Wendler 5 3 1 & heavy singles

[MikeKK]

Currently I'm on Wendler 531 and I'm loving it. I want to incorporate heavy singles after each main lift (squat, bench, dl and ohp) but I'm, not sure of what sort of weight I should use.
For example today I did my 1st week of deadlifts:

Work sets:
5x88.75kg
5x102.25kg
11x116.25kg est 1RM (161kg)

Singles:
1x120kg
1x125kg
1x130kg
1x140kg

Am I supposed to do something like that? Is there any special system or % on singles or do you just add few kgs above your last set??
Another thing is, can you cope to do singles in every workout (apart from deload week) or should you just do it once in a while?

Some sort of spreadsheet would be great.

[DetMatthews]

The general rule is to do a single or two at your training max, and only to do the requisite number of reps on your final sets and not make them plus sets.

http://www.jimwendler.com/2012/11/53...rent-approach/

[MikeKK]

The general rule is to do a single or two at your training max, and only to do the requisite number of reps on your final sets and not make them plus sets.

http://www.jimwendler.com/2012/11/53...rent-approach/

So in the example above I should be doing singles with my last working max weight (116.25kgs) and do 2-3 sets with it?

[DetMatthews]

No. With 5/3/1 based on percentages, your last set of 3 for example would be 80% of your training max, then you'd do 100% for a single.

[Anthony21]

Look into 3/5/1 which is 5/3/1 catered towards powerlifting where you incorporate heavy singles.

[DJGreen2320]

Hey guys this is my first post so bear with me... I've currently been cutting for spring break. I also started doing 5-3-1 again because I really liked the results I got from it over the summer. Is it smart to be cutting and doing a heavy program like this? Also is it possible to increase on all my lifts while still sucking weight? Thanks for any advice you might have

[Determinednoob]

Hey guys this is my first post so bear with me... I've currently been cutting for spring break. I also started doing 5-3-1 again because I really liked the results I got from it over the summer. Is it smart to be cutting and doing a heavy program like this? Also is it possible to increase on all my lifts while still sucking weight? Thanks for any advice you might have

probably best to start your own thread vs hijacking someone else's, but to answer your questions

5/3/1 is fine although it will not produce strength gain nearly as fast as a beginner routine. You can increase lifts for awhile while losing weight as a beginner, but eventually you will stall until you start eating a surplus of calories.

[DJGreen2320]

Sorry about that guys... I guess being a n00b poster I wasn't clearly thinking.
But I wouldn't say I'm a beginner lifter. I have been lifting enough to say I have a base, I just didn't know if it were beneficial to switch to a higher rep program during this cut & if doing 5-3-1 on a calorie deficit is wasting my time even with a high protein intake

[jgreystoke]

If you are doing 3 5 1, which is 5 3 1 for powerlifting, the singles are scheduled like:

Week 1:

3 x 3 x 70, 80, 90% of training max, no AMRAP(as many reps as possible) on the top set. Just do a few singles at training max. You'll burn out if you to too many.

Week 2:

3 x 5 x 65, 75, 85%. No AMRAP. No singles

Week 3:

5 3 1 x 75, 85, 95%. No AMRAP. Few singles at training max.

Week 4:

3 x 5 x 40, 50, 60%. No AMRAP. No singles. This is a DELOAD.

Some use 50, 60, 70%. I just use 3 x 3 x 60, 70, 80%.

Lift well and prosper.

[Determinednoob]

If you have already built some mass, lift the same way on your cut as you did to build the mass with the only change possibly being a redux in vilume if needed. Aside from that 3x5s on compound lifts is a good place to start for preserving muscle on a cut.

[bms5229]

where you going for spring break? if it's some place south, like Panama City, just focus on cardio and enough traditional lifting for maintenance. Colder climate, I wouldn't worry so much about a 6 pack and stick to Wendler's guidance.

[MikeKK]

So last week I had singles with every workout. This week i underperformed with bench and deadlift day. Is it possible that these singles overloaded me and affected this weeks workouts? This week I'm at least 2-3 reps weaker than I should be.

Yeah and I'd appreciate if people didn't steal my topics...

[bmontgomery87]

read the book and you won't have to ask questions.

[Jasonk282]

So last week I had singles with every workout. This week i underperformed with bench and deadlift day. Is it possible that these singles overloaded me and affected this weeks workouts? This week I'm at least 2-3 reps weaker than I should be.

Yeah and I'd appreciate if people didn't steal my topics...

Yes that is why you under preformed.

