Can someone explain to me how guns = freedom?

[m0ridin]

i've presented plenty, you're simply too stupid to know how to navigate through pages of a thread

now onto the business of your lack of an avi and (almost inevitable) lack of aesthetics

"Herp derp, Switzerland doesn't count, I'm ugly"

[BrocepCurls]

Of course there is more to that than standard of living culture, immigration and history of xenophobia contribute to it as well.

but not guns, no way would it EVER be guns

guess what, we have immigration and xenophobia in the Uk

[miscsleepdoctor]

BRB media sensationalism only happens in the US

lol okay

u do know the rise the cable and satellite tv means much of the same media outlets u see are the same ones we see?

Really, you have 30 out of 60 channels showing these pictures, 15times an hour?






Even if you do, the point is moot, because in the last few weeks we have seen school bombings in other parts of the world

I'm sure people in Nazi Germany were saying the same thing before hitler

all the more reason to have guns then, amiright?

[miscsleepdoctor]

coming from the jackass who cant spell fallacies

BRB I said I won an argument, because I said I won it must mean I won!! Of course I am right, the fact I can count to potato proves such!!!


Jackass

oh look, more ad hominem attacks. While still not acknowledging valid arguments I have presented, that you cannot refute.


furthermore, spell check on my comp changed it to fallacy's....srs.

and not a single fcuk was given, because spelling is just a tool used to present arguments/ points of view. If you understand what it is im trying to communicate, why is the spelling error relevant? Oh, thats right, it isnt. You are trying to retract from my points with ad hominems

[Jackslap]

Did not read whole thread. Someone please tell me that OP was decimated by logic and someone called him out on citing an UZI as a common weapon one might find in an American household lmao! And how handguns CAN be semi automatic even though he seems to think they aren't. Lol BRB every handgun is a revolver.

OP= troll or dumb chit. Possibly both.

[Jeffreezy]

but not guns, no way would it EVER be guns

guess what, we have immigration and xenophobia in the Uk

Because it's not. Consider this, over the last two decades our homicide and violent crime rate has been cut in half, while that happened gun laws have laxed and gun ownership rates have risen. If what you're implying is true, why isn't our homicide rate higher than it's ever been before?

[BrocepCurls]

impossible to argue with americans because you will literally blame every little nonsensical thing in the world, before blaming your beloved firearms, even though they are the root problem for you having 4x as many murders as every other civilised nation on dis here planet

[Nomashib]

oh look, more ad hominem attacks. While still not acknowledging valid arguments I have presented, that you cannot refute.


furthermore, spell check on my comp changed it to fallacy's....srs.

and not a single fcuk was given, because spelling is just a tool used to present arguments/ points of view. If you understand what it is im trying to communicate, why is the grammatical error relevant? Oh, thats right, it isnt. You are trying to retract from my points with ad hominems

I have presented plenty, so has brocepcurls

I use your inability to spell just to highlight the irony of calling someone else uneducated, fallacies isnt exactly the dictionary's most complex of words

[DMAXbrah]

I am not an advocate of gun control whatsoever. Criminals don't use licensed, legal guns etc.

But I never understood why so many people believe that the relatively lax American gun laws make the US more free than any other country

The threat of a tyrannical government fuking up the people is no longer a relative argument. brb bunch of guys with glocks vs. the police, military, etc

In Canada and most other Western countries you can obtain guns for hunting, etc anyway

I never understood why being able to carry a concealed weapon makes Americans more free than anyone else

Also, wtf does any civilian ever need to own a semi automatic weapon? Understand a handgun for protection but why does a citizen need an uzi?

I usually don't get into these, but I'll answer your questions the best I can.

1. How is a tyrannical government no longer a relative argument? Look at Germany only 70 years ago. I bet the Jews wish they had their guns. No, I don't believe the US will ever come to something like that, but that doesn't mean I'll give up my firearms. As for effectiveness against military and police, how many soldiers do you think are going to fire on their own countrymen? I'd be willing to bet a significantly higher percentage of soldiers believe in the right to bear arms than the general populace. Regardless, look at every major conflict we've been in in the last 50 years. The majority of forces we've fought have been nothing more than sheep herders and farmers with AKs. True, they have a few pieces of heavy weaponry every now and then. But a strong motivation to
defend their homeland allows them to put the world's greatest military back on its heels.

