Building without "bulking"?

[john727FL]

Apologies if this is posted in the wrong subforum, this is kind of a general advice thread.

Background on me: I'm 21. I grew up skinny and was that way in my early teens, but around 16 I started getting chubby and by 20 I was on the low-end of obese, it was the culmination of the ****tiest habits imaginable (including being a vegetarian in an overeating, high-carb way), around 19 I abandoned vegetarianism but continued to gain weight.

At 5'11, I was 225 lbs. last June. Decided to do something about my life. Joined a gym and began working out for 2 months, my body fat went down by a percentage and I was still the same weight. I realized the problem was with my diet and I discovered intermittent fasting. Generally tried high-protein and went from Leangains to Fast Five, and spent September through now on Fast Five.

At the start of November, after three months of calorie restriction, IF, and frequent workouts involving mainly cardio, I was 165 lbs. Spent December and January fluctuating give or take a few pounds. Not being content with myself, I decided to drop my weight a little more, and now I'm ~161. I've lost arm flab (something I've noticed when using pectoral flys), my face went from round and a double chin to having well defined features and no visible neck flab even if I press my chin down against my collarbone. My belly got nearly flat, I see little lines of abs, and I could describe my chest as having gone from manboobs to unimpressive but fat-free pecs.

I'll also note that compared to many guys I know, I have huge legs, because even when I was obese I was walking, skating, and cycling all the time. My calves are very well defined and my thighs are muscular too, with some fat still hanging on them but not a whole lot.

Anyway, I want to bodybuild. Now a lot of advice I already know, like immediately ingesting a lot of protein after a workout, cycling through the different parts of body rather than working the same ones every day, and so on.

Problem is, and I know to a lot of you this is going to sound pathetic, I'm scared to death of putting on weight. It's not that I wouldn't be happy to be 175 - 185 and a lot stronger and muscular than I am now, it's just that I'm freaked out about the process. I've read about "bulking and cutting" and I am mainly scared of the bulking part. I probably have had 10, maybe 15 days since August where I've eaten more than 2000 calories and I always feel absolutely disgusted with myself when I do.

I'm scared that regaining a big belly while building arms, or something like that, will destroy my confidence. Time, I have, and I can maintain my lifestyle because I basically switched from losing to maintaining from the start of November and I've been fine since, including the holiday season. I just can't stand the thought of my face getting round again, my belly growing out again, even if it's just a temporary thing that I can fix later.

Do I need to just get over these issues if I want to start building, or would it be possible to build at a slow and steady pace that doesn't involve fat-gain? Do you think my intermittent fasting diet and typical daily calories (1200 on an excellent day, 1800 on a ****ty day, usually 14 - 16 most days) could help me bodybuild if I broke my fast after workouts and increased my protein radically? Should I try creatine, cause I've heard people on it say it makes you retain a lot of water weight and sorry, that freaks me out? Do I have to cut out cardio altogether? (I do a 1.5 mile sprint on the treadmill 5 times a week)

[TheBeastTyler]

The general rule of thumb is that in order to gain muscle, you have to consume more calories than you burn.

[softpounder]

The general rule of thumb is that in order to gain muscle, you have to consume more calories than you burn.

This or unless you want to wait forever while doing a recomposition. You will gain muscle while burning fat at an extremely slow rate. But in order to do so, you will need to eat at maintenance.

[musikguy72]

You should post your concerns and read up in this thread: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=149942713

[Determinednoob]

You will be fine. Do a weight training routine that matches your training level but with not too fast strength progression and just eat ~300 calories over maintenance. Fat gain, if any, will be minimal.

[john727FL]

Thank you, I will skim it for awhile.

TBH, and I really don't mean to sound like an ass even though I know I will, but if I read about a guy my age and height who is a 130 lbs and never has an appetite I'm going to be overwhelmed by envy (again, I don't need to be told this is an awful thing to say, I already know and feel guilty about it) so I don't know, I might end up feeling worse.

It's not like I'm unhealthy now. I mean, I'm not hugely strong, I can do three pull-ups in a row, I can run a 7 minute mile, which I know isn't hugely impressive but it's such a step up from where I was. I don't know how much I can bench in a few reps, I bench 65 lbs. in 15 reps, so IDK...

I take it I can ask for advice on something, is it generally better to bench higher weight and lower reps? I don't know what I'm capable of, but I intend to find out. Should I try for 3, 5? Maybe just see how much I could bench in a single lift just to get a base line (if I had to take a wild ass guess, probably around 100)

[TheBeastTyler]

This or unless you want to wait forever while doing a recomposition. You will gain muscle while burning fat at an extremely slow rate. But in order to do so, you will need to eat at maintenance.

