***Official Nootropics Thread***

[Elliptical Envy]

I think neuron has sold quite a bit of galantamine. Those sales are relevant to my interests.

[DR_P]

seems like people are taking galantamine to lucid dream too.

If you want your brain to effectively consolidate declarative memory contents you have gained during the day, stimulating your cholinergic system pre bed is a very bad idea.
Yes, it will give you vivid dreams and help you to better retain motor/procedural contents but it will hamper the consolidation of declarative memory (e.g. vocabulary, anatomy, and anything we use to subsume as 'knowledge').

If you have to, then stimulate your cholinergic system in the morning, not in the evening.

[ISurfNudeBrah]

I've used it quite a bit (I liked it before it was the cool thing ). Subjectively, 8mg is perfectly effective for me...I know neuron recommends more, but start low. Stuff is potent

What types of effect have you noticed while supplementing with it?

[DR_P]

Some good posts in here recently.

But damn galantamine is expensive.

I don't know if GAL is still under patent protection but it seems to be substantially more expensive than donepezil (for which the patent has expired and any company can make it). When you look at the systematic reviews and comparative analyses, GAL and DON seem to elicit same levels of effectivity and adverse effects in the treatment of AD, so other than patent issues, there is no reason for any major price difference.

[Elliptical Envy]

Here's the link to my log http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1120949143

I'll update the OP with more information tomorrow morning (when I get home from work).

[DASBUNKER]

If choline citrate and ALCAR at 500mg-1g each was too much for me, to the point of showing signs of ACh. build up (seems i can do either alone.)

Do you think i'll be fine with choline bit./alpha with huperzine A? think i've never done these in the past, probablemo might be with the acetyl and choline... not sure if will experience the same with the AChE inhibiting properties of huper.

[Elliptical Envy]

If choline citrate and ALCAR at 500mg-1g each was too much for me, to the point of showing signs of ACh. build up (seems i can do either alone.)

Do you think i'll be fine with choline bit./alpha with huperzine A? think i've never done these in the past, probablemo might be with the acetyl and choline... not sure if will experience the same with the AChE inhibiting properties of huper.

Do you have problems with either alone?

[DASBUNKER]

Do you have problems with either alone?

Nope.. just with ALCAR + choline in certain amounts.

[MrLL]

Just read the last ~10 pages of this thread.

So is the consensus that phenylpiracetam should be taken ONLY on an as-needed basis? Wouldn't everyday dosing have the same effect as everyday piracetam dosing, just stronger?

I just bought 10g of phenylpira from liftmode (unfortunately it appears to be the impure, tan batch). First day had awesome effects, 2nd had good but lesser effects, then I didn't take it today because I learned of the tolerance issue.

I'm taking it in conjunction with ~2x15mg per day Noopept

[Elliptical Envy]

We should make some beginner and intermediate stacks for reference. I doubt people want to read 40 pages.

[xLGx]

We should make some beginner andintermediate stacks for reference. I doubt people want to read 40 pages.

Start her up.

[aaronuconn]

Also, reference in the OP what post number to head over to for the details on the beginner and intermediate stack.

[eatyourspinach]

Just read the last ~10 pages of this thread.

So is the consensus that phenylpiracetam should be taken ONLY on an as-needed basis? Wouldn't everyday dosing have the same effect as everyday piracetam dosing, just stronger?

I just bought 10g of phenylpira from liftmode (unfortunately it appears to be the impure, tan batch). First day had awesome effects, 2nd had good but lesser effects, then I didn't take it today because I learned of the tolerance issue.

I'm taking it in conjunction with ~2x15mg per day Noopept

There seems to be a tolerance issue with phenylp, piracetam's effects (based on most reports and personal experience) and more cummulative. I haven't tried phenylp so couldn't tell you about any tolerance other than what I have seen. This and there is very little research done on any long term effects it may or may not produce.

[tmd17]

Also, reference in the OP what post number to head over to for the details on the beginner and intermediate stack.

Good idea. I'll PM a mod once we have a post number and have him update the OP.

[Elliptical Envy]

Start her up.

Seems like Focus XT (with or without caffeine) is the recommendation for an all-in-one nootropic products for beginners. Are we recommending that beginners use some sort of choline source + ALCAR as a bulk option?

Should we make a supp stack for students/studying and stress and/or anxiety? I've seen a few posts about people looking for some sort of products to take for stress/anxiety, so it's up to y'all.

[Mr.Cooper69]

I'm writing this on 24 hours no sleep, but briefly:

Beginner:

Focus XT

or

CDP-Choline + ALCAR

Intermediate:

Add Tyrosine
Add racetam

Advanced:

Remove choline, add galantamine
Continue with racetam, add phenylP as needed


Use caffeine as needed

[Elliptical Envy]

I'm writing this on 24 hours no sleep, but briefly:

Beginner:

Focus XT

or

CDP-Choline + ALCAR

Intermediate:

Add Tyrosine
Add racetam

Advanced:

Remove choline, add galantamine
Continue with racetam, add phenylP as needed

Use caffeine as needed

Looks pretty similar to what I came up with for myself. ^5

[hamplition]

Looking to pick up focus xt and bulk alcar to start my first semester of college this year =) when do you guys recommend i take it? I am planning on lifting in the morning and then going straight to class. Would it work out if i take my focus xt and alcar pre workout, then have the nootropics still be working about three hours later? Would using focus xt and alcar every day be safe? May also look into ani maybe a month into my focus xt experience. Any tips?

