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  1. #31
    me>you ArchAngel'73's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DrStriation View Post
    Nope Allpro said it in his workout program
    That's fine, my jimmies ain't rustled.

    In my world
    it's not how much you lift
    but
    how much it looks like you could lift.
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  2. #32
    I'll Mod Til I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    I' ve never seen a proper definition of "Instinctive Training." If it's to just go in the gym and do whatever I feel like doing at that time, I can't see that will ever lead to anything good.


    Progression is the engine that drives growth. If it is present on a consistent basis in someone's training, then increase in mass/strength will follow (proper nutrition/recovery being a given here). If not, the trainee is merely chasing his own tail.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  3. #33
    Registered User x-trainer ben's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    I' ve never seen a proper definition of "Instinctive Training." If it's to just go in the gym and do whatever I feel like doing at that time, I can't see that will ever lead to anything good.


    Progression is the engine that drives growth. If it is present on a consistent basis in someone's training, then increase in mass/strength will follow (proper nutrition/recovery being a given here). If not, the trainee is merely chasing his own tail.
    Here is 1 ex.

    Instinctive training is an advanced training technique that allows an athlete to become more aware of their body’s response to training. This technique is not one a novice lifter learns overnight, it is one that is learned over time. Pre-planning in a general sense is good, but you can never fully know how your body will respond that day. Diet, sleep, and recovery all play primary roles in the performance of a muscle. Each day a lifter is uncertain of how exactly their body will respond to each exercise, set, and rep. Thus, they can use instinctive training to adapt their workouts on a daily basis to be certain they are the best they can be each day.

    Even though this training is called instinctive, there is some structure for intensity and progression purposes. The structure consists of three components: goals, movements and feel.

    Goals
    Simply because this type of training is instinctive does not mean it is without structure, just like with any program you must have an objective. Always enter the gym knowing which muscle groups you are about to train. This helps you develop a plan of attack for your routine and allows you to focus on a starting point which sets the pace for your workout.

    Movement
    Always start your workout with compound movements. For example, when you train legs start with a variation of a multi-joint exercise, such as squats or leg press. This allows for optimal stimulation of all muscles involved during the movement and helps prevent injury. It is safer to perform higher-risk exercises such as squats before fatigue has set in.

    Feel
    This is the key step to defining instinctive training. During your first set of each exercise you will become aware of your body’s response, and from that response you will be able to determine the flow of the workout. You will be able to decide which exercises are to follow, and what intensity levels to work with. Start with a goal weight and adjust according to your body’s response during that session. For example, if you start to feel you are not in control of the weight or it doesn't feel right, decrease the amount of weight and increase the number of repetitions. If the movement performed is too easy or volitional fatigue is not achieved with the intended number of repetitions, increase the weight and decrease the number of repetitions per working set. This type of adaptation and progression is applied to your exercise choices throughout the workout. Having full knowledge of your body is the key component to the effectiveness of instinctive training. Pushing your body to the absolute point of fatigue without pre-planning is an advanced technique. Instinctive training requires discipline and intuitiveness and can be a key component to an experienced lifter’s training regimen.

    I also recommend tracking your training in some type of a journal or log. This is very useful for future reference, as it tracks your progression and will insure you are not performing the same workout routines over and over. The goals of instinctive training are to help you develop an understanding of your body’s response to different styles of training, avoid plateaus and prevent overtraining. It also allows you to incorporate bits and pieces of different training methods and develop a truly individualized routine.


    and here is Weiders
    INSTINCTIVE TRAINING Experiment to develop an instinct as to what works best for you. Use your training results along with past experiences to constantly fine-tune your program. Go by feel in the gym: If your biceps just don't feel like they've recovered from the last workout, do another bodypart that day instead.
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  4. #34
    I'll Mod Til I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    I've read all ^^^^ this before.

    It's kinda like trying to define "failure;" it's pretty much open to individual interpretation. If everyone has his own idea of what it is, that makes it pretty difficult to discuss it's merits/limitations.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  5. #35
    Banned DrStriation's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ArchAngel'73 View Post
    That's fine, my jimmies ain't rustled.

