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  1. #1
    Banned -=FLEX=-'s Avatar
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    You can't out-train bad nutrition........or can you?

    I see so many people saying that nutrition is 80% or whatever.

    Yet I see so many people wandering around the gym doing complete BS routines and making zero gains.

    Lots of people would say my diet is total crap. I drink beer every day. I never eat fruit and don't eat a lot of veggies or grains. I pretty much live on meat, eggs and beer.

    But I lift heavy, and I lift a lot. And while I'm clearly not bodybuilder lean, I have a helluva lot of muscle mass, and not bad strength (except presses due to shoulder issues).

    So what's your position?

    Is nutrition more important, or is effort in the gym more important?
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  2. #2
    The Jesus Crew 2nd_chance's Avatar
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    I have never bought into the whole 80% thing. There's no proof. Working hard in the gym is most important IMO. Now, if you only eat 50g of protein a day or eat 1500 cals below maintenance then you are wasting your time.

    Btw, this seems to be another setup thread for IC and ID...
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  3. #3
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    Originally Posted by 2nd_chance View Post

    Btw, this seems to be another setup thread for IC and ID...
    SRS thread is SRS

    Just saw someone post in another thread that "nutrition is 90%" and I had to speak up.
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  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by -=FLEX=- View Post
    SRS thread is SRS

    Just saw someone post in another thread that "nutrition is 90%" and I had to speak up.
    Nutrition is 99%. Statistics prove this!
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  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by 2nd_chance View Post
    Now, if you only eat 50g of protein a day or eat 1500 cals below maintenance then you are wasting your time.
    I'm well over 3,000 cals and 300 g of protein a day.
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  6. #6
    198 or bust Getsum's Avatar
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    This is just my personal experience and I don't want to get into some kind of TRACK/DON'T TRACK, KETO, IIFYM, IF type debate.

    Nutrition is extremely important when I'm trying to drop weight like I am right now and it's not that big of a factor if I'm just focusing on gaining strength. But, I personally regret working my ass off to get to a lower body weight back in 2011 and just letting things get out of hand after. Going forward, I'd like give the nutrition factor of my training the attention it deserves.
    Eat, Sleep, Lift...Repeat!

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  7. #7
    Master Roshi IronCharles's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by -=FLEX=- View Post
    So what's your position?
    It depends on your goals. If your primary goal is getting ripped, then obviously nutrition is 90% of your battle. If your goal is strength and mass, then training is clearly more important, assuming minimum macros for growth are consistently met and/or exceeded.
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  8. #8
    f'cking wanna-be Jtbny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by -=FLEX=- View Post
    I see so many people saying that nutrition is 80% or whatever.

    Yet I see so many people wandering around the gym doing complete BS routines and making zero gains.

    Lots of people would say my diet is total crap. I drink beer every day. I never eat fruit and don't eat a lot of veggies or grains. I pretty much live on meat, eggs and beer.

    But I lift heavy, and I lift a lot. And while I'm clearly not bodybuilder lean, I have a helluva lot of muscle mass, and not bad strength (except presses due to shoulder issues).

    So what's your position?

    Is nutrition more important, or is effort in the gym more important?
    Do you know the diet of those people you see wondering around the gym not making any progress? I would say that you proved that nutruition is important. Your goals are to build muscle, and you lift for that goal. But by your own post you live on meat, eggs and beer. Don't you think there is a connection? Imagine a person with your same goal who did the same workout in the gym but their diet was mostly fruit and veggies. Would their result be the same? Nutruition is important IMO although Im not sure what percent it is.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Jrob69's Avatar
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    Eat to live or live to eat.

    you dont do one or the other or a combination of you dont have to worry about lifting

    Its all about your goals.
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by -=FLEX=- View Post
    I'm well over 3,000 cals and 300 g of protein a day.
    Aware.
    David


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  11. #11
    Registered User BlackSwan88's Avatar
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    Here's my two cents...and what I've noticed about myself. As a youngster, I ate whatever I wanted and had great arms, great chest and good upper legs. Took 15 years off. Now I watch my diet like a hawk. I have superior arms...triceps are my best muscle, great chest, the beginning of a six pack, good upper legs and good calves (something I NEVER had in my youth).

    So for ME, I'd say 70% Nutrition and 30% workouts. To be honest, I'm very happy with the amount of muscle I have...if I could successfully cut, I think I'd be ecstatic. I think I"m around 12% BF and if I got down to say 8%...life would be good..except when it came to eating. ha ha

    Keep in mind some of us were born with great genetic and some of us have to work harder (at the gym and watch what we eat) because we aren't so blessed. OP, sounds like you may be in the blessed group..good on ya
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  12. #12
    Master Roshi IronCharles's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    Do you know the diet of those people you see wondering around the gym not making any progress?
    My personal opinion (and one shared by many old school bodybuilders) is that the reason most people don't make gains is, they don't eat enough. I see skinnny dudes in the gym busting their asses for years, and haven't changed one bit. If they gave their bodies enough fuel for growth, their results would be different.

