Have you had success with IIFYM? Like to tell your story in my documentary about it?

[jimsmith9999]

It's unfortunate that becomes a priority over helping people

'Tis the nature of discussions on the Internet, unfortunately.

[Ryan314]

Both of my transformation pics in my profile were done with 100% flexible dieting/IIFYM.

Check them out, you won't be disappoint, srs.

[Mattash2g]

IIFYM is absolutely amazing and I pity those who are still brainwashed convinced otherwise. Its whole concept is based around the fundamental values of nutrition and yet you still get these dumbasses publishing articles talking about healthy calories and stupid crap like that in magazines.

I think I want to go to uni to do food science or something. I want to be able to publish accurate articles that educates the masses and helps reverse the bullchit that has been put out there. Wish me luck lol

[jimsmith9999]

IIFYM is absolutely amazing and I pity those who are still brainwashed convinced otherwise. Its whole concept is based around the fundamental values of nutrition and yet you still get these dumbasses publishing articles talking about healthy calories and stupid crap like that in magazines.

[sarcasm]

You are missing the point. Obviously, it is better to demonize certain foods and refrain from eating them daily - but allow yourself the freedom to binge on them once or twice a week and call it a cheat meal/day.

You should probably also know by now that the body runs on a 24 hour clock, which resets every day at precisely midnight. If you consume a bit of "dirty" food everyday it will have a horrible impact on your general health, but if only eat that "dirty" food in larger quantities once or twice a week everything is fine.

Makes sense, right?

[/sarcasm]

[WonderPug]

[sarcasm]
...
[/sarcasm]

What's scary is even your overt sarcasm pales compared to this:

If you're calling yourself a "bodybuilder", and you're not willing to a few simple things like have a grocery shopping day, eat certain foods, eat something every few hours, follow a list of foods called a "diet", then maybe you need to find another sport.

Real Bodybuilders have no problem doing any of these things, and if you were to put dog **** on that list of foods called a "diet", a real bodybuilder would figure out a way to eat it.

If you can't do these things, it's ok. You're just not a real bodybuilder, that's all. Call yourself a "recreational body shaper", or "fitness enthusiast". Just stop calling yourself a bodybuilder.

And if you're not willing to do these things, or if they're too uncomfortable for you, that doesn't mean you need to scramble to find scientific research to validate your behavior and then call real Bodybuilders "bull****" because they ARE willing to do these things. It's ok, just don't do them.

And it really doesn't matter if eating every 2 hours raises metabolism or not, does it? Because even if we knew it was the premier way to increase BMR, you still couldn't do it, so lets give that a rest.

I'm glad bodybuilding is difficult. It's the reason I chose it in the first place. It's incredibly challenging and therefore incredibly rewarding. If everyone could do it, it wouldn't be as special to me.

And finally, don't presume to tell me what I should and shouldn't have to do within the context of MY sport, a world you've never stepped foot in and about which you know literally nothing. You're in MY world whenever you talk about "bodybuilding". Act accordingly and show some respect. You're in the presence of someone who can do things you cannot and never will.

[alan aragon]

Micronutrient dense foods are healthy, right?
Animal protein is regarded as a healthier source of protein than collagen, right?
Foods rich in fiber are generally healthy, right?

I mean come on. We can talk extremes, we can talk about specific dietary needs, we can talk about how one man's trash is another man's treasure. But there are general guidelines that constitute healthy foods. Even your paragon says that IIFYM should still be composed mostly of healthy, micronutrient-rich foods.

Still can't look at food in isolation as healthy or unhealthy. Sorry. It's logically incohesive, and there's no way around that. Celery is "healthier" than ice cream, right? Guess which one you'd survive longer on if forced to choose only one food in your diet. I hope you get the point.

As for IIFYM, it's a fricking acronym born from noobs incessantly making threads asking if it's okay to have milk, cheese, peanutbutter, fruit, etc when cutting. I am pretty well disgusted with how a shorthand answer to noob questions about perfectly neutral foods was turned into the name of a "diet."

[McLarenGTR]

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...-clean-eating/

great article by AA

[UmWhyBanned]

FYI: Collagen is an animal protein.




I don't consider steak, which is relatively high in trans fats, or extra virgin olive oil, which contains almost no micronutrients,* to be "relatively unhealthy" sans context.





-----------
* Virtually no food contains "zero micronutrients".

Thanks, I could probably run circles around you on the topic of collagen but I'm not here for semantic discussions that this forum has degenerated to.

Ruminant sources of trans fat are generally considered acceptable, but you know what I was referring to (partial hydrogenation and the like). Extra virgin olive oil is a fair example. Again, these are general guidelines I'm outlining. This forum can split the details all they want, but if you have a patient or client who is trying to control X health marker, you give them reasonable guidelines.

[UmWhyBanned]

Here's an example of why your statement isn't entirely correct.

