Simple Carbs: During vs Post Workout

[cRal]

Is there any difference in having simple carbs (such as Dextrose, Malto, Waxy M) during your workout rather than straight after?

[BetterThanLife]

Is there any difference in having simple carbs (such as Dextrose, Malto, Waxy M) during your workout rather than straight after?

Are you involved with multiple glycogen-depleting endurance bouts in a single day? If a training session approaches or exceeds 90 minutes of continuous, exhaustive work, intra-exercise protein and carbs can be useful from a performance standpoint. The whole idea of quickly assimilated carbs postexercise is only a concern for endurance athletes who deplete glycogen and need to compete with those same glycogen-depleted muscles again in the same day. Therefore, if neither of those scenarios apply to you and you're not a multi-event-per-day competitive endurance athlete, then carbs can be consumed at any point in the day. Just meet your daily needs and eat the carb sources you enjoy, because there's nothing beneficial about your lightning-fast simple carbs.

[Train2Failure]

Are you involved with multiple glycogen-depleting endurance bouts in a single day? If a training session approaches or exceeds 90 minutes of continuous, exhaustive work, intra-exercise protein and carbs can be useful from a performance standpoint. The whole idea of quickly assimilated carbs postexercise is only a concern for endurance athletes who deplete glycogen and need to compete with those same glycogen-depleted muscles again in the same day. Therefore, if neither of those scenarios apply to you and you're not a multi-event-per-day competitive endurance athlete, then carbs can be consumed at any point in the day. Just meet your daily needs and eat the carb sources you enjoy, because there's nothing beneficial about your lightning-fast simple carbs.

this.

whatever fits your macros/thread

[BetterThanLife]

this.

whatever fits your macros/thread

Companies selling tubs of sugar and corn will not be happy. Oh wait, TNS has maltodextrin available on their website. OP, I would like to add that if you dread eating carbs, or if you suffered a severe jaw injury and are drinking all of your food through a straw, then maltodextrin is a useful carb source

[OptimumBody]

Is there any difference in having simple carbs (such as Dextrose, Malto, Waxy M) during your workout rather than straight after?

Like the previous poster said, it depends on what kind of workout you are doing. Some people say that drinking a high GI carb during workout affects hormone levels negatively.
It's better to have a low GI carb 45-60 mins before workout and a high GI carb just after workout with no carb intake during workout. Do that.

[BetterThanLife]

Like the previous poster said, it depends on what kind of workout you are doing. Some people say that drinking a high GI carb during workout affects hormone levels negatively.
It's better to have a low GI carb 45-60 mins before workout and a high GI carb just after workout with no carb intake during workout. Do that.

Like everything else you write, that is ridiculous. Once again, stop pulling advice from your rear end. Worrying about the GI is an unnecessary burden that leads to false food discrimination. I'll let AlanAragon provide further education (which you will likely overlook as you go back to spreading BS in the forum): The glycemic index (GI) is a joke. The only time anyone can take it into consideration is if you're a SEDENTARY DIABETIC CONSUMING A DIET WHOSE PREDIMINANT MACRONUTRIENT IS REFINED CARBOHYDRATE. Not a whole lot needs to be said beyond that. GI is a useless index for health-conscious active folks who don't eat large amounts of single types of foods in isolation. Worrying about GI is yet another way people feed their self-righteous, misguided, food neurosis. In the vast majority of trials lasting 6 months or longer, GI has no significant effect on bodyweight or body composition. And keep in mind, this is in the sedentary, deconditioned population. In the fit population, the impact of GI is even more miniscule.

[OptimumBody]

Like everything else you write, that is ridiculous. Once again, stop pulling advice from your rear end. Worrying about the GI is an unnecessary burden that leads to false food discrimination. I'll let AlanAragon provide further education (which you will likely overlook as you go back to spreading BS in the forum): The glycemic index (GI) is a joke. The only time anyone can take it into consideration is if you're a SEDENTARY DIABETIC CONSUMING A DIET WHOSE PREDIMINANT MACRONUTRIENT IS REFINED CARBOHYDRATE. Not a whole lot needs to be said beyond that. GI is a useless index for health-conscious active folks who don't eat large amounts of single types of foods in isolation. Worrying about GI is yet another way people feed their self-righteous, misguided, food neurosis. In the vast majority of trials lasting 6 months or longer, GI has no significant effect on bodyweight or body composition. And keep in mind, this is in the sedentary, deconditioned population. In the fit population, the impact of GI is even more miniscule.

