Smolov Jr. for Bench & Squats at the Same Time?

[adamsz]

Anyone here ever run smolov jr for both bench and squats at the same time to peak for a meet (or otherwise)?

I've got a meet in exactly 6 weeks (march 23rd) and want to peak nicely for it. I'm pretty accustomed to high volume - I ran sheiko 29/37/32/29/37/31/32 going into my last meet. Only other experience i have with peaking for a meet was the sheiko 32 cycle but i want to try something else out.

YES I have used the search function. I searched around for a few hours and found mm55 tried smolov Jr. for Bench and regular smolov for squats, but ended up dropping the Jr. after a week because it was too much. Found another user (SM373) who said he did it about a year ago but there's no real report of how he did it or any specifics.

Anyone ever try this, or think it would work?

Also, for people who have run Smolov Jr., how long did the workouts typically take? Most people say rest in between sets as long as needed, so I was wondering like for just the bench portion how long does the workout take? 1.5 hours? On Sheiko I was used to 2.5 hour workouts so if each one took 1-1.5 hours to do that would be fine time wise.

[zmcdole]

I wouldn't do either and definitely not at the same time. I don't like the idea of overreaching and trying to get gains that won't be permanent or very close to. Once you back off the volume good night sweet gains. Too much risk from injury from training that way especially when you try and do them both.

[FeFocus]

I've never done it but the biggest issue I foresee is the 99% chance of set(s) where you are so mentally exhausted that your mechanics break down horribly and you get injured.

I personally wouldn't do it. The risk is much to great for the reward.

[arian11]

I did Smolov for squat and Smolov Jr. for bench at the same time and I'm weak so don't do it.

[blitz042000]

I haven't done the smolov jr program so I cant honestly say this but it should take less than an hour. Even on your 10x3 day if you take 5 mins. per set that should get you done in an hour including your warm up.

[arian11]

I haven't done the smolov jr program so I cant honestly say this but it should take less than an hour. Even on your 10x3 day if you take 5 mins. per set that should get you done in an hour including your warm up.

10 sets = 9 rest periods inbetween = 45 mins rest using 5 mins rest per set. Throw in warming up before you even touch the bench press and warm up sets to get to your work sets and you could be looking at 1 hour of just rest.

[simp3204]

I haven't done the smolov jr program so I cant honestly say this but it should take less than an hour. Even on your 10x3 day if you take 5 mins. per set that should get you done in an hour including your warm up.

10 sets = 9 rest periods inbetween = 45 mins rest using 5 mins rest per set. Throw in warming up before you even touch the bench press and warm up sets to get to your work sets and you could be looking at 1 hour of just rest.

What arian said. You're also forgetting how exhausted you already are from the other training days. Those rest periods could easily turn into 8-10 minutes, especially if the OP decides to try the program for squats.

[Fuarrrrrk]

Anyone here ever run smolov jr for both bench and squats at the same time to peak for a meet (or otherwise)?

I've got a meet in exactly 6 weeks (march 23rd) and want to peak nicely for it. I'm pretty accustomed to high volume - I ran sheiko 29/37/32/29/37/31/32 going into my last meet. Only other experience i have with peaking for a meet was the sheiko 32 cycle but i want to try something else out.

YES I have used the search function. I searched around for a few hours and found mm55 tried smolov Jr. for Bench and regular smolov for squats, but ended up dropping the Jr. after a week because it was too much. Found another user (SM373) who said he did it about a year ago but there's no real report of how he did it or any specifics.

Anyone ever try this, or think it would work?

Also, for people who have run Smolov Jr., how long did the workouts typically take? Most people say rest in between sets as long as needed, so I was wondering like for just the bench portion how long does the workout take? 1.5 hours? On Sheiko I was used to 2.5 hour workouts so if each one took 1-1.5 hours to do that would be fine time wise.

I am currently running both now - i think it is easier when your making newb gains (When i say that my total was 1050 when i started) because the regularity of training conditions your body so you progress quickly (i went from 130kg squat to 165kg squat after introductory/base mesocycle and bench i went from 130kg to 145kg on a 5 week stint/program - i extended a week). I could not see this being a long term program and after i am finished my the last 1-2 weeks of it now along with my deadlift program i will develop something a little more long term and sustainable.

