Few questions about adjustable dumbbells (what you like/dislike).

[MikeKK]

So I've been looking at the dumbbells, currently got the normal handles and just stack up some oly plates on them and do stuff. They're ok but there are certain problems with them.
1. They're long and unless you pay for premium collars the plates rattle and what not.
2. If you got trigrip plates or low quality plates they won't stick together and rattle and move around even if you got premium collars.
3. When doing heavy BP or such its pain in the ass to bring them up, resting them on the knees obviously hurts.
4. Due to their length you can't squeeze your pecs or shoulders when pressing.
5. They take longer to change weight than say ironmasters or powerblocks (not gonna mention bowflex lol).


What would your perfect adjustable DB be like? Compact, short? Does the DB diameter make any difference, for example 5 inch diameter vs 8 inch diameter. Round or hex or square shape of the plates? What do you reckon? What sort of finish, chrome, black oxide, paint? What sort of handle do you like? Straight and knurled or thick in the center and thin near the ends?

[ironwill2008]

What would your perfect adjustable DB be like?

For me, the quest would begin and end with IronMasters. IMO, they're the best adjustables out there.

[KBKB]

Another Ironmaster owner here...

Likes:

• Squarish plates make weight changes easier - no rolling. Square plates also means that they can be used as push up handles. They work very well for renegade rows too.
• Plate width ideal for comfortably sized small to medium weight dumbbells.
• Once assembled, dumbbell is solid; no rattling plates.
• Flat ends make it easy to rest them on your knees / thighs.
• Making weight changes is easy and reasonably quick.

Dislikes:

• Heavy dumbbells are kind of long. Really heavy dumbbells are really long.
• There are a few plate combinations with the ones I own that don't nest very well. (Changing the order in which the plates are nested usually fixes this.)
• Weight changes when adding or removing 22.5lb plates takes slightly longer.

[Navyguy825]

I have individual dbs up to 50lb then a set of IM up to the standard 75 that I scored off CL. The IM are a great set and very easy to use. Im glad I have the individuals cuz then it makes things so much easier and you dont have lots of changes being made as you are working out and I like to drop weight down as I go to keep maxing out on an exercise.

IM are easy to change and so far for me have not loosened or rattled even a bit.

[MikeKK]

[*] Heavy dumbbells are kind of long. Really heavy dumbbells are really long.
[/list]

I see, I know that these big plates are really thick. Would you prefer if they made them slightly bigger and at the same time thinner? The worst case scenario, the big ironmaster plates are as thin as the other ones but 1/2 bigger than the other plates, would you be ok with it or hate it? Me myself I don't really mind big diameter/size plates on DBs, what pisses me off is the handle length. If the holding area is long enough you can always grab it in such a way that it prevents you from bruising your hand, nomsayin?
So you think that square plates are much better than circular ones?

[BloodType3R]

Dislike: chrome handles

Why does everything have to be chrome these days?

[MikeKK]

Dislike: chrome handles

Why does everything have to be chrome these days?

it looks nice and ****. You can see your ugly ass face in it haha. Dunno man, I was one of these chrome people but ever since I got me texas power bar with oxide coating I don't like chrome finish that much now.
It gets into the knurling making it very weak.

[ProtienandIron]

Dislike: chrome handles

Why does everything have to be chrome these days?

Agreed^. Also, I can't stand 'ergo' grip.

[KBKB]

I see, I know that these big plates are really thick. Would you prefer if they made them slightly bigger and at the same time thinner? The worst case scenario, the big ironmaster plates are as thin as the other ones but 1/2 bigger than the other plates, would you be ok with it or hate it? Me myself I don't really mind big diameter/size plates on DBs, what pisses me off is the handle length. If the holding area is long enough you can always grab it in such a way that it prevents you from bruising your hand, nomsayin?

If Ironmaster were to increase the width of the plates, I'd want it to only be a small increase. If they were made too wide, I think the extra girth would bug me. Ironmaster has made the gripping area of the handle long enough, however to make a small width increase a non-issue. Keetman has demonstrated that Ironmaster dumbbells can be used with standard plates; so if you wanted to, you could configure some pretty heavy dumbbells using standard plates. These would be shorter than dumbbells configured using square Ironmaster plates.

So you think that square plates are much better than circular ones?