    In my world
    it's not how much you lift
    but
    how much it looks like you could lift.
    That's fair enough, but all show without any "go" is ridiculous. What if you are called into action by your family to move furniture? What about on the battlefield if you country needed you? All the pumped up balloons of water and blood and veins of peace won't help you then.
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  6. #36
    Registered User x-trainer ben's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    I've read all ^^^^ this before.

    It's kinda like trying to define "failure;" it's pretty much open to individual interpretation. If everyone has his own idea of what it is, that makes it pretty difficult to discuss it's merits/limitations.
    Well if your getting injured frequently or sick in bed for days with nagging colds it may be a great tool to pull out of that toolbox.
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  7. #37
    198 or bust Getsum's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    I' ve never seen a proper definition of "Instinctive Training." If it's to just go in the gym and do whatever I feel like doing at that time, I can't see that will ever lead to anything good.


    Progression is the engine that drives growth. If it is present on a consistent basis in someone's training, then increase in mass/strength will follow (proper nutrition/recovery being a given here). If not, the trainee is merely chasing his own tail.
    Yeah, progression is the key and so is consistency.

    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    I've read all ^^^^ this before.

    It's kinda like trying to define "failure;" it's pretty much open to individual interpretation. If everyone has his own idea of what it is, that makes it pretty difficult to discuss it's merits/limitations.
    Failure is pretty clear with the strength training crowd!

    I posted this response to a question in my journal and it seems to apply here:

    I use my microplates on either max attempts or on my last working sets (I call them my money sets). The best place to see the steady increases would be on my bench press, for example, I was doing sets of 8 a few weeks back:

    1-13-13
    Incline Bench- 135x10, 165x10, 195x10
    Flat Bench- 225x10, 255x10, 287.5x7 (failed on the 8th rep)

    1-27-13
    Incline Bench- 135x8, 165x8, 195x8
    Flat Bench- 225x8, 265x8, 290x7 (failed on the 8th), 305x4 (two less than last workout)

    1-31-13
    Incline Bench- 135x8, 165x8, 195x8
    Flat Bench- 225x8, 265x8, 290x8 (yeah baby, 292.5 next workout), 315x4 (and I only got 305x4 last workout, wtf?), 337.5xfail (it felt good, just too much volume I think)

    2-3-13
    Incline Bench- 135x8, 165x8, 195x8
    Flat Bench- 225x8, 265x8, 292.5x8 (+2.5# over last workout), 315x3 (failed on the 4th rep, 1 less than last workout)

    Anyway, prior to that I was doing the same thing with sets of 10, just trying to add 2.5# to my last set on the next workout.

    Your second question is much harder to answer, I would say that I'm doing a hybrid of a few different types of programs. I don't know what I'd call it but this is how I envision it from the 40,000 ft level.

    1. Coming back from a long layoff, or when I feel like I need a break from heavy lifting from either feeling beat up, injured or not making any progress, I like to start with lighter weight and higher reps. So I might do sets of 12 for a couple weeks, then drop down to sets of 10, 8, 5 and 3 every couple weeks after that until I'm back into the lower rep range.
    2. Like I showed above, I like to warm up by pyramiding up to a working set and hopefully I can add a little weight on that last set from one workout to the next but if I can't, it's no big deal because I really feel that I know what my true maxes are from previous attempts.
    3. I like to max, win or lose, I really like testing myself.
    4. Recently, I started trying to Squat, Bench and Deadlift (or rack pull) multiple times a week. This is a big change from the once a week approach I used for years but I've made decent gains since switching over.
    5. My form, diet and training can always be improved.
    6. Rinse & repeat

    Here's a few different training programs I really like but do not follow them exactly:

    Wendler's 5/3/1 - Great program but it's only once a week - http://www.strstd.com/

    Westside Barbell Conjugate System - Great program, my squat and deadlift programs sort of follow this on max effort weeks - http://www.westside-barbell.com/arti...jugate-system/

    Nonlinear Periodization for Size and Strength - I think it's important to hit all 4 types of muscle fibers - http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=5163888

    Macenko Bench Routine - I love this program and it's why I went to benching twice a week but I still don't follow it exactly - http://www.bigcat844.com/bench-workout.html

    Ed Coan's Bench Press Routine - sorta where I got the idea of starting with high reps and decreasing them every couple weeks - http://www.criticalbench.com/ed-coan-bench-press.htm

    Anyway, I'm not just going through my workouts without a goal, it's just I'm not really following a program.