Workouts typically took me 1.5-2hrs on average for both on same night - Maybe my rest periods were a little light on (i definitely know they were for benching as i was only resting 3-4 minutes unless heavily fatigued). Towards the end of the program now i find it is a little exhausting on the CNS and can certainly make getting a deadlift workout in there hard - i know they say don't deadlift with the program but i have felt no loss in strength or further fatigue from this.

Won't be able to tell if there is anything strength loss from switching to another program as someone in here stated for a few weeks but overall as far as making gains i would say it is likely in 1-2 weeks i will have put 50kg on squat, 20kg on bench & 20-25kg on deadlift - Obviously will provide vids of lifts when they're done, but as i said this is a mixture of newb gains and the programs intensity

[IzzyT]

I'm thinking about trying it. I haven't a single log where someone did it and I've searched through multiple sites. I did see a few people claim to have successfully completed both, but they were all relatively weak, which led me to believe they only survived because they were making noob gains during the program. That is actually why I'm tempted to try it myself. I've lost ~60lbs in the last 6+ months and that has cost me quite a bit of squat strength. I figure if I gained weight during Smolov, I might be able to survive via muscle memory.

[Conquer92]

Kyle Keogh (1355 @148 raw), is currently running Smolov for Squats, Jr. for bench, and does speed pulls every week or so.
***Check out his Youtube. Great videos and commentary.

Its doable, hell, anything is doable. Only one way to find out if it works. Definitely drop your maxes for calculations, and possibly even split workouts to AM PM

[arian11]

I'm thinking about trying it. I haven't a single log where someone did it and I've searched through multiple sites. I did see a few people claim to have successfully completed both, but they were all relatively weak, which led me to believe they only survived because they were making noob gains during the program. That is actually why I'm tempted to try it myself. I've lost ~60lbs in the last 6+ months and that has cost me quite a bit of squat strength. I figure if I gained weight during Smolov, I might be able to survive via muscle memory.

I believe Ben Rice is going to start Smolov in about a week or so for squats. Not sure what he is going to do for bench. It'll be interesting to see what kind of gains he gets.

[Squatr]

Kyle Keogh (1355 @148 raw), is currently running Smolov for Squats, Jr. for bench, and does speed pulls every week or so.
***Check out his Youtube. Great videos and commentary.

Its doable, hell, anything is doable. Only one way to find out if it works. Definitely drop your maxes for calculations, and possibly even split workouts to AM PM

He does speed pulls and heavy pulls. He pulled 575@148 while on double Smolov. He said he'll make his own rules, and you should make you own. If you feel you have the work capacity to do both and it will benefit you more than any other program, or combination of programs, then do it.

[southlifebrahhh]

Kyle Keogh (1355 @148 raw), is currently running Smolov for Squats, Jr. for bench, and does speed pulls every week or so.
***Check out his Youtube. Great videos and commentary.

Its doable, hell, anything is doable. Only one way to find out if it works. Definitely drop your maxes for calculations, and possibly even split workouts to AM PM

got a link to his youtube brah? it didnt come up on google

[IzzyT]

I believe Ben Rice is going to start Smolov in about a week or so for squats. Not sure what he is going to do for bench. It'll be interesting to see what kind of gains he gets.

Yeah, I'm definitely interested as well. I don't think a lot of people run Sheiko at those numbers. I was talking to Ed McLaughlin on Saturday and he apparently got 60lbs out of just the base running it with a 600max. Pretty impressive.

[Conquer92]

He does speed pulls and heavy pulls. He pulled 575@148 while on double Smolov. He said he'll make his own rules, and you should make you own. If you feel you have the work capacity to do both and it will benefit you more than any other program, or combination of programs, then do it.

Exactly. Hes up there with ben rice quality vids. Definitely one of my favorite youtubers

got a link to his youtube brah? it didnt come up on google

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSXm...?feature=watch

[adamsz]

I wouldn't do either and definitely not at the same time. I don't like the idea of overreaching and trying to get gains that won't be permanent or very close to. Once you back off the volume good night sweet gains. Too much risk from injury from training that way especially when you try and do them both.

