Looked it up, apparently stacking huperzine with alph-gpc can lead to choline overload. Looks like it can stack with pretty much anything else though.
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Thread: P6 Black
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05-03-2013, 04:30 PM #61
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05-04-2013, 06:57 AM #62
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Updated my log here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1066191811
To summarize, took my first dose ever of the product today and was pretty surprised that I had the notable effect of improved alertness and memory recall. Way more promising thus far than Versa-1 which basically didn't do much of anything for me when I ran it.
Seems like the Alpha-GPC is efficaciously dosed in P6 Black and may possibly be better than the citicoline in the Versa-1 product.
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05-04-2013, 03:59 PM #63
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05-04-2013, 05:32 PM #64
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I was recommended (from Cellucor) to try out 3 caps a day to start with then play around with maybe trying 6 caps on workout days (Chef Bob/The Solution doses it 3 caps pre and then 3 caps before bed, I'm assuming that's only on workout days). I'll give it this much, the nootropic effect is strong in P6 Black. Wish I had this stuff (or knew about Alpha-GPC) in college. LoL.
I am still unsure how well the dosing of DAA in this product will be but I have gone through a few cycles of DAA before so I know what to expect. If I get similar results on P6 Black that I get from other times I've ran DAA, then I will know that the dosing is A-OK in P6 Black for DAA (I usually gain some strength, gain some weight, and lean out a little).Completed Logs & Reviews:
Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053
"Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
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05-04-2013, 05:40 PM #65
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05-04-2013, 05:40 PM #66
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05-04-2013, 05:44 PM #67
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You've had a post that I read where you said you took your extra 3 caps at night That's where I heard that protocol from. LuLz.
Interesting, I didn't even realize that DAA could have a nootropic effect. Usually I feel nothing from it and only notice what's missing when I cycle off DAA.Completed Logs & Reviews:
Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053
"Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
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05-04-2013, 05:47 PM #68
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This is also coming from the guy who says that Nootropics are not a stimluant, but then states that he considers them a stimulant. (in his own log)
I have NOT had a post that says i took 3 caps at night because I have never ran p6.
So therefore i dont know where your getting this information from...
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05-04-2013, 05:48 PM #69
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05-04-2013, 05:49 PM #70
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Completed Logs & Reviews:
Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053
"Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
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05-04-2013, 05:51 PM #71
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05-04-2013, 05:51 PM #72
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Very intriguing, I wonder why other products have not gone this route before because it did have a very tangible effect. I mean, doing my cardio and still being able to retain the information from the podcast I was listening to never ever happened before, I've always had to rewind the program because I keep missing bits and pieces of it.
Completed Logs & Reviews:
Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053
"Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
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05-04-2013, 05:55 PM #73
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6-8 hours apart from first dose, i would suggest a dose prior to working out (Say upon waking) 3 caps upon waking and workout, 3 more caps 6-8 hours later
or vice versa if you train later. Watch when taking them at night due to the nootropics. we have some people beta-testing that train later and have had a lot of trouble sleeping.
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05-04-2013, 05:56 PM #74
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05-04-2013, 06:03 PM #75
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Alright Chef Bob, you need to clarify what you posted here:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=153551761
Specifically paragraph 3:
** Since, we can not leave well enough alone, the addition of something I've long enjoyed, ALPHA-GPC, a precursor to Acetyl Choline. One of the most prominent neurotransmitters, and the relative king of the mind muscle connection(MMC). So, while you are stimulating the NMDA channels, with both DAA-Mg-Chelate and D-Serine, you are also getting spikes in Acetyl-choline levels pre workout, and prior to bed (I dose my extra 3 caps an hour before bed). This means more MMC, and potential boosts in GH secretions.
So what the heck is this extra 3 caps you speak of? I am now officially, complete, confused.Completed Logs & Reviews:
Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053
"Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
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05-04-2013, 06:06 PM #76
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That would be the write-up mike posted regarding P6 Black when it was introduced for the beta testers. (hence why its under More Information)
I have not ran P6 black nor do i have any p6 black (as i have already stated multiple times). i gave away my 4 bottles for individuals on bb.com to log. (Bnizzle and JP)
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05-04-2013, 06:08 PM #77
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Completed Logs & Reviews:
Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053
"Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
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05-04-2013, 06:15 PM #78
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05-04-2013, 06:16 PM #79
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05-04-2013, 06:27 PM #80
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Not pointing fingers whatsoever. I've actually never read your posts stating that you have never ran the product. Also, how is one to know that those words were not yours? The link I provided clearly was a thread created by you with the first post containing what I've quoted in your own post with no reference to it being you quoting someone else. Heck, look at post #4 here:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=153447751
Maybe you shouldn't cut and paste text from elsewhere without including a reference to where the text came from? Can you honestly say that when people read a post like that they will not assume that it is you saying it?
For goodness, I've explained best I can why I didn't consider nootropics to be stimulants in the way most people think about stimulants. I've even referenced Giurgea's guidelines for what a nootropic is (and he's the one that coined the term in the first place). The only reason he penned the guidelines was to differentiate nootropics from stimulants like amphetamines. If anything, some stimulants have nootropic effects but nootropics in the classic sense do not have typical stimulant effects (mainly a lack of motor stimulation, very low or no toxicity, no significant side effects, and being neuroprotective). If anything, nootropics are being incorrectly defined these days as stimulants seeing how even methamphetamines and amphetamines are considered nootropics.Completed Logs & Reviews:
Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053
"Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
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05-04-2013, 06:31 PM #81
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05-04-2013, 06:36 PM #82
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I think that the point here is that he expects 100% correct answers from reps..I look to cellucor reps for info on their products, as other reps for their products and I expect them to be knowledgeable on the products they are selling
Please like my bands page!
https://www.********.com/PerspectivesOfficial
Influences such as Periphery, Animals as Leaders, Intervals, ADTR, etc...
