minimum wage $9 lulz

[ProLibertas]

Large companies don't hire people based on what they can "afford." They hire based on what they need. If the work could get done with fewer people, they'd already have fewer people in most cases. As long as the marginal benefit of adding an employee is equal or greater to the marginal cost, they'll keep the employee. There might be some rare instances where the person is providing exactly 7.25/hour worth of benefit and it would make sense to get rid of them if they had to pay more than that, but the increased overall demand from people at the bottom (who spend a larger % of their incomes than anyone else) of the scale would make up for it.

There have actually been studies done where they took a continuous area that happened to be separated by a state line and looked at what happened to jobs when the minimum wage was raised in one state but not the other. There wasn't any job loss.

http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2010/...nimumwagejobs/

So why isn't the increase in demand offset by the increase in prices?
.
Study is also meaningless the economy is to complex for it to show anything.

[Birdy69]

wut???

he's saying to rely on real-world experience and not exact textbook formulas:

I've had dfferent real-world experiences than him. He lives in Chicago; I don't. That's probably why.

[Penile_Dementia]

u wot m8?

You can read books all day long that explain what you could do, but then you go out into the real world and try to apply what you learned and your f*cked! This applies to everything in life, not just economics....carry on living in textbook land...better yet, try looking up "$16 Tril debt" and "10+% unemployment" and see what it tells you to do and then respond to my comment....

Move out of Chicago you ****ing retard.

wut

The guy's complaining about the 'real world' while living in Chicago....

Chicago ain't the real world. It's a sht world.

wut???

he's saying to rely on real-world experience and not exact textbook formulas:

I've had dfferent real-world experiences than him. He lives in Chicago; I don't. That's probably why.

lol what the heck are you talking about?

[Spartacus777]

capitalism - awesome for 1/10th of the population!

Your phone, computer, car, job, etc....

Minimum wage. Mke business pay more and they have to cut the cost somewhere. Usually in labor. So less people get hired for more, raising unemployment while nothing atualyl changes in the economy except the allocation of wealth. Hooray.

[ToPHeR35]

Move out of Chicago you ****ing retard.

What the f*ck does Chicago have to do with anything in this conversation you retard? Go troll someone else


ITT: Chicago isn't in the "real world", yet it's top 3 biggest cities in the US....


u wot m8?

[Penile_Dementia]

What the f*ck does Chicago have to do with anything in this conversation you retard? Go troll someone else

he might be drunk

[chevy72blu]

WE need to put taxes on imports, but we all know how corrupt the politicians are, so it wont happen.

We can manufacture and make a profit in the West, but they make more profits from outsourcing jobs (pure greed).

Right, and that wont harm the lower and middle class that relies on cheap products to survive.

Good call.

[Birdy69]

he might be drunk

Tired. Very tired. He should still move out of Chicago. Chicago's a terrible city.

[ToPHeR35]

Tired. Very tired. He should still move out of Chicago. Chicago's a terrible city.

cool story bro. Your personal opinion about Chicago has no relevance to minimum wage.

[Penile_Dementia]

Tired. Very tired. He should still move out of Chicago. Chicago's a terrible city.

okay, lol. where do you live

[2813308004]

http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...e1-2012-03.pdf

[Penile_Dementia]

ITT: Chicago isn't in the "real world", yet it's top 3 biggest cities in the US....


u wot m8?

Illinois is actually an Illuminati simulation

[ToPHeR35]

Illinois is actually an Illuminati simulation

Illinois doesn't really exist. It's actually Chicago and Chicagoland suburbs...

[Birdy69]

okay, lol. where do you live

Texas.

Chicago is almost as bad as Detroit.

[tts0lid]

So why isn't the increase in demand offset by the increase in prices?
.
Study is also meaningless the economy is to complex for it to show anything.

Because if you can sell your product at increased prices, you already do it regardless of what your costs are. It's not like some CEO is sitting around going "we could charge 50% more for this product if we had to, but since our labor costs are low keep the price where it is."