I see where you're coming from. However, from doing a lot of searching a common thing many people say who ran the program for one of their lifts is that they managed to keep about half of what they put on it in the long term. If I can put 30lbs onto my squat and 20lbs on my bench for a comp and keep 15 + 10 of those respectively I would be more than happy with that.

I've never done it but the biggest issue I foresee is the 99% chance of set(s) where you are so mentally exhausted that your mechanics break down horribly and you get injured.

I personally wouldn't do it. The risk is much to great for the reward.

Good point. From running Sheiko for 7 months I think I've developed a pretty good mental toughness, but on Sheiko my form would definitely break down on some of those last sets from fatigue.

I did Smolov for squat and Smolov Jr. for bench at the same time and I'm weak so don't do it.

What. Care to elaborate? Did you run just the base cycle for squats or the full cycle? Before and after numbers? Average time a workout took?

10 sets = 9 rest periods inbetween = 45 mins rest using 5 mins rest per set. Throw in warming up before you even touch the bench press and warm up sets to get to your work sets and you could be looking at 1 hour of just rest.

So how long did your workouts take when you ran it? I'm fine lifting for 2.5ish hours personally.

[adamsz]

What arian said. You're also forgetting how exhausted you already are from the other training days. Those rest periods could easily turn into 8-10 minutes, especially if the OP decides to try the program for squats.

Other training days? You mean just the cumulative fatigue? If I did it I would just do smolov Jr for squats and bench, and would throw in some rear delt work and shoulder prehab stuff. That and my normal regime of an hour foam rolling / mobility work after each workout.

I am currently running both now - i think it is easier when your making newb gains (When i say that my total was 1050 when i started) because the regularity of training conditions your body so you progress quickly (i went from 130kg squat to 165kg squat after introductory/base mesocycle and bench i went from 130kg to 145kg on a 5 week stint/program - i extended a week). I could not see this being a long term program and after i am finished my the last 1-2 weeks of it now along with my deadlift program i will develop something a little more long term and sustainable.

Workouts typically took me 1.5-2hrs on average for both on same night - Maybe my rest periods were a little light on (i definitely know they were for benching as i was only resting 3-4 minutes unless heavily fatigued). Towards the end of the program now i find it is a little exhausting on the CNS and can certainly make getting a deadlift workout in there hard - i know they say don't deadlift with the program but i have felt no loss in strength or further fatigue from this.

Won't be able to tell if there is anything strength loss from switching to another program as someone in here stated for a few weeks but overall as far as making gains i would say it is likely in 1-2 weeks i will have put 50kg on squat, 20kg on bench & 20-25kg on deadlift - Obviously will provide vids of lifts when they're done, but as i said this is a mixture of newb gains and the programs intensity

Awesome man. Thanks a lot for talking about your experience. This gives me hope.

I'm thinking about trying it. I haven't a single log where someone did it and I've searched through multiple sites. I did see a few people claim to have successfully completed both, but they were all relatively weak, which led me to believe they only survived because they were making noob gains during the program. That is actually why I'm tempted to try it myself. I've lost ~60lbs in the last 6+ months and that has cost me quite a bit of squat strength. I figure if I gained weight during Smolov, I might be able to survive via muscle memory.

Yeah I saw some of the people on here who said they did both and there were 1 or 2 guys who did it but were bodybuilders. However their squat numbers weren't that much lower than mine... One guy was throwing in hypertrophy work for other bodyparts on other days and was lifting 6 days a week. I was like are you serious?!? I'm leaning towards giving it a run so if you wanna wait till March 23rd you can see how me and my workout partner faired with it.

Kyle Keogh (1355 @148 raw), is currently running Smolov for Squats, Jr. for bench, and does speed pulls every week or so.
***Check out his Youtube. Great videos and commentary.

Its doable, hell, anything is doable. Only one way to find out if it works. Definitely drop your maxes for calculations, and possibly even split workouts to AM PM

Fuk yeah man. Just checked out his youtube, strong little bastard. 3 out of the 4 days I lift I have the whole day off so I could definitely split up the workouts if I needed to. Thanks for posting the good info.

I believe Ben Rice is going to start Smolov in about a week or so for squats. Not sure what he is going to do for bench. It'll be interesting to see what kind of gains he gets.

Yeah he is. But irrelevant to this thread since he's only doing it for squats.