I clearly said 'some people say' .
Why would someone take a a high GI carb before workout only to have a rapid insulin level spike followed by a rapid insulin level fall?
'The glycemic index (GI) is a joke' Where is the proof that it is joke?
I agree that it's more important for diabetics.
'GI is a useless index for health-conscious active folks who don't eat large amounts of single types of foods in isolation.' Well, it will be 'useless' as you say until they they start developing insulin resistance and become diabetics due to frequent intake of large amounts of high GI carbs.
You speak about trials and all that, not only in this post? Who supervised the trials? you? There are many as you say 'trials' and experiments out there, and the details are found on the internet. In each of them, there are fluctuations/differences. You seem to be using some of them to make your deductions instead of making deductions from your own experiments. 'In the vast majority of trials' Which ones?
I never said that GI has a significant effect on bodyweight.
Whenever I say something about A, you come up with comments on A, B, C.... - things that I never said, and trying to correct things that I never said.
I'm sorry but your comments are harsh. There is something wrong with your behavior.

[aaronuconn]

Are you involved with multiple glycogen-depleting endurance bouts in a single day? If a training session approaches or exceeds 90 minutes of continuous, exhaustive work, intra-exercise protein and carbs can be useful from a performance standpoint. The whole idea of quickly assimilated carbs postexercise is only a concern for endurance athletes who deplete glycogen and need to compete with those same glycogen-depleted muscles again in the same day. Therefore, if neither of those scenarios apply to you and you're not a multi-event-per-day competitive endurance athlete, then carbs can be consumed at any point in the day. Just meet your daily needs and eat the carb sources you enjoy, because there's nothing beneficial about your lightning-fast simple carbs.

This is well written. Many of us concerned with bodybuilding don't hit glycogen depletion, so the need for intra-workout carb supplementation isn't necessarily needed. You can try it out for yourself to see if you experience an increase in performance, though.

[BetterThanLife]

I clearly said 'some people say'

Just because you heard something doesn't mean you should present it as a fact in the forum. You seem so intent on giving the absolute worst advice. If you have nothing to back up your claims other than "some people say", that's a major sign that it's BS. Some people say that brown rice gives you huge biceps and ripped abs, but white rice results in a chubby gut and nasty flab. You're doing a fine job of perpetuating broscience in this forum.

It's better to have a low GI carb 45-60 mins before workout and a high GI carb just after workout with no carb intake during workout. Do that.

Where did you even come up with that recommendation?!

[snorkelman]

GI is irrelevant unless you are diabetic. Do you eat a truckload of a single macro? I didn't think so.

[OptimumBody]

Just because you heard something doesn't mean you should present it as a fact in the forum. You seem so intent on giving the absolute worst advice. If you have nothing to back up your claims other than "some people say", that's a major sign that it's BS. Some people say that brown rice gives you huge biceps and ripped abs, but white rice results in a chubby gut and nasty flab. You're doing a fine job of perpetuating broscience in this forum.

Where did you even come up with that recommendation?!

I tried it myself and it works. Some other people tried it, and it worked. You read it and it makes you annoyed. If it does not work for you, its fine. Each human body is atleast slightly different from each other. But allow others to to try instead of making users follow only your guideline, and discouraging others. What will happen if Trutein does not work for me or produce side-effects, I keep on discouraging all your Trutein posts? Or I keep on not recommending it? Just give your own advice and allow others to give theirs, and let the OP experiment and decide which is best for him. You can have experiements/trials on thousands and thousands of people, and yet other millions of people might not experience the same results of the experiements or trials.
It seems that you have a problem with me. Is it the username?
As you have noticed I'm not here to fight or to negate your posts. I only try to give advice from my own studies, experience and from the results people around me had. I also use the internet to verify what others are experiencing.
When I say 'some people say', these people are usually experienced in nutrition and bodybuilding. Some of them have made there own experiements and research. I don't feel the need to post links for proofs as I know I'm being honest and I have not come here to fight, winning debates and show up.

If you have nothing to back up your claims other than "some people say", that's a major sign that it's BS.

