overtraining question.

[fightnak3d]

Ive been lifting for a while and we have all heard the big "don't train this muscle twice in a row or youll overtrain" statement. I have never really cared about overtraining. Sure, I let my muscles rest so they can grow... But I dont worry about overtraining and have never had an issue with overtraining.

Have any of you guys or girls out there actually overtrained yourself?

Im thinking back to when our body stopped "changing" throughout history... and even 200 years ago (to some parts of the world today), people were running, pulling, liftinf and working their asses off everyday for the majority of their life. Youd think the body would be developed enough to resist overtraining... short of extreme amounts.

Idk. Im just getting sick of people trying to tell me that they dont train chest more than once a week because of overtraining. Fricken ridiculous if you ask me. I train chest 3-4 times a week sometimes and have ZERO problems.

[fnares]

Overtraining- a physical, behavioral, and emotional condition that occurs when the volume and intensity of an individual's exercise exceeds their recovery capacity

Yes, I have overtrained in the past.

[fightnak3d]

Overtraining- a physical, behavioral, and emotional condition that occurs when the volume and intensity of an individual's exercise exceeds their recovery capacity

Yes, I have overtrained in the past.

Overtraining... I'm specifically meaning it in a physical sense. What have you done to overtrain then?

[fnares]

Overtraining... I'm specifically meaning it in a physical sense. What have you done to overtrain then?

It was when I first started lifting, I trained every muscle every weekday for 6 sets 10 reps.

Common symptoms are lack of motivation to lift and not being able to sleep at night.

[oldballs]

there is a lot more under eaters out there than overtrainers

[fnares]

there is a lot more under eaters out there than overtrainers

I agree 100%

[fightnak3d]

there is a lot more under eaters out there than overtrainers

That's a really good point.

[EmperorRyker]

Im thinking back to when our body stopped "changing" throughout history... and even 200 years ago (to some parts of the world today), people were running, pulling, liftinf and working their asses off everyday for the majority of their life. Youd think the body would be developed enough to resist overtraining... short of extreme amounts.

Who exactly was doing that, how did they look and how did they feel?

[fightnak3d]

Who exactly was doing that, how did they look and how did they feel?

They looked better and literally probably felt better than 95% of the people now days. I'm imagining people before modern technology helped us cultivate farms and stuff. They didnt have tractors or a grocery store, they hunted or raised animals for meat and grew vegetables for substance. And they did it ALL by hand. Or fished by hand. Or whatever. Asians, europeans, central and north americans, africans, etc.

[EmperorRyker]

They looked better and literally probably felt better than 95% of the people now days.

I don't think there's any evidence of that, and if there is, I'd like to hear it. You can't just speculate like that, and then apply the results of those speculations to stuff like overtraining. If anything, I'd say those farmers or miners, working all day every day were stringy, starved and felt like ****. That wasn't helped by the absence of modern medicine, and I'd also be willing to bet none of them looked like bodybuilders, which I think is what you're shooting for.

[fightnak3d]

I don't think there's any evidence of that, and if there is, I'd like to hear it. You can't just speculate like that, and then apply the results of those speculations to stuff like overtraining. If anything, I'd say those farmers or miners, working all day every day were stringy, starved and felt like ****. That wasn't helped by the absence of modern medicine, and I'd also be willing to bet none of them looked like bodybuilders, which I think is what you're shooting for.

Are you kidding!? There were more bodybuilders back then than there are now. ... kidding. Haha yeah, ill agree with that, especially the last part. Well let's apply it to more modern day on a scale like this. Such as maybe the 1940's. There were much more laborers that were well fed and had modernized medicine (compared to the 1400's at least) that were fit and strong and felt awesome. Maybe not at a bodybuilder status, but I'm willing to bet that a lot of the people in this age could almost resemble a fitness model. Maybe. In either case, the obesity rate wasnt even close to as it is now. My general idea is that the human body is designed to adapt. With a lot of these guys that preach overtraining so they refuse to lift the same muscle region twice in a week, my bet is that it'd be a LOT harder than that to overtrain. Especially with a lot of the guys I see at the gym, they won't lift certain muscke groups very often because of overtraining, yet they lift for an hour at the gym and sit at a desk and onthe couch the majority of the rest of the day.

The bbasic idea of mine is that modern day's idea of "overtraining" is false, based on the fact that I see evidence of people today and throughout recent history that work MUCH harder MUCH more often and don't see any over training effects. People are too afraid of over training to work as hard as they potentially could. I lift each muscle region usually 3-4 times a week on average. Sometimes more. And I have felt no loss of strength or size, as well as no plateaus (within reason...). And this false notion is driven by a lazier society. Most of us on these forums are not in that "lazy" group at all, however.

