The ROB (Rest Only Briefly) approach

[robertthoburn]

If you want to see me scaring the neighbours away from the pool, you can see my pics at:

http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=2621

I'm new to the Internet world. I've been working in the bodybuilding segment of the dietary supplement industry since 1993 --writing, new product R&D, brand management.

You can see my bio at www.1_fast_******** (remove the "_" when you enter the URL). Look under "articles" and "authors" --> "Robert Thoburn".

I've written for most of the bodybuidling mags, but you can read my articles at the above mentioned site, and see many of my posts on Avant Labs' forum.

My two key concepts are the ROB (Rest Only Briefly) approach to training for muscle growth and the GLUCOSE ECONOMY/'UNIFIED THEORY' of DIETING concepts. You can read more about them at Avant Labs' forum. Be prepared for some controversy....

Apprecatively,
Rob

[robertthoburn]

That was 1_fast_400_._com (without the "_")

[robertthoburn]

some of you prefer just having pictures to download instead of the link.

EDIT: To see more photos, please go here:

http://www.robthoburn.com/

Thanks, everyone! I really appreciate your interest.

[robertthoburn]

Now here I am scaring the neighbours away from the pool from the other side...

[BigTraps]

Jeez you are big. Your concept may be controversial, but it is hard to argue with results.

[Hoover]

Please explain about your ROB theory. im interesterds but the links you post are crazy long. you look great btw

[robertthoburn]

The ROB approach is nothing new, though I often explain it in a way that makes it sound different.

In a nutshell, the ROB approach revolves around the concept of 'more work, less time'.

If you ask a high school physics teacher what 'work' is, they'll probably say something like 'moving a force over a distance'.

When you perform a squat or a bench press, you are lifting a weight over a distance (e.g., one full repetition of that exercise). Thus, you are performing work. The more weight you lift over that distance --provided you do it in the same amount of time!!-- the more work you are performing in that unit of time.

Power = work divided by time. Thus, the more work you perform in a given unit of time, the higher your power output. However, I prefer to use the phrase "work rate" in preference to "power output."

The higher the work rate you make your muscles sustain, the more metabolic and electrochemical 'disturbances' they encounter. Calcium (Ca2+), Hydrogen ions (H+; a.k.a. 'acid'), lactate, sodium (Na+) --these and other things accumulate within your muscle fibers as you make them pump iron. As your muscle fibers perform more work/time, these things accumulate progressively.

The ROB approach dictates that in order to build bigger muscles, you MUST make your muscles sustain an uncomfortably high work rate. 'Uncomfortably high' because the muscles encounter so much electrochemical and metabolic disturbance that they basically say "Enough! You win! You're working us so hard that it's worth spending the energy to make ourselves bigger. That way, the next time you ask us to perform this high a work rate, it won't cause so much of a disturbance."

How do you achieve as high a work rate as possible? You do this by lifting a heavy enough weight and Resting Only Briefly (hence "ROB") between sets. When you strike that magical combination of load and rest interval length, and you keep it up for enough sets, your muscles achieve that 'optimal' work rate that makes them grow like crazy.

Of course, next time, you try to make your muscles sustain an even higher work rate by using heavier weights. This way they continue to increase in size.

What's a 'heavy enough' weight? Who short a between-set rest interval is 'Resting Only Briefly'?

I've found that lifting as heavy a weight as you can for 5-8 reps (sometimes as much as 10) and resting 20 seconds between sets, works fantastic for most muscle groups (though not necessarily all --see below).

True, if you lift as much as you can for 5-8 reps and rest 2-3 minutes between sets, you will be able to generate a lot more force (i.e., lift heavier weights). But over the course of many sets, your average work rate will be less because of the slower pace. Your muscles will still grow, but not as quickly as they could.

These are the basic elements of the ROB approach:

(1) For all exercises, lift as heavy a weight as you can for 5-8 reps.
(2) Rest only 20 seconds between sets. For some people, I suggest resting 50-60 seconds for quads (squats, leg presses). Why? Go to this link and scroll down until you see my post about slow-twitch fibers and my communications with Dr. Robert Fitts: http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?act=ST&f=9&t=5025

(3) Do 8-20 sets per muscle group, depending on your goals, level of experience, and frequency of training (how many times you hit each muscle group per week).