Then, all what you have said so far could have been 'BS' also.

If I know I'm wrong somewhere, I'll accept it. I will never keep on trying to prove myself that I'm right if I know that I'm wrong, unlike others.

[OptimumBody]

GI is irrelevant unless you are diabetic. Do you eat a truckload of a single macro? I didn't think so.

Hi,
Is it not better to take a high GI carb just after workout compared to a low GI carb?
Does taking more low GI carb instead of high GI carb daily lower your chances of developing insulin resistance?
Is it not better to take some low GI carb before workout rather than a high GI carb?
Does taking a high GI carb during a weight training workout affect your mood, energy and hormone levels?
Do your answers to the above questions support this : 'Some people say that drinking a high GI carb during workout affects hormone levels negatively.
It's better to have a low GI carb 45-60 mins before workout and a high GI carb just after workout with no carb intake during workout.'

[BetterThanLife]

I tried it myself and it works. Some other people tried it, and it worked. You read it and it makes you annoyed. If it does not work for you, its fine. Each human body is atleast slightly different from each other. But allow others to to try instead of making users follow only your guideline, and discouraging others. What will happen if Trutein does not work for me or produce side-effects, I keep on discouraging all your Trutein posts? Or I keep on not recommending it? Just give your own advice and allow others to give theirs, and let the OP experiment and decide which is best for him. You can have experiements/trials on thousands and thousands of people, and yet other millions of people might not experience the same results of the experiements or trials.
As you have noticed I'm not here to fight or to negate your posts. I only try to give advice from my own studies, experience and from the results people around me had. I also use the internet to verify what others are experiencing.
When I say 'some people say', these people are usually experienced in nutrition and bodybuilding. Some of them have made there own experiements and research. I don't feel the need to post links for proofs as I know I'm being honest and I have not come here to fight, winning debates and show up.
Then, all what you have said so far could have been 'BS' also.

Now you're claiming that you tried something and it worked, so it must be a fact and it's the best method for everyone. Your personal testimony is a highly subjective bases for argument. Science is far more reliable than your random opinions, hearsay, and gym dogma. I have confronted you on several issues, and my stance has not been mere opinion, it has been supported by research. You disregard research because it goes completely against your claims. What if Trutein doesn't work... as if protein, an essential nutrient, doesn't work? That would be like buying a bag of chicken, eating it, then returning to grocery store complaining that it didn't work. Protein definitely works and it is not open to debate. This is why the forum is not just a bunch of people sharing campfire stories about how they got shredded using glutamine (a supplement that I saw you recommend for muscle gain and recovery). From a scientific standpoint, your personal experiences are wrong. Citing personal observations is not a totally useless conversation, but I have consistently cited research that refutes your empty claims and personal anecdotes. Since your solution is to dismiss research and place your beliefs above it, then I hope you’re enjoying your place among the legions of uncritical thinkers who are vulnerable to all sorts of myths, marketing, and hilarious practices. All I ask is that you keep your advice to yourself instead of trying to breed moronic bros in the forum.

[OptimumBody]

Now you're claiming that you tried something and it worked, so it must be a fact and it's the best method for everyone. Your personal testimony is a highly subjective bases for argument. Science is far more reliable than your random opinions, hearsay, and gym dogma. I have confronted you on several issues, and my stance has not been mere opinion, it has been supported by research. You disregard research because it goes completely against your claims. What if Trutein doesn't work... as if protein, an essential nutrient, doesn't work? That would be like buying a bag of chicken, eating it, then returning to grocery store complaining that it didn't work. Protein definitely works and it is not open to debate. This is why the forum is not just a bunch of people sharing campfire stories about how they got shredded using glutamine (a supplement that I saw you recommend for muscle gain and recovery). From a scientific standpoint, your personal experiences are wrong. Citing personal observations is not a totally useless conversation, but I have consistently cited research that refutes your empty claims and personal anecdotes. Since your solution is to dismiss research and place your beliefs above it, then I hope you’re enjoying your place among the legions of uncritical thinkers who are vulnerable to all sorts of myths, marketing, and hilarious practices. All I ask is that you keep your advice to yourself instead of trying to breed moronic bros in the forum.

Since your solution is to dismiss research and place your beliefs above it

How can you say that? You have misunderstood me.