He does speed pulls and heavy pulls. He pulled 575@148 while on double Smolov. He said he'll make his own rules, and you should make you own. If you feel you have the work capacity to do both and it will benefit you more than any other program, or combination of programs, then do it.

Pretty good advice I feel like. Reminds me of Pete Rubish's philosophy on training.

[Phedder]

I've done both seperately, one jr for bench, one intro+base for squats and one full 13 weeker for squats. Through all of them I kept the volume of my other lifts fairly high, and managed a fair bit of assistance work as well. Through the 13 weeks I benched twice a week with decent volume and intensity, and alternated weeks of speed pulls and heavy pulls up to 95% some days, after I'd done the smolov squats. Running them both at the same time is something I'm very interested in trying myself, and probably will one day as I have no doubt I could handle it.

I'd say it'd be best if you had run them both seperately beforehand to give yourself a bit more understanding, but if you're truly confident in your ability to handle the volume, and you appropriately lower your maxes a tad I don't see why not.

[arian11]

you run just the base cycle for squats or the full cycle? Before and after numbers? Average time a workout took?

So how long did your workouts take when you ran it? I'm fine lifting for 2.5ish hours personally.

Ran the whole thing. Did base cycle of smolov for squat while only benching 2 times a week. Then during the switching phase, began smolov jr for bench and then it overlapped a bit with the intense cycle of smolov for squats. I ran Smolov for squat a second time later on but didn't do smolov jr for bench, I just benched 2x a week through the whole thing. Squat went from 380 to 400 after base1, to 425 after intense1, then 445 after base2, and finally 460. I believe my bench didn't go up much from smolov jr, 5 or 10 lbs though that isn't bad for how slow my bench moves. I did it with a few other people. Best jump on squat I believe was friend went from 425 to 465 off base at 165 lbs. And another friend went from 290 to 320 on bench at 220 lbs.

Rest times depend on how well you recover. I can show you videos of how miserable the squats were for me compared to my friends. So I laid down and rested quite a bit between sets. I remember some of my workouts towards the end of the base taking 2-3 hours. Bench sets felt much easier and took much less rest between sets, like 2-3 mins rather than the sometimes 10 mins rest for squats. But like I said, I recover like sh!t for heavy lifts. Also, that was when I was training with the FSU club so there were several other people in the squat rack with me which takes time regardless.

Yeah he is. But irrelevant to this thread since he's only doing it for squats.

Like I said, I don't know what he is doing for bench. He might do smolov for squat and smolov jr for bench, which would be relevant. We shall see.

[Newmanzz]

Anyone here ever run smolov jr for both bench and squats at the same time to peak for a meet (or otherwise)?

I've got a meet in exactly 6 weeks (march 23rd) and want to peak nicely for it. I'm pretty accustomed to high volume - I ran sheiko 29/37/32/29/37/31/32 going into my last meet. Only other experience i have with peaking for a meet was the sheiko 32 cycle but i want to try something else out.

YES I have used the search function. I searched around for a few hours and found mm55 tried smolov Jr. for Bench and regular smolov for squats, but ended up dropping the Jr. after a week because it was too much. Found another user (SM373) who said he did it about a year ago but there's no real report of how he did it or any specifics.

Anyone ever try this, or think it would work?

Also, for people who have run Smolov Jr., how long did the workouts typically take? Most people say rest in between sets as long as needed, so I was wondering like for just the bench portion how long does the workout take? 1.5 hours? On Sheiko I was used to 2.5 hour workouts so if each one took 1-1.5 hours to do that would be fine time wise.

I've done it and I dropped smolov meso after 1 week, my elbows couldn't handle all the stress from squatting so many sets followed with going straight into high volume benching

But off-topic, can you tell me some things relating sheiko cycles?
The info on them seem to be very limited to say the least, I've found enough spreadsheets but mostly its about things such as progressing, deciding if you should add weight for the next cycle, how much, which cycles should be run consecutively and how was your progress during your cycles for the 3 big lifts?

[Conquer92]

But off-topic, can you tell me some things relating sheiko cycles?
The info on them seem to be very limited to say the least, I've found enough spreadsheets but mostly its about things such as progressing, deciding if you should add weight for the next cycle, how much, which cycles should be run consecutively and how was your progress during your cycles for the 3 big lifts?

