Should Automatic Weapons be Readily Available to Citizens?

[RainingBlood]

I'm fine with the current laws on fully auto weapons. I don't think anyone would really want one unless they're a hardcore collector. Plus, they eat up ammo and most ranges don't allow any automatic weapons. Have to go on dat dere private land.

[BrocepCurls]

You had "very low gun shootings" before you were disarmed. Meanwhile, how's your overall violent crime doing?

Ever taken a look at what constitutes a violent crime in the UK vs what constitutes a violent crime in the US?

[ImpulsePainter]

Doable? Yes it . Most weapons systems will require significant modification and or machining of the reciever, for one thing.

03/SOT, speaking from experience.

?

AR's require a lightning link, and AK's require a 3rd pin in the receiver.


@OP I don't see the point in 'banning' them; someone who's hell bent on doing evil things is going to do them regardless. There's a will; there's a way. That said, there's no way the ban would get lifted. At the risk of sounding like the liberal I am; I'm fine with the way it is.

[desertw0lf]

Ever taken a look at what constitutes a violent crime in the UK vs what constitutes a violent crime in the US?

Brb, can get charged for defending yourself with force in the UK

[nutsy54]

Ever taken a look at what constitutes a violent crime in the UK vs what constitutes a violent crime in the US?

That's not what I asked...

[BrocepCurls]

That's not what I asked...

Our violent crime is just fine, probably lower than yours. The way it is defined causes differences in statistics:

UK Home Office:
"The Home Office defines violent crime as robbery, sexual offences, and a group of Violence Against the Person offences ranging from assault without injury, through wounding, to homicide."

FBI:
"In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault."

So its impossible to compare the two as the definition is totally different.

However your murder rate is 4 times higher than ours, which is indisputable

[betterthangoode]

yes, after a more thorough background check and a different permit like most states require.

[yelojackt]

it does in Switzerland

[Youppi]

There are many countries in which owning guns is highly illegal yet have incredibly high ratios of gun violence

how many in the first world?

Australia has not had a single mass shooting since it passed gun regulations. Their government nor any of the others in the first world have tried to destroy or enslave them either.

[desertw0lf]

?

AR's require a lightning link, and AK's require a 3rd pin in the receiver.


@OP I don't see the point in 'banning' them; someone who's hell bent on doing evil things is going to do them regardless. There's a will; there's a way. That said, there's no way the ban would get lifted.

Lightning links also require a modified bcg in some cases, and they break. Theoretically they-are- very simple to make though.

AK third hole placement also possible, but not a two second mod and requires more than just three hole and pin.

I totally agree with you on where there's a will there's a way but 99.9% of folks who parrot that they heard from their sisters cousins brother how to modify for fa have neither the skill or know how to actually do it correctly

[Aegraen]

Our violent crime is just fine, probably lower than yours. The way it is defined causes differences in statistics:

UK Home Office:
"The Home Office defines violent crime as robbery, sexual offences, and a group of Violence Against the Person offences ranging from assault without injury, through wounding, to homicide."

FBI:
"In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault."

So its impossible to compare the two as the definition is totally different.

However your murder rate is 4 times higher than ours, which is indisputable

Try having a border with Mexico and South America, as well as being close to the Bahamas and Cuba. If we legalized all drugs the murder rates would plummet tremendously.

[yelojackt]

Our violent crime is just fine, probably lower than yours. The way it is defined causes differences in statistics:

UK Home Office:
"The Home Office defines violent crime as robbery, sexual offences, and a group of Violence Against the Person offences ranging from assault without injury, through wounding, to homicide."

FBI:
"In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault."

So its impossible to compare the two as the definition is totally different.