They are better for the purposes I mentioned - push up handles and renegade rows. I don't do push ups with them, but I do sometimes use them for Renegade Rows. They're easier to use for this exercise than kettlebells.

I pretty sure that Ironmaster made them square for solidity and ease of weight changes. The square shape means that the plates lock together with no shimmying around once the lock-screw is tightened. The square shape also makes it easy to orient the dumbbell so that the little notch indicating the lock-screw disengagement is on top, making it easier to orient the screw correctly when inserting and removing it. The square plates also prevents the various plates and handle from rolling in potentially different directions with the lock-screw removed. As it is, it's very easy to add or remove plates when the lock-screws are removed. Assuming you're on a flat surface (like the Ironmaster stand), the plates stay upright with no assistance when the lock-screws are removed. This may be yet another reason for having plates the thickness that they are - I would guess that skinnier plates would be more prone to falling over.

[darkfact]

Agreed^. Also, I can't stand 'ergo' grip.

Amen dude, I hate how everything has those ergo grips nowadays, so useless...

[BloodType3R]

it looks nice and ****. You can see your ugly ass face in it haha. Dunno man, I was one of these chrome people but ever since I got me texas power bar with oxide coating I don't like chrome finish that much now.
It gets into the knurling making it very weak.

If you have sourced your TPB recently, it is most likely coated in black zinc not black oxide. I'm with you though, I'd love a DB handle with that coating (although I'd be cool with black oxide too).

[MikeKK]

If you have sourced your TPB recently, it is most likely coated in black zinc not black oxide. I'm with you though, I'd love a DB handle with that coating (although I'd be cool with black oxide too).

Yeah just double checked and its zinc coating, not oxide. Really nice and doesn't slip. The knurling is really aggressive to, chrome is pretty **** compared to that coating. Ofc I'm talking about cheapo barbells, eleiko/ivanko prob have much higher quality of chrome there.

[wannagoheavy]

I have the urethane powerblocks and I like them. A friend has the ironmasters and they seem more heavy duty. Both are good IMHO, but I liked the urethanes as they are very quiet and my wife likes the handle on them better than the ironmaster. I use mostly BB for workouts but use the PB for accessories. Pull overs can be cumbersome but other than that small adjustments in stance take care of the bulkiness of them.

[owasM]

i've only used generic spinlocks, and hate the ones that have a 1" diameter handle, (that may be to do with pretty much anything i build and use has 2" handle)

i still use my thin tube york fitness spinlocks with the 30mm? plastic grip, they seem to be fine up to 40kg.

and long handle length will make it harder to balance.

[irongrandpa]

For me, the quest would begin and end with IronMasters. IMO, they're the best adjustables out there.

I agree with this, I'll keep my Ironmasters even if I get more DBs. They are well built, feel like a normal DB, and don't take long to change weights. I have hex DBs 5-50 and the IM 5-120.

[MikeKK]

The reason I'm asking is that I've been thinking about designing my own dumbbells and get them fabricated. I'm talking custom handle and lock mechanism, custom weights.
Anyone got an idea how much fabrication costs? Say replicating something as complex as ironmasters + weight plates. I'm talking UK.

[iportal]

The reason I'm asking is that I've been thinking about designing my own dumbbells and get them fabricated. I'm talking custom handle and lock mechanism, custom weights.
Anyone got an idea how much fabrication costs? Say replicating something as complex as ironmasters + weight plates. I'm talking UK.

You're going to be paying a minimum of £17 an hour for fabrication; more than likely £25 an hour plus!
Fabrication could take hours.


Are you not a fan of buying iron masters or powerblocks?

[Detrus]

I'm actually considering the much disliked oly dumbbells. I don't care much about dumbbells now and Oly bars are way better than standard bars. Even if you get the bestest Ivanko B-86 plate spin relies on the quality of each hole and even then it's inconsistent. Want to use the same plates on bar and dumbbells. I'm looking for thin oly 10 lb plates, like Troy Standard Barbell, Yorks, bodysomething. Not sure if it's a good idea since you say they rattle because the holes are so sloppy. Or maybe your oly dumbbell sleeves are too thin.

I'm thinking I could get the regular 20" handles and if I need more ROM make DIY oly handles http://www.shermworks.com/allpipestuff.pdf although those will rattle, being 48mm.