2. Yes, you can. However, they don't have a 2nd Amendment that clearly states "shall not be infringed" and what you can get there is severely limited.

3. Carrying a concealed weapon doesn't make us more free. The right to do so makes us more free. Not to mention, it makes me feel much safer. I'm an extremely non-confrontational, polite guy. I've never gotten in a fight with anybody and do my best to not ever do so. There are crazy people out there, though, that will kill you for the change in your pocket. I enjoy knowing I am capable of protecting myself, if need be. I pray I never have to, but it someone tries to harm me or my loved ones, they'll have my Glock 26 trained on them in less than a second. And if you think people carrying concealed handguns are lunatics, look up some statistics. People with licenses/permits to carry concealed handguns are responsible for committing less crimes than even police officers. If I remember correctly, every mass shooting since the 50s, besides the Gabrielle Giffords incident, happened in a place where concealed carry was illegal. I personally think the world is much safer with law abiding citizens carrying weapons.

4. There shouldn't have to be a need to be able to own something. However, I feel much safer carrying a semi-automatic handgun than I would a revolver that is a little slower to fire, is slower to reload, and has a much lower capacity. I'd be willing to bet most muggings take place with multiple attackers. Those 5 rounds of .38 in the S&W 642 in your pocket don't seem like much with 3 guys coming at you. Try shooting a herd of hogs that are destroying your crops (and, consequentially, you family's income) with a lever action. I much prefer 30 rounds on tap with my AR.

The rights of many should not be taken away due to the actions of a few. I was disgusted and horrified by the actions in Connecticut as anyone else. I wish that sorry SOB hadn't offed himself so maybe someone else could have given him the torture he deserved. But I don't think the rights of every other American should be limited due to this. Gun control has never worked, nor will it ever, simply because criminals do not obey the law.



A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

-2nd Amendment to the US Constitution

[miscsleepdoctor]

impossible to argue with americans because you will literally blame every little nonsensical thing in the world, before blaming your beloved firearms, even though they are the root problem for you having 4x as many murders as every other civilised nation on dis here planet

It is impossible to argue with ignorant fools who have already come to the CONCLUSION that guns are the CAUSE, all the while believing they know what is going on in our country better than they do and are completely unwilling to look at others points of view/ understanding of statistics 101

[BrocepCurls]

Because it's not. Consider this, over the last two decades our homicide and violent crime rate has been cut in half, while that happened gun laws have laxed and gun ownership rates have risen. If what you're implying is true, why isn't our homicide rate at it's highest it's ever been before?

I have stated many times, at the beginning of this whole argument, that im not arguing about guns IN AMERICA 2013 specifically. OP asked a very generic question about guns

step 1: Compare america to every other civilised nation
step 2: acknowledge that americas gun murder rate AND OVERALL murder rate are much much higher than all the others
step 3: acknowledge that there is actually not a great deal of difference between america and those other nations, in terms of demographics, culture, wealth, standard of living, immigration, media etc etc
step 4: realise that the difference is MOSTLY accounted for by your massive gun ownership. not knives, bombs, cars, pipes. but GUNS

peace brahs

[Nomashib]

impossible to argue with americans because you will literally blame every little nonsensical thing in the world, before blaming your beloved firearms, even though they are the root problem for you having 4x as many murders as every other civilised nation on dis here planet

no of course when you come at their arguments it must be the immigrants fault. Oh and yeah...somehow urban youth and gang crime isnt as important is real crimeso it cant be counted. So, of course, when u remove 30 states, exclude crime and demographics which they handpicked as ones not suitable to include then of course they have a crime rate much lower than most other western nations


Similarly I wanted to let u people know that I can complete a 100m sprint quicker than usain bolt. Provided I have a 30m head start.

[Jackslap]

impossible to argue with americans because you will literally blame every little nonsensical thing in the world, before blaming your beloved firearms, even though they are the root problem for you having 4x as many murders as every other civilised nation on dis here planet

Age 19:

Status: Probably never fired a gun and has probably never served in the .mil.

