how long would it take to look like either of these guys

[mm4038]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...4ej4o1_400.jpg

- used steroids but isn't that large in that picture

or this:
http://www.podarco.com/fitness/image...s/defined1.jpg

- doesn't look that bulky but I would be pretty satisfied, both are about my height

I want an idea on how long it would take, I should mention that I am in the gutter right now:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=152595013

Meals/Macros:
1850-1950 calories, 150/65/180
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=153013121


After being on here for a few weeks, I'm starting to regret not working on any of this years ago. My diet was mostly fast food for 4-5 years until I turned 21. I am now 22 1/4, my time to have a normal life is long over as I have been obese and not part of any social groups at university which is ending in 3 weeks. I want to have the best body possible by 23-24 even if it's too late. I am scared that my small frame is going to hold me back in this "transformation", which is one of the reasons I never bothered until now when I reached a dead end.

[Electricheadd]

IMHO the first guy would take you 5+ years without gear. He is close to maxed out for a natural. The second guy is much more attainable it will still take a few bulk and cut cycles, probably a year or two given you current condition.

[Serpentarius]

the first one, about four to five years with lots and lots of dedication, he IS big.
The second one, about two-two and a half years with lots of dedication.

You are basically starting from ground zero with zero muscle like all of us did. Dont worry about what you did, whats done is done, and all you can do now is work from today and onward. lift and cut, you are overweight, yes you have little muscle mass but if you bulk you will be cutting for like 8 months and lose a lot of strength. If you have a small frame, thats just what god gave you, i have one but put on about 20 pounds of muskle in the last couple of years and started off in the opposite direction, obese.

[Crooktele79]

You are gonna have to add some serious mass to get to where you want to be. This means you will need to think more long term than even 1-2years. If I were in your shoes I would bite the bullet and do a slow bulk for a solid year then cut. Rinse and repeat this until you are happy.

You are gonna have to stop thinking short term. Yes you will gain some fat along with the added muscle mass, but you need to think of the end result 3-5 years down the road. Lift hard and heavy and eat to grow. Cut the fat later...it's the only way to really change your body.

[camdensdaddy]

the first one, about four to five years with lots and lots of dedication, he IS big.
The second one, about two-two and a half years with lots of dedication.

You are basically starting from ground zero with zero muscle like all of us did. Dont worry about what you did, whats done is done, and all you can do now is work from today and onward. lift and cut, you are overweight, yes you have little muscle mass but if you bulk you will be cutting for like 8 months and lose a lot of strength. If you have a small frame, thats just what god gave you, i have one but put on about 20 pounds of muskle in the last couple of years and started off in the opposite direction, obese.

^This.

You could probably get the weight off in like 4-6 months if you cut hard...but putting on the muscle (too look like guy two) I'd suspect will take at least one really long bulk (9+ months) and then you'll have some more fat to cut...if you're lucky.

[mm4038]

lol 5 years, he is lucky he didn't go bald, that lucky ****.

yes I am starting below ground zero (thin with no muscle mass), this is just laughable

that's what I had expected, I'll be 24-25 before I have a body that "stands out". Do you think I can at least have an "above average" body by next summer (June 2014)? Of course, it goes without saying that this year is over.

[camdensdaddy]

lol 5 years, he is lucky he didn't go bald, that lucky ****.

yes I am starting below ground zero (thin with no muscle mass), this is just laughable

that's what I had expected, I'll be 24-25 before I have a body that "stands out". Do you think I can at least have an "above average" body by next summer (June 2014)? Of course, it goes without saying that this year is over.

If you work hard...you will look like a totally different person in a year.

[mm4038]

^This.

You could probably get the weight off in like 4-6 months if you cut hard...but putting on the muscle (too look like guy two) I'd suspect will take at least one really long bulk (9+ months) and then you'll have some more fat to cut...if you're lucky.

Yes, I am expecting to at least be 10% bf (with 130s LBM) in 6 months. As for the rest I would imagine it to take much longer. After looking at all of these guys for weeks, I am becoming acutely aware of how ugly my body is and surprisingly I think most guys out there don't really have much muscle mass either (that's the ones who aren't fat or obese).

[mm4038]

If you work hard...you will look like a totally different person in a year.

Yes, I think much of the benefit to all of this is having a leaner face. My jaw and cheekbones especially started to show when I cut from 40% to 20-25%, in a year, they should improve more to give me enough reason to still live. I am only now starting to realize how important all of this is.

[Crooktele79]

lol 5 years, he is lucky he didn't go bald, that lucky ****.

yes I am starting below ground zero (thin with no muscle mass), this is just laughable

that's what I had expected, I'll be 24-25 before I have a body that "stands out". Do you think I can at least have an "above average" body by next summer (June 2014)? Of course, it goes without saying that this year is over.

