O/T IIFYM Hodgetwins

[MrSilverback]

Lol Zmc...

A little interesting fact. Dorian Yates (6x Mr. Olympia in case you guys didn't know ) actually used IIFYM concepts. He has recounted stories of people gasping and going pale as he was 2-3 weeks out from a contest and eating a chocolate bar. He even said (paraphrasing) "I am still in a caloric deficit, so there is no problem"

There is a strategic clear cut purpose for the type and quantity of P/C/F you put into your body in a pre-contest situation. I doubt the chocolate bar was just because he craved it. It more likely was a result of blood sugar issues. Just like a person doesn't generally carb up on brown rice.

Once you understand the purpose of WHY certain foods are eaten, it has NOTHING to do with IIFIYM.

That's the derpness that annoys me.

[zmcdole]

Good for them dude.

Show me where Rsardinia uses IIFIYM IN THE FORM IT WAS ORIGINALLY PROPOSED AS

Also, did you really post a PL? Isn't this the IFBB forum?

Please, tell me how they practice IIFIYM in it's PUREST form lol.

PL's are the WORST example of IIFIYM. They've traditionally had the worst diets.

Robbie does it just as you defined. Eat it if it fits your macros. I posted a pic of Steve Kleva on a powerlifting platform in a very lean condition for someone who can squat in the mid 500's and deadlift in the mid 600's. Steve has competed several times on the bodybuilding stage btw.

But he looks like **** too.

[MrSilverback]

IIFYM is simply separating yourself from a specific foods diet
instead of eating talapia, chicken breast, brown rice, sweet potato during your diet, you eat variety of foods which help you achieve a specific ratio of protein, fat and carbs (plus adequate fibre). much like the abbreviation implies, If It Fits Your Macronutrient ratio, eat it

Ok so what you're saying is that white bread and lets say, brown rice are an equally effective carb no matter the circumstance?

[alan aragon]

Ok so what you're saying is that white bread and lets say, brown rice are an equally effective carb no matter the circumstance?

Yeah, brown rice is for pussies

[MrSilverback]

Robbie does it just as you defined. Eat it if it fits your macros. I posted a pic of Steve Kleva on a powerlifting platform in a very lean condition for someone who can squat in the mid 500's and deadlift in the mid 600's. Steve has competed several times on the bodybuilding stage btw.

Dude really what's your point? LOL

Pre-contest 5'10" 220 lbs



No longer competing, running a 10 min 1.5 mile and 46 sec 300m



Lots of people look good and SAY they follow IIFIYM but not a single person can give me a clear definition. It's a diet that may or may not even exist.

It's like saying well "I ate fish and got here!" LOL

[PillClinton]

Ok so what you're saying is that white bread and lets say, brown rice are an equally effective carb no matter the circumstance?

Hmmm, i don't think those two are created equal, no. Part of the myths of IIFYM fanatacism is that they are though, which is my gripe with it, too. People took some concepts that they "understood" and went way too far with it.

Eating 200 cal of processed trans fat vs. eating 200 cal from olive oil is not the same... calorie-wise, yes, they are the same. Health-wise.... no...

[zmcdole]

There is a strategic clear cut purpose for the type and quantity of P/C/F you put into your body in a pre-contest situation. I doubt the chocolate bar was just because he craved it. It more likely was a result of blood sugar issues. Just like a person doesn't generally carb up on brown rice.

Once you understand the purpose of WHY certain foods are eaten, it has NOTHING to do with IIFIYM.

That's the derpness that annoys me.

why are certain foods eaten? Why couldn't you carb up on brown rice? Is that carbohydrate not stored the same way as white rice? INB4 GI. Your posts oozed bro sauce all over my keyboard bro

[MrSilverback]

Yeah, brown rice is for pussies

I actually haven't eaten brown rice in years, that's besides the point.

My point is this: There really is no clearly defined principles or set of rules to IIFIYM. It's a diet that simply does NOT exist lol.

Funny thing is, like i said, I haven't counted a calorie a day in my life. I work off a preset food list for all the different macros broken down. I know certain foods have places in different stages of my diet.

No if you said: "Eat a low GI carb that fits in your macros" PERFECT. "Eat a lean protein if it fits in your macros" COOL, etc. It almost NEVER ends up like that.