Like others have said switch to 3/5/1 which lets you hit heavy singles every other week so you don;t fry the fcuk out of your CNS.

[MikeKK]

read the book and you won't have to ask questions.

Thank you for constructive input.

[TLDelaney]

Sorry about that guys... I guess being a n00b poster I wasn't clearly thinking.
But I wouldn't say I'm a beginner lifter. I have been lifting enough to say I have a base, I just didn't know if it were beneficial to switch to a higher rep program during this cut & if doing 5-3-1 on a calorie deficit is wasting my time even with a high protein intake

From posts I read about 5/3/1 a solid base for this program would be 405 dl, 315 Squat, and 225 bench. Otherwise it would be more beneficial to be on to be on a diff program such as a SS.

Lifting heavy while cutting can still be a good thing. Better then all out high rep, just do your heavy compound lifts with hypertrophy assistance work.

[Jasonk282]

Thank you for constructive input.

I'd listen to the powerlifter...just saying.

[bmontgomery87]

Thank you for constructive input.

Honestly, it was.
If you're going to subscribe to a particular training program and spend hours each week training that way, at the very least you could spend 20 bucks on the book and take 2 hours to read it.

It says a lot about someones work ethic when they'd rather ask a ton of questions before trying to answer them on their own.

Good luck with that.

[Anthony21]

Honestly, it was.
If you're going to subscribe to a particular training program and spend hours each week training that way, at the very least you could spend 20 bucks on the book and take 2 hours to read it.

It says a lot about someones work ethic when they'd rather ask a ton of questions before trying to answer them on their own.

Good luck with that.

#Nothingbutthetruthandthewholetruth

[shffl]

I've done 531 with singles for a while (currently not because cutting) and it gave me great results. I pretty much stick to standard 531 and toss out all assistance exercises. I perform heavy singles after the main set by ramping up to the max of the day (usually around 90% give or take) and grind out a couple sets of it. And if I still feel like I have some energy after, I will go do whatever I want at the gym. In fact, I have hit my PR of 405 squat doing this after a main set of 335 @ AMRAP. It all comes down to adaptability.

If you're losing strength it's due to two possible things. Inadequate food intake/recovery or it's just a temporary strength loss. Once you get used to it, it will rebound.

By the way, I believe the book may have recommended not doing the AMRAP sets on 531 if you have singles after. That's honestly up to you to see how your body can handle it. I found it to be effective to do both and I have done it for a prolonged period of time with great results. The only thing I discovered is my deadlift improved more if I do heavy singles for deadlifts once every two weeks. So again, it's down to finding your sweet spot.

Oh and I never deload every three weeks, it's whenever I feel like I need it. This whole deload in 3 weeks is counter-productive IMO because not everyone needs it. Just take it when you need it not because the book said so.

[MikeKK]

Honestly, it was.
If you're going to subscribe to a particular training program and spend hours each week training that way, at the very least you could spend 20 bucks on the book and take 2 hours to read it.

It says a lot about someones work ethic when they'd rather ask a ton of questions before trying to answer them on their own.

Good luck with that.

Yeah I guess you're right but if everyone always read up/bought stuff then there would be no point to this forum right? People ask stuff that's already in books/research.
I found some info on wendler and singles and wanted to clear it up. This week I noticed decrease in my performance so I asked the question. Tbh I don't enjoy reading this type of books really. I went through SS book barely and I can assume that wendler's book is similar in terms of info density.

I've done 531 with singles for a while (currently not because cutting) and it gave me great results. I pretty much stick to standard 531 and toss out all assistance exercises. I perform heavy singles after the main set by ramping up to the max of the day (usually around 90% give or take) and grind out a couple sets of it. And if I still feel like I have some energy after, I will go do whatever I want at the gym. In fact, I have hit my PR of 405 squat doing this after a main set of 335 @ AMRAP. It all comes down to adaptability.

If you're losing strength it's due to two possible things. Inadequate food intake/recovery or it's just a temporary strength loss. Once you get used to it, it will rebound.

By the way, I believe the book may have recommended not doing the AMRAP sets on 531 if you have singles after. That's honestly up to you to see how your body can handle it. I found it to be effective to do both and I have done it for a prolonged period of time with great results. The only thing I discovered is my deadlift improved more if I do heavy singles for deadlifts once every two weeks. So again, it's down to finding your sweet spot.

Oh and I never deload every three weeks, it's whenever I feel like I need it. This whole deload in 3 weeks is counter-productive IMO because not everyone needs it. Just take it when you need it not because the book said so.