[Maluket]

The reason I'm asking is that I've been thinking about designing my own dumbbells and get them fabricated. I'm talking custom handle and lock mechanism, custom weights.
Anyone got an idea how much fabrication costs? Say replicating something as complex as ironmasters + weight plates. I'm talking UK.

My perfect adjustable DB would be very compact and have flat surfaces on both sides to put on my legs or whatever (though I have dumbbell trays I can put on my rack), and be strong enough that I could drop them and not break them (I don't drop them, but I want to be able to if I find I really need to bail on an exercise). I'd want a small diameter so that I could bring my hands together as close as possible at the top of a flye or press. On the other hand, I want them wide enough diameter that they don't get too long at high poundages. So ideally, mercury-filled or something. *chuckle* While I don't need it yet, I'd like them to be able to expand to at least 100 pounds, to grow as I grow. Maybe hexagonal or octagonal plates so that it doesn't roll, but takes less maximum diameter for a given amount of weight than square. The weights would be free to rotate, as this matters to me for things like heavy wrist curls (when I tighten up my dumbbells, they feel a lot more awkward than if I leave a little play in them). Weights would be switchable "instantly".

I'm not aware of anything that meets that whole list, though if I were choosing from what's available, I'd go with Ironmasters.

For custom manufacture, I'm sure I couldn't get my entire list, and I'm not sure which features I'd pick over others. Clearly I wouldn't be getting mercury-filled, but it seems like everything else is up for grabs if you can pay the price. So far, though, it seems like the instant-switchable ones aren't as robust, and the robust ones don't switch so fast. Come up with a new design and sell those suckers.

[Detrus]

My perfect magical DB would be somewhat like an Ironmaster, where it only gets longer as you load up more weight. But the plates would be made from heavy steel like powerlifting ones or tungsten. So you could have 25 lb plates the diameter and thickness of current iron 10 lb plates. And they could have 2" holes to fit on oly bars.

The handles would have the option of spinning sleeves or not. You could turn it on and off with some bolt. Personally don't care if plates are round or square. For some things round plates are better, so maybe have a few square plates to keep it from rolling if you want, but the rest round.

Also wouldn't have that huge inner collar like the ironmasters. Makes it awkward to store or move.

Actually http://www.ivankobarbell.com/products/cbpp184kg/ Ivanko powerlifting 5kg plate is already pretty close at 8 14/16 diameter and 13/16 thick. Could buy half of what I wish for today at great expense. Maybe a dedicated product wouldn't have to charge so much per plate.

[MikeKK]

You're going to be paying a minimum of £17 an hour for fabrication; more than likely £25 an hour plus!
Fabrication could take hours.


Are you not a fan of buying iron masters or powerblocks?

Ironmasters are nice, powerblocks - not sure about their sturdiness. They're both damn expensive.
Well looking at my complex design, I think it would take minimum 20h lol.

I may just end up getting some short generic olympic dumbbells, some lockjaw locks and making/buying custom flat ends so that when I put them on my knees I have a big surface area.

My perfect adjustable DB would be very compact and have flat surfaces on both sides to put on my legs or whatever (though I have dumbbell trays I can put on my rack), and be strong enough that I could drop them and not break them (I don't drop them, but I want to be able to if I find I really need to bail on an exercise). I'd want a small diameter so that I could bring my hands together as close as possible at the top of a flye or press. On the other hand, I want them wide enough diameter that they don't get too long at high poundages. So ideally, mercury-filled or something. *chuckle* While I don't need it yet, I'd like them to be able to expand to at least 100 pounds, to grow as I grow. Maybe hexagonal or octagonal plates so that it doesn't roll, but takes less maximum diameter for a given amount of weight than square. The weights would be free to rotate, as this matters to me for things like heavy wrist curls (when I tighten up my dumbbells, they feel a lot more awkward than if I leave a little play in them). Weights would be switchable "instantly".

I'm not aware of anything that meets that whole list, though if I were choosing from what's available, I'd go with Ironmasters.

For custom manufacture, I'm sure I couldn't get my entire list, and I'm not sure which features I'd pick over others. Clearly I wouldn't be getting mercury-filled, but it seems like everything else is up for grabs if you can pay the price. So far, though, it seems like the instant-switchable ones aren't as robust, and the robust ones don't switch so fast. Come up with a new design and sell those suckers.