[zmcdole]

Dude really what's your point? LOL

Lots of people look good and SAY they follow IIFIYM but not a single person can give me a clear definition. It's a diet that may or may not even exist.

It's like saying well "I ate fish and got here!" LOL

my point is that you can get in just as good a shape following IIFYM as you can a bro diet.

BTW IIFYM STANDS FOR: If It Fits Your Macros. There is no special way to do it. You do it however you want. It was started because people were always asking "can I eat this or can I eat that?" People responded with eat whatever you want as long as it fits into your macros.

what's funny is that there are BROS that think that eating certain kinds of fish will get you leaner or harder or fuller.

[MrSilverback]

Hmmm, i don't think those two are created equal, no. Part of the myths of IIFYM fanatacism is that they are though, which is my gripe with it, too. People took some concepts that they "understood" and went way too far with it.

Eating 200 cal of processed trans fat vs. eating 200 cal from olive oil is not the same... calorie-wise, yes, they are the same. Health-wise.... no...

See THIS^ I agree with. Exactly. The problem with it is there are really no set principles to it. Lots of people diet only on macros. However, it's not "if it fits in your macros".

why are certain foods eaten? Why couldn't you carb up on brown rice? Is that carbohydrate not stored the same way as white rice? INB4 GI. Your posts oozed bro sauce all over my keyboard bro

Dude stop. Please lol. Also, notice how i said generally. Sure, people carb up on brown rice. Some also carb up on home fries, pancakes, and white bread. This is EXACTLY my problem with IIFIYM.

In fact, I DARE you to challenge me on this:

-Take two people with nearly the same stats
-12 week diet
-Person A: Eats protein with high GI carbs that fit in their macros every meal
-Person B: Eats protein with lower GI carbs that fit in their macros every meal

Tell me person A will be leaner at the end. PLEASE LOL

[PillClinton]

I actually haven't eaten brown rice in years, that's besides the point.

My point is this: There really is no clearly defined principles or set of rules to IIFIYM. It's a diet that simply does NOT exist lol.

Funny thing is, like i said, I haven't counted a calorie a day in my life. I work off a preset food list for all the different macros broken down. I know certain foods have places in different stages of my diet.

No if you said: "Eat a low GI carb that fits in your macros" PERFECT. "Eat a lean protein if it fits in your macros" COOL, etc. It almost NEVER ends up like that.

At its most extreme, though, IIFYM as a diet works (i eat whatever i want under a caloric defecit and lose weight)... its a bit silly though.

There was even a documentary made to mock the absurdity of "supersize me" called "fathead." The author actually ate fast food everyday for (30?) days and lost weight. He argued that it was about portion control, not about McDonalds making people fat. Obviously the health implications are different, but i think the point is there

[Jeddore]

-Take two people with nearly the same stats
-12 week diet
-Person A: Eats protein with high GI carbs that fit in their macros every meal
-Person B: Eats protein with lower GI carbs that fit in their macros every meal

Tell me person A will be leaner at the end. PLEASE LOL

expecting GI to be applicable when in a 'meal' context lol bro do u even facilitated absorption?



3:50

[MrSilverback]

At its most extreme, though, IIFYM as a diet works (i eat whatever i want under a caloric defecit and lose weight)... its a bit silly though.

There was even a documentary made to mock the absurdity of "supersize me" called "fathead." The author actually ate fast food everyday for (30?) days and lost weight. He argued that it was about portion control, not about McDonalds making people fat. Obviously the health implications are different, but i think the point is there

Yeah but then I argue you with you that not all bodybuilders are concerned with losing "weight". It also happens we're in the IFBB forum. If I set a caloric goal of 2000 cals a day to "lose weight"; subsequently, filled those calories with ONE "crappy" meal per day (hitting my macros), I'd look like a bag of a$$. Simple as that. Do you REALLY feel you're doing the BEST you can with that diet?

