290x3 Squat Form Check

[onelifenoregret]

I know I have really bad form so just wanted to get some feedback. I have pretty poor hip flexibility and use a pretty narrow stance on my squats.






This is roughly my stance.

[tidnab]

You've got buttwink, aka lower back rounding going on. It's a sign you aren't doing anything to actively keep your midsection tight during the squat. Brace your abs and arch your lower back as you sit back into the squat. Don't relax either your abs or your lower back.

Also, keep your chest up and try to "lead with the chest" coming out of the hole. That will force you to use your hips more.

[onelifenoregret]

You've got buttwink, aka lower back rounding going on. It's a sign you aren't doing anything to actively keep your midsection tight during the squat. Brace your abs and arch your lower back as you sit back into the squat. Don't relax either your abs or your lower back.

Also, keep your chest up and try to "lead with the chest" coming out of the hole. That will force you to use your hips more.

I thought wink was a direct result of hip flexibility issues.

[ironwill2008]

You've got buttwink, aka lower back rounding going on. It's a sign you aren't doing anything to actively keep your midsection tight during the squat. Brace your abs and arch your lower back as you sit back into the squat. Don't relax either your abs or your lower back.

Also, keep your chest up and try to "lead with the chest" coming out of the hole. That will force you to use your hips more.

The only thing I can think of to add to ^^^^ this is to get rid of that stack of slippery plates under your butt. If for some reason you have to actually sit on them, it could be disastrous. Get a sturdy box, or some step-up gizmos, or something else that would actually hold your weight if need be.


Better yet, just learn what proper depth feels like, and don't use anything at all under you.

[onelifenoregret]

I usually use a box but someone had taken it for some crossfit stuff. After this Mesocycle I should have a good feel of the right depth and then I'll just free squat. Will make sure not to use plates again though. Other than my buttwink did the lift look all that bad? Never had someone show me how to squat just kinda started doing it.

[ironwill2008]

Other than my buttwink did the lift look all that bad? Never had someone show me how to squat just kinda started doing it.

You're doing okay. Just keep working on improving your form, and don't sacrifice there in order to add more weight.

[onelifenoregret]

You're doing okay. Just keep working on improving your form, and don't sacrifice there in order to add more weight.

Thanks. I've put like 70+lbs on my squat in the past 6 months but I need to figure out how to increase my hip flexibility and strength so I can work into a more "powerlifter" style squat.

[tidnab]

I thought wink was a direct result of hip flexibility issues.

Seems lots of people think that. But that is not right. Buttwink happens because you squat with a relaxed lower back and core. Period. No amount of flexibility will prevent it from happening at the bottom of your squat if you are trying to squat deep.

[jwagz]

video 1 has no real buttwink to be concerned about. looks like a good heavy squat.

[tidnab]

video 1 has no real buttwink to be concerned about. looks like a good heavy squat.

I think you may right. Now that I look at it on a bigger screen it's easier to see that his back doesn't actually round at the bottom. There is still too much movement in his lower back however because he doesn't use his abs. For proper form what you really need is a straight, rigid back.

[Kentisc]

Seems lots of people think that. But that is not right. Buttwink happens because you squat with a relaxed lower back and core. Period. No amount of flexibility will prevent it from happening at the bottom of your squat if you are trying to squat deep.

Source? Very curious about this. Because I noticed my buttwink is almost gone now that I have been stretching and foam rolling every day.

OP, pretty solid form I'd say. As mentioned above, maybe fix your breathing to keep your core tight and doing mobility work never hurts.

[onelifenoregret]

I think you may right. Now that I look at it on a bigger screen it's easier to see that his back doesn't actually round at the bottom. There is still too much movement in his lower back however because he doesn't use his abs. For proper form what you really need is a straight, rigid back.

Source? Very curious about this. Because I noticed my buttwink is almost gone now that I have been stretching and foam rolling every day.

OP, pretty solid form I'd say. As mentioned above, maybe fix your breathing to keep your core tight and doing mobility work never hurts.