Im curious about this too.

I mean, in theory since each Sheiko number is 1 month long, you can simply use 531 methods and add 5lbs to your "bench input max" and 10lbs to your "squat/DL input max" every month. Not truely test you 1RM for say about 3 months.

[adamsz]

I've done it and I dropped smolov meso after 1 week, my elbows couldn't handle all the stress from squatting so many sets followed with going straight into high volume benching

But off-topic, can you tell me some things relating sheiko cycles?
The info on them seem to be very limited to say the least, I've found enough spreadsheets but mostly its about things such as progressing, deciding if you should add weight for the next cycle, how much, which cycles should be run consecutively and how was your progress during your cycles for the 3 big lifts?

Im curious about this too.

I mean, in theory since each Sheiko number is 1 month long, you can simply use 531 methods and add 5lbs to your "bench input max" and 10lbs to your "squat/DL input max" every month. Not truely test you 1RM for say about 3 months.

Check your PM's

[BigLarge]

I was so mentally exhausted on the Fri/Sat Smolov workouts I couldnt imagine trying to do Smolov Jr Bench afterwards. If I didnt have a job/life... probably would be physically capable with 2-a-day workouts.....

[adamsz]

I've done both seperately, one jr for bench, one intro+base for squats and one full 13 weeker for squats. Through all of them I kept the volume of my other lifts fairly high, and managed a fair bit of assistance work as well. Through the 13 weeks I benched twice a week with decent volume and intensity, and alternated weeks of speed pulls and heavy pulls up to 95% some days, after I'd done the smolov squats. Running them both at the same time is something I'm very interested in trying myself, and probably will one day as I have no doubt I could handle it.

I'd say it'd be best if you had run them both seperately beforehand to give yourself a bit more understanding, but if you're truly confident in your ability to handle the volume, and you appropriately lower your maxes a tad I don't see why not.

This is encouraging to hear Seems like a decent amount of people who ran regular smolov kept up with benching 2x a week. I do feel fairly confident that I would be able to handle the volume and am leaning towards giving it a shot. What's the worst that could happen? I severely injure myself and end up having to drop out of my next meet? lol. If you're interested in trying it out (and anyone else) I would be down to make a group workout log where we log it together. I'm probably going to start it on the 23rd.

Ran the whole thing. Did base cycle of smolov for squat while only benching 2 times a week. Then during the switching phase, began smolov jr for bench and then it overlapped a bit with the intense cycle of smolov for squats. I ran Smolov for squat a second time later on but didn't do smolov jr for bench, I just benched 2x a week through the whole thing. Squat went from 380 to 400 after base1, to 425 after intense1, then 445 after base2, and finally 460. I believe my bench didn't go up much from smolov jr, 5 or 10 lbs though that isn't bad for how slow my bench moves. I did it with a few other people. Best jump on squat I believe was friend went from 425 to 465 off base at 165 lbs. And another friend went from 290 to 320 on bench at 220 lbs.

Rest times depend on how well you recover. I can show you videos of how miserable the squats were for me compared to my friends. So I laid down and rested quite a bit between sets. I remember some of my workouts towards the end of the base taking 2-3 hours. Bench sets felt much easier and took much less rest between sets, like 2-3 mins rather than the sometimes 10 mins rest for squats. But like I said, I recover like sh!t for heavy lifts. Also, that was when I was training with the FSU club so there were several other people in the squat rack with me which takes time regardless.

That is some damn good progress on your squat. Thanks for sharing your experience, it shows it can definitely be done. The 2-3 hour workouts were when you were running both simultaneously right? I also would be running this with a training partner so I think it would be easier to stay motivated and make sure each other's form wasn't deteriorating too much.

I was so mentally exhausted on the Fri/Sat Smolov workouts I couldnt imagine trying to do Smolov Jr Bench afterwards. If I didnt have a job/life... probably would be physically capable with 2-a-day workouts.....

But was that on regular Smolov or Smolov Jr.? 3 out the 4 days I workout I have the entire day off so I can dedicate it 100% to lifting. Also, I know you've run a lot of Sheiko, how would you compare the intensity of Sheiko to Smolov overall?