Idk, just a thought I had tonight after some kid asked me about what I do to lift and "get so strong and big", but refused to take what I said to heart because he accused me of overtraining and said that I am lifting too much. Okay? So obviously he saw I am strong. Obviously he saw I am big. And felt the need to ask me how to achieve me body, then brushed me off with an overtraining remark...? Makes no sense. Haha I'm not necessarily advocating overtraining, im mostly trying to see how other lifters view overtraining. Maybe I AM overtraining and I just have particularly good genetics... if that's the case, I'm not going to change what is working for me but at least I know. You know?

[markdoddridge]

Never experienced it, and i dont beleive in it the way its commonly defined. If you eat and sleep enough, you could work the same muscle group 7 days a week. I have, and i saw decent strength gains. If it does exist, its incredibly rare, and the actual training probably has less to do with it than the way you recover.

People just need an excuse to half-ass it sometimes i think

[StephanieIngram]

I agree fnares

[svartberg]

Overtraining- a physical, behavioral, and emotional condition that occurs when the volume and intensity of an individual's exercise exceeds their recovery capacity

Yes, I have overtrained in the past.

^ This
Dude, overtraining is a totally different thing from what you described.

I'd say what you're referring to is just routine, you can train the same muscle as much as you want tbh.
Remember beginners get better gains with higher frequency.
I guess since muscle grows during recovery, most people find it more time efficient / organized to have higher splits as they progress ey

[TBKuehn]

OP, I think that's an interesting point that "back in the day", folks didn't worry about overtraining. But I think there's a big difference between our modern definition of training, versus the functional fitness they were employing back then. A guy working as a ditch digger or bricklayer was working hard every day, and building muscle and endurance while doing it. But I doubt this guy was ever working to failure. I would imagine that makes a difference.

[JBisGod]

A guy working as a ditch digger or bricklayer was working hard every day, and building muscle and endurance while doing it. But I doubt this guy was ever working to failure. I would imagine that makes a difference.

Plus if that guy was "overtraining", nobody cared and he went to work again anyway. Eventually he died. The end.

The comparison is meaningless. Unless you feel like dying, are totally unmotivated, and have a hard time getting through you next workout you aren't overtraining.

[chazzy1864]

ITT: OP doesn't know what Overtraining is.


Then to defend his stance on his misinterpreted variation of overtraining, he cites the physiques of people from the 1400s and 1940's that he has never seen but is sure existed.

[ZoranM]

Idk. Im just getting sick of people trying to tell me that they dont train chest more than once a week because of overtraining. Fricken ridiculous if you ask me.

That's interesting, because I haven't heard a single person say that in 15 years.

[fightnak3d]

QUOTE=chazzy1864;1048946331]ITT: OP doesn't know what Overtraining is.


Then to defend his stance on his misinterpreted variation of overtraining, he cites the physiques of people from the 1400s and 1940's that he has never seen but is sure existed.[/QUOTE]

Haha it didn't take long for the guys on the pedestals to see this thread did it?

Haha read my debate, first off, before making an assumption about what you think I'm thinking. I clearly stated earlier that I'm not talking about a bodybuilding physique. This has nothing to do with physique really, except that people from the 1940's were in better shape. You say I "have never seen" people from the 1940's? You are aware that there was quite forms of record back in these days... aren't you? It is VERY common knowledge that people are generally in much worse shape than the 1940's or earlier. In fact, as far as overall health, this generation is the only generation not expected to outlive their parents based on amount of years living. So please, tell me again how you could possibly sit from your computer and tell me that, according to you, there's no way we could have knownabout the health or work habits of people Iin the 1940's? I'd really love an explanation of this.

As far as over training....

[fightnak3d]

ITT: OP doesn't know what Overtraining is.


Then to defend his stance on his misinterpreted variation of overtraining, he cites the physiques of people from the 1400s and 1940's that he has never seen but is sure existed.

As far as overtraining....

"Overtraining occurs when you push your body too hard and pass the point that your body is able to recover from. To make gains you must overload the muscles and then allow adequate time for recovery and growth by resting. Overtraining occurs when either the overload is too high, or the rest period aka recovery time is too low."

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/art...s-is-more.html

Very simple stuff. And exactly what I am trying to gain some insight about.

[fightnak3d]

That's interesting, because I haven't heard a single person say that in 15 years.

Say what exactly? They don't want to overtrain? If you haven't, it's because you haven't been in a gym in the last 15 years.