[PillClinton]

Yeah but then I argue you with you that not all bodybuilders are concerned with losing "weight". It also happens we're in the IFBB forum. If I set a caloric goal of 2000 cals a day to "lose weight"; subsequently, filled those calories with ONE "crappy" meal per day (hitting my macros), I'd look like a bag of a$$. Simple as that. Do you REALLY feel you're doing the BEST you can with that diet?

well, i don't know if you would look like a "bag of a$$," which.. lets be honest would look pretty funny if someone looked like a bag of ass... but you would certainly be doing your health a disservice if you ate 3000k everyday, under your macros, with $1 menu items and apple pies.

[MrSilverback]

expecting GI to be applicable when in a 'meal' context lol bro do u even facilitated absorption?



3:50

Fat plays a part in it as well. FURTHERMORE, you have people that respond differently and have different body types. I've actually put higher GI carbs BACK in closer to contest because people have gone flat. I've also pulled carbs out and subb'd with lower GI carbs because they were behind. Fats ALSO play a role in the absorption of protein and carbs as well. Once again, another problem with IIFIYM. I respect Layne but he's essentially saying EXACTLY what my point is lol. It varys from person to person.

So really, in summary, the ONLY clearly defined principle we can establish is that:

Diet breakdown is based on macros. Cool story LOL

[MrSilverback]

well, i don't know if you would look like a "bag of a$$," which.. lets be honest would look pretty funny if someone looked like a bag of ass... but you would certainly be doing your health a disservice if you ate 3000k everyday, under your macros, with $1 menu items and apple pies.

Yeah but you never answered my question:

Do YOU truly believe you look the BEST you possibly can on IIFIYM?

[zmcdole]

See THIS^ I agree with. Exactly. The problem with it is there are really no set principles to it. Lots of people diet only on macros. However, it's not "if it fits in your macros".



Dude stop. Please lol. Also, notice how i said generally. Sure, people carb up on brown rice. Some also carb up on home fries, pancakes, and white bread. This is EXACTLY my problem with IIFIYM.

In fact, I DARE you to challenge me on this:

-Take two people with nearly the same stats
-12 week diet
-Person A: Eats protein with high GI carbs that fit in their macros every meal
-Person B: Eats protein with lower GI carbs that fit in their macros every meal

Tell me person A will be leaner at the end. PLEASE LOL

did you know that GI is deemed irrelevant once carbs are consumed with other macronutrients? I'm sure you did I'm sure of it.

Please explain how it's more beneficial to carb up with one source of carbs vs. another? Are they stored differently or something? The only time this is a matter of concern is time. If you need to carb up in a matter of hours or you're an endurance athlete and you need to replenish your glycogen stores immediately. In both cases the carbs are going to be consumed almost entirely by themselves/in the absence of other macros.

Since you dared me I'll come at you BRO. This was taken from a post I made over on MD on the EXACT SAME SUBJECT.

Alright guys I've gotten lean/prepped using both methods. Both times I dieted I used IIFYM, but my 2nd prep/diet included more extreme forms of it (junk foods worked into diet) than the other. The 1st prep was much more "BROish".

In these pics I had dieted for 20+ weeks using IIFYM via different carbs, proteins, and working in some treats here and there. My food choices were much more "BRO" in this diet:






In these pictures I used IIFYM a whole lot more and I was fitting in treats daily. I dieted for 16 weeks here.







In my own opinion I achieved nearly equal conditioning in a shorter amount of time with more mass as I was 187 in the 2nd set of pics and I was about 178 in the 1st set.

[HeadlessChicken]

You guys are way overboard...you can't follow IIFYM "the way it was designed" because it was never really designed.

The way I follow it:
I wish I could choke down plain chicken breasts but I can't. So I eat them with salsa and sour cream...but I account/compensate for those bogus calories/nutrients in my daily total.

[alan aragon]

I actually haven't eaten brown rice in years, that's besides the point.

My point is this: There really is no clearly defined principles or set of rules to IIFIYM. It's a diet that simply does NOT exist lol.

Funny thing is, like i said, I haven't counted a calorie a day in my life. I work off a preset food list for all the different macros broken down. I know certain foods have places in different stages of my diet.

No if you said: "Eat a low GI carb that fits in your macros" PERFECT. "Eat a lean protein if it fits in your macros" COOL, etc. It almost NEVER ends up like that.

MrSilverback confirmed for brotacular bro (the GI part seals it lol).