    However, some have overcomplicated nutritional dogma to such a degree, that many feel if they don't eat certain types of food, or eat 100 cals over or under some "optimum" anabolic window, that they will fail, and they will be doomed to a life of being scrawny, or become 400 pound behemoths. They try to shoehorn everybody into some set of stereotypical ideals that they say must be adhered to by everyone, regardless of genetics or metabolic efficiency. And if you don't follow the "plan", you can't possibly see results.

    Why make things so complicated? I believe in the saying, "Eat like an animal, train like a monster, sleep like a baby." Why make things more difficult than they have to be?
    Last edited by IronCharles; 02-03-2013 at 02:04 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    It depends on your goals. If your primary goal is getting ripped, then obviously nutrition is 90% of your battle. If your goal is strength and mass, then training is clearly more important, assuming minimum macros for growth are consistently met and/or exceeded.
    I agree with you. But IMHO if you only care about getting leaner and ripped and not building muscle then you should be on weightwatchers.com and not BODYBYUILDING.COM

    Building muscle is why I am here and what I am trying to accomplish.
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  14. #14
    f'cking wanna-be Jtbny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    My personal opinion (and one shared by many old school bodybuilders) is that the reason most people don't make gains is, they don't eat enough. I see skinnny dudes in the gym busting their asses for years, and haven't changed one bit. If they gave their bodies enough fuel for growth, their results would be different.
    IC I would agree.
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  15. #15
    Kicking sarcopenia's azz ljimd's Avatar
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    High protein, high fat, low carb (even 10 brew a day keeps you under 150).
    How's that a crappy diet if you aren't headed for the stage?
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by -=FLEX=- View Post
    I pretty much live on meat, eggs and beer.
    lulz. I like the cut of your jib OP
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by Jrob69 View Post
    Eat to live or live to eat.
    I eat to fuel my muscles.

    5-6 eggs for breakfast every day, red meat for lunch every day, and some kind of lean meat for dinner every night.

    I don't snack. I don't eat junk. On the rare occasions I eat between meals I'll have some cottage cheese or yogurt or something.

    Food for me is fuel; nothing more, nothing less.
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by -=FLEX=- View Post
    I see so many people saying that nutrition is 80% or whatever.

    Yet I see so many people wandering around the gym doing complete BS routines and making zero gains.

    Lots of people would say my diet is total crap. I drink beer every day. I never eat fruit and don't eat a lot of veggies or grains. I pretty much live on meat, eggs and beer.

    But I lift heavy, and I lift a lot. And while I'm clearly not bodybuilder lean, I have a helluva lot of muscle mass, and not bad strength (except presses due to shoulder issues).

    So what's your position?

    Is nutrition more important, or is effort in the gym more important?
    Hey FLEX....



    I am testing to see if my "perma-ban", has actually been lifted.

    Drum roll:..........


    Giving it thought....the are two of the three legs of a stool. (the other being recovery)

    And while I say nutrition is "90%"...etc, I am wrong when I say that. When I examine that, what I mean, is nutrition is where 90% of people fail.

    There are a ton of guys who bust a$$ in the gym but fail to eat right. They will get big and strong if they eat enough...but wont look like a bodybuilder. On a side note, I dont even think of the guys who dont train right.....and since I dont train in the 'real world' seeing others, there are probably a lot more then I thought. (we wont even consider them though....as they will NEVER get anywhere)


    I think it is easy to eat big and train big..... results will come...but doing this at body composition levels resembling anything of a bodybuilder will be tough. (unless you are just blessed in the genes to be lean)
    Shoot, for me nutrition is 90% of the battle....but worth it.


    Hell when I ate without purpose or any regard to overall day in day out quanitity....I was big, I was strong...but I had a 36" waist.

    That was not good enough for me. Now I am still strong, and still big....BUT, I have a 31" inch waist now.
    When you "want it all" that is when nutrition is key.


    It is all in the goals. Just big and strong.....sure....eat and eat big.
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  19. #19
    f'cking wanna-be Jtbny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by -=FLEX=- View Post
    I agree with you. But IMHO if you only care about getting leaner and ripped and not building muscle then you should be on weightwatchers.com and not BODYBYUILDING.COM

    Building muscle is why I am here and what I am trying to accomplish.
    In all fairness can't those who compete in actuall BB comps say the same thing about you? (or me for that matter)
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  20. #20
    ╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮ acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    You absolutely can out train poor nutrition, and it all comes down to not just preference and goal, but also output.

    I've used my GF as an example before. She eats quick breads by the loaf, devours cereal by the box and can't help herself around twizzlers and gummie bears. I also doubt that she gets 100 grams of protein a day.

    What she lacks in diet, she makes up for in work ethic. Not only does she lift 4 times a week, but she also instructs several hours of cardio a week. She is HIGH out put, which compensates for what others would consider poor nutrition.
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  21. #21
    achieved bro status discdoggie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    It depends on your goals. If your primary goal is getting ripped, then obviously nutrition is 90% of your battle. If your goal is strength and mass, then training is clearly more important, assuming minimum macros for growth are consistently met and/or exceeded.
    Yes.

