposed to raising taxes when the government is throwing money away on stupid projects (cash for clunkers) and we are trying to dig out of an economic recession. Not a great time, imo, to start upping taxes when business are already having a hard enough time hiring people in a rough economic climate.

We don't trust large federal government programs, this is an answer for the guns issue and the healthcare issue. Simple as that. We are a country born in revolution and have a strong cultural distrust of government, especially federal government. The more involvement the government has in our lives the less freedom we have and we believe it will be a slipperly slope until they start interfering in other aspects of our lives.

It is impossible for you to really appreciate it because your country did not fight a war for its freedom. Just like I can't appreciate Europeans who like to have a nanny state take care of them from cradle to grave. Europeans think we are idiot savages and we think they are weak bitches unable to take care of themselves and need mommy (nanny state) to take care of them.

There are laws against business hiring illegals so it isn't like we aren't cracking down on them so I'm not sure where this is coming from other than a misunderstanding of what the laws on the books are. Maybe the fines against businesses that employ illegals don't get the kind of publicity as when ICE agents round up a bunch of illegals.

Makes sence

America "they are all pussys"
Europe " they are all *A******es"

LOL

[eddiegoodfellar]

see answers in bold

Oh let me see if I get this.
Education should not be paid by the government ( did you go to public school )
The current gun laws need to be enforced more
Because felons have guns I'm a numbnuts
Guns should be handed out like candy unless you are a felon
You want me to give you a blowjob as thanks for our ( smiling no less ) not sure that will help
Illegal immigration is not a problem
Minimum wage should be abolished so Americans can make less money

Thanks for your reply

[Posthardcore]

I'm not attacking you bro, I just think you're a greedy cold hearted douche. Don't get defensive bro, it's not an insult.

Well, let's leave it at a greedy and cold-hearted person (and forget about the douche ) and it's merely a character trait.

Then why don't you voluntarily hand over all your pieces of green paper - instead of expecting the Government to force everyone else to pay those bills? Instead, you just hide behind personal attacks and insults. Truly pathetic.

Again, deflecting the issue. Why don't I do that? Because I can't, as simple as that, whereas a proper distribution of taxpayers' money focused on priorities, which reflect morals and values of a society, like education and health imho is feasible.

You know you can admit you're being greedy and judgemental and it's all good lol.

Healthcare is an extension of the basic right of life, so unless that's not a right that every individual should have, I don't see why you have a problem with providing healthcare to everyone.

[Igmann]

Do you ever think the debt can be paid off by solely making to government more efficient without raising taxes?

No, the debt was never meant to be paid off.

How can America possible pay for Military, Education, Infrastructure and Regulation without raising Taxes?

- Stop getting involved in trillion dollar resource wars every 5-6 years. Close the 700 bases in 130 countries. No more nation building.
Get the government out of education to begin with, we're not living in the 1800s anymore, people can pay for their own education. Infrastructure can be paid for by the states.

I here people saying that Obama want to take all the guns away and make them illegal. As far as I can tell he simply want to have a screening process and a registry. I always here people say that its everyone rate to have a gun........ Pretty sure convicts dont get guns ( they cant even vote ). Why would you care if you had to go though some screening to get a firearm?

I have never even been arrested in my life. I don't need to be screened, so why should I go through screening? It's just an extra $50 that I have to pay my FFL to get a background check done when I've never done anything in the first place. Secondly, guns are so highly available that criminals will just buy them off the street.

I married an American Nurse so I have a little bit more insight than most on this topic. Universal Healthcare is the standard all over the world and is not some socialist dog and pony show where you get a cold and die. MY wife (remember a nurse) said the USA healthcare system (politics and pricing) is a joke compared to Canada. Let me be clear; The care provided is top notch in the US; but same with Canada. In BC we pay something like $100 for a family for health care ( not including dental ). Why do Americans ( most ) talk about healthcare in Canada ( or anywhere else in the world ) as a joke and below standard; especially when they don't have any idea when they are talking about. Some people have told me how much Canadian health care sucks when they are not in a medical field and have never even been outside the USA.

