Rep Ranges

[Getsum]

To change up the “How often you max thread”, let’s move away from an actual one rep max and just discuss lower rep ranges, less than 5.

How often do you drop under 5 reps?

Is it required to perform lower reps if your goal is 100% Hypertrophy?

The reason I'm asking, and I'll use bench as an example, is because I've increased my 10 rep set on bench from 225x10 to 285x10 over the last couple of years. Honestly, I 'think' a big reason for this was because I do workout in the lower rep ranges. But, when I go back and look over my journal, I was just adding my little 1.25# micro plates from one workout to the next until I couldn't get 10 reps anymore. Once that happened I started doing the same thing with sets of 8, sets of 5, 3 and then it's rinse and repeat back to sets of 10 again over, the whole process can take 2 to 3 months.

I also think that moving from once a week approach to twice a week played a big role as well but it's really hard to pinpoint these things. Then to get right down to it, I'm wondering if I'm spending too much time in the lower rep range and instead should be jumping back to reps of 10 sooner. Which is also a big concern for me because I worried about peaking too early when it does come down to testing my strength in the lower ranges.

[dungeonmistress]

Never any more on purpose but occasionally on accident when I get too big for my britches and think I can lift more for a rep number than possible. I used to do low rep training when I was a a lot younger. These days I generally don't go below 8 for joint reasons (except on flat bench), although I do find when I go in the opposite direction - say 20 reps plus for quads, then my knees hurt more than if I increase the weight and do 8-12 reps. The 1.25 weenie weights are what helped me get over sticking points when I trained real heavy and was going for maximum numbers on the big 3 lifts when I was powerlifting.

[Garage Rat]

I wouldn't worry so much about lower reps if your goal is hypertrophy.
It's accepted by most that an 8-12 rep range is a hypertrophy range for most exercises.
Does it mean you won't gain muscle at a lower rep range no.
Everyone is different with fast and slow twitch muscle fiber ratios which can determine what rep range works better for them to gain muscle.
Why not try working with different rep ranges for cycles like 8-12,6-8,1-5's and see how it works.
Also adjusting the intensity of your workouts by time(how much work you can get done in a given time),protocol(super sets,drop sets ect)could also help you increase muscle.

[Evilcyber]

What the rep ranges do is just a rule of thumb. Lower ranges are more power-centric, higher ones more hypertrophic-centric, yes, but you always get a bit of the other.

As Rat said, simply vary what you do from time to time. If your goal is hypertrophy, do low reps once a month. It keeps the body engaged and should be beneficial to the rest of your progress.

[ironwill2008]

How often do you drop under 5 reps?

For at least part of almost every year, I'll block-out a length of time to work just on strength training with only a few selected compound lifts, the majority of which won't go over 5 reps. On some of those lifts, I'll only do triples.

Is it required to perform lower reps if your goal is 100% Hypertrophy?

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a requirement, G, but I usually find that such a stretch of heavy work will carry over to the ability to pick up a rep or three on higher-rep stuff when I move back to it.

If nothing else, doing some really heavy (for me) work is good for my head; it helps keep things interesting over the years.

[IronCharles]

I try to stay within the 8 to 10 rep range on my working sets. When I can get that 10th rep without much difficulty, I add an amount of weight that knocks me back down to 8 reps to form failure on any given exercise.

[Bo_Flecks]

Recently I finished a little over a year's worth of training in the 10-12 rep scheme with relatively high volume for all muscle groups. I considered it a very successful run as far as hypertrophy was concerned.

Now I have switched over to less volume, but increased training frequency using a 6-8 rep scheme for large muscle groups, and an 8-10 rep scheme for smaller muscle groups. I will stick with this for several months so I can actually evaluate and compare the results.

The only time I will ever do anything under 5 reps is if I have a REALLY bad day under the iron, and overestimate my ability. That almost never happens.

I do not change my training protocols very often. I like to give them time to produce the hypertrophy I am looking for.

[Corbi]

For at least part of almost every year, I'll block-out a length of time to work just on strength training with only a few selected compound lifts, the majority of which won't go over 5 reps. On some of those lifts, I'll only do triples.

Sounds similar to the Madcow 5x5 which I just started last week, trying to boost my bench which has always sucked.

[Getsum]

Really good responses, I see that I'm spending too much time doing lower reps and it's just not providing gains. I think I'm making my best gains during the weeks I'm doing reps of 8 or 10 and then still making some when I'm doing sets of 5 and it just feels like I'm trying to hang on from then on.

So going forward I'm going to try to commit to 2 or 3 weeks at sets of 10, 2 or 3 weeks at sets of 8, 2 weeks at sets of 5, then one week of lower reps to test myself.

There are some exercises that actually seem harder when I go down to sets of 10 though, mainly squats and deadlifts but if I stick to the 1.25# micro plates, I don't see why the progression wouldn't be similar what I do with bench.

[ironwill2008]

Sounds similar to the Madcow 5x5 which I just started last week, trying to boost my bench which has always sucked.

Indeed.

To this day, I still employ some of the basic principles I learned way back in the day from Starr's programs.