I've never seen a gun be the root of a problem, only the dumbass operating it.

[m0ridin]

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

Oh, yeah. Virginia has seen firearms sales rise 73% while gun-related violent crime dropped 24%. http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/lo...9bb30f31a.html

Just ask the CDC and National Academy of Sciences how well gun control works...

In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books and 43 government publications evaluating 80 gun-control measures. Researchers could not identify a single regulation that reduced violent crime, suicide or accidents. A year earlier, the Centers for Disease Control reported on ammunition bans, restrictions on acquisition, waiting periods, registration, licensing, child access prevention and zero tolerance laws. CDC's conclusion: There was no conclusive evidence that the laws reduced gun violence.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-18/o...?_s=PM:OPINION

CDC study: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm

National Academy of Sciences study: http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309091241

That's right: not a single law or gun control measure that could be credibly linked to a reduction in violent crime, suicides or accidents.

Also, here's a link to the Department of Justice study that failed to demonstrate the effectiveness of the assault weapons ban: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/re..._final2004.pdf

And let's not forget ole Switzerland.

You know, the same country that requires all males, with the exception of those deemed incompetent, to own an assault rifle and also has the second lowest (pretty sure it's the second) crime rate.

Let's also visit Australia

It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

Back in 1994, when the U.S. Congress was debating whether to ban "assault weapons," a talk show host asked Senator Bill Bradley of New Jersey, a sponsor of the ban, whether guns cause crime. The host noted that, in Switzerland, all males are issued assault rifles for their militia service and are required to keep them at home, yet little crime exists there. Bradley responded: "My guess is--Swiss are pretty dull--so my guess is that probably didn't happen."

Actually, for those who think that target shooting is more fun than golf, Switzerland is anything but "dull." By car or by train, you see shooting ranges all over the country, but only a few golf courses. If there is a Schuetzenfest in town, you will find rifles slung on hat racks in restaurants, and you will encounter men and women, old and young, walking, biking, and taking the tram with rifles over the shoulder, to and from the range. They stroll right past the police station and no one bats an eye (in the U.S. a SWAT Team might do you in).

Tourists--especially those from Japan, where guns are banned to all but the police--think it's a revolution. But shooting is really just the national sport, although it has the deadly serious function of being the backbone of the national defense.

Although there is more per capita firepower in Switzerland than any place in the world, it is one of the safest places to be. To the delight of Americans who support the right to keep and bear arms, Switzerland is the proof in the pudding of the argument that guns don't cause crime.

According to the UN International Study on Firearm Regulation, in 1994 the homicide rate in England (including Wales) was 1.4 (9% involving firearms), and the robbery rate 116, per 100,000 population. In the United States, the homicide rate was almost 9.0 (70% involving firearms), and the robbery rate 234, per 100,000. England has strict gun control laws, ergo, the argument goes, the homicide rate is far lower than in the United States. However, such comparisons can be dangerous: in 1900, when England had no gun controls, the homicide rate was only 1.0 per 100,000.

Moreover, using data through 1996, the U.S. Department of Justice study Crime and Justice concluded that in England the robbery rate was 1.4 times higher, the assault rate was 2.3 higher, and the burglary rate was 1.7 times higher than in the United States. Only the murder and rape rates in the United States were higher than in England.

The UN Study omits Switzerland from its comparative analysis. The Swiss example contradicts the Study's hypothesis that a high incidence of firearm ownership correlates with high violent crime.

The Swiss Federal Police Office reports that, in 1997, there were 87 intentional homicides and 102 attempted homicides in the entire country. Some 91 of these 189 murders and attempts involved firearms (the statistics do not distinguish firearm use in consummated murders from attempts). With its population of seven million (which includes 1.2 million foreigners), Switzerland had a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000. There were 2,498 robberies (and attempted robberies), of which 546 involved firearms, giving a robbery rate of 36 per 100,000. Almost half of these criminal acts were committed by non-resident foreigners, which is why one hears reference in casual talk to "criminal tourists."

Sometimes, the data sounds too good to be true. In 1993, not a single armed robbery was reported in Geneva.