(4) Try to hit each muscle group at least 2 times per week.

Go check out my threads on the "ROB approach" and my dieting threads at Avant Labs' forum. Also, you can read about my training approach in Planet Muscle. The latest issue has one of my articles "Heavy and Slow? Not to Grow!".

Let me know how the ROB approach works for you.

And thank you very much for your interest.

Appreciatively,
Rob

Rob Thoburn

[Bio Layne]

nice to see you here rob

[robertthoburn]

Hi, Layne! I was getting too many eggs thrown at my house over there at Avant.

And the toilet paper in the trees....

Free at last.

[Bio Layne]

Originally posted by robertthoburn
Hi, Layne! I was getting too many eggs thrown at my house over there at Avant.

And the toilet paper in the trees....

Free at last.

Oh don't worry... they use stones over here

hope you don't have a glass house

[BigTraps]

Originally posted by robertthoburn
Hi, Layne! I was getting too many eggs thrown at my house over there at Avant.

And the toilet paper in the trees....

Free at last.

No matter what you do on this site, stay away from the teen forum. The numbers in my sig are an ode to teen forum.

I'd be interested to see the reactions you'd get from posting your pictures in there - they really went after Moslem who has the best physique of the teens (even Derek would have trouble ousting him in comp.).

[blinkboy99]

ROB i got a quick question about ur style...excuse me if i missed this in the read...since u reach failure at 5-8 reps rest 20 seconds, do u lower the wiehgt so u can get 5-8 reps 20 seconds later? like bench 225 for 6, 20 seconds 185 for 6? or do u keep the same wieght, i would figure that if u kept the same weight u reps would go down a lot 20 seocds later if ur failing at 5 reps for example, what u mind post a example routine(with the weights u use and reps)

thanks a lot

Nick

[Bio Layne]

Originally posted by blinkboy99
ROB i got a quick question about ur style...excuse me if i missed this in the read...since u reach failure at 5-8 reps rest 20 seconds, do u lower the wiehgt so u can get 5-8 reps 20 seconds later? like bench 225 for 6, 20 seconds 185 for 6? or do u keep the same wieght, i would figure that if u kept the same weight u reps would go down a lot 20 seocds later if ur failing at 5 reps for example, what u mind post a example routine(with the weights u use and reps)

thanks a lot

Nick

rob answered this over at avant so i'll sum it up. Rob says he maintains his power out put very well (probably from training this way for so long) so he only decreases weight by a minor amount... but obviously for someone not trained in this style to stay within the required rep range you will need to reduce weight as your sets progress

[robertthoburn]

I am used to training this way, but, really, you never get used to it.

If I start out with, e.g., 225 in the bench for 8 reps. 20 seconds later I will only be able to do 185 for 8 (I'm just guessing here). In other words, with each set, my force-generating capacity falls, as I am not resting long enough to let it recover.

However, over the course of many sets, my work rate is still very high because I am training to (or close to) failure and resting so very little between sets. That high work rate, to repeat, it critical to stimulating muscle growth on an ongoing basis.

I see people lift much heavier weights than me but they rest quite a long time between sets. They often do fewer sets, moreover. Overall, their work rate is low compared to mine. Their muscles are like "we can recover our force-generating capacity quite well at this work rate, so why grow?"

Do you see what I'm saying?

Hope this helps. Please do give it a fair try. If it doesn't work for you, discard it.

Rob

[BigTraps]

Originally posted by robertthoburn
I am used to training this way, but, really, you never get used to it.

If I start out with, e.g., 225 in the bench for 8 reps. 20 seconds later I will only be able to do 185 for 8 (I'm just guessing here). In other words, with each set, my force-generating capacity falls, as I am not resting long enough to let it recover.

However, over the course of many sets, my work rate is still very high because I am training to (or close to) failure and resting so very little between sets. That high work rate, to repeat, it critical to stimulating muscle growth on an ongoing basis.

I see people lift much heavier weights than me but they rest quite a long time between sets. They often do fewer sets, moreover. Overall, their work rate is low compared to mine. Their muscles are like "we can recover our force-generating capacity quite well at this work rate, so why grow?"

Do you see what I'm saying?

Hope this helps. Please do give it a fair try. If it doesn't work for you, discard it.

Rob

That actually makes a lot of sense.