    My goal is simple, do better than my last workout.
    Eat, Sleep, Lift...Repeat!

    Starting Weight: 12-30-12 226#

    Current Max Lifts: 405S, 340B, 455D - Proof: http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/Getsum/profilecp.php?module=videos&type=favorite

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  8. #38
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    So many good replies! (which is why I still hold out hope for this place )

    The two replies that really spoke to me are below. (and what smellybull had to say)


    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    I' ve never seen a proper definition of "Instinctive Training." If it's to just go in the gym and do whatever I feel like doing at that time, I can't see that will ever lead to anything good.


    Progression is the engine that drives growth. If it is present on a consistent basis in someone's training, then increase in mass/strength will follow (proper nutrition/recovery being a given here). If not, the trainee is merely chasing his own tail.
    Originally Posted by Bo_Flecks View Post
    I would agree with this if a program is overly structured to rigidly select the progression in weight and rep schemes.

    I have always been very instinctive in how I decide my weight and rep increases with my hybrid training. If it is there and solid I will make the necessary increases on the fly. If not, that will be my starting point for the next time I train that muscle group.

    But I also think there needs to be a certain amount of regimen and tracking with this approach as well or as you said, gains could be left on the table. Constant forward progress is what I shoot for, so tracking gains and reviewing my impressions of how my muscle groups handle the lift becomes important to me.

    I also hold to these beliefs and I am thinking to move forward without any structure ESPECIALLY structured progression of some sort is a mistake. What I need to find is an appropriate progression scheme that will work for me. My current one, which has worked well, I think just involves too much weight all the time. Rarely do I do a set that is not to failure (failure being defined as not being able to complete another rep). This is breaking me down too much.

    A friend made a suggestion since I am considering shifting more towards powerlifting. He calls is a mutant love child of Sheiko with Westside and some bodybuilding thrown in . Real rough here is how it would lay out.
    4 day plan

    One day is Heavy squats, followed by speed deadlifts. For the squats, do doubles and triples in 3 week increments at 65%, 75%, 85% of your 1RM. Then week 4 hit singles at 90% to 95%. For the deads, you're just trying to build work capacity. So do 55% to 65% of your 1RM but rip that bar off the ground explosively. Get animated about it. Its not too heavy, but act like its a damn PR every rep.

    Day two is upper body stuff. So you'll bench with whatever scheme is working for you currently. I'd say 8 sets of 5... Maybe on the later sets, up the weight a bit and drop a rep or two off. Just make sure you keep pushing yourself hard there. After bench, some military press and some skull crushers and curlz to keep the ladies happy.

    Day three you're back to legs. Wide stance box squats this time though. 5 sets of 5 at 65% of your 1RM. If you can incorporate bands/chains this would be a great time to do it. Set the box height at parallel.

    Day four is only because you like to look good. So use this day to abuse whatever parts you feel are lagging.

    You need to run a simulated meet and fully max so you can recalculate your numbers. Maybe every 12 to 16 weeks.

    If I wanted to do heavy deads, I could swap them with box squats on day 3. Since I enjoy them a lot, I would probably go this route.


