Any Negative Effects W/ Ammonia Inhalants (Smelling Salts)?

[isaku900]

HT is right, ammonia is metabolized without any changes in adrenaline

so basically btlifter's premise is full of ****?

[HamburgerTrain]

so basically btlifter's premise is full of ****?

Yea, pretty much everything he said is not correct.

[simp3204]

Yea, pretty much everything he said is not correct.

<3 .

[btlifter]

Isaku, you're a sweetheart. lol

HT... interesting call out, and there's obviously validity to it. (of course there is, you're probably the most well read here and know your ****... i'm kind of glad to get to argue with you, i'm sure i'll learn something)

Anyway, I got ahead of myself with the adrenaline bit in an attempt to simplify my argument "my bad".

Though:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...4484869290144A does seem to suggest adrenaline levels may be raised, but maybe i'm misinterpreting the abstract... at the end of the day it really doesn't matter however.

Whether adrenaline itself is affected is really irrelevant. The introduction of ammonia will have (as you mentioned) similar effects on your hr blood pressure etc. as adrenaline. These effects will put your nervous system into a Sympathetic state, in much the same way a sudden increase in adrenaline will, no?

Getting your body into a parasympathetic state as soon as possible, and spending as little time in a sympathetic state has a lot of important hormonal implications, does it not?

[bigfor15]

Getting your body into a parasympathetic state as soon as possible, and spending as little time in a sympathetic state has a lot of important hormonal implications, does it not?

You're overthinking this entirely.

Since the sport of powerlifting is entirely based on that sympathetic state it's important to ameliorate the transition into a parasympathetic state, but there's a reason that Jesus invented 24 hour days. What you do outside of that window of training is just as important as what you do in the gym. Still, I think you're grasping at straws over this whole ammonia thing and additive/cumulative stress.

[btlifter]

You're overthinking this entirely.

Since the sport of powerlifting is entirely based on that sympathetic state it's important to ameliorate the transition into a parasympathetic state, but there's a reason that Jesus invented 24 hour days. What you do outside of that window of training is just as important as what you do in the gym. Still, I think you're grasping at straws over this whole ammonia thing and additive/cumulative stress.

I'm not sure why you think i'm grasping at straws over the "additive/cumulative stress". I mean, you're entitled to your opinion, but anecdotally, looking over 10+years of training journals, controlling my mental arousal has been one variable that has had the biggest positive effect on my training, I can also say it's had similar effects on a couple of training partners.

Anecdotal evidence be damned though, everybody is different and will have their own experience, but a lot of high level coaches tout the importance of controlling mental arousal in the gym (though, to my knowledge they haven't spoken specifically on ammonia, you get where i'm coming from, i'm sure)

edit: your 24hr point is a good one though. If you get really hyped up for big lifts consistently (whether through ammonia, or not) and are able to go meditate or do something else to get yourself back to baseline right away, then the negative effects will probably be virtually nonexistant. Personally, when I get really high for an important lift... make it or miss it, that lift is effecting me for quite some time, and it takes quite a while to get back into a parasympathetic state... If somebody is able to make that transition really quickly, then they're a lot better off.

[baxtej44]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...4484869290144A

vs.

[bigfor15]

I'm not sure why you think i'm grasping at straws over the "additive/cumulative stress". I mean, you're entitled to your opinion, but anecdotally, looking over 10+years of training journals, controlling my mental arousal has been one variable that has had the biggest positive effect on my training, I can also say it's had similar effects on a couple of training partners.

Anecdotal evidence be damned though, everybody is different and will have their own experience, but a lot of high level coaches tout the importance of controlling mental arousal in the gym (though, to my knowledge they haven't spoken specifically on ammonia, you get where i'm coming from, i'm sure)

I'm just saying that ammonia effects your mood, recovery, and general physical preparedness in about the same manner as drinking too much coffee in one sitting. Popping caps and shooting up everyday would probably be less detrimental to your well-being than missing a meal or forgetting your email password.

[arian11]

Negative Effects of Ammonia Inhalants:

Causes threads to be created where people argue over frivolous matters knowing that neither side is actually gonna change their ways whether convinced or not.

[btlifter]

I'm just saying that ammonia effects your mood, recovery, and general physical preparedness in about the same manner as drinking too much coffee in one sitting. Popping caps and shooting up everyday would probably be less detrimental to your well-being than missing a meal or forgetting your email password.

Obviously the email thing is a joke, but yeah, consistently missing a meal would probably be more detrimental than smelling salts everyday... but hell... missing a meal everyday would be pretty awful, and something i'd avoid at all costs.

Anyway, there (to my knowledge) are no long-term studies on this, so I suppose you and I will have to agree to disagree on the level of effect constantly introducing this stimulus will have.

[btlifter]

Negative Effects of Ammonia Inhalants:

Causes threads to be created where people argue over frivolous matters knowing that neither side is actually gonna change their ways whether convinced or not.

Funny, but not entirely true. I certainly disagree about it being "frivolous," beyond that... this place is SUPPOSED to be a marketplace of ideas, people can and should be discussing these things so that everybody can come out with more knowledge (whether anybody agrees or disagrees with me).... as long as we can refrain from silly personal insults...this isn't outlaws.

Additionally, somebody I was disagreeing with earlier, actually pm+repped me... while I could care less about "reps" spreading and gaining knowledge in intelligent and respectful ways is the only reason i'm here. Also if HT or bigfor were to introduce something that ran counter to what I think i'd be happy to concede a point if it meant gaining knowledge.

