Show noobs some love

[Dano85]

Here's my question though (continuing with newbie A and B). Assuming they are both lifting for size (and if that's not the assumption, then this all goes out the window obviously), and both are doing 3x10 with x% of their 1RM. Does the one who is lifting more weight (Newb A) supposedly see more gains than Newb? I'm genuinely curious about this, relative to their strength levels aren't they both doing the same amount of "work" technically? Is there some factor I'm missing out on?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against strength routines (did SL myself), I have just always wondered about this.

I think this stand to reason to answer your question as posted by einstein...

you are born with a certain number of muscle fibers. More fibers are never produced, the ones that are there just get stronger. Your fibers work efficiently as possible, they use as little fibers possible to lift a certain weight. I have no idea if what the algorithm is or if there even is one for the rate at which these fibers can progress. But it makes sense to think that someone who benches 225 for 12 reps is going to require more fibers than a someone who is doing say 135 for 12 reps. Therefore more fibers are being broken down per lift by someone stronger. Does this make sense to everyone?

Regardless of relative strength I would think that the body would recruit less fibers to bench 135 then it would have too to bench 225, therefore more fibers are being broken down, more fibers are being repaired...which you would think would make you bigger...

i just can see a situation where if 2 identical people were to follow everything the same (diet sleep etc) but their training styles....the one who could lift more weight for an equal amount of repetitions would not get bigger faster.....

[Jasonk282]

Science make brain hurt...

lift weights while progressively overloading your muscles and eat food...it's that simple. As you get stronger for reps you'll get bigger as well. Someone who can do 225x12 is going to be a lot bigger than someone who can only do 225x1.

[MARCMANtheDUDE]

Sure I see your point, and it's a valid one. Internet forums aren't perfect, and this one is no exception.

I think though, that if you actually look at who is providing the conflicting advices that you'll come to realize that the vast majority of experienced guys will all pretty much have the same opinions on just about all the really important topics and most of the lesser-important ones. Generally, the conflicting info comes from inexperienced posters, those who only know what they've read out of a muscle mag or from what other, equally-inexperienced posters have written here.


This site has more posters offering advice who, themselves, have probably less gym time than the people asking for advice. Some forums (due to the regular posters in these different forums) on this site tolerate this situation more than some other forums.


I guess all I'm trying to say is to be picky about from whom you'll take advice. There are quite a few very knowledgeable people who post regularly in the open forums, but they're greatly outnumbered by the vast hordes of parrots who flood this site. You'll just have to work to figure out who belongs in which group.

well said

[MARCMANtheDUDE]

I understand your frustration MARCMANtheDUDE, one thing I learned very quickly was how much information/mis-information is out there. I'm sure everyone at some point feels this way when we are starting out, "What is the best workout for me?" well only you will know that, but you won't be able to figure that out till you understand your body. Like ironwill said start with one of the beginner programs, really, just pick one and stick with it. Check forums daily, read articles and eventually you will start to get a better understanding of exercises, programs and what works for you. Think of it like this, we go to school to get an education, which prepares us for the real world and the rest of our lives. A beginner program is just like this, it prepares your for more advanced/tailored routines later on down the road.

good point: just pick one and stick with it
then i can understand how MY body works then I can tweak along the way. Simple. I like it!
seems obvious now that you say that. As a noob who is a bit of a nerd, i was gong down the road of trying to figure it all out waaaaay to soob - lol

[MARCMANtheDUDE]

^This.

You'll get this once you spend more time in the gym, understand your body better and have more experience. The more experience you have the easier it will be to see who doesn't know quite what they are talking about. Doing too few reps or too many isn't going to kill you as a beginner. Small things don't make a huge difference so don't over think stuff.

The more you read on here once you learn who to listen to the more you'll learn. I had been training for years and thought myself to be fairly knowledgeable (false). I learn new stuff every single day browsing on here.

lol - yep! I do tend to over-think!

[MARCMANtheDUDE]

It raises the bar off the back creating a higher center of gravity, reducing the weight you can use, and increasing the danger of the exercise. Also pads are slippery causing early failure. DO NOT USE THEM.



I'm trying to thing where in the original post of a stickied thread anyone says anything like this?

Advanced routines are not ideal because advanced lifters can't gain much muscle and they have to work very very hard for every ounce. A beginner doesn't for a beginner it is easy to gain muscle so simpler programming works well for them. Beginners also lack the work capacity of someone with years of experience meaning that they will not be able to complete that marathon sessions an advanced lifter requires. At the same time the beginner doing an advanced routine can only gain muscle so fast any work done past the point where gains are stimulated is simply wasted or worse it lengthens recovery time for no extra gain. in short an advanced routine in the hands of a beginner will work slower and lead to greater injury than a beginner routine.

good!

well, there was the %x% sticky (now gone) and the sticky that goes over basic routines - they both talk abot doing 5 sets. I will read them again just to make sure.

so a newbie simply does not need to work crazy volume to get results initially. OK. Even if they can ahndle a high volume better not to since it is simply not needed?
Are noobs more prome to over training?

[JBisGod]

Here's my question though (continuing with newbie A and B). Assuming they are both lifting for size (and if that's not the assumption, then this all goes out the window obviously), and both are doing 3x10 with x% of their 1RM. Does the one who is lifting more weight (Newb A) supposedly see more gains than Newb? I'm genuinely curious about this, relative to their strength levels aren't they both doing the same amount of "work" technically? Is there some factor I'm missing out on?

Your brain and the nervous system are extremely plastic. The capacity to learn is amazing. When you play an instrument, it is extremely hard at first but the more you practice, the better and faster you get. Your hands "remember" where to go and what to do because you have taught the positions to your brain.

In much the same way, the beginner trainee's CNS is inefficient. It does not "know" how to recruit all the muscle fibers to do the work. I have no idea what % of fibers work in a beginner or an advanced powerlifter, but for the sake of argument say he starts at 30% of fibers recruited to do the work. One month later he has gained very little muscle mass, but his brain has learned to lift and learned to better use the resources (his body) to accomplish the task that has been done repetitively. Now 50% of muscle fibers are recruited and the athlete is much stronger, despite not gaining much size.

I can confidently say that I have more muscle mass than a 59kg powerlifter. Why can they lift way more weight than me? Their CNS can use more fibres more productively than mine can

so a newbie simply does not need to work crazy volume to get results initially. OK. Even if they can ahndle a high volume better not to since it is simply not needed?
Are noobs more prome to over training?

Frequency > volume for a beginner. Only a small stimulus is required for an untrained muscle to grow. For someone with years of GOOD training under their belt, more volume is required to stimulate growth in the muscle.