    Anyway.....when I step back and look at it, I agree that if my goals involve anything other then looks, a non structured program is not ideal for me. Since I can not deny that strength is a great motivator for me, and it does matter,....doing some haphazzard non-structured program would only lead to frustration and failure. I think I could pull off instinctive training to just "look" good.... but looking good gets old real fast. For me the motivation I get out of reaching new strength goals far eclipses how big my arms look day. I realize that this may not be the normal 'bodybuilder" way....but as I have always said, I am not a bodybuilder. I may resemble one in some ways but my goals are really a hybrid of looking good AND being as strong as I can be. One without the other is not satisfying. Having one or the other is nice....but to me, having BOTH is really rewarding.
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    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
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  9. #39
    The Flanimal project Flounderbout's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DrStriation View Post
    That's fair enough, but all show without any "go" is ridiculous. What if you are called into action by your family to move furniture? What about on the battlefield if you country needed you? All the pumped up balloons of water and blood and veins of peace won't help you then.
    Moving furniture on a battlefield is just asking for trouble. I mean even if you can bench 1 1/2 times your own bodyweight, you go prancing about with a wardrobe in a contact situation and bad things are going to happen dude...
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  10. #40
    Hammer time... Smelly bull's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DrStriation View Post
    Sounds like I rustled some jimmies!

    Well, for example lets say you are running 531 and you are tired from work that day. In order to reach your goals you may push harder and cause an injury?

    With regards to burn out, you may begin relying on a pre workout supplement to get through the above workout and may even begin to rely on it as you push week after week? That's just an example. Another would be if the program is not suited for you. For example I see a lot of beginners run the 531 program and it simply isn't for them as its too advanced. Btw I don't care how many years someone has trained, if they cannot squat x2 their body weight or bench 1.5x their body weight .....they are still classed as a beginner.

    As for the suboptimal gains, instinctive training allows you to do what is best for you , what you feel is best for you .......it brings a huge element of flexibility into your lifestyle and some people just need this or it's a struggle to hit the gym. Another example is the set in stone programs may just not be the best stimulation for the individual and therefore produce suboptimal gains.

    Just my 2cents
    No jimmies rustled...but your post fails.

    Nothing the matter with pushing harder..just because your tired doesn't give you an excuse to quit or use crappy form.

    "Burn out and you may rely on a workout supplement"..what? Oh, I am sure you know 5/3/1, I can tell this by your vast experience as defined in this post. How can use focus on your workout when you are watching and critiquing others 5/3/1 program?

    Please prove to me that Starr, SS, etc. may produce suboptimal results. Did you know Starr was written in the 60s and variations are still used today? Why? They work...they have built in progression,,built in deloads.
    “No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training… what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.” – Socrates

    My journal...mostly focused on losing weight and maintaining mass

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159539181&p=1192452511#post1192452511
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  11. #41
    Registered User frankzan's Avatar
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    Planned and detailed progression program for strength season, also have to have my deload weeks scheduled or I never do them. For muscle hypertrophy bb season it's more instinctive.
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  12. #42
    Hammer time... Smelly bull's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    I' ve never seen a proper definition of "Instinctive Training." If it's to just go in the gym and do whatever I feel like doing at that time, I can't see that will ever lead to anything good.


    Progression is the engine that drives growth. If it is present on a consistent basis in someone's training, then increase in mass/strength will follow (proper nutrition/recovery being a given here). If not, the trainee is merely chasing his own tail.
    As usual, Ironwill in for the win.

    Originally Posted by DrStriation View Post
    That's fair enough, but all show without any "go" is ridiculous. What if you are called into action by your family to move furniture? What about on the battlefield if you country needed you? All the pumped up balloons of water and blood and veins of peace won't help you then.
    Or Zombies????? You have to be ready for the Zombie attack and with my properly structured program complete with de-loads, I am ready for them basturds every few weeks...or when I deload.
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  13. #43
    Registered User Lvisaa2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Smelly bull View Post
    No jimmies rustled...but your post fails.

    Nothing the matter with pushing harder..just because your tired doesn't give you an excuse to quit or use crappy form.

    "Burn out and you may rely on a workout supplement"..what? Oh, I am sure you know 5/3/1, I can tell this by your vast experience as defined in this post. How can use focus on your workout when you are watching and critiquing others 5/3/1 program?