Ramping 5 sets up to one top set of 5 (and adding weight to all 5 sets at the next session when all reps have been made) is something that will just about always work for just about anyone. In particular, IMO it's an excellent way for bodybuilders to Deadlift.

[EjnarKolinkar]

I am still in novice land, but spent the better part of last year on 5x5. I was stagnated and switched to 3x8 for last 10 weeks. It was a good decision in hindsight. I made some progress, and felt more positive. I am switching back to 5x5 Monday.

I traditionally mess with my workouts too much. Fixing them until they are broke. I decided to do the 5x5 and stick to it. I probably stayed a little to long at the fair, trying not to return to a bad habit. I feel like I have a grip on it now, the difference between stagnation, and just messing with it too much.

[poundXpound]

Hi all. First post here. Long time lurker. It's my understanding that one reason for lifting heavy for 5 rep sets is to preserve LBM while in a calorie deficit. But when joints start protesting, deload with high rep sets to help them with lactic acid?

[Getsum]

I know that in my own training & rep schemes, I try to ensure that I'm hitting all four types of muscle fibers. Which is why I've always felt some work needs to be done in the lower rep ranges and well as some done in the higher. As well as throwing in some speed work and burnout sets.

Is this just all a bunch of bro-science? Seems real enough when I research it.

[TheIronMaster]

I ran a 12 rep scheme to break back in after my surgery. Im now running a target of 8 reps working on building power. The 5 rep idea never did well for me. 8 seams to be the sweet spot for me.

[Montourage]

I don't think I've gone under 5 since high school so I think it's safe to say not very often. I personally don't think it's needed myself but if someone hit a plateau with 8-12 reps, I'd certainly say go for it. I've always seen lower reps more for strength building and seems like your experience is good in that regard. The twice a week thing could be a big part of it as I believe I read research saying that was ideal.

[bigtallox]

How often do you drop under 5 reps?

Every gym lift session I drop under 5 reps, most of them I'll do at least a few sets of 3 or under reps. And probably 80% of events training sessions will include an axle deadlift for 3 or less reps ( but then I'll typically deadlift our frame for reps as well, ie high reps, like 500 pound frame for 15 reps or so ).

Is it required to perform lower reps if your goal is 100% Hypertrophy?

It seems like it's almost like discussing religion ( nobody is actually "right", there isn't/may not even be a "right" ), so all I can say about it is that it is for me. Back before I started training with the local powerlifters, I'd always lift for sets of 10, back when I didn't know what I was doing, lol, and I ( of course ) didn't make much progress.

[Getsum]

Every gym lift session I drop under 5 reps, most of them I'll do at least a few sets of 3 or under reps. And probably 80% of events training sessions will include an axle deadlift for 3 or less reps ( but then I'll typically deadlift our frame for reps as well, ie high reps, like 500 pound frame for 15 reps or so ).



It seems like it's almost like discussing religion ( nobody is actually "right", there isn't/may not even be a "right" ), so all I can say about it is that it is for me. Back before I started training with the local powerlifters, I'd always lift for sets of 10, back when I didn't know what I was doing, lol, and I ( of course ) didn't make much progress.

Really interesting BTO. So if I'm understanding correctly, you're actually doing some high rep work and low rep on most of your workouts?

I've tried something like this in the past, mainly on leg press to be honest. I know Bo_Flecks utilizes burnout sets and that's an interesting way of getting some higher rep work in as well.

This workout is from 8-11-12:

Squats- Barx5, 135x5, 225x5, 275x5, 315x3
Calf Raises- 135x10, 225x10, 275x4
Leg Press PWO- 270x15, 360x12, 450x10, 540x8, 630x6
Calf Press PWO- 270x15, 360x12, 450x10
Seated Leg Extension- 150x10, 165x10, 180x10
Seated Hamtractor (Leg Curl)- 195x10, 210x10, 210x10

You can see on the leg press that I was basically pyramiding up from lighter weight and higher reps to heavier weight and lower reps. I'm pretty sure I used to do this on bench but it's been ages for sure. I've always felt I've gotten a great workout when I was done but it can leave me gassed. Hmm, doing something like that with squats and deadlifts would be brutal for sure but it might be worth trying out.

I realize that there's a big endurance component in those strongman comps.

Thanks for the comments man.

[bigtallox]

Really interesting BTO. So if I'm understanding correctly, you're actually doing some high rep work and low rep on most of your workouts?

When training events, yes. Gym lift sessions, sometimes.

I realize that there's a big endurance component in those strongman comps.

A lot of the times there is. Some shows are heavy and tend be all max effort, others are lighter weight for reps/endurance. The variety is one of the things I like about strongman.

[MichaelCJ]

I generally do a mix of high reps (8-12+) and low reps (3-6 or so) each session, depending on the combination of lifts in question. But when I'm testing maxes (happens approximately once every few months) I'll drop down to the odd single here and there.. er, of course.

And the only lift I'll go as low as 3 or 4 reps, in the usual run of things, is deadlifts. Even then, not always.