Say you had consumed for the day a diet rich in whole, minimally processed and micronutrient rich foods (which should be the majority of your diet anyway). You have about 600Kcal left over that you need to fill. You have consumed ~2,000mg of Vitamin C by this time, which is the upper limit before pushing harmful levels. Carrots, at this time, would be an unhealthy food. A Big Mac would probably be healthy.

Eating over 2g of vitamin C in a day will not cause harm. Plasma saturation via an oral bolus dose occurs at 500mg. In the case of foods which are digested at a slower rate than pills, you have nothing to worry about. And even if you did exceed plasma saturation, you'd simply excrete the excess. If you really go above and beyond (several grams at once), you may experience pro-oxidation.

[greekmanman]

Your brother 20 weeks out eating the "6 foods that work"

Me 15 weeks out eating ice cream, poptarts, and boxes of mac and cheese on the daylee


Suffice to say IIFYM doesnt need your help defending it when a 19 year old who hasnt even been alive as long as your brother has been bodybuilding, could figure out that you can eat what you want and still get shredded, you'd think all those years of experience he always refers to would be coming in handy right about now.

bodybagged


I love how naturalguy ignores Wonderpug's questioning lolz

[WonderPug]

Thanks, I could probably run circles around you on the topic of collagen but I'm not here for semantic discussions that this forum has degenerated to.

It does seem like you're good at running around in circles.

This forum can split the details all they want, but if you have a patient or client who is trying to control X health marker, you give them reasonable guidelines.

Resonable guidelines would not label individual foods as "good" or "bad" sans the context of dose and total daily intake.

[naturalguy]

I love how naturalguy ignores Wonderpug's questioning lolz

He posts weird random stuff and is constantly trolling me about supplements. I don't post about supplements in the nutrition section.

I'd be happy to answer any questions from any legitimate poster

[UmWhyBanned]

Still can't look at food in isolation as healthy or unhealthy. Sorry. It's logically incohesive, and there's no way around that. Celery is "healthier" than ice cream, right? Guess which one you'd survive longer on if forced to choose only one food in your diet. I hope you get the point.

As for IIFYM, it's a fricking acronym born from noobs incessantly making threads asking if it's okay to have milk, cheese, peanutbutter, fruit, etc when cutting. I am pretty well disgusted with how a shorthand answer to noob questions about perfectly neutral foods was turned into the name of a "diet."

Again, I see what you're saying, but there are always assumptions made when a general set of guidelines is set:

-We expect the context to be consistent with the predominating context of health discussions in Western Society: trying to control marker X, usually elevated due to overeating, lack of exercise, or genetics
-We expect that patient to not have some extreme individual variation from the general population (if they do, then that will be addressed)
-We suspect that they aren't consuming so many micronutrients that their head will explode

I will say that the following are criteria for which guideline-driven food classification falls short:

-Anything that deals with ratios of consumption rather than absolute consumption (e.g. the fatty acid profile of any food cannot be classified [sans trans fats] as healthy or unhealthy per a guideline system. Dietary context matters here)
-Patients with special needs or extreme individual circumstances (addressed above)
-Foods for which beneficial effects are attributed to intrinsic compounds that are not classified as micronutrients (WonderPug's olive oil example was a good one. Olive oil is healthy due to various compounds [e.g. oleuropein] found in the olive plant, but these would not be classified as micronutrients)

[UmWhyBanned]

Oh, and by the way, I'm just playing Devil's advocate here. I am actually an OG IIFYMer (for direct effects on body composition).

[greekmanman]

He posts weird random stuff and is constantly trolling me about supplements. I don't post about supplements in the nutrition section.

I'd be happy to answer any questions from any legitimate poster

lol

[UmWhyBanned]

It does seem like you're good at running around in circles.


Resonable guidelines would not label individual foods as "good" or "bad" sans the context of dose and total daily intake.

Sorry, pugs round around in circles.

Yes, I agree that the absolute amount matters. Daily intake of other foods does not apply to this situation except for in the cases of fatty acids and other ratio-driven criteria.

[WonderPug]

I love how naturalguy ignores Wonderpug's questioning lolz

He posts weird random stuff and is constantly trolling me about supplements. I don't post about supplements in the nutrition section. I'd be happy to answer any questions from any legitimate poster

That's clearly disingenuous.


Here is the actual interaction:

Most of you guys who say there are no healthy or unhealthy foods are really bad at communicating. If you want to take things literally and win arguments on internet forums then what you are saying is not incorrect however the average person wants simple suggestions so that they can make good choices, not everyone wants to count calories and macros (that can be stressful and inaccurate for many people). So while you guys scorn the words "clean" "dirty" "healthy" "unhealthy", these are the words that the average person uses and understands. You can continue to try and change the way people think and speak (the much harder road) or speak their language and help them with good suggestions.

How is this relevant to the audience of this website?

Yes, I agree that the absolute amount matters. Daily intake of other foods does not apply to this situation except for in the cases of fatty acids and other ratio-driven criteria.

Not exactly.