In a word, Switzerland, which is awash in guns, has substantially lower murder and robbery rates than England, where most guns are banned.

More: http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/artic...ime-swiss.html

* Roughly 16,272 murders were committed in the United States during 2008. Of these, about 10,886 or 67% were committed with firearms.[11]

* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 0.5% of households had members who had used a gun for defense during a situation in which they thought someone "almost certainly would have been killed" if they "had not used a gun for protection." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 162,000 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."[12]

* Based on survey data from the U.S. Department of Justice, roughly 5,340,000 violent crimes were committed in the United States during 2008. These include simple/aggravated assaults, robberies, sexual assaults, rapes, and murders.[13] [14] [15] Of these, about 436,000 or 8% were committed by offenders visibly armed with a gun.[16]

* Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18]

* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 3.5% of households had members who had used a gun "for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 1,029,615 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."[19]

* A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.[20]

* A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]

• 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
• 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"[22]

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

[MrZombieSteve]

I am not an advocate of gun control whatsoever. Criminals don't use licensed, legal guns etc.

But I never understood why so many people believe that the relatively lax American gun laws make the US more free than any other country

The threat of a tyrannical government fuking up the people is no longer a relative argument. brb bunch of guys with glocks vs. the police, military, etc

In Canada and most other Western countries you can obtain guns for hunting, etc anyway

I never understood why being able to carry a concealed weapon makes Americans more free than anyone else

Also, wtf does any civilian ever need to own a semi automatic weapon? Understand a handgun for protection but why does a citizen need an uzi?

Freedom can simply be defined as : the right to be free to do what you do, so long as you don't infringe on others equal rights to also do what THEY do. e.g. I should be allowed to have guns, so long as they're controlled and monitored lest they interfere with others otherwise unrelated to guns. i.e. I can do something so long as me doing so doesn't stop you from doing what you're free to do, so long as e.t.c.

Ya feel me?


sidenote - have you ever fired a semi automatic rifle? it's pretty awesome. Also, extreme hobbyists exist in almost every field of interest. It's not unthinkable that a gun enthusiast would want to own all things gun oriented. He shouldn't be allowed to off the slight chance something might happen maybe? I don't agree. Amurica isn't more free than any other first world country. Not in this day and age. More openly opinionated? maybe. Not more free though.

Whoever doesn't think I can go to any state in the USA and within the next few days get an unlicensed gun for cash is pretty green.

[miscsleepdoctor]

I have presented plenty, so has brocepcurls

I use your inability to spell just to highlight the irony of calling someone else uneducated, fallacies isnt exactly the dictionaries most complex of words

I have successfully argued everyone of your points, and have made points that you have not yet refuted/ cannot refute.

You are using one spelling mistake as a means to commit an ad hominem attack as a means to somehow detract from my very valid points, points that you cannot refute..

/argument

[m0ridin]

but not guns, no way would it EVER be guns

guess what, we have immigration and xenophobia in the Uk

And not nearly the same amount of gangs and drugs.

But no way, it could NEVER be the individual.

Roughly 75% of gun homicides in the USA are gang-related.

[m0ridin]

impossible to argue with americans because you will literally blame every little nonsensical thing in the world, before blaming your beloved firearms, even though they are the root problem for you having 4x as many murders as every other civilised nation on dis here planet

Yep, definitely your period.

You're also immune to facts, it would seem.

[BrocepCurls]

I have successfully argued everyone of your points, and have made points that you have not yet refuted/ cannot refute.

You are using one spelling mistake as a means to commit an ad hominem attack as a means to somehow detract from my very valid points, points that you cannot refute..

/argument

last point

you havent argued ****. your points arent in the least bit valid

you still havent actually explained to me how "american media glorifies violence more" or how "news shows violence more" or how "immigration affects US more"

you brought up some bull**** points which do NOT DIFFERENTIATE AMERICA FROM ANY OTHER MODERN NATION IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM

and claimed THOSE are major factors in your gun crime. NOT, ofcourse, the fact that your gun ownership completely eclipses every other country's. That is a clear, statistical, and identifiable difference which you refuse to acknowledge because you have no argument whatsover

And not nearly the same amount of gangs and drugs.

