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  1. #1
    Registered User jetter2's Avatar
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    Beach in 7 weeks - help me shred!

    26/m

    I lift MWF with 30min cardio after the session w/protein shake post-lift. I also do 30 min of cardio Tue & Thurs. All workouts happen 1st thing in the morning.

    Main goal is cutting down and I want to know if you guys would recommend any supplements.

    Diet is roughly 1000-1200/day, BMR calculator shows I have a BMR of 1900 so I'm trying to maintain a 500cal/day deficit in diet alone.

    I drink Jack & Diet (roughly 60-80cals each) and only have about 3 when I actually go to the bar (4-6x a wk).

    I drink roughly a gallon of water a day, and only soda I drink is Diet Dr. Pepper.

    Is there anything else I can/should be doing? Looking to shed about another 10lbs for the beach! I just am curious what supplements would be helping me.
    Last edited by jetter2; 04-02-2013 at 08:49 AM.
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  2. #2
    Encouraging and positive martoch's Avatar
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    What are your stats now?


    1. Get rid of your misconceptions
    2. Calculate your calories and macros
    3. Eat about 20% less calories than you burn each day while still meeting minimum protein and fat. Get the remainder of cals from carbs.
    4. Buy a kitchen scale and weigh everything that you eat.
    5. Count calories using a site like MyFitnessPal. Here's how to count properly.
    6. Lift heavy weights to preserve muscle mass on a program like Starting Strength.
    Now it's a party!
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  3. #3
    Registered User ImStillTrying's Avatar
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    Are you cutting 500 cal of your BMR and eating 1000-1200 calorie?

    You are supposed to cut that amount of your TDEE not your BMR.

    Read this topic: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=133163973
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  4. #4
    Registered User rexwalls's Avatar
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    If you want optimal results you have to stop drinking everyday.
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    Registered User jetter2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by martoch View Post
    What are your stats now?
    5'8
    187lbs


    I calculated my BMR out (using the formula posted) and am eating ~500 cals below that.


    Originally Posted by ImStillTrying View Post
    Are you cutting 500 cal of your BMR and eating 1000-1200 calorie?

    You are supposed to cut that amount of your TDEE not your BMR.

    I saw this but I guess at the end of the day, isn't this all just subtraction? Can you help me understand why only running a deficit from TDEE instead of BMR is preferred, and while running a deficit on my BMR is running a deficit of my TDEE, just a large one.

    Is 1500cal/day too little or something?


    Originally Posted by rexwalls View Post
    If you want optimal results you have to stop drinking everyday.
    Again, I thought the name of the game was you can have anything you want as long as you are running a deficit.
    Last edited by jetter2; 04-02-2013 at 09:06 AM.
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  6. #6
    Blackmill Music 10/10 th3pwn3r's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rexwalls View Post
    If you want optimal results you have to stop drinking everyday.
    Not exactly. Plenty of people drink and are still in great shape. You don't have to be a diet freak to get or stay in phenomenal shape. Giving absolutely everything you enjoy is no way to live but moderation is a good idea.
    "Everyone thinks they're on their way to single digit body fat as soon as they see a blurry four-pack in the right lighting.Your final body weight at 5-6% will be a lot less than what you think.Talk to me again when you get in contest shape." I'd be willing to say that 95% of people on this forum accomplish nothing in years, don't be one of those people. It's sad,they seem to have the knowledge many don't but can't utilize it.
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  7. #7
    Registered User jetter2's Avatar
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    This is insane, I calculated my TDEE to be around 3k cal a day.

    I calculated 3000cal for my lifting days, and 2700 for my non-lifting-cardio-only days.

    This seems WAY to high.


    Even if I assume the calculation of TDE = 1.55 x BMR (as I only heavy lift 3x a week) it's saying that Daily intake need is 2814, which I'm over 1k/day under.

    Even my fitness Pal recommends 1200cal/day....can you clear up why they recommends
    such a low number (like I am currently doing) compared to this TDEE-Deficit format?
    Last edited by jetter2; 04-02-2013 at 08:03 AM.
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  8. #8
    Registered User azzerr's Avatar
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    Imo 1200 seems a little low. Try eating at around 1800-2000 and see what happens.
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  9. #9
    Registered User ImStillTrying's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by martoch View Post

    5'8
    187lbs


    I calculated my BMR out (using the formula posted) and am eating ~500 cals below that.


    I saw this but I guess at the end of the day, isn't this all just subtraction? Can you help me understand why only running a deficit from TDEE instead of BMR is preferred, and while running a deficit on my BMR is running a deficit of my TDEE, just a large one.

    Is 1500cal/day too little or something?