My design would incorporate a hollow handle with a locking mechanism that keeps all plates in place. The total length of the handle would be fixed, around 35cm (14in). The plates would stay fixed whether you trained with 5lb or max weight. I'm estimating the handle to weight 5-10kg (not sure yet), with around 20kg on each side, so total 45-50kg dbs.
i worked most things out but still having some issues with the locking mechanism (more complicated than the ironmasters screw one).
If I'm able to figure it out and it seems promising, hell I may even patent it and sell to some fitness company.

My perfect magical DB would be somewhat like an Ironmaster, where it only gets longer as you load up more weight. But the plates would be made from heavy steel like powerlifting ones or tungsten. So you could have 25 lb plates the diameter and thickness of current iron 10 lb plates. And they could have 2" holes to fit on oly bars.

The handles would have the option of spinning sleeves or not. You could turn it on and off with some bolt. Personally don't care if plates are round or square. For some things round plates are better, so maybe have a few square plates to keep it from rolling if you want, but the rest round.

Also wouldn't have that huge inner collar like the ironmasters. Makes it awkward to store or move.

Actually http://www.ivankobarbell.com/products/cbpp184kg/ Ivanko powerlifting 5kg plate is already pretty close at 8 14/16 diameter and 13/16 thick. Could buy half of what I wish for today at great expense. Maybe a dedicated product wouldn't have to charge so much per plate.

Yeah I'd love "heavier than steel" material but looking at the prices I think its out of the question. Tungsten is pretty expensive no? Lead would be good if it was encapsulated in a layer of steel? But there is always the chance of leakage and poisoning lol.
I think we gotta stay with steel or cast iron for now until they come up with some really heavy cheap and safe alternative.

[ProtienandIron]

The reason I'm asking is that I've been thinking about designing my own dumbbells and get them fabricated. I'm talking custom handle and lock mechanism, custom weights.
Anyone got an idea how much fabrication costs? Say replicating something as complex as ironmasters + weight plates. I'm talking UK.

I think you'll be surprised at how much materials will cost. Also, it can be difficult to tell fabs what it is you are after when they don't lift. That said, it would be an epic project if you did ever do it.

FWIW powerblocks sell on ebay about half the retail price, and they seem to come up a lot these days. I sold mine on there a year or so ago.

[MikeKK]

I think you'll be surprised at how much materials will cost. Also, it can be difficult to tell fabs what it is you are after when they don't lift. That said, it would be an epic project if you did ever do it.

FWIW powerblocks sell on ebay about half the retail price, and they seem to come up a lot these days. I sold mine on there a year or so ago.

If I was to decide to get everything fabricated I'd do proper technical drawings of every single part in some sort of 3D CAD software. This means that they'd know exactly what to do, dimensions, tolerances yada yada.

And yeah that would be some epic ass project. My designed db would be short but the plates would be probably around the size of bodypower 5kg plates (bit smaller perhaps). Yeah I know it's quite big but if you ask me I'd rather have big plate dbs rather than long ones.

[Detrus]

Yeah I'd love "heavier than steel" material but looking at the prices I think its out of the question. Tungsten is pretty expensive no? Lead would be good if it was encapsulated in a layer of steel? But there is always the chance of leakage and poisoning lol.
I think we gotta stay with steel or cast iron for now until they come up with some really heavy cheap and safe alternative.

Anything with lead is a nuisance to make healthy, which would drive the price up. And it's not that much denser than powerlifting steel. Tungsten is noticeably denser and non-toxic to boot. It is expensive, so maybe a ring along a steel plate or mixed into steel.

I wouldn't calculate real costs by Ivanko's prices. GP Industries makes a 185K psi stainless steel bar and sells it for $500. Ivanko's offerings are $1000. They have 220K psi steel so maybe it's that but even if they still made 185K psi it would be priced at $1000. They know the main target market for those types of products doesn't care about the difference between $500 and $2000.

I bet powerlifting steel plate would cost $2 per lb. Ivanko's are calibrated which ups the price, but you don't really need that. An olympic dumbbell that is as comfy as a standard dumbbell could have serious commercial potential.