However your murder rate is 4 times higher than ours, which is indisputable

mainly gang violence. normal suburbia is as safe as the UK equivilent. in fact, many places with the most legal access to guns has the lowest in the US.


give me ONE good reason a sane, law abiding citizen should NOT be able to own a gun. the burden of proof is on you

[desertw0lf]

mainly gang violence. normal suburbia is as safe as the UK equivilent. in fact, many places with the most legal access to guns has the lowest in the US.


give me ONE good reason a sane, law abiding citizen should NOT be able to own a gun. the burden of proof is on you

The massive number of fully automatic rifles per capita in the hands of citizens in Switzerland negates most of the silly guns equal gun crimes go up arguments

[CellTechFiend]

i thought we were done with these questions on the misc...

[zakatak333]

Yes. A psychopath can just as easily murder unarmed children with a semi-auto as an automatic gun. The only reason they are banned is because ignorant anti-gun people are afraid of them.

^^This, a psychopath can get 5+ kills with a knife...


only extra ability with full autos is shooting up houses/buildings

[BrocepCurls]

mainly gang violence. normal suburbia is as safe as the UK equivilent. in fact, many places with the most legal access to guns has the lowest in the US.


give me ONE good reason a sane, law abiding citizen should NOT be able to own a gun. the burden of proof is on you

im sure when the 2nd amendment was written, the intention was that only law abiding citizens could own firearms. Is that the case? No, you now have hundreds of millions of weapons many of which are in criminal hands, therefore it doesn't work in reality

^^This, a psychopath can get 5+ kills with a knife...


only extra ability with full autos is shooting up houses/buildings

guy in china stabbed 22 kids and no one died. guy in sandy hook shot 26 people and they all died

[nutsy54]

Our violent crime is just fine, probably lower than yours. The way it is defined causes differences in statistics:

Once again, I said nothing about comparing to the US. I asked about your violent crime rate, especially in relation to the population being disarmed in 1997.

As defined by your government, "total violence against the person":
1980 - 97,246; Homicide - 620
1990 - 184,665; Homicide - 669
2000 - 600,922; Homicide - 850 - That's an awesome result after being disarmed, huh?
2010 - 821,939; Homicide - 638 - 4.5 times the violent crime compared to 20 years earlier, nearly as many homicides, with only an 8.5% population increase

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/science...tics-internet/

[nutsy54]

guy in china stabbed 22 kids and no one died. guy in sandy hook shot 26 people and they all died

While many other stabbings have led to death, and many shootings don't.

Were you actually trying to make a point with that cherry-picked post?

[Ace Thedics]

We're disarmed here in the UK, we have no school shootings, very low gun shootings in general

Answer that one americans?

Your stabbing rate is through the roof.

Nutjobs don't need guns to kill people.

[nutsy54]

Australia has not had a single mass shooting since it passed gun regulations.

How many did it have before...?

Meanwhile, an Australian mass murder still occurred in 2000 - with 15 dead due to arson.

[BrocepCurls]

Once again, I said nothing about comparing to the US. I asked about your violent crime rate, especially in relation to the population being disarmed in 1997.

As defined by your government, "total violence against the person":
1980 - 97,246; Homicide - 620
1990 - 184,665; Homicide - 669
2000 - 600,922; Homicide - 850 - That's an awesome result after being disarmed, huh?
2010 - 368,655; Homicide - 619 - Double the violent crime compared to 20 years earlier, nearly as many homicides, with only an 8.5% population increase

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/science...tics-internet/

Fukking lol if you think that's because of the handgun ban. Try massive amounts of immigration and a complete change in the demographics of major cities. There was already a doubling of violent crime from 1980 to 1990, even though guns were only taken away in 96 or whatever it was. Why do you think Japan has such ridiculously low levels of crime/murder?

While many other stabbings have led to death, and many shootings don't.

Were you actually trying to make a point with that cherry-picked post?

Contradicted yourself hugely - call the UK violent, talk about our violent crime rate - most violent crime here is committed with knives only, and guess what our murder rate is much smaller than yours. So clearly guns are the major factor in increasing death as opposed to injury

[Youppi]

How many did it have before...?

Meanwhile, an Australian mass murder still occurred in 2000 - with 15 dead due to arson.

something in the teens. would've been more if they didn't say enough was enough.

[stevematic]

how many in the first world?

