It amazes me that some humans beings...

[notorius1]

are so arrogant about their own intelligence and understanding of the universe that they will strut around and denounce a higher being/existence with absolute certainty and go so far as to ridicule people for it but...

- They can't do advanced mathematics
- They can't find the cure to AIDS
- They can't control their involuntary muscles
- They can't keep themselves from growing old
- They can't conquer their own fears
- They can't explain thought
- They can't comprehend their own ignorance

...but ... lets bash Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc...

I mean... surely in that infinite wisdom and understanding of the universe that exists between your two ears MUST be the cure to cancer somewhere?




On a side note. I think both theists and atheists alike often times forget the purpose of most religions...

There are stories of people coming to the Buddha and saying, "I am leaving your teaching because you have not told me whether there is a life after death or whether there is another world."

The Buddha says, "Did I ever say I would give you the answer to these things?"
His follower responds, "No Lord you didn't."
The Buddha says, "Why do you think that I never said that I would give you the answers to these things? Because these are not the things you need to know. The thing that you need to know is how to deal with suffering. Because at this very moment what made you ask that question was suffering."

There is no proof of a creator so there is no reason to think there is one.

[AngryBaby]

what? no...OP. religion is actually the only thing declaring specific certainty in their beliefs. athiesm promotes humble doubt for things unproven. thats it.

what the hell. this knd of misundertsanding of concepts around you is what scares me about humanity.

[faxanadu]

what? no...OP. religion is actually the only thing declaring specific certainty in their beliefs. athiesm promotes humble doubt for things unproven. thats it.

what the hell. this knd of misundertsanding of concepts around you is what scares me about humanity.

Misunderstanding?

We're talking about atheists not atheism... as well as faith not absolutes.

[anonymous]

Buddha never said that, he never existed. some peasant wrote those words in a book thousands of years ago, and you now follow those words.

[faxanadu]

There is no proof of a creator so there is no reason to think there is one.

Ummm... what would sufficient proof be?

[Ludacrits]

This is so ****ing true.. its like people these days think being a atheist makes them better than a religious person... give me a ****ing break.. its like a new fad in this generation..

they don't even bother researching these religions and understanding them... i myself at the age of 16 asked myself what i wanna believe in... and i came to the conclusion after lots of research that Islam is my faith..

[BrotatoChip]

Ummm... what would sufficient proof be?

Any description of a god that isn't filled with logical fallacies and special rules like, "it's beyond your understanding".

brb my god is perfect
brb he is also spiteful and will punish you for questioning his existence
brb even though you are the product of a perfect creator, you have many flaws that he will not only refuse to fix, but will punish you for having

[faxanadu]

Any description of a god that isn't filled with logical fallacies and special rules like, "it's beyond your understanding".

brb my god is perfect
brb he is also spiteful and will punish you for questioning his existence
brb even though you are the product of a perfect creator, you have many flaws that he will not only refuse to fix, but will punish you for having

I'm not sure how this answers the questions: "What would sufficient proof be?"

[BrotatoChip]

I'm not sure how this answers the questions: "What would sufficient proof be?"

If a god refuses to physically show up or do something, then his description has to at least match his actions, or inaction.

You can't have an all loving god that refuses to help his suffering creations.

[Ludacrits]

your prespective on God is wrong thats why.

Why does God say He is only worthy of worship and we must worship him? Not because he benefits from it.. its because we benefit from it.. God is the sustainer of this Universe and whatever else he created.. we need him to sustain us..

As for questioning his existence.. In the Quran God says i have provided you with proofs revalations.. i have givin every single tribe on this earth a messenger to tell you who your true lord is(back then most people worshiped fake gods that had no benefit to them) God is saying that even with these proofs if you still don;t want to believe then you are a closed . a man with no understanding.. your hearts are sealed..

As for man having flaws... In islam God says over and over.. he is oft forgiving.. he tells us to repent and he will forgive.. Man does not have a flaw.. we choose to be flawed.. with our free will that God has givin us he has givin us a choice to follow him or to give in to Iblis.. and to follow his ways.. to be taken in from the desires of this world.. this is all a test.. to see who is worthy of the akira..

[Beastman09]

Op, for the vast majority of Atheists, its not that they don't believe there's a god. Its the fact that its highly improbable that there is one, and to think there is a god because a 6kyo book says so is simply ridiculous.

Personally, i'm an agnostic Deist. I believe there may some kind of force out there that sparked existence, but it doesn't care nor does it know what we're all doing at every waking moment like a santa figure. Its awfully selfish of humans to think we're so important that a god figure would care about what we're doing on this rock out in the middle of nowhere when there are billions of other galaxies and hundreds of billions of planets spread throughout the universe.