But no way, it could NEVER be the individual.

Roughly 75% of gun homicides in the USA are gang-related.

so is a ****load of violent crime/homicides here

Yep, definitely your period.

You're also immune to facts, it would seem.

your gun will not make up for your lack of size downstairs and general idiocy no matter how much you want it to

[Nomashib]

I have successfully argued everyone of your points, and have made points that you have not yet refuted/ cannot refute.

You are using one spelling mistake as a means to commit an ad hominem attack as a means to somehow detract from my very valid points, points that you cannot refute..

/argument

except I have refuted them

lol at your use of "/argument", "I win the debate" and other elementary school playground argument tactics in a desperate and futile attempt to wield some kind of intellectual and/or argumentative authority. First sign of woman logic user aka. dumbass. I'm out.

[Jeffreezy]

I have stated many times, at the beginning of this whole argument, that im not arguing about guns IN AMERICA 2013 specifically. OP asked a very generic question about guns

step 1: Compare america to every other civilised nation
step 2: acknowledge that americas gun murder rate AND OVERALL murder rate are much much higher than all the others
step 3: acknowledge that there is actually not a great deal of difference between america and those other nations, in terms of demographics, culture, wealth, standard of living, immigration, media etc etc
step 4: realise that the difference is MOSTLY accounted for by your massive gun ownership. not knives, bombs, cars, pipes. but GUNS

peace brahs

Source on America being incredibly close in culture, immigration, demographics and standard of living to Western European countries.

[miscsleepdoctor]

no of course when you come at their arguments it must be the immigrants fault. Oh and yeah...somehow urban youth and gang crime isnt as important is real crimeso it cant be counted. So, of course, when u remove 30 states, exclude crime and demographics which they handpicked as ones not suitable to include then of course they have a crime rate much lower than most other western nations


Similarly I wanted to let u people know that I can complete a 100m sprint quicker than usain bolt. Provided I have a 30m head start.

no of course when you come at their arguments it must be the immigrants fault. <- Strawman
Oh and yeah...somehow urban youth and gang crime isnt as important is real crimeso it cant be counted <- lack of foundational understanding of the point. The point being that they are criminals and will break the law regardless of gun laws..
So, of course, when u remove 30 states, exclude crime and demographics which they handpicked as ones not suitable to include then of course they have a crime rate much lower than most other western nations <- This point isnt even relevant, the states with the strictest gun control also has the highest gun death....

[m0ridin]

Harvard study...

This Article has reviewed a significant amount of evidence from a wide variety of international sources. Each individual portion of evidence is subject to cavil—at the very least the general objection that the persuasiveness of social scientific evidence cannot remotely approach the persuasiveness of conclusions in the physical sciences. Nevertheless, the bur‐ den of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, espe‐ cially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra.149 To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world.

Over a decade ago, Professor Brandon Centerwall of the Uni‐ versity of Washington undertook an extensive, statistically sophis‐ ticated study comparing areas in the United States and Canada to determine whether Canada’s more restrictive policies had better contained criminal violence. When he published his results it was with the admonition:

If you are surprised by [our] finding[s], so [are we]. [We] did not begin this research with any intent to “exonerate” hand‐ guns, but there it is—a negative finding, to be sure, but a nega‐ tive finding is nevertheless a positive contribution. It directs us where not to aim public health resources.150

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf

[Krazshni]

phukking Lol @ the idea of being anti-gun at all or wanting more gun control

fyi places in the us with the strictest gun control tend to have the highest crime
-LA
-DC
-Baltimore
-Chicago
-etc.

Gun History: We definitely Need more Gun Control Laws. I'll Take Switzerland's.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20,000,000 dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1..5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated..