Yeah I was doing max effort on 3rd set then increasing the weights by 2.5-5kg each set until I felt near my limit. It was obviously well below my real max due to the fact that I was already fatigued by max effort set. I guess that combination fried my CNS?
Yep I take deload weeks whenever I need them. After my 1st cycle I didn't have any deload. On 2nd cycle I had some 5 days deload (mainly due to need of change of schedule). I think that deload week really starts playing a massive role when it starts getting steeper and harder, well into the program.

[bmontgomery87]

Yeah I guess you're right but if everyone always read up/bought stuff then there would be no point to this forum right? People ask stuff that's already in books/research.
I found some info on wendler and singles and wanted to clear it up. This week I noticed decrease in my performance so I asked the question. Tbh I don't enjoy reading this type of books really. I went through SS book barely and I can assume that wendler's book is similar in terms of info density.

The forums are good for questions after doing your own research. People put time and money into writing books, and then we spend our money buying them and spend time reading and understanding them. So I never mind answering questions if someone had a comprehension problem or doesn't have a way to access the material. But when you can easily get a copy (its out there for free if you look) and spend an hour reading it, you can answer a lot of your own questions.


5/3/1 is well written, takes around an hour to read, and isn't dense. It's got good info but its easy to understand. I would really reccommend trying to get a copy. It's great. It's nothing like the SS book at all.

[Jasonk282]

Y




Yeah I was doing max effort on 3rd set then increasing the weights by 2.5-5kg each set until I felt near my limit. It was obviously well below my real max due to the fact that I was already fatigued by max effort set. I guess that combination fried my CNS?
Yep I take deload weeks whenever I need them. After my 1st cycle I didn't have any deload. On 2nd cycle I had some 5 days deload (mainly due to need of change of schedule). I think that deload week really starts playing a massive role when it starts getting steeper and harder, well into the program.

I'm on my 8th cycle and have only taken 3 deloads, all because of scheduled conflicts. If you had read the 3 5 1 book you would have know not to do AMRAP sets AND heavy singles. lso you would have known that your singles are your training max, not just adding more weight till you can't anymore.

The forums are good for questions after doing your own research. People put time and money into writing books, and then we spend our money buying them and spend time reading and understanding them. So I never mind answering questions if someone had a comprehension problem or doesn't have a way to access the material. But when you can easily get a copy (its out there for free if you look) and spend an hour reading it, you can answer a lot of your own questions.


5/3/1 is well written, takes around an hour to read, and isn't dense. It's got good info but its easy to understand. I would really reccommend trying to get a copy. It's great. It's nothing like the SS book at all.

This^ I have the book downloaded on my computer and from time to time re-read parts to make sure I have things understood or am doing them right.

it's nothing like SS.

On spread for Bmonty.

[MikeKK]

I guess that I'll get myself a copy of Wendler's book then.

[bmontgomery87]

This^ I have the book downloaded on my computer and from time to time re-read parts to make sure I have things understood or am doing them right.

it's nothing like SS

On spread for Bmonty.

I read it every couple of months to make sure I'm still on track. Even though I'm no longer following 5/3/1 some of the profound principles should stick with you throughout your training.
I've probably read it 10 times.

[shffl]

I'm on my 8th cycle and have only taken 3 deloads, all because of scheduled conflicts. If you had read the 3 5 1 book you would have know not to do AMRAP sets AND heavy singles. lso you would have known that your singles are your training max, not just adding more weight till you can't anymore.

I know this isn't directed at me but I feel like commenting on this. As I mentioned, I have done AMRAP and heavy singles with much success. It all comes down to the individual to experiment. You don't always have to follow a program to the tee, fit it around what you can and cannot do. This discussion deviates a little from the traditional 3/5/1 + singles but I felt that this philosophy of training is successful when it comes to strength gains.

[bmontgomery87]

I know this isn't directed at me but I feel like commenting on this. As I mentioned, I have done AMRAP and heavy singles with much success. It all comes down to the individual to experiment. You don't always have to follow a program to the tee, fit it around what you can and cannot do. This discussion deviates a little from the traditional 3/5/1 + singles but I felt that this philosophy of training is successful when it comes to strength gains.

Spot on.
You can tweak it to fit your needs, that's what you should do with any program.

If you're powerlifting, the singles would be the way to go. If you're just trying to put on size and get stronger I think you're fine following the traditional template and adding in some bodybuilding type assistance work.