[BenZowman]

Your phone, computer, car, job, etc....

Minimum wage. Make business pay more and they have to cut the cost somewhere. Usually in labor.

They will cut the cost somewhere. They don't necessarily have to. The issue with raising minimum wage is that it's broad application means it affects businesses that can afford higher wages and ones that cannot, ones that can cut jobs and ones that cannot. That's why a dynamic mechanism like collective bargaining to maintain living wages is usually preferable.

In the case of employee owned firms/cooperatives, minimum wage becomes unnecessary, as labor determines their own wage and what happens to any net income.

[ToPHeR35]

Texas.

Chicago is almost as bad as Detroit.

No sh*t Sherlock, but what does that have to do with minimum wage being raise to $9?

[Sb1995]

$10.25 here in Toronto

[FawkinJuicy]

WE need to put taxes on imports, but we all know how corrupt the politicians are, so it wont happen.

We can manufacture and make a profit in the West, but they make more profits from outsourcing jobs (pure greed).

Right, and that wont harm the lower and middle class that relies on cheap products to survive.

Good call.

Yep, economic ignorance at it's finest. It's not like the foreign companies are going to pay those import taxes, the American customers buying those products are. You think you're protecting American consumers by taxing imports on China, but all you're succeeding in doing is making those products that they are buying more expensive for them. So on net, they are worse off. The same argument applies when people call China a "currency manipulator" (lol if America and Ben Bernanke are not). The beneficiary of China's weakening of their currency IS AMERICA, not China. If our currency is stronger relative to the RMB, that means their products are cheaper for us to buy. The real loser is the Chinese consumer who is basically giving away their produced products to an American for an I.O.U.-nothing piece of paper aka the U.S. Dollar. Repped.

[vulvan]

Texas.

Chicago is almost as bad as Detroit.

How can that be? Both are black majority cities, and we all know diversity is our strength...

[Penile_Dementia]

How can that be? Both are black majority cities, and we all know diversity is our strength...

Chicago is 32% black, 45% white

[RonPaul2012]

Establishing a $9 minimum wage simply elevates the current price floor even further beyond the market dictated wage rate for unskilled labor (which represents most of the workers being paid the minimum wage)

Anytime a price floor is set above the market equilibrium, the quantity supplied will exceed the quantity demanded (this surplus is illustrated by the portion of unemployment)

So not only will this inhibit a business’s capacity to expand and be more productive (economic growth), you’re also creating more unemployment, and preventing those unemployed from gaining valuable skill sets and work experience which would help them naturally move up the ladder.



Lastly, when you're talking about politicians... it's not good to make an appeal to authority. Especially when their end goal becomes buying votes from the uneducated

nice post

[Birdy69]

How can that be? Both are black majority cities, and we all know diversity is our strength...

It's not a race issue, it's a government funded welfare issue.

Those cities are jam-packed with jobless, skill-less people because welfare allows them to to stay there. Abolish welfare and cities such as Detroit and Chicago would be much smaller - their inhabitants would move to different places in search of work, or at least acquire some useful skills; the unskilled jobs already moved along ages ago.

[Xenic]

Because if you can sell your product at increased prices, you already do it regardless of what your costs are. It's not like some CEO is sitting around going "we could charge 50% more for this product if we had to, but since our labor costs are low keep the price where it is."

Yes, because Wal-mart could raise their prices 30% without losing business to Target…

Do you even competition?

[XPmpnII]

I'll take this one:

I'm in favor of abolishing the minimum wage entirely, but if you left it up to the states I would be ok with that. It's more of a half measure, but atleast people would have a choice of where they wanted to live.