Still can't look at food in isolation as healthy or unhealthy. Sorry. It's logically incohesive, and there's no way around that. Celery is "healthier" than ice cream, right? Guess which one you'd survive longer on if forced to choose only one food in your diet. I hope you get the point.

[UmWhyBanned]

That's clearly disingenuous.




Here is the actual interaction:

I'll answer it for you: many people here want advice to apply to the real world, not advice to give to other forum members.

In the real world, where you're given a small allotment of time to see a patient with X value out of range on their bloodwork, you want to hammer out general guidelines.
Or in the real world, when your friend's parent has X condition and they need dietary advice, you give general guidelines (or maybe you go really in-depth if you're a good friend).

[UmWhyBanned]

That's clearly disingenuous.


Here is the actual interaction:













Not exactly.

Did you read my response to him? If you set guidelines for anything, by definition, they are not accurate for every single situation (rather, they are a "guide").

[UmWhyBanned]

Anyway, I'm done here. The discussion has once again regressed to semantics: how about this situation, or this situation, or this one?

I think all parties here know the truth: no statement can be made in absolutes, but guidelines are a valuable tool.

[WonderPug]

UmWhyBanned (actaully DannySampsonite posting under a new username) is clearly trolling at this point, so I'm done with him.

[UmWhyBanned]

UmWhyBanned (actaully DannySampsonite posting under a new username) is clearly trolling at this point, so I'm done with him.

I posted above saying that I'm playing Devil's Advocate to see how the forum responds, so yes: quite clear. Relevance of my current or previous usernames: none. Do I thank you for saving me from further wasted time at the keyboard? Yes.

[greekmanman]

I'll answer it for you: many people here want advice to apply to the real world, not advice to give to other forum members.

In the real world, where you're given a small allotment of time to see a patient with X value out of range on their bloodwork, you want to hammer out general guidelines.
Or in the real world, when your friend's parent has X condition and they need dietary advice, you give general guidelines (or maybe you go really in-depth if you're a good friend).

I don't think those are good examples.

1)IIRC there is only one(?) medical doctor on these forums.
2)If a friend's parent has X medical condition I would not be giving any advice other than to see a medical/nutrition professional.

An example that would be common and relevant: if a friend or family member inquires about how to best go about losing fat and or gaining muscle via resistance training.

[mike pulcinella]

I have read all the studies. They are as solid as your brother's glutes.

PM me a link to the most convincing study you have read please.

I have read a few since this began. I see some of the merits that you guys speak of. I also see some holes in the research which we will elaborate on soon.

[mike pulcinella]

Your brother 20 weeks out eating the "6 foods that work"

Me 15 weeks out eating ice cream, poptarts, and boxes of mac and cheese on the daylee


Suffice to say IIFYM doesnt need your help defending it when a 19 year old who hasnt even been alive as long as your brother has been bodybuilding, could figure out that you can eat what you want and still get shredded, you'd think all those years of experience he always refers to would be coming in handy right about now.

In the first pic he was NOT yet eating the 6 foods. That was the point of the pic.

However, your pic is impressive. Please contact me to be in my documentary.

[Makween]

In the first pic he was NOT yet eating the 6 foods.

lol

[alexanderberg]

Mike, you're pretty pathetic. I think you're deliberately trying to provoke drama because you're an attention-seeking wh*re with a monetary incentive. I know you're probably trying to build a career... let me ask you this, how's it working out?




"This is truly the most volatile topic in BB right now and it needs to be explored."


What's there to explore? People like your brother and other delusional, arrogant broscientists just won't accept the facts.

[WonderPug]

In the first pic he was NOT yet eating the 6 foods.

You're a funny guy.

[snorkelman]

In the first pic he was NOT yet eating the 6 foods.

[wrhalljr]

It does seem like you're good at running around in circles.


Resonable guidelines would not label individual foods as "good" or "bad" sans the context of dose and total daily intake.

See this is where I believe all those that go to the extreme to support the concept of IIFYM jump off the tracks..."Reasonable" guidelines absolutely would label individual food choices as "good" or "bad" or "better" or "worse"! Even if you just look at the article that was linked above (which I just read in its entirety and would tend to agree with much of it, although not all of it) the overall take from it seemed to be that a healthy "diet" should be composed of 80-90% of "whole and minimally processed foods" i.e. good, healthy foods and 10-20% of "discretionary calories" i.e. bad, unhealthy foods...so if one wants to use the words "reasonable" in context I would frame it as if I asked my daughter which one is "better" or more "healthy" for her an apple or a snickers bar? I know her answer would be an apple and I would assume any reasonable persons answer would be an apple, I would also think that even at her young age she would reasonably assume that her diet shouldn't be comprised entirely of apples or snickers bars either!!...To digress so far in these discussions, or in any general discussion, to the point that there are no good/bad foods or better/worse foods or healthy/unhealthy foods to consume is to, I believe, be completely ignorant of common sense about nutrition...