Rear Delt Work and Novice 5x5?

[Daniel0636]

I'm starting Jason's ICF Novice 5x5 tomorrow. I've been doing a push/pull/leg split 2x a week for the last 4 months but I think this programme will give me better results atm. I used to have some pretty bad rotator cuff/shoulder imbalance problems but but when I started at the gym again 4 months ago doing rear delt and rotator work helped get my shoulders completely back to normal. On jason's 5x5 there's not really any rear delt work, do you think this is ok? or should I do my rotator/rear delt work on my off days? I just don't want any old problems to flair up again.

[Jasonk282]

add in rear delt work every workout day, your RC will thank you and it's going to hinder any progress you'll make

I do rear delt flies 3x a week.

[Daniel0636]

add in rear delt work every workout day, your RC will thank you and it's going to hinder any progress you'll make

I do rear delt flies 3x a week.

When do you think I should put it in? just a couple of sets at the end of my workout?

Workout A
Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Rows 5x5
Shrugs 3x8
Skullcrusher 3x8
Chins 3x5-8
or Striaght Bar/Incline Curl 3x8
Hyperextention 2x10
Kneeling Cable Crunch 3x10-20

Workout B
Squat 5x5
Deadlift 1x5
Standing Press 5x5
Row 5x5 -10%
CGBP 3x8
Straight Bar or Incline Curl 3x8
Kneeling Cable Crunch 3x10-20

[DivaJana]

I'm starting Jason's ICF Novice 5x5 tomorrow. I've been doing a push/pull/leg split 2x a week for the last 4 months but I think this programme will give me better results atm. I used to have some pretty bad rotator cuff/shoulder imbalance problems but but when I started at the gym again 4 months ago doing rear delt and rotator work helped get my shoulders completely back to normal. On jason's 5x5 there's not really any rear delt work, do you think this is ok? or should I do my rotator/rear delt work on my off days? I just don't want any old problems to flair up again.

Why wouldn't it be ok? I'd do it after the last exercise of the day.

[Daniel0636]

Why wouldn't it be ok? I'd do it after the last exercise of the day.

The only reason I ask is just because most people tell you not to change the routine up and just leave it as it is.

[ironwill2008]

The only reason I ask is just because most people tell you not to change the routine up and just leave it as it is.

That's because noobs don't have any programming experience. If they think it's okay to change one "small" thing, the next thing that happens is that before long, they're doing nothing but Bench and Curls. And abs.

[DivaJana]

The only reason I ask is just because most people tell you not to change the routine up and just leave it as it is.

Just like ironwill2008 stated, beginners shouldn't be doing major changes because they might end up messing things up due to the lack of experience.
But adding a single accessory movement because it was very beneficial for you in the past is a smart move and totally fine.

[Daniel0636]

Just like ironwill2008 stated, beginners shouldn't be doing major changes because they might end up messing things up due to the lack of experience.
But adding a single accessory movement because it was very beneficial for you in the past is a smart move and totally fine.

Ok cool, thanks for the help

[Daniel0636]

That's because noobs don't have any programming experience. If they think it's okay to change one "small" thing, the next thing that happens is that before long, they're doing nothing but Bench and Curls. And abs.

True, I fell into that trap when I first started lifting in college and after a year I had rotator cuff issues. Took 10 months with no weights (5 months of which was physio) to get back to normal. I made sure I did a lot of research beforehand this time but I'm still learning a lot at the moment though.

[Jasonk282]

When do you think I should put it in? just a couple of sets at the end of my workout?

Workout A
Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Rows 5x5
Shrugs 3x8
Skullcrusher 3x8
Chins 3x5-8
or Striaght Bar/Incline Curl 3x8
Hyperextention 2x10
Kneeling Cable Crunch 3x10-20

Workout B
Squat 5x5
Deadlift 1x5
Standing Press 5x5
Row 5x5 -10%
CGBP 3x8
Straight Bar or Incline Curl 3x8
Kneeling Cable Crunch 3x10-20

honestly whenever you want. TBH, i really don;t like jason's 5x5, but whatever.

[Daniel0636]

honestly whenever you want. TBH, i really don;t like jason's 5x5, but whatever.

What would you recommend just out of interest?

This was the workout I've been doing for the last 4 months btw...