Australia has not had a single mass shooting since it passed gun regulations. Their government nor any of the others in the first world have tried to destroy or enslave them either.

um we had an attempted mass shooting after the gun regulations

new zealand have semi-autos and haven't had a mass shooting since 1997.

[nutsy54]

Fukking lol if you think that's because of the handgun ban. Try massive amounts of immigration and a complete change in the demographics of major cities.
...
Why do you think Japan has such ridiculously low levels of crime/murder?

Because they have a completely different society.

BRB - The only difference between two countries is their gun laws, and nothing else with civilizations that have evolved over thousands of years...

Funny that you simultaneously want to pretend gun laws are the sole distinction between two separate countries, but when those gun laws are linked to significant violent crime increases within your own country, suddenly a whole bunch of other factors are to blame...

PS: My original post was incorrect, I looked at the wrong column in the chart. Your country actually saw violent crime rise 4.5 times during the 20 years centered on your gun ban.

[Jeffreezy]

Why not? They should be available, albeit more regulated than Semi-Autos.

[iceypain]

full auto assault rifles aren't that useful anyway

[BrocepCurls]

Because they have a completely different society.

BRB - The only difference between two countries is their gun laws, and nothing else with civilizations that have evolved over thousands of years...

Funny that you simultaneously want to pretend gun laws are the sole distinction between two separate countries, but when those gun laws are linked to significant violent crime increases within your own country, suddenly a whole bunch of other factors are to blame...

PS: My original post was incorrect, I looked at the wrong column in the chart. Your country actually saw violent crime rise 4.5 times during the 20 years centered on your gun ban.

Japan has very few immigrants, everyone is ethnically from there. One of the main reasons for their low crime. I brought it up to illustrate one of the major factors of why our crime rate has gone up, due to large amounts of immigration and multiculturalism and all that. Definitely WASNT the banning of handguns, since there was a doubling before that anyway. USA and America are pretty damn similar in terms of culture and demographic, the only difference between our low murder rate and your much higher rate is the gun deaths, surprise surprise, because you have so many guns. And now you want full autos as well? good luck gooby

[Jeffreezy]

Japan has very few immigrants, everyone is ethnically from there. One of the main reasons for their low crime. I brought it up to illustrate one of the major factors of why our crime rate has gone up, due to large amounts of immigration and multiculturalism and all that. Definitely WASNT the banning of handguns, since there was a doubling before that anyway. USA and America are pretty damn similar in terms of culture and demographic, the only difference between our low murder rate and your much higher rate is the gun deaths, surprise surprise, because you have so many guns. And now you want full autos as well? good luck gooby

Remove gun-deaths from our overall homicide rate and it's still significantly higher than the UKs...


Aside from shared language and history, our culture is very different from that of the UKs.

[Aegraen]

Japan has very few immigrants, everyone is ethnically from there. One of the main reasons for their low crime. I brought it up to illustrate one of the major factors of why our crime rate has gone up, due to large amounts of immigration and multiculturalism and all that. Definitely WASNT the banning of handguns, since there was a doubling before that anyway. USA and America are pretty damn similar in terms of culture and demographic, the only difference between our low murder rate and your much higher rate is the gun deaths, surprise surprise, because you have so many guns. And now you want full autos as well? good luck gooby

You know motor vehicle fatalities dwarf gun related deaths, right? If your argument to ban guns is that they produce vast quantities of death, then why are you so selective in this criteria? Obviously you have a very horrible bias and it has to do with the perception you have of Government having less power than individuals (oh the horror). I assume you also support many other areas of Government where their power vastly trumps individuals rights. Stop acting like you're making a stand based on '#'s of deaths'.

[BrocepCurls]

Remove gun-deaths from our overall homicide rate and it's still higher than the UKs...

Rough statistics:

Number of Murders, United States, 2010: 12,996

Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2010: 8,775


Number of Murders, Britain, 2011: 690 (Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3450 US murders)

So about 4000 non firearm deaths in the US, around 3500 in the UK. Its not THAT much higher. Guns account for the big difference