[PillClinton]

Yeah but you never answered my question:

Do YOU truly believe you look the BEST you possibly can on IIFIYM?

you mean if I throw in a candy bar or two into a cutting diet? Because, again, its not a diet... though some loonies talk about fat loss like it is...

I posted earlier in the thread, that I eat around 2000-2200 calories and maintain 175-185 pounds. I have eaten as low as 1700 cals and still not been that shredded (this is with little cardio + i have a sedentary job 5 days a week). If I really want to get shredded (which i don't), i would personally avoid junkfood. Not because i don't believe i could do it, but because it would be torture to do so.

eating 500 calories from chicken and almonds will fill me up a lot longer than say... 500 calories from cake... or 500 calories from whey protein and some candy...

So i think the question you are asking is "do i truly believe i can look my best by just eating junk food?"... to that i would say, "no"

[PillClinton]

You guys are way overboard...you can't follow IIFYM "the way it was designed" because it was never really designed.

The way I follow it:
I wish I could choke down plain chicken breasts but I can't. So I eat them with salsa and sour cream...but I account/compensate for those bogus calories/nutrients in my daily total.

you summed up IIFYM in two sentences... lol, nice.

Unfortunately... while you or I may understand it, many people will then go on to say "pizza doesn't contribute to fat loss...excess calories do." only problem with this is is that the presenter will then go on to provide examples for the claim "pizza doesn't contribute to fat loss," meanwhile, the qualifier is presented as "excess calories make you fat," but leaves out another qualifier, which is: " 'junk' foods are not good for you as a main source of your diet." So, you will have people hear this, and think "I can just eat pizza/ice cream/poptarts/poop, and get ripped!".... they may be able to... its just not good for you.

[patbanya]

In my own opinion I achieved nearly equal conditioning in a shorter amount of time with more mass as I was 187 in the 2nd set of pics and I was about 178 in the 1st set.

From Muscular Development Forums http://forums.musculardevelopment.co...mentary/page21.

The diet I did that was primarily bro I got all the way down to 1800 calories and the volume of my meals was very small because I was eating 6-7 meals a day. However, my IIFYM diet had me eating around 4 times a day and I believe the lowest my cals went was 2200. I found that the larger less frequent meals kept me satisfied for longer.

You look great, and you know your body, there's no doubt about it! But, couldn't the difference in weight be attributed to the fact that you consumed more calories when you were eating a flexible diet? I just think it's important to note that there were differences in your intake. If we overlook that bit of information, it's not an accurate description.

Please explain how it's more beneficial to carb up with one source of carbs vs. another? Are they stored differently or something? The only time this is a matter of concern is time. If you need to carb up in a matter of hours or you're an endurance athlete and you need to replenish your glycogen stores immediately. In both cases the carbs are going to be consumed almost entirely by themselves/in the absence of other macros.

You basically answered this one yourself. The parts in bold pretty much summarize why someone would opt to eat specific carbs prior to pre-judging or before a workout. Also, some people just have an easier time digesting certain foods, or allergies could be involved.

[Leprechauns1021]

IIFYM diet is the worst thing to happen to "bodybuilding" in the last few years. Here's my take on this whole thing:

If you're calling yourself a "bodybuilder", and you're not willing to a few simple things like have a grocery shopping day, eat certain foods, eat something every few hours, follow a list of foods called a "diet", then maybe you need to find another sport.

Real Bodybuilders have no problem doing any of these things, and if you were to put dog **** on that list of foods called a "diet", a real bodybuilder would figure out a way to eat it.

If you can't do these things, it's ok. You're just not a real bodybuilder, that's all. Call yourself a "recreational body shaper", or "fitness enthusiast". Just stop calling yourself a bodybuilder.

And if you're not willing to do these things, or if they're too uncomfortable for you, that doesn't mean you need to scramble to find scientific research to validate your behavior and then call real Bodybuilders "bull****" because they ARE willing to do these things. It's ok, just don't do them.

And it really doesn't matter if eating every 2 hours raises metabolism or not, does it? Because even if we knew it was the premier way to increase BMR, you still couldn't do it, so lets give that a rest.