[Synapsin]

Looking to pick up focus xt and bulk alcar to start my first semester of college this year =) when do you guys recommend i take it? I am planning on lifting in the morning and then going straight to class. Would it work out if i take my focus xt and alcar pre workout, then have the nootropics still be working about three hours later? Would using focus xt and alcar every day be safe? May also look into ani maybe a month into my focus xt experience. Any tips?

I would take it after your workout if you're going to use it for studying/ class, otherwise an hour of its effectiveness is being used for an irrelevant purpose (although its not bad as a preworkout if you have trouble focusing during your workout). You can take it every day but I'd probably cycle off after 3-6 months if you use it continuously.

[eatyourspinach]

I'm writing this on 24 hours no sleep, but briefly:

Beginner:

Focus XT

or

CDP-Choline + ALCAR

Intermediate:

Add Tyrosine
Add racetam

Advanced:

Remove choline, add galantamine
Continue with racetam, add phenylP as needed


Use caffeine as needed

Not a fan of B vitamin derivatives?

[Elliptical Envy]

Not a fan of B vitamin derivatives?

Sulbutiamine seems to be hit or miss with some people, and it seems like Pyritinol is a mixed bag. I'll have to give Sulbut a try in my log soon.

[ISurfNudeBrah]

Sulbutiamine seems to be hit or miss with some people, and it seems like Pyritinol is a mixed bag. I'll have to give Sulbut a try in my log soon.

I found it to be good in smaller doses, the larger doses gave me a bad headache in class.

[Elliptical Envy]

I found it to be good in smaller doses, the larger doses gave me a bad headache in class.

Define smaller and larger doses.

[KBoss302]

There seems to be a tolerance issue with phenylp, piracetam's effects (based on most reports and personal experience) and more cummulative. I haven't tried phenylp so couldn't tell you about any tolerance other than what I have seen. This and there is very little research done on any long term effects it may or may not produce.

Yes, I've noticed that tolerance builds really fast to phenylpiracetam.

First day, wow! Big boost in cognitive performance, physical and mental energy, and motivation.

Second day, effects weren't quite as pronounced, yet still present.

After that, it seems to be hit or miss for me.

So I stick to using Phenylpiracetam only on an "as needed" basis.

[eatyourspinach]

Define smaller and larger doses.

Lowest I have seen is 200mg highest I have seen is 1g, 400-600 has worked well for me but I build a tolerance after about 4-5 days feeling the need for a few off days.

[neuron]

I'm writing this on 24 hours no sleep, but briefly:

I would revise this list a bit. I don't think tyrosine is a nootropic.

Novice:
1. Choline source: Choline citrate, Alpha-GPC, CDP-Choline, Phosphotidylcholine/lecithin
2. Piracetam
3. Caffeine (in moderation)
4. ALCAR

Intermediate:
5. Moderately potent racetams: Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, pramiracetam
6. Sulbutiamine (See next months article)

Advanced:
7. Potent racetams: sunifiram, unifiram, nefiracetam, noopept
8. Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors (Galantamine, Huperzine)

Expert:
9. Stimulants (Phenylpiracetam, et cetra)
10. Glutaminergic modulators: D-Serine, Sarcosine, D-Aspartic acid

Accessory:
a. Fish oil (DHA)
b. Uridine
c. Adaptogens


- Each level usually rolls into the next. For example, a beginner may continue his or her novice stack and incorporate the next level.
- New supplements should be added individually to assess tolerance and effect.
- Talk to your doctor before starting any new supplement medication
- Most of these compounds exhibit an inverse-U dose response curve, i.e. more is not always better
- Advanced and expert levels should be used only by those users with years of nootropic experience, or adequate knowledge of their effects

[neuron]

Remove choline, add galantamine

I don't think it is necessary to stop choline supplementation when on galantamine.

For example, Georgetown University just ran a study with high dosed CDP-Choline & galantamine in human volunteers with very minimal side effects. Once Ach levels become elevated, the extra choline simply gets diverted to other processes. In the case of CDP-Choline/alpha-GPC/Phosphatidylcholine, the diversion would probably benefit membrane structural integrity.

[Elliptical Envy]

I don't think it is necessary to stop choline supplementation when on galantamine.

For example, Georgetown University just ran a study with high dosed CDP-Choline & galantamine in human volunteers with very minimal side effects. Once Ach levels become elevated, the extra choline simply gets diverted to other processes. In the case of CDP-Choline/alpha-GPC/Phosphatidylcholine, the diversion would probably benefit membrane structural integrity.

Link to the study?

Also, thank you for providing your thoughts.

[RichL1982]

Looking to help out my anxiety a bit. I have a couple of things and need some advice. Only looking to target anxiety.

This is what I have:
SP- Aniracetam 60 caps/750mg
SNS- Choline Citrate Powder
SNS- Piracetam Powder
AI Sports- Phenibut 120caps/ 500mg

I heard good things about Phenibut and anxiety but can I mix anything else with it or just keep the Phenibut

[eatyourspinach]

Looking to help out my anxiety a bit. I have a couple of things and need some advice. Only looking to target anxiety.

This is what I have:
SP- Aniracetam 60 caps/750mg
SNS- Choline Citrate Powder
SNS- Piracetam Powder
AI Sports- Phenibut 120caps/ 500mg

I heard good things about Phenibut and anxiety but can I mix anything else with it or just keep the Phenibut

Be careful not to overdo it with Phenibut.