[IzzyT]

I have a meet on Feb 24th. My next meet after that is June 8th. If I was to try it, I'd want to time the entire Smolov cycle to coincide with the meet so I likely wouldn't start till March 18th. I am very tempted to try it though.

One thing I don't understand is why you wouldn't bench before squats? Squats will leave you lifeless. Bench? Not so much. I feel like this might be easier on the elbows as well.

[adamsz]

I have a meet on Feb 24th. My next meet after that is June 8th. If I was to try it, I'd want to time the entire Smolov cycle to coincide with the meet so I likely wouldn't start till March 18th. I am very tempted to try it though.

One thing I don't understand is why you wouldn't bench before squats? Squats will leave you lifeless. Bench? Not so much. I feel like this might be easier on the elbows as well.

Where in Washington do you live? I definitely wanna come up and do some meets in WA sometime. I met a lot of cool guys from WA at the West Coast Open in Decemeber (Seath, Higa, Randal, etc).

As for the reasoning behind the exercise order, 2 things: 1) When I was searching around the people who said they did both at the same time said they did it that way because the squats were wayyy harder so by the time they got that out of the way, the benching felt much easier. 2) When I bench a lot it makes my shoulders really tight and thus makes it harder for me to get into a good position with my shoulders to squat, sometimes even causing me shoulder pain when I was running Sheiko. I'd rather get to the gym, do some shoulder warmups and mobility, then squat and bench after, as opposed to benching, doing some shoulder stuff after in order to make my shoulders loose enough to get into squat position and then squat, if that makes sense.

[IzzyT]

I see. The first part is basically my exact reasoning for wanting to do bench first, lol. Save the hardest part for last so I can just pack up and go home afterwards. I generally have no shoulder problems with regards to squats or even bench for that matter. That is definitely something to consider though. I'd mostly be worried about my elbows, personally.

I (sometimes) train with Justin Randal in Lynnwood out of Local's Gym. He is coming back from an injury at the moment so he isn't really doing a program as far as I know. We also have pretty different ideologies. I like things like Sheiko, Smolov, etc. He's a Westside guy.

[wakechica]

I have a meet on Feb 24th. My next meet after that is June 8th. If I was to try it, I'd want to time the entire Smolov cycle to coincide with the meet so I likely wouldn't start till March 18th. I am very tempted to try it though.

One thing I don't understand is why you wouldn't bench before squats? Squats will leave you lifeless. Bench? Not so much. I feel like this might be easier on the elbows as well.

Once squats are done... they're done.... it's all downhill from there on in I have to force myself to squat first because otherwise I know I won't give it 100% cos I will have expended energy elsewhere first

ETA: Just seen your above post... totally see your reasoning though, each to their own I guess

[ilovethe80s]

I'm going to be running smolov jr bench stretched out for 4 weeks (starting this week) alongside the Russian squat assault (already started), which is basically smolov's base meso stretched out for 6 weeks. I have some nagging injuries and smolov squat's base meso was quickly driving me to the grave, but just spreading out the days a bit more to unwind a bit works out great for me. Smolov Jr I have run twice before and it worked out well enough for me to want it again. As for time - smolov jr days did not take very long for me most of the time, but I recover very quickly on bench. Squat is a whole other story, the 5 x 7 and 7 x 5 days - I can see that taking well over an hour toward the end.

You would have the best handle on how much volume you can handle. You could get started and then if things are going awry, just try stretching out the days a bit more if you need the extra recovery time? I'm sure if you wait too long between sessions, you're going to lose some of that volume effect and might have a hard time completing your final days. But I see people stretching both smolovs out to 4 weeks with success, and then there is the russian squat assault for 6 weeks which people seem to rave about - so I think just try to finish the program sometime within that time frame but give problematic areas a chance to recover if you feel injuries looming.

I can see the appeal of running both at once (obviously ) but I do think it is a good idea to be really honest or even go into slight underachiever mode with your working numbers/ max. I love smolov for the chance to cement technique changes, I think that sort of thing takes you even farther than the temporarily inflated max.

[Huskarl]

I haven't done the smolov jr program so I cant honestly say this but it should take less than an hour. Even on your 10x3 day if you take 5 mins. per set that should get you done in an hour including your warm up.

When i did it for squas my rest time was 10-15 min per ser