    Please prove to me that Starr, SS, etc. may produce suboptimal results. Did you know Starr was written in the 60s and variations are still used today? Why? They work...they have built in progression,,built in deloads.
    Not to mention the frequent deloads in 5/3/1 is specifically designed to continually make steady(maybe not the fastest) strength improvements while avoiding overtaxation/burnout/whatever excuse people want to use. 5/3/1 is one of the last strength programs I'd use as an example of burnout/injury risk.
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  14. #44
    Registered User BalhamBeast's Avatar
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    I have trained instinctively for years. I did have a brief spell on 5/3/1 and it's a good system but I have so many old war wounds that I'm always working around something and 5/3/1 doesn't really allow for that. Having said that, I still have a few staples such as military press that I try to improve on constantly. There does need to be a progression.
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  15. #45
    Registered User Chris_T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BalhamBeast View Post
    I have trained instinctively for years. I did have a brief spell on 5/3/1 and it's a good system but I have so many old war wounds that I'm always working around something and 5/3/1 doesn't really allow for that. Having said that, I still have a few staples such as military press that I try to improve on constantly. There does need to be a progression.
    Somebody said this upthread, too. But I'm not sure I agree. I know Wendler doesn't agree. 5/3/1 is not as rigid a program as its made out to be. Yes, 5/3/1 is a progression program, and you should be progressing, but if you're feeling burnt, there's no requirement that you go all out on the last set. Leave a couple of reps in the tank. Make adjustments as needed.
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  16. #46
    Do I Even Lift? billb7581's Avatar
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    I couldn't do it... my instincts would be to join Planet Fitness... they have pizza
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    Sorry guys but I cannot participate in this any more! Laughing too much!
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  18. #48
    Ripped Van Winkle IronCharles's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ArchAngel'73 View Post
    In my world
    it's not how much you lift
    but
    how much it looks like you could lift.
    I share Brian's viewpoint, here. I haven't moved any furinture in years, and I'm pretty sure they won't be drafting 51 year-olds anytime soon. I applaud those who value strength, but no one can say that someone else's goals are invalid (or important) because they don't match one's own.
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  19. #49
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    I share Brian's viewpoint, here. I haven't moved any furinture in years, and I'm pretty sure they won't be drafting 51 year-olds anytime soon. I applaud those who value strength, but no one can say that someone else's goals are invalid (or important) because they don't match one's own.
    IC is right we all have different goals. While I can respect that you feel that way, I can not relate to it at all.....not even in the least. I dont even really believe AA73 feels that way. You can see it in the pride he takes in his strength. If he really didnt care, he would not mention it.

    Just wanting big muscles makes no sense to me. As I said before, I am motivated (in training) mostly by the constant struggle to do more. This simple idea, has had the spillover effect of building muscle when combined with enough calories and proper rest. For me, I dont get fancy....just lift heavy stuff. (and that is fun to me)

    Wendler (creator of 5/3/1) summed it up the best when he said
    Having big muscles and no strength is the training equivalent of wearing a strap-on. That's right, I don't care how big you are, if you aren't strong you're a sham. All show and no go. End of story.

    And that about sums up the way I feel as well. Like owning a plane because it looks cool....but it is really just a static display and dosent actually fly. Not nearly as cool now. But as you said we all have different goals. I for one would pick size AND strength...but I am greedy like that
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  20. #50
    Ripped Van Winkle IronCharles's Avatar
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    Having big muscles and no strength is the training equivalent of wearing a strap-on. That's right, I don't care how big you are, if you aren't strong you're a sham. All show and no go. End of story.
    Perfect example of "my goal is better than yours." Could not have picked a better one.
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  21. #51
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    Perfect example of "my goal is better than yours." Could not have picked a better one.
    You want size with little regard to strength, I want strength with little regard to size... does that make me a sham as well?
    GFY
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  22. #52
    Monsta Big_Sky_Guy's Avatar
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    The concept of instinctive is too vague...everyone ultimately trains by instinct, even if it to do nothing more that change from one high structure program to another, or change our focus lift(s).