I'm glad bodybuilding is difficult. It's the reason I chose it in the first place. It's incredibly challenging and therefore incredibly rewarding. If everyone could do it, it wouldn't be as special to me.

And finally, don't presume to tell me what I should and shouldn't have to do within the context of MY sport, a world you've never stepped foot in and about which you know literally nothing. You're in MY world whenever you talk about "bodybuilding". Act accordingly and show some respect. You're in the presence of someone who can do things you cannot and never will.

[alan aragon]

IIFYM diet is the worst thing to happen to "bodybuilding" in the last few years. Here's my take on this whole thing:

If you're calling yourself a "bodybuilder", and you're not willing to a few simple things like have a grocery shopping day, eat certain foods, eat something every few hours, follow a list of foods called a "diet", then maybe you need to find another sport.

Real Bodybuilders have no problem doing any of these things, and if you were to put dog **** on that list of foods called a "diet", a real bodybuilder would figure out a way to eat it.

If you can't do these things, it's ok. You're just not a real bodybuilder, that's all. Call yourself a "recreational body shaper", or "fitness enthusiast". Just stop calling yourself a bodybuilder.

And if you're not willing to do these things, or if they're too uncomfortable for you, that doesn't mean you need to scramble to find scientific research to validate your behavior and then call real Bodybuilders "bull****" because they ARE willing to do these things. It's ok, just don't do them.

And it really doesn't matter if eating every 2 hours raises metabolism or not, does it? Because even if we knew it was the premier way to increase BMR, you still couldn't do it, so lets give that a rest.

I'm glad bodybuilding is difficult. It's the reason I chose it in the first place. It's incredibly challenging and therefore incredibly rewarding. If everyone could do it, it wouldn't be as special to me.

And finally, don't presume to tell me what I should and shouldn't have to do within the context of MY sport, a world you've never stepped foot in and about which you know literally nothing. You're in MY world whenever you talk about "bodybuilding". Act accordingly and show some respect. You're in the presence of someone who can do things you cannot and never will.

Dammit, ran out of reps

[RoroCwalker]

Don't forget the micro nutrients, it completely denies the IFFYM way of thinking

[MrSilverback]

did you know that GI is deemed irrelevant once carbs are consumed with other macronutrients? I'm sure you did I'm sure of it.

OK so let's say you're 6 weeks out from your show:

Lean chicken breast/almonds/sweet potato

vs.

Lean chicken breast/almonds/white bread

Is this seriously real life? LOL

Please go and take your non-placements with you. This is what i love about the IIFIYM crowd. It dies on the podium. Then you're left thinking "Well maybe I shouldn't have done that"

Better yet, CONGRATS. You practiced what nearly all serious bodybuilders practiced.

It's called: STRATEGIC DIETING

EDIT: Also, AWESOME consideration for the points i mentioned below in that approach.

brb Someone who's behind eating sh*t carbs, sh*t fat, and whatever protein because "IIFIYM"

MrSilverback confirmed for brotacular bro (the GI part seals it lol).

Read above and tell me that the GI of the carb doesn't matter when consumed with other macronutrients. You can spit science this, science that. Doesn't matter. Where the rubber meats the road, it doesn't work. Simple as that. It DOES vary from individual to individual. Maybe one guy who has a tendency to go flat will leave grits/white pots/white rice in longer than a guy who has trouble dropping fat. It's a give and take. As well as a balance. For a kid to post a thread:

"Can I eat white rice on my diet?" and someone to respond "Sure IIFIYM" is not only irrelevant and poor advice, but looking at 1% of the picture.

-What's your cardio like?
-How has your progress been coming along?
-What other macros are in that specific meal(s)
-Where in relation to your workout is that meal?

etc.

IIFIYM is basically saying "Sure bro. If it works for you." Like i said, cool story. Even cooler story if its NOT working LMAO.

you mean if I throw in a candy bar or two into a cutting diet? Because, again, its not a diet... though some loonies talk about fat loss like it is...

I posted earlier in the thread, that I eat around 2000-2200 calories and maintain 175-185 pounds. I have eaten as low as 1700 cals and still not been that shredded (this is with little cardio + i have a sedentary job 5 days a week). If I really want to get shredded (which i don't), i would personally avoid junkfood. Not because i don't believe i could do it, but because it would be torture to do so.

eating 500 calories from chicken and almonds will fill me up a lot longer than say... 500 calories from cake... or 500 calories from whey protein and some candy...