[fightnak3d]

Type in "overtraining" in the main forums as a search and this is the very first thread that comes up.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...t=overtraining

Hopefully the link works correctly. It is some kid that does like 5 exercises of 3 sets each, all aimed at the chest. DB incline, **** like that. He then states that he works chest once every 8 days. His question is if he is overtraining... Then some guy comments and tells him that he is probably overtraining and that you should only go to failure once every month or so.

This is the **** I'm talking about. I'm simply asking for a simple discussion and half of you are getting all pissy about everything under the sun. To ME, this isn't even close to overtraining. Not even in the general realm of overtraining. Yet, obviously people think it is overtraining, and obviously people are worried about overtraining over simple **** like this as well.

I am genuinely interested in if this is considered "overtraining" by most or not. Everybody needs to stop getting all asshurt.

[ZoranM]

I am genuinely interested in if this is considered "overtraining" by most or not. Everybody needs to stop getting all asshurt.

You are using the wrong word. Overtraining is something completely different, and the vast majority will never find themselves in this state.

You are talking about overworking, or training to much or whatever. What is optimal for some, may not be for others. 15 sets for chest every 8 days, not even nearly to much, not even for absolute beginners. However, I find training more often than necessary completely unnecessary if we are not talking fullbody programs. You don't specify what you do, but if you train your chest 4 times a week with a split like program, eg. 20 sets each time, you are wasting your time and probably preventing more optimal results.

[fightnak3d]

You are using the wrong word. Overtraining is something completely different, and the vast majority will never find themselves in this state.

You are talking about overworking, or training to much or whatever. What is optimal for some, may not be for others. 15 sets for chest every 8 days, not even nearly to much, not even for absolute beginners. However, I find training more often than necessary completely unnecessary if we are not talking fullbody programs. You don't specify what you do, but if you train your chest 4 times a week with a split like program, eg. 20 sets each time, you are wasting your time and probably preventing more optimal results.

Finally, a response that pertains to exactly what I've been trying to understand without needing some sort of ****ing proof that people use the word "overtrain". Speaking of... I believe it is exactly what overtraining is. Over training is literally overworking a muscle past the point of recovery, or not letting the muscle recover before working it again. Aside from whatever the correct slight variation of the word I'm looking for is... Basically I am saying that I honestly haven't had any problems growing, building mass or building strength since I started lifting. Maybe losing fat was a challenge for me... Different story though. Obviously my lifting routine changes all the time over the years, depending on what sport I'm in or what my goal is... But I basically have always worked my chest 3-4 times a week (we'll stick with just chest for demonstration purposes). And like I said, no plateaus or less than optimal growth or strength. So I do variations of lifts to target upper chest, lower chest, etc. for about 12-16 sets each workout, which happens 3-4 days a week. Considering I am about 300 pounds, I'm very strong in my chest in both muscular endurance and strength, I have a pretty big chest... It's hard for me to envision my strength or size gains to be any greater than they are now, if I am overtraining (overworking, whatever).
On the contrary, I train legs for maybe 12 sets in a workout usually only once a week (I do various cardio, and I hate legs) yet, my legs are very beefy and fairly strong as well, although I feel they have the potential to be much stronger.
Obviously, I would like to know if what I am doing is overtraining so I can get an edge. Or even if it isn't overtraining but maybe "wasted effort" or something similar.

[chazzy1864]

I believe it is exactly what overtraining is. Over training is literally overworking a muscle past the point of recovery, or not letting the muscle recover before working it again.

You believe wrong. Overtraining is a state of being. You were provided exactly what it was in post #2.

You can bastardize the use all you want, along with the other ignorant fucks out there, but don't get your panties in a bunch when people tell you that you sound like an idiot constantly using a word incorrectly.


Dumbass.

[fightnak3d]

You believe wrong. Overtraining is a state of being. You were provided exactly what it was in post #2.

You can bastardize the use all you want, along with the other ignorant fucks out there, but don't get your panties in a bunch when people tell you that you sound like an idiot constantly using a word incorrectly.


Dumbass.

This is called a quote.

"Overtraining occurs when you push your body too hard and pass the point that your body is able to recover from. To make gains you must overload the muscles and then allow adequate time for recovery and growth by resting. Overtraining occurs when either the overload is too high, or the rest period aka recovery time is too low."

This is called a source.

"http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/overtraining-why-less-is-more.html"

This is the definition of ignorant.

"Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated."

Now here's some class time for you... I did some research, and overtraining involves the muscular fibers. It has nothing to do with whether or not you should pop a midol for your whining. When you call me ignorant by using the word incorrectly, that is false because you are speaking about something entirely different.