I recommended glutamine to help in muscle gain by lower the catabolic effects of weight training that needs glutamine, because if its not available, glutamine is taken from the muscles. I never said glutamine build muscle mass directly. It prevents muscle breakdown during intense workouts.

What if Trutein doesn't work... as if protein, an essential nutrient, doesn't work?

I've used Trutein as an example. Again you have misunderstood me.

You definitly have some problem. You don't want others to give advice that you don't want to see, but want others to follow only your advice or advice that you like. You don't want others to use products from brands that you don't like. You don't want others to take the supplements they want to take. You just want others to be like you and use what you are using. Or maybe you want to be the only one to give advice here?
It is better to stop here because you keep messing around with me, misunderstanding my posts, and coming up with things that contradict things that I have not said. As from now, i'll ignore your replies to my posts.

[Hawks58]

Like the previous poster said, it depends on what kind of workout you are doing. Some people say that drinking a high GI carb during workout affects hormone levels negatively.
It's better to have a low GI carb 45-60 mins before workout and a high GI carb just after workout with no carb intake during workout. Do that.

The negatively effecting hormone levels you are talking about. Do you even know which hormones? Do you understand it does not matter what type of carb you are ingesting, they will negatively effect hormones and positively effect others??

Hi,
1Is it not better to take a high GI carb just after workout compared to a low GI carb?
2Does taking more low GI carb instead of high GI carb daily lower your chances of developing insulin resistance?
3Is it not better to take some low GI carb before workout rather than a high GI carb?
4Does taking a high GI carb during a weight training workout affect your mood, energy and hormone levels?
5Do your answers to the above questions support this : 'Some people say that drinking a high GI carb during workout affects hormone levels negatively.
It's better to have a low GI carb 45-60 mins before workout and a high GI carb just after workout with no carb intake during workout.'

1.) Where is some proof that a high/low GI carb is superior post workout? Or atleast where it makes enough of a difference for me to care?
2.) I don't see anyone in here to saying ingest just low GI carbs. You shouldn't develop insulin resistance eating a balanced diet.
3.) Does it matter? Using myself as N=1. I just ate a bowl of oats for breakfast and when I'm done here I'm going to go workout. Some days if I'm at work and forget to bring some carbs to eat, I'll stop at a gas station and get a Hershey's Choc Bar for a quick preworkout. Both work the exact same in regards to energy levels. Just if I'm eating oats I'll eat them an hour before working out so they have time to settle more.
4.) I don't eat when working out. Nor am I worried about having carbs while working out unless my workout was going to be in excess of 2 hours...which it won't be.
5.) No my answers don't support that at all.


If you care so much about GI, I would worry more about GL. Unless someone has a predisposition to diabetes, I don't see how a normal/balanced diet would cause an onset of diabetes.

[BetterThanLife]

How can you say that? You have misunderstood me.


I recommended glutamine to help in muscle gain by lower the catabolic effects of weight training that needs glutamine, because if its not available, glutamine is taken from the muscles. I never said glutamine build muscle mass directly. It prevents muscle breakdown during intense workouts.
I've used Trutein as an example. Again you have misunderstood me.

It is better to stop here because you keep messing around with me, misunderstand my posts, and coming up with things that contradict things that I have not said.

Glutamine is useless for the purpose that you have just listed, even at high doses. Allow me to quote from RESEARCH:

"Whether considering buffering capacity, time to fatigue, or protein balance, glutamine supplementation fails to consistently demonstrate any positive ergogenic benefit on measures of recovery from exercise... Unfortunately, this appears to be another example of commercial marketing trumping scientific evidence that in this case demonstrates how nonessential glutamine supplementation is to athletic performance." http://journals.lww.com/acsm-csmr/Fu...id_for.14.aspx

"Although glutamine is generally recognized to be safe on the basis of relatively small studies, side effects in patients receiving home parenteral nutrition and in those with liver-function abnormalities have been described. Therefore, on the basis of currently available clinical data, it is inappropriate to recommend glutamine for therapeutic use in any condition." http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/1/25.full]

"We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults." http://link.springer.com/article/10....0523-y?LI=true

"These data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11834123

I'll stop there and let you post the research in support of your claim. I look forward to your response.

[OptimumBody]

The negatively effecting hormone levels you are talking about. Do you even know which hormones? Do you understand it does not matter what type of carb you are ingesting, they will negatively effect hormones and positively effect others??