Maybe I'll give something like that a try when I hit a major wall in my training.

[Gareth]

Rob, so let's take military presses for example.

Currently, I do 4 x 6 - 110lbs, 1 min intervals.

Since I know myself well enuff with ur method it'll work as follows.

1 x 8 - 110lbs
1 x 8 - 100lbs
1 x 8 - 90lbs
1 x 8 - 80lbs

All with 20sec rest inbetween.

Am I doing it right then?

Also how long do u recommend we rest between each exercise?

[u5711]

Originally posted by robertthoburn
I see people lift much heavier weights than me but they rest quite a long time between sets. They often do fewer sets, moreover. Overall, their work rate is low compared to mine. Their muscles are like "we can recover our force-generating capacity quite well at this work rate, so why grow?"

Assuming they arent waiting a rediculous amount of time, wouldn't that person be able to overcome that by increasing the amount of weight they used (a la HIT) and being sure to reach failure within 8 reps? I kinda see it like this:

short rest, low weight == long(er) rest, heavy weight

I just think this balances out and works out to be volume training vs high intensity training. Everyones different so these both have their merits.

[u5711]

BTW, you got some nice size going there!

[Flee Priest]

Wow...whatever your methods, it looks like they're working!! Bastard!

[Bio Layne]

Originally posted by u5711
Assuming they arent waiting a rediculous amount of time, wouldn't that person be able to overcome that by increasing the amount of weight they used (a la HIT) and being sure to reach failure within 8 reps? I kinda see it like this:

short rest, low weight == long(er) rest, heavy weight

I just think this balances out and works out to be volume training vs high intensity training. Everyones different so these both have their merits.

your missing his point

[robertthoburn]

Remember that the basic tenet (principle) of the ROB approach is that you need to make your muscles SUSTAIN a high overall work rate.

If you lift as heavy as you can for, e.g., 5-8 reps, and then rest 2-3 minutes between sets, you will find that you have performed a fairly high amount of work for the duration of that set (say, 10-15 seconds).

However, when you average that quantity of work over the duration of your set PLUS the 2-3 minute rest interval, the OVERALL work rate will be much less.

It's the WORK RATE and the length of time you make your muscles SUSTAIN that overall work rate that is so critical to stimulating muscle growth.

That's why it's important to do at least 3 or 4 sets per exercise. When you change exercises for a given muscle group, you inevitably have to rest longer (1, maybe 2, minutes). Otherwise you'll be knocking people over, leaving weights all over the place, and otherwise pissing off the rest of the free world.

If you only do 1-2 sets per exercise for a given muscle group, you will hinder your ability to sustain a high work rate. That's why I do at least 5 ---sometimes as many as 8 or 9-- sets of a given exercise before moving to the next.

Now, some people (e.g., those at Avant Labs' forum) have compared the ROB approach to 'circuit training'. Well, with circuit training you usually do one set of an exercise before moving on, often to an exercise for a DIFFERENT muscle group. No wonder circuit training doesn't build that muscle muscle.

Then there are the people who say the ROB approach is 'endurance training'. Hmm. Well it sure can develop your 'endurance', i.e, your ability to sustain this type of exercise --though you never do get 'used to it'.

However, in contrast to endurance exercise, we are asking our muscles to generate high-intensity contractions by lifting as much as we can for 5-8 reps at that particular moment in time. Thus, the amount of work is far higher than would be the case with the low-intensity contractions characteristic of endurance exercise. Even though we are resting only 20 seconds (or, for quads, sometimes 50-60, depending on your muscle-building 'propensities' in this muscle group), the overall work rate is much higher than for endurance training.

Hope this helps.

Do give it a try. Be sure not to skimp on sets. Again, it's not just the high work rate, but the demand on your muscles to SUSTAIN that work rate that is critical. 'Sustain' means 'over and extended period of time', meaning lots of sets for a given muscle group.

Give it a try and tell us your progress.

Best,
Rob

Rob Thoburn

[VIPER650R]

hey rob very interesting approach to lifting , the logic makes alot of sense but that 20 secs of rest between sets makes a workout not for the weak!! Ur whole workout is almost like one giant superset . I would def like to try it sometime for like a month , if u could post a link wit the full details about this workout so i kan make it a favorite link i'd appreciate it!!