    Again, I thought the name of the game was you can have anything you want as long as you are running a deficit.
    Because BMR is basically what your body burn/need without doing any kind of activities. Once you start to sleep/workout/move your body will burn more calories and thats your TDEE.

    My TDEE is 2700-2800 and i'm eating 2200 calorie and losing 1 lbs/week.
    If you eat below your BMR, You can lose some weight but it will never last because your body will be theoretically trying to survive and keep all the food you give to it.

    so aim for TDEE - 20%.
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  10. #10
    Registered User ds41's Avatar
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    Hitting the bars 4-6 times a week? Impressive! Let's split it and say 5 times a week...3 drinks when you go out. Something tells me drinking 15 mixed drinks a week will not help you in your quest to get shredded. Maybe cut it down to 2-3 times a week? On top of the fact that drinking nearly every day is doing nothing to help you in your goals...you do not want to be known as the guy that hangs out in the bars almost every single night.
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  11. #11
    Registered User jetter2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ds41 View Post
    Hitting the bars 4-6 times a week? Impressive! Let's split it and say 5 times a week...3 drinks when you go out. Something tells me drinking 15 mixed drinks a week will not help you in your quest to get shredded. Maybe cut it down to 2-3 times a week? On top of the fact that drinking nearly every day is doing nothing to help you in your goals...you do not want to be known as the guy that hangs out in the bars almost every single night.
    Well its my hang out spot, its this little dive bar where all my friends hang out and they come from all walks of life. It's also the bar that has NHL Center Ice so as a displaced Stars fan, I get to watch my team play along with lots of other's.

    You are right on mixed drinks, and they can add up fast but a Jack & Diet is going to run you ~80cal/ea. The alternative is something like vodka and water w/ Mio flavoring.

    It's a sports bar where I'm just one of about 15 regulars, there is always a baseball/hockey/something going on worth watching. I can stop going to the bars but If all you guys math is correct, why is myfitness pal suggesting 1270 cals/day if I want to drop 2lb/wk?

    Last time I got in beach shape I was eating ~1500cal/day and that was 2 years ago..I'm trying as best I can to mimic the success and regiment that I had then but I will try this TDEE-20% method to see how it goes.
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  12. #12
    Lil Chuker karychuk's Avatar
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    1200 is too low. I'm at a 20% deficit at 1560 cal/day and I'm much smaller than you.
    Been averaging a beautiful ~1lb per week for the last 5 weeks and it will keep doing that for the remainder of my cut.

    Any lower and I'd have ZERO energy to hit the iron.

    IMHO, hit your macros, have a smart (not excessive) deficit, lift heavy and it'll all happen.
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  13. #13
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    It appears to me your goals are elsewhere. If your lifestyle is hard to give up look more long term. 7 weeks means every day is crucial. Just my .02
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  14. #14
    Train hard play harder Tommy W.'s Avatar
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    First off your drinking is killing any chance of shedding fat...period. Until you can stop that everything else is useless. At 187 and 5-8 you have a long way to go to be "shredded". 7 weeks will just get you started. To even make a dent you'll need to be at about 1,500 cals of food and no alcohol as you'll need that many cals just to take in minimum protien and get some fats and carbs in. With a 1,000 cal defecit per day that's 2 lbs a week and I highly doubt if you can do that. Even at that you won't see a big difference in 7 weeks. The scale won't even start to move for 2 weeks and then it isn't a linear loss. Just get started regardless, the sooner the better.
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  15. #15
    Registered User Stu.'s Avatar
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    There is a little more to it than the calories that alcohol contains, it's what it turns in to after its consumed that hinders fat loss.

    Although at 200kcal a session/day it probably won't hinder you ALL that much if everything else is spot on.
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  16. #16
    Registered User mchughesy's Avatar
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    just calculate your tdee and eat 500 below that, if your tdee is 3000 check it and check it again, if it is deffinatly 3000 then 2500 is your daily target, hit your macro's and you will lose fat.
    if you get it right you could lose 7lb, probably more on the scales due to water fluctuations but im 5"8 and 180 is not beach body unless you have a decent muscular frame already.
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  17. #17
    Train hard play harder Tommy W.'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mchughesy View Post
    just calculate your tdee and eat 500 below that, if your tdee is 3000 check it and check it again, if it is deffinatly 3000 then 2500 is your daily target, hit your macro's and you will lose fat.
    if you get it right you could lose 7lb, probably more on the scales due to water fluctuations but im 5"8 and 180 is not beach body unless you have a decent muscular frame already.
    2500 cals will be maintenance at best. At 5-8 you'll shoot for about 160 so that puts you right around 1,600 if you want to see things happen in any kind of decent timeframe.
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  18. #18
    Registered User jetter2's Avatar
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    I'm shooting for about 10-15lbs over the next 8 weeks.