    I've run fairly well laid out programs such as 5, 3, 1 which was the most regimented overall, DeFrancos' Westside for Skinny Bastards which gave you choices on main lifts and accessories in 3 week blocks, and Westside Conjugate which actually is the most flexible in the choices available and can truly be quite complicated if you want the maximum from it. You have to know how your body responds to differing work loads.
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  23. #53
    Ripped Van Winkle IronCharles's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    You want size with little regard to strength, I want strength with little regard to size... does that make me a sham as well?
    Not in my opinion. As long as you are progressing towards your goals, then who's to say they are invalid?
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  24. #54
    Registered User BalhamBeast's Avatar
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    Re: 5/3/1 - That's well and good but when you have injuries that mean you can't bench or deadlift for a bit then obviously you can't do it.
    Current log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149169243

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  25. #55
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    Not in my opinion. As long as you are progressing towards your goals, then who's to say they are invalid?
    I so want to be part of the 4200 cals a day crew.
    GFY
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  26. #56
    Hammer time... Smelly bull's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    Not in my opinion. As long as you are progressing towards your goals, then who's to say they are invalid?
    Agree 100%....

    For the instinctive guys, what do you consider instinctive? The rep scheme? What body part to work on for the day? Exercises? Weights?
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  27. #57
    This too shall pass dazlittle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Smelly bull View Post
    Agree 100%....

    For the instinctive guys, what do you consider instinctive? The rep scheme? What body part to work on for the day? Exercises? Weights?
    I'm by no means the level of most people posting in here, But I train instinctively and to me that means I go into the gym knowing I'm doing Pull, Push or Legs but the instinctive part is what exercises I'm doing that day.

    Say for legs if I warm up on Squats first and I'm not feeling it I may switch to front squats or leg press.... I just go by how I'm feeling that day. I have every exercise logged in my tracker so no matter what I hit that day I can ensure I progress from the last time I did that exercise whether that be weight or reps.

    May not be the best way in the world but it keeps it interesting and entertaining and its kept me in the gym 3-5 times a week for the last 3 years.
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  28. #58
    Cutting since 10/20/2014 Brackneyc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    I so want to be part of the 4200 cals a day crew.

    Why not start today? Go with your gut on this one.
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  29. #59
    Registered User pastorgbc's Avatar
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    I believe with experience, we all incorporate instinctive principles into our workouts.For me, it falls more at the micro level than the macro level. For instance, I may add an extra set or two to a movement on shoulder day; I may up the weight more than I thought on a compound lift; I may do an extra movement for a body part 'just cause. These things keep workouts fun and interesting.

    However, I need structure and purpose to each workout. I set goals for each workout. If I smash a goal, that is excellent. If I fail to reach a goal, I reasses and restructure to hit that goal. Its how I roll.

    Ray
    “I have walked that long road ... I have made missteps along the way. But I have discovered the secret that after climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb. I have taken a moment here to rest...to look back on the distance I have come. But I can only rest for a moment, ... and I dare not linger, for my long walk is not ended.” ---Nelson Mandela
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  30. #60
    me>you ArchAngel'73's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DrStriation View Post
    That's fair enough, but all show without any "go" is ridiculous. What if you are called into action by your family to move furniture? What about on the battlefield if you country needed you? All the pumped up balloons of water and blood and veins of peace won't help you then.
    I don't have family-srs, and I have no doubts in my ability to go to war for my country.
    I compete in drug tested bb'ing shows, the judges don't ask us for displays of strength, they ask for a muscled physique.
    For me, strength is a byproduct for hypertrophy.

    I am strong, I think its cool, but I train mostly for muscle growth.



    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I dont even really believe AA73 feels that way. You can see it in the pride he takes in his strength. If he really didnt care, he would not mention it.
    I do ID.
    -read above
    I've seen what happens to many when they train exclusively for strength the majority of their lifting career.
    I'm still here, they are not.
    Not saying everyone is going to get pec tears, rip off a ligament, or irreversibly damage joints etc.., or God forbid, have a heart attack...but I don't want to go that way. I have enough genetic health factors to deal with.

    Jat Cutler has maxed DB curls with "only" 60's.
    This is a mulitple Mr. O, arms are hyooge.
    Yet he curls 60's.
    He's the same age as I, we started training around the same time in life, and we train in similar styles.
    We're both still around.
    It does/has/ and still does work for me.
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