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  1. #1
    Registered User J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Question for Layne Norton on HIIT and LISS

    In many of your latest youtube videos posted, you have touched quite a bit on HIIT and how it is much better that LISS.

    Among the things that I seem to notice, the one challenge is both muscle loss, and also interference.


    After having looked at a few studies( Unfortunately, I don't have the links for them), it seemed to me that most of what was being studied was basically endurance athletes. Most of the time I think of LISS, I am thinking of basically a brisk walk to walking on a slight incline while I am watching a movie on netflix or something, still able to maintain a convo, HR around 130, and I am getting the picture that the studies were NOT done on that type of cardio, rather something closer to MISS, like going for a jog.


    It seems to me that IN ADDITION to HIIT, it should be fine to do plenty of this kind of calorie burning, as it helps increase metabolic capacity?, and I can eat more food while dieting.



    I am not calling you out, man, just looking for some clarification. This, of course, is open to anyone else that may be able to help me out with this dilemma.
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  2. #2
    Registered User Electricheadd's Avatar
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    He actually answer this exact question and gives research regarding treadmill walking.

    http://www.biolayne.com/contest-prep...-bodybuilding/
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  3. #3
    Registered User J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link^

    While it is a bit odd that the MODALITY of LISS changed the decrement in muscle mass quite a bit(cycling is not particularly different HR for me than walking on an incline on a treadmill(IE 130 BPM or so).


    Also, I find it odd that we would not find a bit of interference with frequent HIIT, just due to the fact that in the bodybuilding population, we are essentially already doing HIIT 5x a week in our regular weight training sessions.

    but hey, im not the scientist.
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  4. #4
    Registered User Electricheadd's Avatar
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    If you are really interested in the details dig up his podcast on "Muscle College Radio". (I grabbed it from itunes) He goes into a 2 hour discussion on this and explains why. The cliff notes were that Biking closely mimics squats in terms of hip flexion where walking and running don't. HIIT vs LISS was a much more scientific conversation but the basic reason was that as you burn calories during LISS the body releases AMPK as a byproduct of ATP use. It turns out that AMPK shuts down the mTOR pathway responsible for protein synthesis. So short intense exercise is much better as it does not ramp up AMPK but you get many of the same benefits.
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  5. #5
    Registered User J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Electricheadd View Post
    If you are really interested in the details dig up his podcast on "Muscle College Radio". (I grabbed it from itunes) He goes into a 2 hour discussion on this and explains why. The cliff notes were that Biking closely mimics squats in terms of hip flexion where walking and running don't. HIIT vs LISS was a much more scientific conversation but the basic reason was that as you burn calories during LISS the body releases AMPK as a byproduct of ATP use. It turns out that AMPK shuts down the mTOR pathway responsible for protein synthesis. So short intense exercise is much better as it does not ramp up AMPK but you get many of the same benefits.
    Nice! I will look it up. So basically it talks abouy not burning muscle. Does it address fat loss in there too?
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  6. #6
    Registered User Electricheadd's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    Nice! I will look it up. So basically it talks abouy not burning muscle. Does it address fat loss in there too?
    Yep, he talks about that too!
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  7. #7
    Registered User Vaylor's Avatar
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    I really hate it when HIIT advocates bring up the whole "compare the physique of a sprinter and long distance runners" argument when praising the superiority of HIIT.

    Sprinters lift weights, long distance runners don't. That is the reason for the difference in their body types.
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    Originally Posted by Vaylor View Post
    I really hate it when HIIT advocates bring up the whole "compare the physique of a sprinter and long distance runners" argument when praising the superiority of HIIT.

    Sprinters lift weights, long distance runners don't. That is the reason for the difference in their body types.
    +1!

    personally, if goal is loosing Fat you can use BOTH to get the best of both worlds!
    - LISS in fasted state,
    - LISS post- weight lifting
    - HIIT post- weight lifting, never exceed 25-30min (total time) and not more than 3x week. (possibly too much SNC load and joint probs)
    - could combine both: 10-15min HIIT+LISS 45min,
    my English is not good enough for u? IDC, it´s not my mother tongue

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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by Vaylor View Post
    I really hate it when HIIT advocates bring up the whole "compare the physique of a sprinter and long distance runners" argument when praising the superiority of HIIT.

    Sprinters lift weights, long distance runners don't. That is the reason for the difference in their body types.
    It's not quite as simple as that, if you were to lift weights then go run 10 miles there is some pretty solid evidence that you will interfere with muscle gain.
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  10. #10
    Registered User macsm01's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vaylor View Post
    I really hate it when HIIT advocates bring up the whole "compare the physique of a sprinter and long distance runners" argument when praising the superiority of HIIT.

    Sprinters lift weights, long distance runners don't. That is the reason for the difference in their body types.
    Genetics. Even people like Carl Lewis and Usain Bolt who have marathon type physiques, could never have been able to compete with world class marathoners.

    Cutting and Hypertrophy don't go well together. Since this is the losing weight section, it's almost a non-issue. If one is a strength / power athlete, they are far better off doing interval training then endurance.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by macsm01 View Post
    Genetics. Even people like Carl Lewis and Usain Bolt who have marathon type physiques, could never have been able to compete with world class marathoners.