So i think the question you are asking is "do i truly believe i can look my best by just eating junk food?"... to that i would say, "no"

Well are we talking about "competitive bodybuilding" or just "losing some weight". Bodybuilders do thing with a CLEAR purpose in mind 365 days a year. When they eat sh*t in the offseason, it's for a purpose. When they throw in a re-feed during prep, it's for a purpose. Just like why they choose to eat a certain way most of the time. It's about maximizing your time and results. It's not because it's "too hard" has the gentleman said below.

IIFYM diet is the worst thing to happen to "bodybuilding" in the last few years. Here's my take on this whole thing:

If you're calling yourself a "bodybuilder", and you're not willing to a few simple things like have a grocery shopping day, eat certain foods, eat something every few hours, follow a list of foods called a "diet", then maybe you need to find another sport.

Real Bodybuilders have no problem doing any of these things, and if you were to put dog **** on that list of foods called a "diet", a real bodybuilder would figure out a way to eat it.

If you can't do these things, it's ok. You're just not a real bodybuilder, that's all. Call yourself a "recreational body shaper", or "fitness enthusiast". Just stop calling yourself a bodybuilder.

And if you're not willing to do these things, or if they're too uncomfortable for you, that doesn't mean you need to scramble to find scientific research to validate your behavior and then call real Bodybuilders "bull****" because they ARE willing to do these things. It's ok, just don't do them.

And it really doesn't matter if eating every 2 hours raises metabolism or not, does it? Because even if we knew it was the premier way to increase BMR, you still couldn't do it, so lets give that a rest.

I'm glad bodybuilding is difficult. It's the reason I chose it in the first place. It's incredibly challenging and therefore incredibly rewarding. If everyone could do it, it wouldn't be as special to me.

And finally, don't presume to tell me what I should and shouldn't have to do within the context of MY sport, a world you've never stepped foot in and about which you know literally nothing. You're in MY world whenever you talk about "bodybuilding". Act accordingly and show some respect. You're in the presence of someone who can do things you cannot and never will.

Repped.

[patbanya]

Don't forget the micro nutrients, it completely denies the IFFYM way of thinking

Care to elaborate? In many cases, when consuming a deficit, micro nutrient RDA's fall short. Some flexible eaters may be guilty of selecting less nutritious foods, but it depends on the individual. In my experience, the lack of variety with a strict diet also makes getting the full spectrum of vitamins and minerals an issue. In either case, I think taking a multivitamin is a good idea. During the off season, that might not be necessary, but everyone is different.

Repped.

LOL! You do realize he's joking, don't you? That entire rant was originally posted by Mike Pulcinella, on behalf of his brother Dave. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=151738753

[PillClinton]

Well MrSilverback, I am not a competetive bodybuilder, nor do I claim to be. The question asked about me, specifically, not competetive bodybuilders.

[MrSilverback]

Well MrSilverback, I am not a competetive bodybuilder, nor do I claim to be. The question asked about me, specifically, not competetive bodybuilders.

This is not a dig on you but then....

WHY IS THIS POST EVEN IN THIS FORUM!

I understand you. You don't want to kill yourself dieting. That's cool. I respect that. I don't compete anymore. I DO NOT miss the days of being very tired and cranky. You're happy with your progress and that's fine.

My problem with the principle behind "IIFIYM" is the arbitrary nature of it.

Bodybuilding, like Leprechaun said, is doing what is NEEDED to accomplish your goal.

Bodybuilding is NOT doing as LEAST possible to accomplish your goal.

If adding certain "crap" to your diet helps you fill out and spark additional weightloss, go for it. I've used this method, it's called STRATEGY. To call it "IIFIYM" is just plain full-retard.

[MrSilverback]

LOL! You do realize he's joking, don't you? That entire rant was originally posted by Mike Pulcinella, on behalf of his brother Dave.

Nope. I do agree with it though. Too many people are looking for easy ways out. They're not looking to put in the work needed to achieve their goal. Simple as that.