[BloodySalad]

Every other week on Squats, OHP and Deadlifts. I alternate volume so that affects the rep ranges.
I reckon I've still got a long way to go on those exercises for the numbers to be reasonable and low reps help me to build them up. I go for 5 but sometimes I fail on 4 after the first set. IE: this week's squatting was 1x5 1x5 1x4 1x2 1x2. Next week I'll be looking for a 3 or 4x10 at a lower weight.

Benchpress I do a 3x5 every week but then lower the weight right after for a few sets of higher reps.

[MyNemisis]

Rarely on purpose. I usually aim for 8-12 reps depending on lift. I've had good luck the past 3-4 months lifting in reverse pyramids. So after a warm up set I'll go as heavy as I can for 8 or so then go down in weight, up in reps. Sometimes when I'm going up I'll only get 4-5 reps the first week with the new weight.

[Bo_Flecks]

I also think that moving from once a week approach to twice a week played a big role as well but it's really hard to pinpoint these things.

The increased frequency in my training is what I am really interested in evaluating. The only reason I backed down on the volume and rep scheme is to make sure my connective tissue does not get overworked. I have no doubt that the muscles tissue can handle it.

[ironwill2008]

I know that in my own training & rep schemes, I try to ensure that I'm hitting all four types of muscle fibers. Which is why I've always felt some work needs to be done in the lower rep ranges and well as some done in the higher. As well as throwing in some speed work and burnout sets.









Is this just all a bunch of bro-science?

Not at all. Very few of us are constructed with the same muscle fiber type all over our bodies, or even in any one particular muscle. It's only logical then to occasionally change set/rep schemes to exploit this, working for as much muscle stimulation as possible.


Eventually, after a number of years under the bar, a clearer picture of how each muscle group responds will begin to emerge. The 'best' number of sets/reps for a particular body part will become more apparent if we train consistently enough and make the effort to log our training sessions.


And even once our 'ideal' rep counts are discovered for each of our various body parts, it' still smart training to move away from it on occasion. This tactic will help us avoid injury, CNS burnout, and probably most important of all, training boredom.

[JRT6]

I do anywhere from 2 rpes to 25. Depends on what's been working for that particular exercise.

[frankzan]

My range is 1-30. I think It is good to build max power too to be able to lift more for longer sets.

[Getsum]

Not at all. Very few of us are constructed with the same muscle fiber type all over our bodies, or even in any one particular muscle. It's only logical then to occasionally change set/rep schemes to exploit this, working for as much muscle stimulation as possible.


Eventually, after a number of years under the bar, a clearer picture of how each muscle group responds will begin to emerge. The 'best' number of sets/reps for a particular body part will become more apparent if we train consistently enough and make the effort to log our training sessions.


And even once our 'ideal' rep counts are discovered for each of our various body parts, it' still smart training to move away from it on occasion. This tactic will help us avoid injury, CNS burnout, and probably most important of all, training boredom.

Interesting.

CNS adaptation is another reason reason I like the lower rep ranges but then I feel like that I'm staying there too long and running into CNS burnout. I'm really starting to think I'd be better served if I limit the time I'm spending doing lower reps, especially the singles or doubles.

Another thing that I think is smart training is training my weaknesses but I'm finding that not only is it hard to identify the weak points in a lift, it's also hard to pick the right exercises and rep ranges for those as well. It's a never ending cycle.

[JOHN GARGANI]

for me, whether I would low reps/maxes, would always be from a combination of how you FEEL on any particular day, combined with, and intimately associated with, BIORHYTHM Cycles....

I know when it is "safe" to try to do a single, or something close to it....

[bigtallox]

CNS adaptation is another reason reason I like the lower rep ranges but then I feel like that I'm staying there too long and running into CNS burnout. I'm really starting to think I'd be better served if I limit the time I'm spending doing lower reps, especially the singles or doubles.

I completely understand that. I'm constantly on the edge of CNS burnout. It's a balancing act, I have to force myself to limit how many singles->triples I do, otherwise that would probably be all I'd do, because I mentally truly love to lift that way, but physically that would get too taxing really quick. I've been adding in much more rep work ( with barbell lifts ) than I've ever done in the past, and that seems to be helping in avoiding full on CNS burnout.

Another thing that I think is smart training is training my weaknesses but I'm finding that not only is it hard to identify the weak points in a lift, it's also hard to pick the right exercises and rep ranges for those as well.

I think you're thinking about exactly what you need to be thinking about. Picking the right ( i.e. optimal ) accessory exercises is hard. I wish I knew an answer, I struggle with that too. I think all that anybody can really do is keep a log to try to keep track of what works and what doesn't work.

[ironwill2008]

... training my weaknesses...

After a number of years under the bar, ^^^^ this is the only way to keep moving forward.


Having a power rack offers a great number of options in being able to train specific parts of a ROM on each of the three basic lifts.

[AAOBob]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and have a question. Why not do both?

Why not do a 1*5 set and then drop it for a couple of lower weight 2*10's or the like?

Maybe its just me or the stage in training I'm at, but I tried this today with everything but deads and it felt good. I felt that I could do more weight on the higher rep range when I did a set of 1*5 at a higher than normal working range.

Don't know if this would bring the best of both worlds (str+size) or short circuit both, time will tell.