[robertthoburn]

Here are some links to check out:

http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?act=ST&f=9&t=5025

http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=4948

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=109

(on the last link, scroll down to Robert Thoburn)

These links detail some of my training and eating habits. Really, the best explanation of my training is on this thread right here. You can also read about it in the latest issue of Planet Muscle. I wrote an article (much edited) called "Heavy and Slow? Not to grow!"

Hope this helps.

Rob

[pounder]

It's an interesting approach. The next time I change up my routine I'll give it a shot.

People need to keep an open mind and try different things - everyone's body is different and figuring out what makes it grow best is a personal challenge. Too many people out there do what their huge bro does, or what they read somewhere, instead of trying different training methods.

By the way you're looking huge, robert. Nice work.

[Gethuge]

Actually I've been doing something similar for quite some time. Instead of timing my between set rests though I've been timing my entire time for completing an exercise. I then multiply my total volume of work and divide by the time it took to complete. Pete Sisco actually used a similar approach in "Power Factor Training." It's a great way to keep track of your intensity. And in addition you can, over time, find out more about your optimum volume, rest intervals and rep schemes.

[robertthoburn]

...with 'Power Factor' training.

I wrote an article on the Power Factor training concept a long time ago in Muscle Media 2000. I think it was the Oct 1994 issue or something around then. The title of the article was "Partials Revisited".

More recently, I addressed this issue in the latest issue of Planet Muscle. The article is entitled "Heavy and Slow? Not to grow!".

If you can't get that article, let me know, and I'll send you a copy of the original, unedited version in MS Word.

The fallacy of the Power Factor training method is that it fails to distinguish between internal power and external power.

As I explained above, power = work divided by time. External power refers to the amount of weight you can lift over a given distance per unit of time. It does not say anything about the metabolic demand (expenditure of ATP) that the recruited muscle fibers experience in lifting that weight.

For any given resistance training movement, you can lift more weight (i.e., a greater external load) where the mechanical advantage is greater.

Example: The top few inches of the squat. Here you can lift more weight than the bottom few inchces of the squat, because the mechanical advantage is greater. But that means that your quadriceps don't have to work as hard. That is, they perform less internal work, even though you can perform more external work in this range of motion.

In order to make your muscles grow, you have to make them SUTAIN a high INTERNAL work rate --uncomfortably high, as I say. If you only perform your resistance training movements in the strongest range of motion, you will be basically giving them a 'vacation' compared to how hard they'd have to work if you exercised them through the entire range of motion, i.e., including the point of poorest mechanical advantage (where they have to work much harder to lift a given external load).

In short, training in your strongest range of motion is incredibly inefficient for building muscle. You may impress people with little understanding of basic biomechanics, but it won't be because your muscles are getting bigger and bigger with each passing workout.

Respectfully,
Rob

Rob Thoburn

[Pro]

Would you recommend this approach for strength training or is it just for hypertrophy?

[Fletch]

Originally posted by robertthoburn
some of you prefer just having pictures to download instead of the link.

Holy hell I'm having deja vu from the Avant Forum. Dammit Rob would you get that back outta my face. You're gonna scare everyone out of the thread!

I've been mixing in the ROB approach to training when I'm in a pinch for time and need to get through an entire workout. Lemme tell ya, my shoulders were en fuego for about 2 hours after i completed the workout. I've never been so happy.

- Fletch

[LethalGunz34]

Originally posted by BigTraps
No matter what you do on this site, stay away from the teen forum. The numbers in my sig are an ode to teen forum.

I'd be interested to see the reactions you'd get from posting your pictures in there - they really went after Moslem who has the best physique of the teens (even Derek would have trouble ousting him in comp.).

who's Moslem?

[robertthoburn]

Originally posted by Pro
Would you recommend this approach for strength training or is it just for hypertrophy?

The ROB approach is first and foremost a method of resistance training method for the purpose of stimulating muscle growth. It will increase strength, yes, but not as effectively as other approaches.

That being said, should you decide to 'dabble' in some more strength-oriented workouts in between your ROB workouts, you will notice that your strength picks up very quickly.

Also, after just a few ROB approach workouts, you will find that your aerobic capacity will be noticeably greater. If you go for a run down the street, you'll feel a lot more 'umph' in your stride.

Rob

Rob Thoburn