I'm for abolishing the minimum wage because it is a destructive law especially for poor / unskilled workers. Believe it or not, some people aren't worth $7/hr and have no skills. If there was no minimum wage, these people could get hired by a company for say $3/hr, learn some basic skills, which which will lead them into higher paid positions in the future. With the minimum wage law in effect, that person will NEVER get a job, because you've priced them out of the labor market. Therefore they are condemned to poverty and living off the government. Minimum wage jobs tend to go to younger unskilled workers who still live at home. The 15 year old living w/ mom or dad w/ no living expenses can live off of $3/hr or whatever. Minimum wage jobs are not intended for the 40 year old laborer w/ 20 years of work experience. After 20 years of working, they should have some kind of set of marketable skills. People right now basically do the same thing w/ unpaid internships in college to gather skills. If there was no minimum wage, employers could not pay everybody $0.50/hr. Businesses compete for labor, and will pay higher prices for the more skilled labor. Singapore has no minimum wage, has a lower unemployment rate than America, and pays higher wages.

Agree, too many idiots on public assistance have smartphones, this makes me rage to no end. It's like get a cheaper phone (or no phone at all) if you can't afford to eat.

Obama is for "helping" the poor (in his rhetoric anyway - his policies actually hurt the very people he's trying to help) because they are the largest voting population. To a politician it's all about 50% + 1 to stay in power. If they demonize rich people, let's say 5% of the population, they'll lose that 5% of the vote, but likely gain a larger percentage of the other 95%.

Ok, I guess here's what I'm not understanding and where you're losing me. I don't understand how you can say that doing away with minimum wage will help get people off government assistance. If anything, I would think it would cause more people to go on it because think about how many people try to support themselves on minimum wage... Hell, even some single parents and families. People are gonna struggle even more if they make less than 7.25. I do understand a lot of your points tho and I do see what what you're saying about forcing people to obtain skills to where they can make more and how minimum wage isn't something that's meant to live on forever or for that 40 yr old with 20 years of work experience, but shouldn't someone willing to get out and work that has to start at the bottom, for whatever reason they may be in that position (and this is excluding young people that live at home because I agree with what you said about them), be able to support themselves if they're trying to climb that ladder and better themselves?

I'm not saying they should live like a king, but at least not living like **** to where they can hardly afford to live off crackers and bologna.

I think the real problem is with these fukking leeches that are out buying the latest iPhone but yet they're chowing down on filet mignon every night thanks to food stamps.

Don't punish the ones trying to better themselves by making it harder to do so

[XPmpnII]

Ok, to add to what I just posted, this is what one of my best friends said in favor of doing away with minimum wage

"I don't agree. *Say a company offered a janitor job for 50 cent an hour.... if nobody needed the money Tht bad, nobody would fill the position. * Therefore, the company would hav to raise the offer to a wage that someone found acceptable. *If somebody accepts a job for $3hr, it's becuz it's better than nobody at all. *It's the same thing that happens now only the "0" is "7.25". Raising the minimum is stupid. *Jobs will be lost, and prices for things will go up. *So anyone that makes more than $9hr will be punished with higher prices and rewarded with nothing * * *Why keep punishing people that strive to b above average? If someone can't get a job that's worth minimum wage it's there own fault anyway.... Anyone with determination, good work ethics, and motivation isn't making minimum wage anyway."

[sensiblebrah]

What would you consider a fair minimum wage?

$1 an hour,

$3 an hour

That amounts to $480 a month

Australia is $15 an hour

UK is almost $10

So we need to pay workers less so the CEO's can continue to make billions?

That's misc for ya

[sensiblebrah]

Large companies hire based on future cash flows.

A raise in minimum wage hurts their future cash flows, thus they hire less people.

Not entirely. Studies show that productivity goes up as the minimum wage rises.

[daxtrader]

You want to raise wages? Then get rid of the minimum wage, creating a shortage of unskilled labor. Companies will then have to raise wages to hire the same people, but they won't mind as companies will be producing a lot more. Our economy will boom overnight like never before.

[OutdoorX]

Raising the minimum wage to 9 dollars an hour would not be such a bad idea as some people point out. Putting extra spending power into the economy would help out everyone.