Your conclusions are arrived from the assumption that to said being "thinks the same as humans"

[BrotatoChip]

your prespective on God is wrong thats why.

Why does God say He is only worthy of worship and we must worship him? Not because he benefits from it.. its because we benefit from it.. God is the sustainer of this Universe and whatever else he created.. we need him to sustain us..

As for questioning his existence.. In the Quran God says i have provided you with proofs revalations.. i have givin every single tribe on this earth a messenger to tell you who your true lord is(back then most people worshiped fake gods that had no benefit to them) God is saying that even with these proofs if you still don;t want to believe then you are a closed . a man with no understanding.. your hearts are sealed..

As for man having flaws... In islam God says over and over.. he is oft forgiving.. he tells us to repent and he will forgive.. Man does not have a flaw.. we choose to be flawed.. with our free will that God has givin us he has givin us a choice to follow him or to give in to Iblis.. and to follow his ways.. to be taken in from the desires of this world.. this is all a test.. to see who is worthy of the akira..

u wot m8? What about birth defects. Brb you chose to have a genetic defect and live a short life of misery and pain.

[Ludacrits]

do you realize how linear this world would be if everyone was ****ing perfect? LOL wow bro i thought you were smarter than that.. someone being born with a birth defect is a test itself.. if i was born with no legs.. it would be a test for me.. i would be angry.. but if i told myself that This is a test and i must be patient no matter what my situation is then that is true faith.. you look at this world as something so important.. In the Quran God Himself calls earth a joke.. where men compare their children wealth and mutual boosting.. As a muslim earth is only temporary.. AND BTW regarding wHAT Meastro said about How we humans are selfish thinking God cares about us like we are the most important thing.. Allah himself says The creation of the heavens and the earth is indeed greater than the creation of mankind. Islam says that Mankind is not the greatest creation.. there are much greater creations

[Inordinate]

so what is your religion faxanadu? christianity?

[faxanadu]

If a god refuses to physically show up or do something, then his description has to at least match his actions, or inaction.

You can't have an all loving god that refuses to help his suffering creations.

Who defined god as all loving? And i don't recall love being without suffering...

[UberAlles]

are so arrogant about their own intelligence and understanding of the universe that they will strut around and denounce a higher being/existence with absolute certainty and go so far as to ridicule people for it but...

- They can't do advanced mathematics
- They can't find the cure to AIDS
- They can't control their involuntary muscles
- They can't keep themselves from growing old
- They can't conquer their own fears
- They can't explain thought
- They can't comprehend their own ignorance

...but ... lets bash Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc...

I mean... surely in that infinite wisdom and understanding of the universe that exists between your two ears MUST be the cure to cancer somewhere?




On a side note. I think both theists and atheists alike often times forget the purpose of most religions...

There are stories of people coming to the Buddha and saying, "I am leaving your teaching because you have not told me whether there is a life after death or whether there is another world."

The Buddha says, "Did I ever say I would give you the answer to these things?"
His follower responds, "No Lord you didn't."
The Buddha says, "Why do you think that I never said that I would give you the answers to these things? Because these are not the things you need to know. The thing that you need to know is how to deal with suffering. Because at this very moment what made you ask that question was suffering."

what you're basically saying is: i dont have the intelligence to cure aids or do advanced mathematics... therefore my position as an atheist is uninformed

seems legit.

during biblical times, their were tons of prophets, signs of god etc such as talking burning bushes.

what happened to these signs and prophets?

[bigkarl]

people bash the religious because a large percentage of them are batsh*t

[KevJr88]

There's a line between intelligent conversation and argument, but this is bb.com. So no, a very small percentage of those who post here are experts in anything.

A lot of it stems from peoples insecurity in their own beliefs. So they have to disprove another's, then they can feel correct, and their little bubble is unrustled.

Me personally, I don't care what anyones opinion is about my belief. Why would anyone care what some random idiot on the internet thinks?

[Purplekoolaid]

How so?

I'm sure science has some random explanation for incorrupt bodies yet, religious people would call it a miracle from god. Who's right... who's wrong?

This dude ... martyred 1700 years ago. Can still see where is neck was sliced.



What about unexplained healings or thousands of other things?

I'm not saying these are miracles but, when science can't recreate scenarios yet denounces them ... i find humor in that.

Science had about 0 answers to anything 1500 years ago (relatively)

I'm sure you would have been the same idiot claiming 1500 years ago that the earth is flat, the earth was created 6000 years ago, the earth is the center of everything, etc.

A lack of answers by science is not proof for a god; and you inferring that claim is a substantial amount of evidence that you are staggeringly ignorant.

[faxanadu]

so what is your religion faxanadu? christianity?