    And for the WW comment ( ) what about the people who have spent a good several years building a solid base of muscle and now wanna lean out to show said muscle.


    IMO, to be lean AND muscular, both are important. . Equally.
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    Banned -=FLEX=-'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post

    And while I say nutrition is "90%"...etc, I am wrong when I say that.

    Just big and strong.....sure....eat and eat big.
    Actually it wasn't you that I was referring to as the person that said nutrition is 90%.

    And yes, my goals are to be big and strong. I try to lean out each summer. And even now during my bulk I still have visible veins in my shoulders and biceps.

    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    In all fairness can't those who compete in actuall BB comps say the same thing about you? (or me for that matter)
    ???

    I should be on weightwatchers.com?
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  23. #23
    CARLMAN ntrllftr's Avatar
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    Hard work in the gym with a sub par diet will still get you results. Results will very from person to person based on their genetic makeup. IMO!
    However... I believe results will be "better" with a more detailed diet. Detailed as in tailored towards each individual goals as many here have different.
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  24. #24
    f'cking wanna-be Jtbny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by -=FLEX=- View Post
    Actually it wasn't you that I was referring to as the person that said nutrition is 90%.

    And yes, my goals are to be big and strong. I try to lean out each summer. And even now during my bulk I still have visible veins in my shoulders and biceps.



    ???

    I should be on weightwatchers.com?
    Lol no, and neither should I. Was my point
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  25. #25
    Registered User Jrob69's Avatar
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    You could also look at the average weight lifting inmate. That would be a a solid argument against the 80% nutrition opinions/
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  26. #26
    f'cking wanna-be Jtbny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    My personal opinion (and one shared by many old school bodybuilders) is that the reason most people don't make gains is, they don't eat enough. I see skinnny dudes in the gym busting their asses for years, and haven't changed one bit. If they gave their bodies enough fuel for growth, their results would be different.

    However, some have overcomplicated nutritional dogma to such a degree, that many feel if they don't eat certain types of food, or eat 100 cals over or under some "optimum" anabolic window, that they will fail, and they will be doomed to a life of being scrawny, or become 400 pound behemoths. They try to shoehorn everybody into some set of stereotypical ideals that they say must be adhered to by everyone, regardless of genetics or metabolic efficiency. And if you don't follow the "plan", you can't possibly see results.

    Why make things so complicated? I believe in the saying, "Eat like an animal, train like a monster, sleep like a baby." Why make things more difficult than they have to be?
    Nothing I would disagree with here. My only thought is for many, the level of leanness you want to obtain will require much more attention to detail, at least that's what I read from those prepping for a comp. For someone like me, I probably don't need to micromanage my diet to that degree to see results. Maybe one day. However I do know that tracking my calories and macros has been the difference maker for me personally.
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  27. #27
    ╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮ acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by -=FLEX=- View Post
    I agree with you. But IMHO if you only care about getting leaner and ripped and not building muscle then you should be on weightwatchers.com and not BODYBYUILDING.COM

    Building muscle is why I am here and what I am trying to accomplish.
    I know we've gone through this rhetoric.... so to continue.

    I am interested in putting on muscle. I am interested i n being lean. I am not interested in adding substantial fat in order to do it (personal preference). I also enjoy bw work... I NEED to be lean for it.

    Now I know this bodybuilding.com, but many of the principles of training and diet can be applied to what I am doing. So I don't know why you are so stuck on the title of the web site.


    EDIT: I don't really think it's fair to say that those who are more interested in being lean have no interest in building muscle... That usually isn't the case.
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  28. #28
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Ok....one other thought.


    To me "nutrition" has several parts. I'll simplify and just say two.

    Quality and Quantity.

    I think for overall health....quality is important. But for just getting big and strong, Quantity will go a long way. Even for being big and lean, with the right "Quantity" you can do it.


    But when you do a blood panel, the truth of you "quality" will be clearly shown.
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  29. #29
    Master Roshi IronCharles's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    I am interested in putting on muscle. I am interested i n being lean.
    And this is where things get complicated. If your only goal is leanness, then dieting will get you where you need to be. If you only want maximum muscle or plan on competing in powerlifting, then eat big and lift heavy. It's when the goals are divided that you need to figure out where your balance point is on the teeter totter. And trying to stay balanced on that fulcrum is the hardest part of all.
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  30. #30
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    So here's my typical daily diet.

    Post workout 2 scoops whey in water.

    Mid-morning 5-6 hardboiled eggs with 2-3 tablespoons olive oil (no pic necessary)

    Typical Lunch:

    A container (1.5 cups or so) of this:



    Started as 6 lbs extra lean ground beef, browned then strained, a couple cans of beans and a few cans of crushed/diced tomatoes and maybe some sautéed onions and/or mushrooms (we never make it exactly the same every time).


    Typical Dinner:

    A plate load of this:



    3lbs sirloin roast on a bed of onions, carrots, potatoes.

    And yeah I crack a beer as soon as I get home from work and have as many as I want.

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