[jdude94]

This thread:

[HamburgerTrain]

Negative Effects of Ammonia Inhalants:

Causes threads to be created where people argue over frivolous matters knowing that neither side is actually gonna change their ways whether convinced or not.

Hahahahaha. All this time spent on here could have spent lifting.

[arian11]

Hahahahaha. All this time spent on here could have spent lifting.

Not for me, I'm stuck at work. Maybe I should bring dumbbells and bands to work and shut my cubicle and get my guns growing.

[slothguy]

Negative Effects of Ammonia Inhalants:

Causes threads to be created where people argue over frivolous matters knowing that neither side is actually gonna change their ways whether convinced or not.

I'm coming from a biased position here, as btlifter is my training partner and I agree with a lot of what he has to say. However, I felt the need to comment on this... What the **** is the issue with people having a constructive argument over an idea?? Do you personally give two ****s if anyone ends up changing someone else's mind?? That's not always the point of argument/debate. It's to instigate creative thinking... By doing this people can learn something new.

Posting a completely useless comment that has nothing to do with the argument (and a constructive one at that) in this thread is the only frivolous thing I can see in here.

[Jason2459]

I'm coming from a biased position here, as btlifter is my training partner and I agree with a lot of what he has to say. However, I felt the need to comment on this... What the **** is the issue with people having a constructive argument over an idea?? Do you personally give two ****s if anyone ends up changing someone else's mind?? That's not always the point of argument/debate. It's to instigate creative thinking... By doing this people can learn something new.

Posting a completely useless comment that has nothing to do with the argument (and a constructive one at that) in this thread is the only frivolous thing I can see in here.

I see you've never forumed before....or just trolling arian over pissing on someone else's attempt at an ego trip in another thread

[arian11]

I'm coming from a biased position here, as btlifter is my training partner and I agree with a lot of what he has to say. However, I felt the need to comment on this... What the **** is the issue with people having a constructive argument over an idea?? Do you personally give two ****s if anyone ends up changing someone else's mind?? That's not always the point of argument/debate. It's to instigate creative thinking... By doing this people can learn something new.

Posting a completely useless comment that has nothing to do with the argument (and a constructive one at that) in this thread is the only frivolous thing I can see in here.

Loling hard at the pot calling the kettle black.

[ButcherPLer]

Though:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...4484869290144A does seem to suggest adrenaline levels may be raised, but maybe i'm misinterpreting the abstract... at the end of the day it really doesn't matter however.

There is a fish at the gym I go to who is getting ready for his first PL meet in a month. He was asking me about snorting ammonia and its affect on adrenaline levels and I didn't know what to tell him. I'm glad I can now refer the fish to this study.

While most smells are detected by the olfactory receptors ammonia is a smell that is detected by the trigeminal nerve and sends an "oh ****" signal to the brain, and causes a release of adrenaline.

[HamburgerTrain]

Isaku, you're a sweetheart. lol

HT... interesting call out, and there's obviously validity to it. (of course there is, you're probably the most well read here and know your ****... i'm kind of glad to get to argue with you, i'm sure i'll learn something)

Anyway, I got ahead of myself with the adrenaline bit in an attempt to simplify my argument "my bad".

Though:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...4484869290144A does seem to suggest adrenaline levels may be raised, but maybe i'm misinterpreting the abstract... at the end of the day it really doesn't matter however.

Whether adrenaline itself is affected is really irrelevant. The introduction of ammonia will have (as you mentioned) similar effects on your hr blood pressure etc. as adrenaline. These effects will put your nervous system into a Sympathetic state, in much the same way a sudden increase in adrenaline will, no?

Getting your body into a parasympathetic state as soon as possible, and spending as little time in a sympathetic state has a lot of important hormonal implications, does it not?

There is a very big difference in the way humans pull 02 from air vs the was a fish pulls 02 from h20.

Sympathetic nervous activity (which ammonia huffing elicits) doesn't always mean a release in adrenaline. What you are talking about would be kinda of like saying "drinking coffee is kinda the same thing as snorting a bunch of ******* because both of them give you energy." Completely different mechanisms of action.

For powerlifting, it might be a good idea to spend some of training in a majorily sympathetic dominant state. Think of meet day. Pretty much 8 hours of $hitting your pants with anticipation. Just the heightened emotional state of competing is enough to shift into sympathetic dominance. "Getting your body into parasympathetic state as fast as possible" is tricky. Chemically, a couple mg of halidrol (spell check) will get you there in about 3 seconds. Unless you are the Dali f*cking Llama, very few people have the mental fortitude to return to "feed and breed" quickly after a bout of "fight or flight." Light aerobics (as little as 8 minutes), ice baths, compression, etc. have all been shown to return to parasympathetic dominance faster than rest alone.

Personally, I don't think anyone should use ammonia in training. If at any point in the gym, your emotional state is any degree higher than cool as a cucumber, you are doing it wrong.

Anyway, this is all just splitting hairs. Whether or not ammonia does anything to your adrenaline doesn't really matter. You are correct, a lot of sympathetic nervous activity, in general and under normal conditions, is bad. Ammonia does force you into an acute, transient sympathetic state. So, like I said before, smell
n salts should be saved for meet day.

[coolwavy]

i don't see any negative effects here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdNWoKWz15o#t=01m43s