My religion is simply the truth and i think life itself is the jury on that. There are a lot of valuable lessons to be learned from all people and all religions. It's a shame there are so many people that turn a blind eye to them because god is thrown into the mix.

"Believe in what he tried to teach without rigmarole. Piety is not what the lessons bring to people, it's the mistakes they bring to the lessons." - The Man from Earth

[faxanadu]

Science had about 0 answers to anything 1500 years ago (relatively)

I'm sure you would have been the same idiot claiming 1500 years ago that the earth is flat, the earth was created 6000 years ago, the earth is the center of everything, etc.

A lack of answers by science is not proof for a god; and you inferring that claim is a substantial amount of evidence that you are staggeringly ignorant.

Again i ask: "What is sufficient proof?"

[cmc0108]

OP, do you have a preference to which god I should believe in?

[Purplekoolaid]

Again i ask: "What is sufficient proof?"

Any.

I believe there is a god just as much as I believe there is a teapot orbiting juipter, or that unicorns exist.

Physicists have proved that matter can form from nothing; nothing can spawn matter and anti-matter, where the sum of energy in the system is still 0 (yes, that would imply the energy of the entire universe sums to 0)

Self-replicating RNA has been made in the lab from non-living materials (altohugh this does not technically qualify as life (not sure why), I very much doubt we will not have created life within 100 years. Please don't misconstrue this as me claiming this as a fact

The earth has been shown to be around 4.6 billion years old via geology.

Evolution is pretty much a fact. Most people who don't accept this are not worth arguing as they literally to refuse to believe in evidence

I mean honestly, religion has nothing going for it. The beauty about atheists/agnostic people is; once there is tangible proof of a god, then the non-ignorant of us would accept his existence (which cannot be said for most religious people if the tables were turned)

[JAGERBOY]

I'm suggesting if people think that they are soooooo smart as to understand the nature of the universe in it's entirety then they surely can prevent aging.

Who thinks that?

My point exactly. But there's a lot of people around this forum that know for CERTAIN god exists/doesn't exist and anyone who doesn't is a slack jawed *******

Who says that? Post examples of people that aren't just rustling jimmies/trolling. The majority of atheists never say they know for certain.

[KevJr88]

Any.

I believe there is a god just as much as I believe there is a teapot orbiting juipter, or that unicorns exist.

Physicists have proved that matter can form from nothing; nothing can spawn matter and anti-matter, where the sum of energy in the system is still 0 (yes, that would imply the energy of the entire universe sums to 0)

Self-replicating RNA has been made in the lab from non-living materials (altohugh this does not technically qualify as life (not sure why), I very much doubt we will not have created life within 100 years. Please don't misconstrue this as me claiming this as a fact

The earth has been shown to be around 4.6 billion years old via geology.

Evolution is pretty much a fact. Most people who don't accept this are not worth arguing as they literally to refuse to believe in evidence

I mean honestly, religion has nothing going for it. The beauty about atheists/agnostic people is; once there is tangible proof of a god, then the non-ignorant of us would accept his existence (which cannot be said for most religious people if the tables were turned)

This is dumb bro. Science itself is not based on absolute facts, as you try to make it seem. Science is based on evidences, which mount until we have theories, which mount until we have laws. And a law is simply something that there is so much evidence for, it would be ridiculous not to believe.

There is absolutely nothing in science that is not subject to change or revision, depending on the discovery of things contrary. Once again, there are no, I repeat, no absolute facts in science.

I just love how these so intelligent, scientific atheists love to throw around the herp-sciences-derp, and have no freaking clue what science is!

[Purplekoolaid]

This is dumb bro. Science itself is not based on absolute facts, as you try to make it seem. Science is based on evidences, which mount until we have theories, which mount until we have laws. And a law is simply something that there is so much evidence for, it would be ridiculous not to believe.

There is absolutely nothing in science that is not subject to change or revision, depending on the discovery of things contrary.

I just love how these so intelligent, scientific atheists love to throw around the herp-sciences-derp, and have no freaking clue what science is!

I agree with what you said that science is not based on absolute facts, but any % that is not 0 (which is what science is) is still greater than 0% (which is what religion brings to the table).

"There is absolutely nothing in science that is not subject to change or revision, depending on the discovery of things contrary. " - That is what is so great about science, it expresses humility in it's nature to accept its wrong when evidence is brought forward, which is DEFINITELY not true for religion

[faxanadu]

Any.

I believe there is a god just as much as I believe there is a teapot orbiting juipter, or that unicorns exist.