I don't care about what they do with healthcare in Canada or the rest of the world, that's your domestic policy.

But universal healthcare should not be implemented in the US. The federal government has no authority to implement and it should remain a state issue.

I always here people claiming that Mexicans ( 90% of the time ) are coming over and taking all our jobs. The simple solution would be to stop hiring illegals and they wont bother to come over. How is it the Illegals fault that someone willfully hired them rather than an American?

They're breaking the law by coming here and the employer is breaking the law by giving them a job.

NFL > CFL though

Don't watch sports.

[eddiegoodfellar]

No, the debt was never meant to be paid off.



- Stop getting involved in trillion dollar resource wars every 5-6 years. Close the 700 bases in 130 countries. No more nation building.
Get the government out of education to begin with, we're not living in the 1800s anymore, people can pay for their own education. Infrastructure can be paid for by the states.



I have never even been arrested in my life. I don't need to be screened, so why should I go through screening? It's just an extra $50 that I have to pay my FFL to get a background check done when I've never done anything in the first place. Secondly, guns are so highly available that criminals will just buy them off the street.



I don't care about what they do with healthcare in Canada or the rest of the world, that's your domestic policy.

But universal healthcare should not be implemented in the US. The federal government has no authority to implement and it should remain a state issue.



They're breaking the law by coming here and the employer is breaking the law by giving them a job.



Don't watch sports.

Thanks

[Milo3]

Can anyone name a country as big as America that has Universal Healthcare?

Its cool to have it if you're a little country with large oil reserves...

comparing apples to oranges my friend.

Besides I don't think Americans would care paying a bit more (like Switzerland) if the overall care, health and waiting times were better than any socialist healthcare.

If someone decides to make BAD health choices in life doing it self inflicting like an alcoholic or weighs 400 lbs not even being able to get out of bed why should I have to pay for someone else's bad choices they've made themselves? This is why I'm probably not big on having a Welfare State... it creates a society you don't need. I think govt should have some role in healthcare, but not a total grasp of it.

[DocHol1day]

Healthcare is an extension of the basic right of life, so unless that's not a right that every individual should have, I don't see why you have a problem with providing healthcare to everyone.

lulz no it is NOT. the right to life is a negative right. as in something that cant be taken from you. health care on the other hand has to be forcefully taken from party a to be given to party b.

big fuking difference, but then again youre 20 and dont pay taxes in any meaningful way so of course you dont understand

[DocHol1day]

Can anyone name a country as big as America that has Universal Healthcare?

Its cool to have it if you're a little country with large oil reserves...

comparing apples to oranges my friend.

Besides I don't think Americans would care paying a bit more (like Switzerland) if the overall care, health and waiting times were better than any socialist healthcare.

If someone decides to make BAD health choices in life doing it self inflicting like an alcoholic or weighs 400 lbs not even being able to get out of bed why should I have to pay for someone else's bad choices they've made themselves? This is why I'm probably not big on having a Welfare State... it creates a society you don't need. I think govt should have some role in healthcare, but not a total grasp of it.

soviet union. worked out really well for them too. everyone wants to move there. strong economy. etc.

[Milo3]

soviet union. worked out really well for them too. everyone wants to move there. strong economy. etc.

oh yeah...

even China the vast majority pay health insurance like Americans do.

[Igmann]

Besides I don't think Americans would care paying a bit more (like Switzerland) if the overall care, health and waiting times were better than any socialist healthcare.

Switzerland...

- The average Swiss citizens is nearly 2X as productive as the average American citizen, per the per capita GDP.

- There are no ghettos or freeloaders in Switzerland who live off of welfare their entire lives. They only have 3% unemployment; nearly everyone works.

- People take care of their health better in Switzerland than they do in the US. The average American spends over $7,000/year on healthcare every year. In Switzerland it is half of that.

The list could go on and on...

I'm not condoning UHS in any country but comparing a wealthy western European country to America makes no sense whatsoever. Same with the Scandinavian countries. The standard of living is so much different in these places that you can't possibly model the United States healthcare system on it without making major overhauls in SS, employment, taxes, etc.