Day 1 (Chest, Triceps and Shoulders)
Dumbbell Flat Bench Press (4 sets) 6-10 reps
Dumbbell Shoulder Press (4 sets) 6-10 reps
Overhead Tricep Extensions (3 sets) 8-12 reps
Dumbbell Flys (3 sets) 8-12 reps
Dips or Diamond Pushups (3 sets) 10-15 reps
Side Raises (3 sets) 8-12 reps

Day 2 (Legs)
Squats (4 sets) 6-12 reps
Leg Press (2 sets) 8-15 reps
Hamstring Curl (4 sets) 8-15 reps
Calve Raises (4 sets) 10-20 reps

Day 3 (Back and Bicep)
Pullups (3 sets) 10 reps
Wide Grip Lat Pulldowns (2 sets) 8-12 reps
Dumbbell Rows (4 sets) 6-10 reps
Bicep Curls (3 sets) 8-12 reps
Rear Delt Flys (4 sets) 8-15 reps
Dumbbell Shrugs (4 sets) 8-12 reps
Cuban Rotation (3 sets) 10 reps
Decline Weighted Crunches (3 sets) 10-20 reps
Leg Raises (3 sets) 12-20 reps

Day 4 (Rest)

(Repeat)

[KidAlchemy]

they're doing nothing but Bench and Curls. And abs.

Living the dream brah, living the dream. J/k though, I hate doing abs.

[Jasonk282]

What would you recommend just out of interest?

For a beginner?

starting strength and/or stronglifts.

[DivaJana]

For a beginner?

starting strength and/or All pro's.

I don't recommend stronglifts because it's just a rip off starting strength

[Jasonk282]

I don't recommend stronglifts because it's just a rip off starting strength

All pros's is good, but not the same as jason's 5x5 which is just stronglifts with a hell of unneeded isolation lifts for a beginner.

So if a beginner is looking to get strong fast...starting strength, geared towards athletes with the power clean, or Stronglifts, geared towards 'bodybuilders' with the rows.

I ran SS with rows instead of cleans and not a fcuk was given.

stronglifts also have more volume than SS which if you want more volume is the way to go.

[Killafornia805]

looks at avi

[DivaJana]

All pros's is good, but not the same as jason's 5x5 which is just stronglifts with a hell of unneeded isolation lifts for a beginner.

So if a beginner is looking to get strong fast...starting strength, geared towards athletes with the power clean, or Stronglifts, geared towards 'bodybuilders' with the rows.

I ran SS with rows instead of cleans and not a fcuk was given.

stronglifts also have more volume than SS which if you want more volume is the way to go.

I agree but I gave him all pro's so that he can have variety of options to choose from.
I did SS with Pendlay Rows too. I only power clean when I'm trying to do overhead press and the rack is busy

[Quadzillas]

For a beginner?

starting strength and/or stronglifts.

I'd agree with you to start with, as a total novice will barely hypertrophy (due to huge neural adaptation), so there is little to no point doing any accessory work. May as well just stick to the big lifts with starting strength. After this though, the argument is ss / stronglifts do not provide enough direct bicep work, and skullcrushers are superior for hitting the long head of the triceps compared to your standard press movements. As for the lower back / core work, this is a very beneficial thing, and even ss advocates adding in core work after a point.
Jason also notes that he has not provided sets for calves or forearms as this varies considerably person to person, so he leaves it to the trainee to figure out how they need to train them and add them in.
The idea is that, for an aspiring bodybuilder, adding in the accessory work fairly early on will prevent potential imbalances that could be expected if one runs starting strength or stronglifts for 6 months. For the OP, adding in rear delt work is just another such bit of accessory work.

[Daniel0636]

I appreciate the help but I think I'm going to go with jason's 5x5 for a few months and see how it goes.

[Daniel0636]

I'd agree with you to start with, as a total novice will barely hypertrophy (due to huge neural adaptation), so there is little to no point doing any accessory work. May as well just stick to the big lifts with starting strength. After this though, the argument is ss / stronglifts do not provide enough direct bicep work, and skullcrushers are superior for hitting the long head of the triceps compared to your standard press movements. As for the lower back / core work, this is a very beneficial thing, and even ss advocates adding in core work after a point.
Jason also notes that he has not provided sets for calves or forearms as this varies considerably person to person, so he leaves it to the trainee to figure out how they need to train them and add them in.
The idea is that, for an aspiring bodybuilder, adding in the accessory work fairly early on will prevent potential imbalances that could be expected if one runs starting strength or stronglifts for 6 months. For the OP, adding in rear delt work is just another such bit of accessory work.

This really explained things well for me, thanks. I'm gonna go with jason's 5x5. repped. Should be a good workout tomorrow.