Physicists have proved that matter can form from nothing; nothing can spawn matter and anti-matter, where the sum of energy in the system is still 0 (yes, that would imply the energy of the entire universe sums to 0)

Self-replicating RNA has been made in the lab from non-living materials (altohugh this does not technically qualify as life (not sure why), I very much doubt we will not have created life within 100 years. Please don't misconstrue this as me claiming this as a fact

The earth has been shown to be around 4.6 billion years old via geology.

Evolution is pretty much a fact. Most people who don't accept this are not worth arguing as they literally to refuse to believe in evidence

I mean honestly, religion has nothing going for it. The beauty about atheists/agnostic people is; once there is tangible proof of a god, then the non-ignorant of us would accept his existence (which cannot be said for most religious people if the tables were turned)

How can proof be provided if you can't stipulate what that proof would have to be? If you can't stipulate that... then there is absolutely nothing that you can't chalk up to as, "Well science just hasn't figured it out yet." So again i ask, "What is sufficient proof."

[miscreant5]

Atheists, agnostics, and non-theists are a minority in the world. As a Hindu, I don't mind them because they serve as a bulwark against Islam and Christianity, religions which seek to impose their dogmas on non-believers through conversion, forced or otherwise, and through their political authority. I am not saying that Hinduism isn't flawed, because it suffers from a great deal of problems as any other religion, but it is a minority religion in the global context. We don't seek converts. We want to be left alone to practice our religion in peace. Judaism is in a somewhat similar position. Hinduism doesn't care if others practice different religions or no religion, because it posits that the path to enlightenment/liberation is accessible to everyone and does not require the worship of any Gods.

Christianity and Islam, on other other hand, lust after the ideal of a world in which every human being adheres to their dogmas. They have the financial resources to spend billions of dollars on evangelical missions to 'harvest souls' and exterminate indigenous religions. The native religions of Africa, South America, and some parts of Asia have been decimated from the face of the world. Even now, evangelical organizations like Pat Robertson's (the crackpot on the 700 club) pour hundreds of millions of dollars into India to destroy the 'Satanic' religion of Hinduism.

In online discussions with atheists, I often see Christians defending the concept of faith as a virtue in general and idealized terms, but when that faith extends to non-Christian religions and non-Christian conceptions of Gods, they are as quick to condemn other religions as atheists are in criticizing their own. Faith is only appreciated if it's subordinated towards Yahweh or the Christian religion.

If I, as a Hindu, testify to my faith in Lord Krishna and his impact upon my life; if I express to them how meditating upon Krishna and His words in the Bhagavad Gita bring an indescribable sense of solace and love for Him within me, and how I believe Krishna to be the Supreme Being, they will reject the validity of my faith out of hand. They won't even countenance the existence, let alone the divinity, of Lord Krishna. But, they will endlessly complain and criticize atheists for not respecting their faith in Yahweh or Jesus.

[RaaR]

I'm suggesting if people think that they are soooooo smart as to understand the nature of the universe in it's entirety then they surely can prevent aging.

They have with Mice, involves injecting stem cells. Seems like only thing holding back alot of science from getting done its some idiotic religious values.

[Ludacrits]

Atheists, agnostics, and non-theists are a minority in the world. As a Hindu, I don't mind them because they serve as a bulwark against Islam and Christianity, religions which seek to impose their dogmas on non-believers through conversion, forced or otherwise, and through their political authority. I am not saying that Hinduism isn't flawed, because it suffers from a great deal of problems as any other religion, but it is a minority religion in the global context. We don't seek converts. We want to be left alone to practice our religion in peace. Judaism is in a somewhat similar position. Hinduism doesn't care if others practice different religions or no religions, because it posits that the path to enlightenment/liberation is accessible to everyone and does not require the worship of any Gods.

Christianity and Islam, on other other hand, lust after the ideal of a world in which every human being adheres to their dogmas. They have the financial resources to spend billions of dollars on evangelical missions to 'harvest souls' and exterminate indigenous religions. The native religions of Africa, South America, and some parts of Asia have been decimated from the face of the world.

In online discussions with atheists, I often see Christians defending the concept of faith as a virtue in general and idealized terms, but when that faith extends to non-Christian religions and non-Christian conceptions of Gods, they are as quick to condemn other religions as atheists are in criticizing their own. Faith is only appreciated if it's subordinated towards Yahweh or the Christian religion.

If I, as a Hindu, testify to my faith in Lord Krishna and his impact upon my life how meditating upon Him and His words in the Bhagavad Gita bring an indescribable sense of solace and love for Him within me, and how I believe Krishna to be the Supreme Being, they will reject the validity of my faith out of hand. They won't even countenance the existence, let alone the divinity, of Lord Krishna.

LOOOOLLL bro are you serious? do you know how many Muslims have been killed by hindus in india? Peace my ****ing ass.. after that i can't even take you seriously anymore