Whether you decide to bulk or cut now, either way you can accomplish a hell of a lot in a year and will only look better and better.

[Beasto1337]

Yes, I am expecting to at least be 10% bf (with 130s LBM) in 6 months. As for the rest I would imagine it to take much longer. After looking at all of these guys for weeks, I am becoming acutely aware of how ugly my body is and surprisingly I think most guys out there don't really have much muscle mass either (that's the ones who aren't fat or obese).

you are 5'10 man, @130 you will be really skinny.... you must have a small frame?

[Electricheadd]

lol 5 years, he is lucky he didn't go bald, that lucky ****.

yes I am starting below ground zero (thin with no muscle mass), this is just laughable

that's what I had expected, I'll be 24-25 before I have a body that "stands out". Do you think I can at least have an "above average" body by next summer (June 2014)? Of course, it goes without saying that this year is over.

Meh.... He would still look badass bald lol!! The shortest path to standing out will be to cut first like Serp suggested. It takes a lot if time to add appreciable lbs of muscle to your frame. Cutting fat is much faster.

[mm4038]

you are 5'10 man, @130 you will be really skinny.... you must have a small frame?

6.5 wrist, 14 neck

[mm4038]

Meh.... He would still look badass bald lol!! The shortest path to standing out will be to cut first like Serp suggested. It takes a lot if time to add appreciable lbs of muscle to your frame. Cutting fat is much faster.

yes I am doing just that right now for the next 6 months. I will start bulking and building muscle once I reach 10-12% bf through lifting+cutting at a deficit.

[Crooktele79]

Meh.... He would still look badass bald lol!! The shortest path to standing out will be to cut first like Serp suggested. It takes a lot if time to add appreciable lbs of muscle to your frame. Cutting fat is much faster.

I agree that cutting is the shortest way to achieve noticeable improvement...I myself am in the forever cutting crew lol. With the lack of mass you have though, a long long bulk will have to take place at some point. Sometimes I think it is better coming from obese as opposed to the other end of the spectrum.

[mm4038]

Meh.... He would still look badass bald lol!! The shortest path to standing out will be to cut first like Serp suggested. It takes a lot if time to add appreciable lbs of muscle to your frame. Cutting fat is much faster.

he would probably be ignored by girls like this if he was a bald piece of garbage:

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9...5260352111.jpg

My father is 50 and has lots of long dark hair, but my mother's brother started balding in his late 30s, so that path is not attainable for me. I also have strong hair at this time, but I would rather be skinnyfat with full hair than a bald ripped guy.

[mm4038]

I agree that cutting is the shortest way to achieve noticeable improvement...I myself am in the forever cutting crew lol. With the lack of mass you have though, a long long bulk will have to take place at some point. Sometimes I think it is better coming from obese as opposed to the other end of the spectrum.

if I bulk now, I will face an even bigger problem than I am facing now: I will be at a "risk of losing muscle during cutting", and I'll actually have some muscle to lose.

[Electricheadd]

I agree that cutting is the shortest way to achieve noticeable improvement...I myself am in the forever cutting crew lol. With the lack of mass you have though, a long long bulk will have to take place at some point. Sometimes I think it is better coming from obese as opposed to the other end of the spectrum.

I often wonder this, I am a forever cutter too do we have it easier or the small guys bulking have easier. I sure would like to spend some time bulking lol!!

[Crooktele79]

if I bulk now, I will face an even bigger problem than I am facing now: I will be at a "risk of losing muscle during cutting", and I'll actually have some muscle to lose.

Muscle loss during a cut is overly exaggerated by most...you cut correctly and not some crazy crash diet and there is nothing to worry about. Patience is the real key to all of this and it's lack of patience that causes most people to give up and abandon their dreams.

You are in a tough spot...you can go either way as far as fixing it, but which ever you choose dedication and sacrifice are going to determine your success.

[mm4038]

Another thing, I have 6.5" wrists and 14" neck, does that mean that my genes are beyond repair (as in, I will for sure have a tough time building muscle during my bulk starting 6 months from now)?

I am scared that small frame = hard to put on muscle. I hear you can put on 1-2lbs/month as a beginner (starting at lean with low LBM) in the first year or so.

Can I say for sure I will have trouble putting on muscle now or will I have to wait and see? My father was muscular/tall/lean when he was younger and still has good LBM, but my mother's family is all short/thin with not much muscle and I mostly resemble them physically.

[mm4038]

Muscle loss during a cut is overly exaggerated by most...you cut correctly and not some crazy crash diet and there is nothing to worry about. Patience is the real key to all of this and it's lack of patience that causes most people to give up and abandon their dreams.