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05-04-2013, 06:37 PM #83
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This was AFTER I had made the original post stating that I heard it from you originally. That was AFTER I said that I could be wrong. That was also AFTER you've made the two posts which I have linked to that not a single person could have ever figured out you had cut and pasted from somewhere or someone else. It was also CLEAR in the context of this thread thus far that when I stated:
Not pointing fingers whatsoever. I've actually never read your posts stating that you have never ran the product.
It was to explain WHY I did not know that you have not used the product and thus having read your other posts, was mistaken that what you posted was actually not your own words and you had basically paraphrased or cut and pasted from elsewhere, which again, not a single person would have known that it was not your own words.
I really don't understand why we are muddying up this thread any further? I mean, the confusion was reasonable, you've explained that they were not your words, I've pointed out why those posts caused the confusion, it is what it is man,Completed Logs & Reviews:
Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053
"Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
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05-04-2013, 06:41 PM #84
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I copied and pasted what "Mike" Wrote as a write-up for the product before it was even released for beta-testing as "Information" for the beta-testers that will be running it on here, to give them background regarding the product and what his stance was on the product coming from someone who works at the Warehouse/HQ.
Mike also came in here and gave his stance on the formula, and why it was set-up that way seeing he works at HQ with the product formulators (the main one being Dan the VP of the company) who helps design the formula and the labels for the company.
This is why Mike being a good resource can chime in and help support the cause seeing he deals with this on a daily basis and has a larger knowledge than anyone else in this thread (maybe not cooper who has a large background on supplements and is also a R&D)
The reason i posted that general knowledge in the "Company Promotion" thread as feedback to what Mike and others may have experienced on their run from the product and as stated at the bottom -- logs to the current individuals who are using them on these boards. To show exactly what mike is saying, and how it reflects on real life results/progress from those utilizing the product. TO back up not only the product (in its formula) but what should be expected when ran in the real world.
Sometimes Science wont be 100% Correct (what is expected from the formula), and this is where the real life/world experience when put into play shows its true abilities depending on the individual and how they "Respond" to the given product.
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05-06-2013, 10:57 AM #85
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Solution, I think he confused my comments on using P6 at 3 and 6 caps, and how to dose them. Likely that was the confusion.
Since the product is very new, and all the anecdotal feedback is being, processed with the actual product research that was done.
More and more, things are looking very positive.No Longer with Cellucor....do not contact directly for assistance, please see Official Rep Thread for assistance or contact Cellucor directly at Cellucor.com
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05-06-2013, 12:16 PM #86
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This couldn't be more true. The NMDA receptor is quite an interesting target for supplementation. Any thoughts on NMDA receptor antagonism and preventing tolerance to certain things? I have been digging through some research on this and it looks pretty interesting. Whether or not it is effective to a level that makes a difference in the real world would be interesting to know.
NSCA-CSCS and CPT
Currently Pursuing A Doctor of Physical Therapy Degree
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05-10-2013, 08:28 AM #87
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Just wanted to come in and update folks on P6 Black. Been running it since Saturday. The past few days I've noticed increased appetite (could be the DAA testosterone boosting properties kicking in at this point, kind of due for the course when I usually run DAA, about a week in my appetite does improve, which is still impressive nonetheless because I'm usually dosing DAA at the 3 grams studied dosing, P6 Black most definitely has notably less than that yet it still appears effective nonetheless). Mood elevation has kicked in the past 2 days or so? The mental clarity and alertness is still going like clockwork. The product is a very interesting product thus far, I'm not sure if there's a comparable product on the market thus far in the natty test booster category (only thing coming close but only in terms of their ad-copy, is Versa-1 which I didn't feel much of anything off of, though what people had logged and reported for that product, I'm noticing on P6 Black, true mind muscle connection).
Looking forward to see if the nootropic effects will actually increase through use and compound, also looking forward to see what my end weight is at the end of the cycle.Completed Logs & Reviews:
Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053
"Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
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05-10-2013, 11:19 AM #88
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If I am extrapolating correctly, the magnesium should help to keep everything moderated while the receptor is tuning back down. Without the stimulation of the NMDA/Glycine receptor, both Zinc and Magnesium are modulators when interacting with the receptors, but it seems that the NMDA/Glycine Agnosim overrides these minerals when the receptor is active, and then potentially re-accumulates. Also with a 4 week cycle of P6 Black I am not too sure there would be any tolerance build up, as none has been reported, except by those who are naturally resistant to cholinergics.
I've been meaning to really dig my heels into this, and have some references to back it up, but general product training and basic MOA, are what I have been spending most of my time on at HQ, and training our teams.
The beta testing gave a lot of anecdotal feedback, that confirmed some things, and new research coming out should help to further the understanding of these types of products further.No Longer with Cellucor....do not contact directly for assistance, please see Official Rep Thread for assistance or contact Cellucor directly at Cellucor.com
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05-10-2013, 11:24 AM #89
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I by no means meant NMDA Agonism was bad, although tone is impossible to ascertain on the internet, so I see how it could be taken that way. It is a key player in a whole host of things. Just was mentioning it as an aside, because I was curious if Coop had any further insight into it.
If I remember correctly Agmatine is also a NMDA Antagonist, which we see a lot of these days.NSCA-CSCS and CPT
Currently Pursuing A Doctor of Physical Therapy Degree
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05-10-2013, 11:26 AM #90
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