You cannot have universal health care in the US for a variety of reasons. #1 reason being that the federal government has no constitutional authority over that issue, therefore it's a state issue.

[Milo3]

Switzerland...

- The average Swiss citizens is nearly 2X as productive as the average American citizen, per the per capita GDP.

- There are no ghettos or freeloaders in Switzerland who live off of welfare their entire lives. They only have 3% unemployment; nearly everyone works.

- People take care of their health better in Switzerland than they do in the US. The average American spends over $7,000/year on healthcare every year. In Switzerland it is half of that.

The list could go on and on...

You cannot have universal health care in the US for a variety of reasons. #1 reason being that the federal government has no constitutional authority over that issue, therefore it's a state issue.

I understand the points you made and agree thats its not a right comparison.

Switzerland does not have universal healthcare though and individually they spend the most on healthcare in Europe and yet they have the best healthcare it has to offer. I think Germany has a similar system to the Swiss too, and they're the boss of Europe.

Universal healthcare cannot work in a big, diverse and complex country like it could in somewhere in Scandinavia.

[frasersteen]

Communist <<< socialist << liberal < centrist > conservative >> libertarianism >>> anarchist

Further left:
Bigger government
More "pussy"
higher emphasis on importance of the group

Further right:
Smaller government
More "selfish"
Higher emphasis on importance of the individual

[Igmann]

I understand the points you made and agree thats its not a right comparison.

Switzerland does not have universal healthcare though and individually they spend the most on healthcare in Europe and yet they have the best healthcare it has to offer. I think Germany has a similar system to the Swiss too, and they're the boss of Europe.

Universal healthcare cannot work in a big, diverse and complex country like it could in somewhere in Scandinavia.

Aware.

[nutsy54]

You know you can admit you're being greedy and judgemental and it's all good lol.

How am I being "greedy" by NOT wanting to take money from one person to pay someone else's bills?

Healthcare is an extension of the basic right of life, so unless that's not a right that every individual should have, I don't see why you have a problem with providing healthcare to everyone.

You're creating fictional "rights". We have a right to free speech - we don't have a right to demand someone else buys us a computer & internet connection to exercise that right.

The "problem with providing healthcare to everyone" is that it doesn't magically fall out of thin air for free. There's a massive cost involved, which only grows larger when pushed under a huge government bureaucracy, then continues to grow when people have no regard for "free" services that can be easily abused to excess.

[tnel00]

Oh let me see if I get this.
Education should not be paid by the government ( did you go to public school )
The current gun laws need to be enforced more
Because felons have guns I'm a numbnuts
Guns should be handed out like candy unless you are a felon
You want me to give you a blowjob as thanks for our ( smiling no less ) not sure that will help
Illegal immigration is not a problem
Minimum wage should be abolished so Americans can make less money

Thanks for your reply

I went to both private and public schools. Do you truly believe that if public schools were done away with, private schools wouldn't take their place?

Yes...if you think that we need more gun laws to prevent criminals from getting guns, you're a numbnuts. And how would enforcing the current laws on the books equate to giving guns out like they're candy?

We should just let your health care system collapse, but we're too stupid to do so. So yes, you should be getting on your knees and blowing americans who subsidize your health care system that still is run more inefficiently than a privatized system.

Illegal immigration is not a problem.

Minimum wage laws do nothing but increase unemployment. Do you even economics?

[Posthardcore]

lulz no it is NOT. the right to life is a negative right. as in something that cant be taken from you. health care on the other hand has to be forcefully taken from party a to be given to party b.

big fuking difference, but then again youre 20 and dont pay taxes in any meaningful way so of course you dont understand

So basic rights are not to be protected? Life is not a tangible thing. If I walk around and a tree falls down on me or I get shot because I live in a sh!tty neighbourhood; if I'm not treated, life is being taken away from me. Or else why would we even have basic rights? Just say we don't have the right to murder instead of saying we have the right to life. Pretty simple to grasp as a concept, I don't see why you're making it seem as if what I said was laughable.

[nutsy54]

So basic rights are not to be protected?

Not when you keep making up fictional "rights" that include forcing others to pay for something you want.