You are in a tough spot...you can go either way as far as fixing it, but which ever you choose dedication and sacrifice are going to determine your success.

Well, it was a no-brainer to me even before coming here that I would need to cut all the years of accumulated fast food fat deposits first.

Yes, I'm going to be here for a long time, it is starting to feel like a prison from which I might not ever be released.

[Crooktele79]

I often wonder this, I am a forever cutter too do we have it easier or the small guys bulking have easier. I sure would like to spend some time bulking lol!!

I personally would rather have the extra mass and carry a little extra fat. Never underestimate the power of the Fatcep to make you look good in clothes!

[Serpentarius]

Well, it was a no-brainer to me even before coming here that I would need to cut all the years of accumulated fast food fat deposits first.

Yes, I'm going to be here for a long time, it is starting to feel like a prison from which I might not ever be released.

Well you better be a patient person because if you do this naturally, you are in for quite the surprise at how long it takes to build muscle and drop bodyfat. Im a bit bigger than your average dude on the street, but small as hell for bodybuilding standards, luckily being lean as possible (reasonably possible) makes you look even better. Not dicking around and eating crap all the time (going into big surpluses) will allow you to make fast progress. Cutting is stupid, the less time you have to do it the better.
Have other hobbies and goals because this stuff will drive you crazy with how slow it truly is.

[mm4038]

I personally would rather have the extra mass and carry a little extra fat. Never underestimate the power of the Fatcep to make you look good in clothes!

I think it's the other way around. Lean with a lean face is what you want.

This guy has no fatceps nor is he roided up or bulked that much.

http://www.malemodelscene.net/wp-con...rrett+neff.jpg

[Crooktele79]

Well, it was a no-brainer to me even before coming here that I would need to cut all the years of accumulated fast food fat deposits first.

Yes, I'm going to be here for a long time, it is starting to feel like a prison from which I might not ever be released.

How do you think I felt at 470lbs starting out man? It was everything I could do to drag my fat ass out of bed in the mornings. Just get started and enjoy and embrace the journey. You will always be better today than you were yesterday.

[mm4038]

Well you better be a patient person because if you do this naturally, you are in for quite the surprise at how long it takes to build muscle and drop bodyfat. Im a bit bigger than your average dude on the street, but small as hell for bodybuilding standards, luckily being lean as possible (reasonably possible) makes you look even better. Not dicking around and eating crap all the time (going into big surpluses) will allow you to make fast progress. Cutting is stupid, the less time you have to do it the better.
Have other hobbies and goals because this stuff will drive you crazy with how slow it truly is.

Yeah that's what I have been thinking recently, I need to maintain this consistency during the last 3 weeks for years. My only other task after I finish college in 3 weeks is to find a job and start earning real money. I have zero friends so you would think it would be easy to just focus on that 24/7 along with the bodybuilding, but I encounter daily discouragement when I see things like this and realizing that I might never have them (not even with $):

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...9Ov1dLB-3ToxyQ

[mm4038]

How do you think I felt at 470lbs starting out man? It was everything I could do to drag my fat ass out of bed in the mornings. Just get started and enjoy and embrace the journey. You will always be better today than you were yesterday.

You lost 5+ lb/week for a year, how did you become 400+? I thought I did a great job cutting from 250 to 180 in a year, only to realize that I am still GARBAGE.

You are 33, were you always obese or is it recent?

[Crooktele79]

I think it's the other way around. Lean with a lean face is what you want.

This guy has no fatceps nor is he roided up or bulked that much.

http://www.malemodelscene.net/wp-con...rrett+neff.jpg

That guy has more muscle mass than you think. Male fitness models aren't very realistic goals to set starting out...besides their great genetics and work ethic, the vast majority of them have "help".

[mm4038]

That guy has more muscle mass than you think. Male fitness models aren't very realistic goals to set starting out...besides their great genetics and work ethic, the vast majority of them have "help".

Yes they have good genetics, but he is not a fitness model, he models for high fashion clothing lines and has a 10/10 face, his body is just an example of being at a point where you don't need any more muscle (unless you go the zyzz full roid path so you can be a 8+/10 based mostly on muscle).

[Crooktele79]

You lost 5+ lb/week for a year, how did you become 400+? I thought I did a great job cutting from 250 to 180 in a year, only to realize that I am still GARBAGE.

You are 33, were you always obese or is it recent?

I was always obese...from childhood on. My life was miserable...one day I decided enough was enough. You did a great job on your weightloss! At some point you have to be at peace with yourself and lose the negative attitude. Enjoy life man...if its girls you are worried about, I will let you in on a little secret. Most girls who are worth actually dating are more attracted to a confident positive attitude and good sense of humor than six pack abs and a full head of hair.