No thanks Jeff. I'd rather have a few more gun deaths mainly perpetrated by illegally obtained guns in low income neighborhoods than give up my gun rights.

damn OP, my fragile sensibilities are deeply offended that such oblivion EVEN EXISTS

the ability to organize your peers to end dictatorial actions IS still relevant & IS a realistic possibility within any future timeframe

NO CENTURY passes peacefully

the type of ignorance you perpetuate, even though you "ask for explanations" is just annoying as phuck.

like, how are you unable to PIECE TOGETHER THE PUZZLE ON YOUR OWN!?!?!!? >[

for instance, what if Obamacare prompts the imprisonment of many for refusal to pay the insurance mandate?

you think people should just let that happen?


do you even revere ANYTHING about the founding fathers?

"those who give up liberty for safety deserve neither" <-- BF, ETC ETC ETC ETC





IIRC, "assault rifle", high caliber weapons are responsible for 1% or less of gun fatalities

the "assault weapons ban" of the clinton era did nothing to inhibit firearm fatalities

this is the type of BULLSH17 that is propagated just like the Military Commissions Act, the Patriot Act, the 2012 NDAA, SOPA/PIPA/etc, TSA airport body scanners



it's all BUREAUCRATIC IGNORANCE that adds bloated costs WE CANT AFFORD.

ignorance.

[BrocepCurls]

Source of America being incredibly close in culture, immigration, demographics and standard of living to Western European countries.

source of it being different enough from the UK to account for 200x more gun murders per year

[m0ridin]

last point

you havent argued ****. your points arent in the least bit valid

you still havent actually explained to me how "american media glorifies violence more" or how "news shows violence more" or how "immigration affects US more"

you brought up some bull**** points which do NOT DIFFERENTIATE AMERICA FROM ANY OTHER MODERN NATION IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM

and claimed THOSE are major factors in your gun crime. NOT, ofcourse, the fact that your gun ownership completely eclipses every other country's. That is a clear, statistical, and identifiable difference which you refuse to acknowledge because you have no argument whatsover



so is a ****load of violent crime/homicides here



your gun will not make up for your lack of size downstairs and general idiocy no matter how much you want it to

So is... lmao. And you just referred to my idiocy. That's rich.

And no, you don't have anywhere near the amount of gang activity we do.

[miscsleepdoctor]

last point

you havent argued ****. your points arent in the least bit valid

you still havent actually explained to me how "american media glorifies violence more" or how "news shows violence more" or how "immigration affects US more"

you brought up some bull**** points which do NOT DIFFERENTIATE AMERICA FROM ANY OTHER MODERN NATION IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM

and claimed THOSE are major factors in your gun crime. NOT, ofcourse, the fact that your gun ownership completely eclipses every other country's. That is a clear, statistical, and identifiable difference which you refuse to acknowledge because you have no argument whatsover



so is a ****load of violent crime/homicides here



your gun will not make up for your lack of size downstairs and general idiocy no matter how much you want it to

You HAVE to be trolling me, I just clearly explained that I did NOT say those were the reasons for the higher rate of crime/ gun deaths. I simply said, they are SOME FACTORS that contribute to those statistics. Statistics that you are using to perpetuate the fallacy that guns are the cause..

Fcuk, have I not made that clear as a bell, from the beginning?

[BrocepCurls]

You HAVE to be trolling me, I just clearly explained that I did NOT say those were the reasons for the higher rate of crime/ gun deaths. I simply said, they are SOME FACTORS that contribute to those statistics. Statistics that you are using to perpetuate the fallacy that guns are the cause..

Fcuk, have I not made that clear as a bell, from the beginning?

And you still havent said how those factors affect your country MORE THAN OURS. ffs can you not read. because we are discussing differences

What are the factors that cause USA to have more gun murders than other nations? there have to be some DIFFERENCES. things which america has which other countries dont

other than more gangs, we have everything that you just mentioned. so they arent actually factors in the above, are they? whereas your 300 fold gun increased ownership rate is clearly a distinguishable and much more important factor, geddit?

your argument fails, thank u and goodnight

[miscsleepdoctor]

except I have refuted them

lol at your use of "/argument", "I win the debate" and other elementary school playground argument tactics in a desperate and futile attempt to wield some kind of intellectual and/or argumentative authority. First sign of woman logic user aka. dumbass. I'm out.

obvious troll is obvious

[BrocepCurls]

So is... lmao. And you just referred to my idiocy. That's rich..

its 5:40 am, fukk off kunt