    Cutting and Hypertrophy don't go well together. Since this is the losing weight section, it's almost a non-issue. If one is a strength / power athlete, they are far better off doing interval training then endurance.
    FWIW, most if not all of the people who are "fast" are on performance enhancing products, has almost nothing to do with genetics. Believing the best of the best to be without using them is naive. Thats what it takes to be the best of the best.
    marathoners dont lift, they are after ultimate power to weight ratio, there is no reason to lift for them. Those sprinters are insanely strong and squat/deadlift several times a week in addition to sprinting.
    There is always someone less fortunate, with real hunger, with real adversity, who made something of themselves. What is your excuse?
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  12. #12
    OtterMaster csb5731's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Serpentarius View Post
    FWIW, most if not all of the people who are "fast" are on performance enhancing products, has almost nothing to do with genetics.
    I agree they are probably on all kinds of PED's, but if you say that genetics aren't a major factor, then why the hell aren't there a lot of elite white sprinters (or Eskimo/Samoan/Korean/etc.)?
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    Originally Posted by csb5731 View Post
    I agree they are probably on all kinds of PED's, but if you say that genetics aren't a major factor, then why the hell aren't there a lot of elite white sprinters (or Eskimo/Samoan/Korean/etc.)?
    A lot of it is cultural, though it's also entirely likely that there are genetic reasons.
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    Originally Posted by Serpentarius View Post
    FWIW, most if not all of the people who are "fast" are on performance enhancing products, has almost nothing to do with genetics. Believing the best of the best to be without using them is naive. Thats what it takes to be the best of the best.
    marathoners dont lift, they are after ultimate power to weight ratio, there is no reason to lift for them. Those sprinters are insanely strong and squat/deadlift several times a week in addition to sprinting.
    Not to mention sprinting is an anaerobic exercise that requires lower body power. (similar to lifting weights) It makes sense that people who are good at sprinting are also heavily muscled and strong. Marathon runners are doing aerobic endurance exercises it makes sense that they look like cardio bunnies.
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by csb5731 View Post
    I agree they are probably on all kinds of PED's, but if you say that genetics aren't a major factor, then why the hell aren't there a lot of elite white sprinters (or Eskimo/Samoan/Korean/etc.)?
    ah, as far as race, there is an overwhelmingly higher number of people of african origin vs any other country that are far more competitive. I thought it was just about "this guy trains harder" usual crap when someone gets accused of roiding, someone always says "hey man, he just has a better diet and trains harder" lol

    i sprint myself, very seriously, and have been training for a competitive time for a year now. There is no way an average guy like me could handle the high workload capacity some of these guys have in any given week. Even Ben Johnson yearsssss ago admitted to the performance enhancing drugs and how he could squat heavy multiple times a week on top of the sprinting. Sprinting is extremely taxing on the body, hard to recover from even if one had access and the resources to getting massages and ice baths. Without the aids they were taking, eventually the body will break down and something will fail, whether it be a muscle separation, broken bone, torn ligament, etc...most people just arent truly going as fast as they can or as hard as they can though.
    My spine would turn to dust if i tried to do what these guys do.
    There is always someone less fortunate, with real hunger, with real adversity, who made something of themselves. What is your excuse?
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by csb5731 View Post
    I agree they are probably on all kinds of PED's, but if you say that genetics aren't a major factor, then why the hell aren't there a lot of elite white sprinters (or Eskimo/Samoan/Korean/etc.)?
    Genetics are the #1 factor. PEDs turn 10.0 100 meter guys into 9.8x or faster guys. Calvin Smith is probably the last sprinter champion to be completely natural. Carl Lewis took stims at least on one occasion, but like most people I do not believe he took anabolics.

    h t t p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Smith

    And just like everyone else. There are slow black guys as well. No matter what they do or what they take, they will never be able to break 11 seconds in the 100 meter. Genetics.
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    Originally Posted by macsm01 View Post
    Genetics are the #1 factor. PEDs turn 10.0 100 meter guys into 9.8x or faster guys. Calvin Smith is probably the last sprinter champion to be completely natural. Carl Lewis took stims at least on one occasion, but like most people I do not believe he took anabolics.

    h t t p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Smith
    I listened to a podcast with a Viktor Conte interview. (He was the man when it came to studying and delivering PED's) He talked about the exact same thing you mentioned but on an even more micro scale. The difference between first and fifth place is .2 seconds and yeah thats about what PED's deliver. He also talked about how easy it is to get around testing and its basically not possible to test in a way that would be 100% accurate.
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    Originally Posted by Electricheadd View Post
    I listened to a podcast with a Viktor Conte interview. (He was the man when it came to studying and delivering PED's) He talked about the exact same thing you mentioned but on an even more micro scale. The difference between first and fifth place is .2 seconds and yeah thats about what PED's deliver. He also talked about how easy it is to get around testing and its basically not possible to test in a way that would be 100% accurate.
    It's even worse now. The Jamican's are also on some kind of drug treatment that extends the window for maximum power exerted over time. They say it's because of green banana's and yams........lmao. Yeah, like anyone believes that.
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    Originally Posted by macsm01 View Post
    It's even worse now. The Jamican's are also on some kind of drug treatment that extends the window for maximum power exerted over time. They say it's because of green banana's and yams........lmao. Yeah, like anyone believes that.
    Yeah he talked about EPO, it basically doubles your O2 volume allowing you to train like a beast..... IMHO they should just legalize it in pro sports. Probably safer than whats going on today.
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    Originally Posted by Electricheadd View Post
    Yeah he talked about EPO, it basically doubles your O2 volume allowing you to train like a beast..... IMHO they should just legalize it in pro sports. Probably safer than whats going on today.
    It's a different energy pathway then blood doping, anaerobic. Something neuromuscular, perhaps ATP related.
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