    Energy isn't my problem, I work out in the AM, work, then school till 10 so I'm tired enough at the end of the day to get good sleep.

    Regardless where the calories come from, aren't we talking about a straight caloric deficit? Wheather that is in the form of cereal, protein shake, or drinks-I thought the name of the game was deficit?

    I'm burning out a minimum of 300cals a day(and that is on days I do nothing but cardio) 5-6 days a week, plus 1000 cal deficit.

    Can someone elaborate on how between a 7k weekly deficit in the gym 3-5 days a week won't work? I figure 2lb/wk * 8 wks = ~15 lbs?

    Diet is clean, Cereal and shake for breakfast, healthy choice @ my desk for lunch, subway sandwich for dinner(that's all they have at school) with lean meats be mustard.

    When I do drink were talking 300-400cals in te form of Jack and Diet per outing but I'm staying within my +1250 cal/day allotment.

    I mean, wasnt there some researcher that went on a twinkles-only diet for a month and lost weight just by running a caloric deficit? He did nothing but replace where is calories came from.
    Last edited by jetter2; 04-03-2013 at 05:01 AM.
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by jetter2 View Post
    This is insane, I calculated my TDEE to be around 3k cal a day.

    I calculated 3000cal for my lifting days, and 2700 for my non-lifting-cardio-only days.

    This seems WAY to high.


    Even if I assume the calculation of TDE = 1.55 x BMR (as I only heavy lift 3x a week) it's saying that Daily intake need is 2814, which I'm over 1k/day under.

    Even my fitness Pal recommends 1200cal/day....can you clear up why they recommends
    such a low number (like I am currently doing) compared to this TDEE-Deficit format?
    MFP calculates it as a net, and thinks that you are also going to be adding in exercise activity to subtract from the intake. If it knew that you were going to ignore inputting exercise expenditures (like I do) then it would probably suggest some higher calories.
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  20. #20
    Registered User jetter2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orangegoblin View Post
    MFP calculates it as a net, and thinks that you are also going to be adding in exercise activity to subtract from the intake. If it knew that you were going to ignore inputting exercise expenditures (like I do) then it would probably suggest some higher calories.
    I do input exercise expenditures. I just put in my weight, goal(2lb/wk), and it told me 1270/day. An I doing it right?
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  21. #21
    Registered User ImStillTrying's Avatar
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    Why are you complicating things?

    Try to eat 500 calorie below your TDEE for 2-3 weeks while tracing your weight. If you aren't satisfied with the result then re-check your numbers and do them again.
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  22. #22
    Registered User jetter2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ImStillTrying View Post
    Why are you complicating things?

    Try to eat 500 calorie below your TDEE for 2-3 weeks while tracing your weight. If you aren't satisfied with the result then re-check your numbers and do them again.
    ....wat?

    I don't feel that I am. I input my goals and info into MFP and it told me to eat 1270cal/day in order to lose 2 lb a week.

    And that's what I am doing.



    Questions still stand for the rest of the forum.
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    Originally Posted by ImStillTrying View Post
    Why are you complicating things?

    Try to eat 500 calorie below your TDEE for 2-3 weeks while tracing your weight. If you aren't satisfied with the result then re-check your numbers and do them again.
    ^^^THIS!!!

    If you arent happy redo the calculations, use a different app (I use Calorie Counter from Fatsecret.com), Your calories seem low to me too. That could be your problem as well. Do more research. Change something. You have gotten good information here. If you dont like it, fine. But don't fight. Do something.

    MFP is not infallable. Nothing is. Maybe read the stickies and do a manual calculation of TDEE and see if they end up near the same. We can only give advice. You are the only one who can take action.
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    Registered User jetter2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DJBrickman View Post
    ^^^THIS!!!

    If you arent happy redo the calculations, use a different app (I use Calorie Counter from Fatsecret.com), Your calories seem low to me too. That could be your problem as well. Do more research. Change something. You have gotten good information here. If you dont like it, fine. But don't fight. Do something.

    MFP is not infallable. Nothing is. Maybe read the stickies and do a manual calculation of TDEE and see if they end up near the same. We can only give advice. You are the only one who can take action.

    I'm only on week 2 of the diet so nobody is complaining in here lol.

    TDEE says 3011
    BMR says 1911


    Can someone explain to me how If I were to do TDEE-500 cals, vs BMR-700, I would lose more? Seems kinda counter intuitive.