1.) Where is some proof that a high/low GI carb is superior post workout? Or atleast where it makes enough of a difference for me to care?
2.) I don't see anyone in here to saying ingest just low GI carbs. You shouldn't develop insulin resistance eating a balanced diet.
3.) Does it matter? Using myself as N=1. I just ate a bowl of oats for breakfast and when I'm done here I'm going to go workout. Some days if I'm at work and forget to bring some carbs to eat, I'll stop at a gas station and get a Hershey's Choc Bar for a quick preworkout. Both work the exact same in regards to energy levels. Just if I'm eating oats I'll eat them an hour before working out so they have time to settle more.
4.) I don't eat when working out. Nor am I worried about having carbs while working out unless my workout was going to be in excess of 2 hours...which it won't be.
5.) No my answers don't support that at all.


If you care so much about GI, I would worry more about GL. Unless someone has a predisposition to diabetes, I don't see how a normal/balanced diet would cause an onset of diabetes.

Ok. You don't take anything when working out. Well, I did advise the OP not to take any carb during workout. Do you agree with that?
Usually, a bodybuilder would not want a quick insulin spike during weight training.
As for high GI carb after workout, try it yourself for a week and take your own conclusions.
And again, everybody is different. So, you may not feel any difference which is normal.
Each user here is free to take any legal supplements he wants too, at whatever time he wants to. You know your body better, I know mine better, and the OP knows his body better. With time, each one knows how their body react. I'm here just to give advice. I let it for the OP to experiment on my advice and other users advice, and choose the appropriate one for his targets. No need to fight or argue.

[BetterThanLife]

Hey OptimumBody, I want to say sorry for giving you a hard time yesterday afternoon. Opposing opinions are valuable to this forum, and I should not have addressed your claims with such hostility. When I came to this forum, my beliefs were erroneous and people called me out on it, which helped me become far more knowledgeable about fitness, nutrition, and supplementation. I wanted to open you up to research that perhaps you were not aware of, and I went about it the wrong way and was impolite. As I'm sure you realize, there are dozens of methods out there with a ton of testimony behind them and very little actual merit. This is why I like to include science to justify methods of practice, but I lost sight of the fact that research will never be the end-all judge. Real-world observations are much more subject to bias than what’s been demonstrated in controlled interventions, yet anecdotal evidence remains crucial to this forum and to finding the optimal approach to training and dieting. There's always room for learning and there's still plenty of learning I can do from other members. I apologize for my comments, and instead of acting like a smart ace, I will calmly and intelligently discuss topics from here on.

[mmafighterskiba]

Hey OptimumBody, I want to say sorry for giving you a hard time yesterday afternoon. Opposing opinions are valuable to this forum, and I should not have addressed your claims with such hostility. When I came to this forum, my beliefs were erroneous and people called me out on it, which helped me become far more knowledgeable about fitness, nutrition, and supplementation. I wanted to open you up to research that perhaps you were not aware of, and I went about it the wrong way and was impolite. As I'm sure you realize, there are dozens of methods out there with a ton of testimony behind them and very little actual merit. This is why I like to include science to justify methods of practice, but I lost sight of the fact that research will never be the end-all judge. Real-world observations are much more subject to bias than what’s been demonstrated in controlled interventions, yet anecdotal evidence remains crucial to this forum and to finding the optimal approach to training and dieting. There's always room for learning and there's still plenty of learning I can do from other members. I apologize for my comments, and instead of acting like a smart ace, I will calmly and intelligently discuss topics from here on.

Reps on recharge for this

[snorkelman]

Is it not better to take a high GI carb just after workout compared to a low GI carb?

Better for what goal? I think that if you seriously want to discuss this with an open mind, we need to clearly establish what the goal is an what the population is. Are you talking about natural athletes, with a goal of maximizing muscle protein synthesis?

Does taking a high GI carb during a weight training workout affect your mood, energy and hormone levels?

That is highly subjective and dependant upon whether you are training fasted or fed, training protocol, and how long before your workout you have eaten, what your daily intake of carbs are (keto diet or not) etc.

I will let you know from the get go that some people may respond better to certain carb set-ups, but there is danger in making sweeping claims intended to apply across the board to all populations.