Yeah, like I've been working out for about four years, but for the vast majority of that time I've mostly been doing endurance stuff and cardio (therefore burning more calories than I consume most of the time), so my benching only went from 75 pounds to 205 pounds in like four years.

[john727FL]

You will be fine. Do a weight training routine that matches your training level but with not too fast strength progression and just eat ~300 calories over maintenance. Fat gain, if any, will be minimal.

I suppose I can get over my stupid issues for a week to try to eat 2000 even on strength days. I'll post progress in a week here, I guess.

[Stev05]

I suppose I can get over my stupid issues for a week to try to eat 2000 even on strength days. I'll post progress in a week here, I guess.

You aren't going to gain 50 pounds of fat overnight. You should get on a good beginner program, something like All Pros in the stickies, and run it while eating at a small surplus. It's a very reasonably paced workout, so you could eat only enough to gain about half a pound a week and be very successful on it. Just be diligent about tracking calories, macros and also tracking your weight each week and taking weekly measurements (waist, chest, arms, etc).

[magic15]

Problem is, and I know to a lot of you this is going to sound pathetic, I'm scared to death of putting on weight. It's not that I wouldn't be happy to be 175 - 185 and a lot stronger and muscular than I am now, it's just that I'm freaked out about the process. I've read about "bulking and cutting" and I am mainly scared of the bulking part. I probably have had 10, maybe 15 days since August where I've eaten more than 2000 calories and I always feel absolutely disgusted with myself when I do.
Do I need to just get over these issues if I want to start building, or would it be possible to build at a slow and steady pace that doesn't involve fat-gain?

You do need to get over the fear of putting on fat. No matter how hard you try to eat whatever foods you think will make you put on the least fat, in the end, some of the weight you gain from a bulk is fat. Then you diet back down and your left with the net gain. You have to allow yourself to go into a mass building phase. Stop feeling ashamed when you eat a lot. New mindset.

[hatman5700]

First off - great job on losing all of the extra weight and building up a body that you are proud to see in the mirror when you wake up.

The tone of your posts boast self-awareness (a good thing!) but also suggests doubt & hesitation over some stuff that ain't that big a deal. Since you seem like a smart guy, don't let the mere idea of gaining weight again stop you from trying some of the best proven practices of bodybuilding (i.e. dieting in a caloric surplus).

Attack these fears you have with preparation, so that you can't possibly have further hesitations because you'll have already accounted and calculated for them. Use math - it's always certain.

Start here for Nutrition: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981
-Calculate your calories to maintain your weight
-Then as per the suggestion of many here, give yourself a small 5-10% increase for caloric surplus; this should only be 300-500 calories over your daily requirement, will give your body what it needs to grow muscle
-Take note of your macros: grams Protein/Carbs/Fat, use a tracking tool to get an idea of what you are consuming on a daily basis (myfitnesspal.com)

As for a Workout:
-Define your goals, if it is truly bodybuilding then you can't go wrong with Starting Strength, All Pro, StrongLifts...
-There are also other cutting programs if you want to get skinnier & lean, but that didn't sound like your goal.

You already have demonstrated the ability to lose weight when needed, so you should have no fear maintaining your weight at a slight caloric surplus while attacking an intense workout program.

Do some research on other stickies floating around and you'll find your hesitations disapearing more and more.

[Willill]

I can totally relate to you, I used to be extremely fat and I was self conscious about it. I got really skinny then gained weight again, now I'm losing again and I can see where the fear comes from. You never want to go there again, and when I see guys that as tall as I am but weigh 150 lbs, I'm like wtf.
Then again, you have to understand that athletes, bodybuilders etc, might weigh higher, but it's muscle. It's not fat, it's not about the scale, it's about body fat.

So when you do bulk, and you are doing it right, you'll get over the fear, because you are not going to have those flabs or guts, you'll have well defined muscles.

I'm not trying to bodybuild, so I'm still in that 'fear' phase, but I think wanting to do it is a good way to get over the fear imo

There are various work out and diet routine here, pretty good stuff around this site.

Just my 2 cents

[johndouglas78]

You have to consume more calories than you burn

[john727FL]

Thanks everyone, especially for being so understanding cause I know my psych issues are ridiculous for the most part and defy common sense. I'm going to try all-pro.

I think I want to stay on Fast Five because it makes me feel like I'm in control and adhering to my fast/eat schedule is really helpful. I've done reading on this, do you think the best time to break a fast is right after the workout? Like, to go the gym in the 17th hour of the fast and then after 19, start eating a bunch right after?

Because I have heard from a lot of people the best time to down the protein shake or whatever is right after you're done at the gym.