    Even according to the Weight Simulator in the stickies, In order to drop 20lbs in 50 days my intake needs to be ~1700cals and my output needs to average ~ 2600cals.

    This all boils down to simple subtraction which a few of you are arguing against - I'm just looking for the reasons behind their arguments.
    Last edited by jetter2; 04-03-2013 at 07:07 AM.
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    Originally Posted by jetter2 View Post
    I'm only on week 2 of the diet so nobody is complaining in here lol.

    TDEE says 3011
    BMR says 1911


    Can someone explain to me how If I were to do TDEE-500 cals, vs BMR-700, I would lose more? Seems kinda counter intuitive.
    Your BMR is the calories that is consumed by your body if you were in a coma like state - that is, the least amount of calories neccesary to survive daily. You take in less calories than your BMR for a protracted period of time, fat mass is the least of your worries of what you are going to lose.
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    Registered User jetter2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dajoran View Post
    Your BMR is the calories that is consumed by your body if you were in a coma like state - that is, the least amount of calories neccesary to survive daily. You take in less calories than your BMR for a protracted period of time, fat mass is the least of your worries of what you are going to lose.
    Gotcha- could you elaborate on that? If you keep protein intake high and keep lifting heavy, are you worried about the body going catabolic that much?
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    Originally Posted by jetter2 View Post
    Gotcha- could you elaborate on that? If you keep protein intake high and keep lifting heavy, are you worried about the body going catabolic that much?
    Well, I am by no means in any way an expert, nor will I pretend to be.

    But if I were to run a quick look over your weight and factoring in some level of bodyfat in an average zone, you would never be able to maintain a adequate level of protein and fats (within your 1000-1200cal limit) to prevent muscle wastage.

    If you were to factor in that you will up your protein - the calculations in the stickies in here would recommend a protein intake of between 160g - 240g (approx) a day, that would be 640 to 960cals a day.

    Recommended fats is 0.4 to the lean body mass lb, so I'll estimate you are 160lb lbm - we have 64g or 576 calories, this leaves us at 1216 to 1536cals a day.

    This is the amount of calories you should eat before we even factor in carbs vitamins minerals, so even if you chomp down on pure protein shakes and fish oil, you will be losing out on something essential somewhere.

    And this is all before you get up and get out of bed and start expending energy...
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    Registered User jetter2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dajoran View Post
    Well, I am by no means in any way an expert, nor will I pretend to be.

    But if I were to run a quick look over your weight and factoring in some level of bodyfat in an average zone, you would never be able to maintain a adequate level of protein and fats (within your 1000-1200cal limit) to prevent muscle wastage.

    If you were to factor in that you will up your protein - the calculations in the stickies in here would recommend a protein intake of between 160g - 240g (approx) a day, that would be 640 to 960cals a day.

    Recommended fats is 0.4 to the lean body mass lb, so I'll estimate you are 160lb lbm - we have 64g or 576 calories, this leaves us at 1216 to 1536cals a day.

    This is the amount of calories you should eat before we even factor in carbs vitamins minerals, so even if you chomp down on pure protein shakes and fish oil, you will be losing out on something essential somewhere.

    And this is all before you get up and get out of bed and start expending energy...

    I sup with a good multivitamin and the food I am eating is clean. Cereal, Quality Meats, carbs in bread.

    For instance, yesterday I consumed:

    130g of protein, fats were 99g, carbs were 150g. Is this causing damage or something?
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    Originally Posted by jetter2 View Post
    I sup with a good multivitamin and the food I am eating is clean. Cereal, Quality Meats, carbs in bread.

    For instance, yesterday I consumed:

    130g of protein, fats were 99g, carbs were 150g. Is this causing damage or something?
    Nope, that's 2011 calories.
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    BMR is the base line amount of calories you would need for just being a alive, sleeping all day and never moving. A calorie deficit gets you to burn fat, but too much of a deficit actually starves your body. And when you starve your body, you body will turn everything you eat into fat for survival, and it will eat into your muscle even though you eating adequate macros(protein, fat, etc). So eating below BMR will make you fatter and lose muscle after around a week or two, I can ever tell you this from experience. If you ate at BMR you would still lose muscle and get fatter unless you sleep all day and not move, because any kind of movement burns some amount calories; and the BMR has only enough calories for a sleeping state. TDEE, takes into account how much you need to survive(BMR) AND activities you do in your day to day life. If you want to lose weight at a deficit of your TDEE, eating at too much of a deficit will kill muscle and get your fatter. And the point about the alcohol, the other members were pointing out the alcohol calories aren't like regular calories. They're more likely to turn STRAIGHT into fat come pared to calories from other foods.

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