I had a partial tear in my hip flexor when I was in high school (got clipped in football). Stopped doing lower body stuff my junior year and lost a ton of flexibility. I'd also say that I have a pretty weak core, the only core work I get is from deads, squats and OHP.

My lower back started to get a little tight towards the end of my squat workout the other day but that was after 3 sets of 3 reps heavy and 5 sets of 10 50%of 1rm. That's not normal right?

[tidnab]

Source? Very curious about this. Because I noticed my buttwink is almost gone now that I have been stretching and foam rolling every day.

Do I need a source for something that's common sense? Your back relaxes because you are squatting with a relaxed back. You can improve mobility all you want but you will still round your back when you try to go to a maximum depth because you will always be able to squat deeper with a rounded back than a straight one.

On the other hand if you improve your mobility and you notice your buttwink "disappearing" chances are you are not squatting as low as you can.


Edit: here's a source worth reading, probably the best thing Mark Rippetoe has ever written:

The reason that many lifters can't arch their low back and hold it there in a squat or deadlift is because they actually don't know what position their back is in. Their kinesthetic sense for the position of their spine is undeveloped, and they may think it's arched when it's really in flexion.

An awareness of back position is necessary for the control of that position. Until you can identify lumbar extension – what it feels like to have your lower back in a position where the erector muscles are in contraction – you won't be able to assume this position when you want to, or when you have to, like in a squat or at the start of a deadlift.

What is more important for lifting heavy weights is that unless you can produce a voluntary concentric contraction of the lumbar muscles to set your lumbar spine into hard extension, you won't be able to reliably control those muscles isometrically under a load.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...tion_for_power

[tidnab]

My lower back started to get a little tight towards the end of my squat workout the other day but that was after 3 sets of 3 reps heavy and 5 sets of 10 50%of 1rm. That's not normal right?

In your case it is likely because you aren't using your abs, so your back is doing more work than it should. Your back is moving from extension to neutral and then back to extension throughout the squat. Whereas you should be actively tensing your abs to keep the back from going into extension.

[71Avido]

I'll just leave this here:
http://70sbig.com/blog/2010/10/the-butt-wink/

[tidnab]

I'll just leave this here:
http://70sbig.com/blog/2010/10/the-butt-wink/

Terrible article. Author doesn't seem to even know what butt wink even is or have any awareness of how common it is.

[devilsrule61287]

As far as buttwink, I was constantly doing it, even on lighter squats, since my lower back and core were so weak at first. After doing deadlifts the past 2 months, and numerous other lower back and core exercises, I'm much more able to tighten my entire core and keep it sturdy. This almost entirely eliminates the buttwink when the weight isn't too heavy. When it is heavy though, I'm still not fully able to stay rigid and tight the entire time.

[71Avido]

Tidnab I really want to see an article that explains how back rounding boils down to simply not keeping core tightness, one that addresses your point about it not being mobility related.

Doesn't it stand to reason that since your hamstrings attach directly to the backside of your hips that the length of them can influence rotation. See this pic for what I'm trying to explain:

the point at which your lumbar spine reverses its curve is the maximal length of your hamstrings. This is because your hamstrings are being pulled so tight, but you are continuing to lower down into a squat and something else has to move to allow for more depth. That’s when the pelvis rotates posterior and causes your lower back to tuck under.

http://www.crossfitsouthbay.com/2011...the-butt-wink/

Or from Arnolds website

Round Back

When the lower back rounds during the lowest part of the squat it is an indication of tight hips and hamstrings.

http://www.schwarzenegger.com/fitnes...est-squat-tips

I'm not advocating being loosey goosey, I agree 100% that a tight core is paramount to a successful squatting career. I do not agree with your position that it all boils down to concentrating harder.

[tidnab]

Tidnab I really want to see an article that explains how back rounding boils down to simply not keeping core tightness, one that addresses your point about it not being mobility related.

I posted one.

Doesn't it stand to reason that since your hamstrings attach directly to the backside of your hips that the length of them can influence rotation. See this pic for what I'm trying to explain:

http://www.crossfitsouthbay.com/2011...the-butt-wink/

You can't induce the pelvis into rotation if the lower back muscles are actively preventing the rotation. Whereas it will always rotate, no matter how flexible your hamstrings are, when you try to squat to maximum depth with a relaxed lower back. The flexibility of the hamstrings would have very little to do with it anyway, since your hamstrings are almost fully contracted in a full squat position.