[morebarbell]

...
I bet powerlifting steel plate would cost $2 per lb. Ivanko's are calibrated which ups the price, but you don't really need that. An olympic dumbbell that is as comfy as a standard dumbbell could have serious commercial potential.

Are you sure that the powerlifting plates are steel? I sold some pairs of Ivanko powerlifting plates and they were all cast iron. The only steel plates that I've seen from Ivanko are their "Ivanko Best" standard plates which are forged steel and chrome plated... also some of their fractional plates are steel. Vinko posted that they made some revolvers out of stainless but they didn't go into production.

[Detrus]

Are you sure that the powerlifting plates are steel? I sold some pairs of Ivanko powerlifting plates and they were all cast iron. The only steel plates that I've seen from Ivanko are their "Ivanko Best" standard plates which are forged steel and chrome plated... also some of their fractional plates are steel. Vinko posted that they made some revolvers out of stainless but they didn't go into production.

No I'm not. Sometimes they're referred to as powerlifting steel plates. There are some steels that are heavier than the common cast iron, I assumed it's something like that. Eleiko distributor here http://www.titanstrengthandpower.com...ts_plates.html says it's just machined iron.

And it's cast iron here too http://www.ironcompany.com/ivankocas...5kgpair_1.aspx

So Ivanko/Eleiko charge top dollar for the machining and calibration.

[morebarbell]

I have both the Powerblocks and the Ironmasters and like both. For 5-50 pounds, I greatly prefer the PowerBlock U-50 over the U-90 or the Ironmasters. At 50-120, it becomes more difficult to choose between the Powerblock and Ironmaster. Since you ask because you intend to fabricate an adjustable dumbbell, I think I'd suggest making something like the Ironmaster. The Powerblock would be too complicated, and I'm not sure you'd be able to urethane coat the plates. Making the Ironmaster plates would be costly, especially if you mill the plates out of steel. You could use regular pancake plates and just make a replica of the Ironmaster handle. It's essentially just an altered spinlock handle.... very similar to the old Jowett dumbbell. Threaded tube and thread bars can be purchased so all you'd need to do is some welding... and mill the end plates. If you want 1/4 turn unlocking like the Ironmaster than it would require more work.

[IvankoBarbellCo]

Are you sure that the powerlifting plates are steel? I sold some pairs of Ivanko powerlifting plates and they were all cast iron. The only steel plates that I've seen from Ivanko are their "Ivanko Best" standard plates which are forged steel and chrome plated... also some of their fractional plates are steel. Vinko posted that they made some revolvers out of stainless but they didn't go into production.

All powerlifting plates are cast-iron and the 0.25KG plate is stainless. I think we've got plans to do some other sizes in stainless. I'll take photos of the revolvers in stainless -- you're right, though, just samples, no production run

Re: other post: we did a little write up on making the plates here:

http://www.ivankobarbell.com/press/t...mpic_plate.pdf

And Richard Sorin of Sorinex has a good brief article on plates as well

[xephonics]

i'm happy with just some simple handles like these:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=123628391

I took the safety system off and just use them like normal handles, unless I'm in need to the safeties of course. My main like is the ability to go up to 200lbs per DB, and not break the bank doing it. I do not need to switch weights mid workout due to how my routine is setup, so change time is not really an issue, and the ivanko collars are quick to use anyways. And I like the thick handles for extra grip strength (I know they are not really thick, but every extra bit helps tax the grip.

[KBKB]

Yeah I know it's quite big but if you ask me I'd rather have big plate dbs rather than long ones.

I've used 105lb Ironmaster dumbbells for both bench press and dumbbell bench rows. I checked your log and it seems that you're in the same ballpark for dumbbell bench press. At that weight, I've never found the length to be a problem.

Here are a few photos showing them at 95lbs:







There are more photos in the Ironmaster Spotting Stand Photos and Review thread.

Here's a Lee Priest video where he works up to doing 140lbs per dumbbell:



If you find that the length still bothers you, you could have some Ironmaster compatible plates fabricated out of a denser material as suggested earlier in this thread. Standard plates can also be used with the Ironmaster handles, but to change them, you need to turn them on end.

It seems to me that you could save yourself a lot of engineering effort (and money too) if you started with the Ironmaster system and then fabricated whatever you need to tweak it to your liking.