The condition is called "overtraining syndrome". Again, I'll cite my source for you to peruse as much as you'd like. I taught you what a source is earlier in the comment. Haha

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/o.../aa062499a.htm

The difference between overtraining and overtraining syndrome is that overtraining involves the physical fibers and is directly biologically and physiologically related to the break down and recovery of your muscles. Overtraining syndrome, however, seems to involve the psychological aspects of working too often and too hard so that your brain and psyche is fatigued to the point of not wanting to work out, washed out, lack of energy, etc.

Speaking of ignorant ****s right?

[chazzy1864]

A muscle and strength e-article is now being cited as a source?


Think how much more exciting Crossfire would've been. James Carville would've demolished the opponents!



+ LOLOLOL @ how you selectively pick your "sources". If your M&S article and About.com article count as sources, then surely Wikipedia does too. The very first result if you Google "Overtraining"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtraining
Overtraining is a physical, behavioral, and emotional condition that occurs when the volume and intensity of an individual's exercise exceeds their recovery capacity. They cease making progress, and can even begin to lose strength and fitness. Overtraining is a common problem in weight training, but it can also be experienced by runners and other athletes.


*Gasp* What's that? No mention of muscular fibers? Is it actually exactly what was presented to you in post #2? Doth my eyes deceive me? Lulabee, baby boy! I can't believe it.


Dumbass.

[fightnak3d]

A muscle and strength e-article is now being cited as a source?


Think how much more exciting Crossfire would've been. James Carville would've demolished the opponents!



+ LOLOLOL @ how you selectively pick your "sources". If your M&S article and About.com article count as sources, then surely Wikipedia does too. The very first result if you Google "Overtraining"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtraining
Overtraining is a physical, behavioral, and emotional condition that occurs when the volume and intensity of an individual's exercise exceeds their recovery capacity. They cease making progress, and can even begin to lose strength and fitness. Overtraining is a common problem in weight training, but it can also be experienced by runners and other athletes.


*Gasp* What's that? No mention of muscular fibers? Is it actually exactly what was presented to you in post #2? Doth my eyes deceive me? Lulabee, baby boy! I can't believe it.


Dumbass.

I would love to see some source other than wikipedia, an open source page. Overtraining is the muscular aspect. Overtraining syndrome, often accompanying overtraining, is the psychological and mental aspect.

By the way, I love that my comment made it into your signature. I'm ****ing honored!

I can't believe I got called baby boy by a big duck though. Un**** yourself

[fightnak3d]

A muscle and strength e-article is now being cited as a source?


Think how much more exciting Crossfire would've been. James Carville would've demolished the opponents!



+ LOLOLOL @ how you selectively pick your "sources". If your M&S article and About.com article count as sources, then surely Wikipedia does too. The very first result if you Google "Overtraining"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtraining
Overtraining is a physical, behavioral, and emotional condition that occurs when the volume and intensity of an individual's exercise exceeds their recovery capacity. They cease making progress, and can even begin to lose strength and fitness. Overtraining is a common problem in weight training, but it can also be experienced by runners and other athletes.


*Gasp* What's that? No mention of muscular fibers? Is it actually exactly what was presented to you in post #2? Doth my eyes deceive me? Lulabee, baby boy! I can't believe it.


Dumbass.

http://www.buildingmuscle.org/2008/0...eight-lifting/

Nothing about your estrogen levels skyrocketing and bitching at everything with two legs. You should get that checked.

[chazzy1864]

I would love to see some source other than wikipedia, an open source page. Overtraining is the muscular aspect. Overtraining syndrome, often accompanying overtraining, is the psychological and mental aspect.

By the way, I love that my comment made it into your signature. I'm ****ing honored!

I can't believe I got called baby boy by a big duck though. Un**** yourself

Idiots gon' idiot.

http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Overtraining.html

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/overt...#axzz2PJ1hzaZN

There’s a clinical definition – a state of chronic fatigue, depression, and underperformance that persists despite rest – and there’s a more general, working definition – a basic imbalance between work and recovery.

http://www.runnersworld.com/running-...u-overtraining

Overtraining doesn't plague only elite athletes or those clocking mega-miles. Because it is often a problem not of too much training, but of too little rest,

(this article even uses overtraining syndrome and overtraining interchangeably.

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/overtrn.htm

The bottom line in sports conditioning and fitness training is stress, not mental stress, but adaptive body stress. Athletes must put their bodies under a certain amount of stress to increase physical capabilities. Where the stress loads are appropriate then the athlete's performance will improve but if the stress loads are inappropriate then a state of over-training/burnout could come about for the athlete.

That was just the majority of links on the first page of google results for "Overtraining".




Dumbass