I'm not advocating being loosey goosey, I agree 100% that a tight core is paramount to a successful squatting career. I do not agree with your position that it all boils down to concentrating harder.

The proof is in the pudding. Take anyone who buttwinks and get them to hold a contraction in their abs and lower back while squatting. It will fix buttwink immediately. Whereas trying to fix buttwink via mobility work is like a dog chasing its own tail.

[71Avido]

I posted one.

You posted an article about mind muscle connection, not about how to correct back rounding.

[DarrC]

whats buttwink?

[71Avido]

whats buttwink?

Back rounding nearing the bottom of a squat.

[DarrC]

Back rounding nearing the bottom of a squat.

Thanks, I see it now. Tonite when I start squats I will try not to do this. Note to self, keep core tight and straight

[71Avido]

You can't induce the pelvis into rotation if the lower back muscles are actively preventing the rotation. Whereas it will always rotate, no matter how flexible your hamstrings are, when you try to squat to maximum depth with a relaxed lower back.

http://www.exrx.net/Questions/FullSquatHipFlex.html

"Although it is possible for the spine to adapt to less than ideal hip flexibility in healthy individuals, it is generally recommended that a full squat be performed with adequate hip flexibility to avoid the posterior pelvic rotation at the lowest position. See Ankle, knee, and hip flexibility are potentially limiting factors in safely performing the full squat (below parallel)."

[tidnab]

You posted an article about mind muscle connection, not about how to correct back rounding.

It is not just about the MMC, it starts with the basic premise that squatters need to arch their backs in order to prevent rounding.

Again though, the proof is in the pudding. I assume you have a mirror somewhere in your place of residence. Stand facing it sideways and squat down as low as you possibly can. Now do the same while bracing your abs and arching your lower back throughout. Notice a difference?

http://www.exrx.net/Questions/FullSquatHipFlex.html

I don't necessarily disagree with most of that. You won't be able to reach a "full squat" position with good form (no rounding) without good hip mobility. But that is not to say having good mobility will prevent you from rounding. You may not be able to squat all the way down to a full squat while actively arching your back and tensing your abs, but it absolutely will prevent you from rounding.

[tidnab]

Take this lifter for instance. Mobility is not his problem. He can get below parallel without excessive buttwinking after making a simple adjustment. But without that adjustment his mobility makes no difference.





The truth is you will always be able to get deeper in the squat with buttwink than without it, no matter how flexible you are. That means increasing mobility will not magically make you squat with good form because that's not actually addressing what the problem was in the first place.

If you actively keep your lower back and abs tight, it becomes virtually impossible for the back to round. It also may become significantly harder to reach a given depth, but that's where mobility comes into play.

[Singularity7]

I don't necessarily disagree with most of that. You won't be able to reach a "full squat" position with good form (no rounding) without good hip mobility. But that is not to say having good mobility will prevent you from rounding. You may not be able to squat all the way down to a full squat while actively arching your back and tensing your abs, but it absolutely will prevent you from rounding.

So then from what i read the best way to fix the problem is a combination of both flexibility/mobility work and keeping the core tight?

[tidnab]

So then from what i read the best way to fix the problem is a combination of both flexibility/mobility work and keeping the core tight?

If you want to think about it like that, sure. Mobility work to enable the necessary positions, and active stabilization to lock you into those positions.

[Ivarr84]

i've seen much worse on here lol. the rounding of the back looks to be more from poor core strength and not using the hips properly -- which makes sense from op's hip flexor injury from back when. Get the core in line, work on overall hip strength, and if you can't use the box, use a bench or something. I'd hate to see you on the news for going ass over tea cups with damn near 300lbs on your back from sitting on a pile of plates. That's some dumb sh!t, man, seriously.

Boiled down - Drop the weight down a touch, get in the bucket without a pile of plates/box/bench, work on your abs and general core strength, and head up.